stainer wrote on Aug 29^th, 2010 at 2:14am:



Or maybe you just don't like it that I am not an old vet ass kisser and can challenge your view points on issues.  Again you haven't answered my question.  What does knowing endgame have to do whit knowing a level 6 quest, cheesy tactics and exploits?  It has nothing to do with it right you just bring it up because you want to try and be the alpha dog and you are trying to mark your territory by bringing it up

Nah, I've been in groups that did this, it's an exploit. 

Granted it was last year, before F2P, but then at least if the person with agro jumps up onto the perch, all the gaints would freeze in place and not attack.

The fact that access to that quest was blocked for a few weeks while they took out other pillar top perches makes it pretty obvious that it's not something you should be doing.

stainer wrote on Aug 29^th, 2010 at 2:26am:

Xatasha wrote on Aug 29^th, 2010 at 2:42am:


I hate when mommy and daddy fight.

Back on topic of "Perches in Quests", I have noticed the new Red Fens stuff seems to not have a plethora of places to perch.  I've found a couple inside "Into the Deep", but they're less convenient to use than just running the quest the normal way. 

Legal, illegal, cheese, whatever.  The real issue here is no different than your D&D game around a table at home, but with a lot of time delay. 

You do something your DM doesn't *like*, because he spent all this time making some fancy pants adventure?  He's going to say "oh no you can't do that no way no how" because he's more attached to his prefab story than his social relations, or he's going to man up, shrug it off, and move on, adapting the story while lauding your success in finding a new way to solve the puzzle.

With Turbine, its exactly the same, but with less verbal communication, and more time delay.  We do something long enough that a content Dev doesn't like, even if it doesn't break game rules, D&D rules, whatever, they're likely to change it.  Changing a quest to get rid of an easy button doesn't mean the easy button was inherently illegal; just that someone didn't like it and had the power to change it.

i.e., Turbine would make the Gordian Knot have DR 999/-, Full elemental immunity and SR 1000.  And when they realized we could still drag the Knot to a blade trap, they'd make it immovable.  They want us to solve the knot, not invent a new solution.

So? The game used to have so many broken near safe spots...

i.e. the Ledge in SC, the Ledge in BAM, used to be so many of them could not list these all... Hey remember firewalls and ck thru gates and closed doors?

How about the when Reaver's Fate first came out and people were soloing it from the pillar.You could cast at him, he'd cast and range back at you while you just fire wall the hell out of the elementals and him...

SoS anyone remember that one...

Mindsunder's fireplace

What about the ledge used to be in Eye of the titan.

One interesting take on this all is Turbine always said the use of "Terain" in your strategy is ok.

I used to get into arguments 'bout what was cheese vs what is not... i.e. Trial by fire ... was popular when it first came out to have the melee stand blocking the door ... the caster firewall and hide behind the corner - with the agro. the mob would just stand there throwing things... I told people it's no different then using a safe spot - fact is you're creating a "safe spot." It's just as cheesy... Today's mob swing every so often at the blockers but really for the amount of damage vs resource - is a pitance. Still cheesy tactic no matter how much you defend it.

Turbines view however is that they wish you to play the quest their way... utilizing safe spots reduces resources (means less running to replenish perishables), by-passing mob and streamlining reduces your time also - it is not in their eyes any good for business... so they like to eliminate safe spots, they like to eliminate ways to jump past certain parts of quests in order to prolong game time.

Prolong game time, why? Quite simple you beat the content so quickly and run it 10 times a night instead of 5 and you're bored and asking them - "WHEN YOU GOING TO RELEASE MORE CONTENT?"

Content cost money in developement... milking the current content does not ... is simply just operational costs. Thus the bottom line $ is at peak having the customer replay longer.

Montrose wrote on Sep 1^st, 2010 at 5:56pm:


Exactly.  I normally read pointless bitchfests like that because it's entertaining.  But occasionally, when someone or a bunch of people are blatantly ignoring an elephant in the room like bit of logic or common sense, I feel compelled to post.

What got to me in that one was when in spite of people telling how the giants still attack and in spite of how the close down to remove ledges intentionally left that very obvious one in it, people trying to jam the square peg through the circular hole and force a "cheese tactic" to wear the "exploit" label had the gaul to quote from the Kobold's old thread as though to defend.

The very quotes that were used had all the parts about "unresponsive" and even a specific example stating plain as day that "perching" is NOT an exploit (from an actual Turbine direct source mind you, but that never deters a fuckwit from continuing to bang that square peg into the circular hole).

Yeah the logic fail was high in that one.  What you said is just as obvious a way of saying what Kobold said in the list of things that are not considered exploits.  I even felt it worth pointing out how he said the following things aren't violations of the rules but are cheesy and may or may not be removed in the future.  But people kept bringing up they're removing other perch ledges as proof that that is an exploit.

They reserve the right to take away any NON exploit legit tactic they want for any reason they damn well please.  Look what happened to two weapon fighting.  How about the fucking gutting of the core D&D principal of AC itself with the WOW clone like "glancing blows"?  They removed changed these things, so by that logic, shouldn't anybody who built a two weapon fighter or AC character that hardly got hit be banned immediately, as they're changing it proves it must be an exploit?

Sorry about the wordy post, but people that act like they're being sensible while being stupid really piss me off.