Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 35 Replies) Ink’s Guide to Guild Management (Read 17326 times)
Inkblack
Puppy Farmer
Vault WDA
****
Offline


_,|,,

Posts: 1553
Joined: Sep 10th, 2009
Gender: Male
Ink’s Guide to Guild Management
Aug 31st, 2010 at 5:12pm
Print Post  
Purpose

This guide aims to establish the tasks that contribute to a successful guild.  The intent is to provide a framework for officers and members to reflect on how these tasks are performed within their own guild.  Discussion on best practices from various guilds across the server is welcome.


Tasks of a Successful Guild
     -      Recruitment
     -      Integration
     -      Activities
     -      Member Development
     -      Discipline


Recruitment

Recruitment is getting new members to join your guild.  It is the lifeblood of a guild.  Most guilds naturally expand and contract.  As players leave for other games, stop playing, or leave the guild in other ways, it is important to replenish the guild ranks.  Without recruitment, the guild will decay.

Actual recruitment is more difficult that it first appears.  Guilds need a way to reach prospective members, and a way to separate themselves from other guilds.  MyDDO seeks to fill this niche, but I’ve never heard of anyone getting a referral from MyDDO.  The forum has server threads that attempt to fill this niche, but it is difficult to maintain your message among a sea of other guilds seeking to do the same thing.

The most effective recruiting tool is your guild’s reputation.  If your guild has established itself on the server, and its members are known and looked up to, then it becomes easier to recruit.  Members will seek you out, instead of the other way around.  Unfortunately, there are typically only 10-20 guilds out of the thousands on the server that can recruit based solely on reputation.

Running mostly guild runs with a few spots open for a pug is a good way to find new members.  If you find someone that meshes with the group, add them to your friends list.  The next time a spot is open, see if they would like to join.  This is essentially building your guild reputation at an individual level.  It works.

There are some ways to recruit that will get your guild ridiculed.  Using the LFM boards, spamming general chat, and blind invites are generally considered poor behavior.


Integration

Integration is getting new recruits to become involved.  It’s taking the newbie and turning them into a contributing member.  It’s also one of the easiest things to ignore.

When new members join, hang around for a little while, then leave; that is a sign that your guild needs to do a better job of integration.  It can be especially difficult for new members to break into a small, tight-knit guild.  Integration is more than just saying, “Hi!” in guild chat, the new member must be included in guild activities.

One method of integrating a new member is to have an officer with similar level character become a mentor.  The officer creates groups, and makes sure the new player is included.  The new player is introduced to others, and learns about the guild. 

A better method is to have all guild members make an effort to integrate new members.  The necessity of integration would be clearly explained, to the point that members have bought into the process.

The most common mistake is just to ignore new members.  Everyone is pleasant enough, but questions about what is going on are turned away – “We’re running _____, sorry we’re full.  Maybe next time.”  The next time gets forgotten, and the new member is pugging just as they were before.  The new member eventually feels like an outsider in their own guild, and they leave.


Activities

Activities come naturally to a healthy guild.  They do not have to be formal, it is just a matter of deciding to do something as a guild and doing it.  Some guilds are extremely formal posting daily events with sign-ups.  Others just log on and figure it out.  Whatever works for your guilds members is the best – don’t try to force something on the guild just because you like it.

If the activities are not coming naturally, then there is some kind of issue going on.  This could be anything, but this is likely the first sign that something needs to be corrected.  When members are logging on but not joining guild runs, when members just don’t log on, these are signs that something is wrong.  Figure it out and address it, quickly.

Here are a few possible guild activites:  raids, favor runs, static groups (dangerous due to forming cliques imo), loot farming, experience farming, roleplaying, perma death, figuring out a new quest, giving away extra equipment, swap meet, naked Tempest Spine, etc.  The possibilities are endless.

The worst activities are the ones that your guild isn’t interested in.  If it bombs, don’t try to make the guild enjoy it anyway.


Member Development (SFW)

In any guild, there is always something someone needs to learn to do, or some item that needs to be attained, some build that needs to be explored.  There should always be some incentive to join the guild.

Perhaps the biggest issue is to make sure that your players are getting good advice.  Maybe one player has the skill to make their bad build work, but when the whole guild starts making a copy of the Halfling barbarian thrower build, it can lead to disaster.  Your reputation as a guild can get creamed by just a few idiots.  A bad guild reputation is devastating.


Discipline

The purpose of discipline is to build your guild’s reputation.  At some point, there will be arguments between guild members.  There will be arguments between your guild members and others.  You will get complaints, and you will have to handle the complaints.

The first thing to remember with a complaint is that it needs to be fairly specific.  Ink is acting like a dickwad is not a valid complaint.  Get the person to explain the situation and what was said or done in as clear language as possible.  Write it down.

When investigating a complaint, you can either ask others that were present or the person targeted with the complaint.  I recommend asking any others first, but that’s my personal preference.  Do what works for you.

When confronting the guild member, the most important thing to remember is that this is a guild member.  Don’t accuse.  Ink, I heard you were a dickwad last night doesn’t work – it just puts the person on the defensive.  Instead, concentrate on actions.  It was reported that you did this and said this.

Be understanding.  Get both sides of the story, and realize that the truth is probably somewhere in between.

If your guild member acted incorrectly, try to make sure it won’t happen again.  Enforce an appropriate penalty.  You don’t have to decide what it is immediately, but it should be implemented quickly.  Contact other officers or guild members for advice if you don’t know what an appropriate penalty is.  The important thing is that the rest of your guild should think it is fair.  Not the guild member that the complaint was directed against, not the person that did the complaining; the rest of the guild should generally agree with the decision. 

If enforcement doesn’t match the guild membership’s expectation, perhaps the expectations of behavior do not match.  Every guild will have some expectations of what is and is not acceptable behavior.  It is ok to adjust this, but realize that it will affect the guild membership.  Drastic changes are generally bad unless called for by extraordinarily bad behavior.

Examples of poor discipline include uneven enforcement (the punishment should be the same no matter who did the deed), selective enforcement (the rules apply to everyone), and no enforcement (if its anarchy, your guild reputation will suffer).

The most common mistake in discipline is tolerating a bad guildie.  Once it is apparent that they are bad, cut them lose.  Some people just cannot do this.  If it helps, find an officer to act as a hatchet man.


Conclusion

A good guild is not something that just happens.  It is something that is shaped over the course of years.  If the guild leaders think about how their guild handles recruitment, integration, activities, member development, and discipline they can become a better guild.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Inkblack
Puppy Farmer
Vault WDA
****
Offline


_,|,,

Posts: 1553
Joined: Sep 10th, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: Ink’s Guide to Guild Management
Reply #1 - Aug 31st, 2010 at 5:12pm
Print Post  
Alright, there's a serious game guide.  Flame away!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gornn
Horoluth Raider
****
Offline


Cracker Fiend

Posts: 2241
Joined: Jun 26th, 2009
Re: Ink’s Guide to Guild Management
Reply #2 - Aug 31st, 2010 at 5:13pm
Print Post  
Inkblack wrote on Aug 31st, 2010 at 5:12pm:
Alright, there's a serious game guide.  Flame away!


Dude serious has no place on the vault.

I politely disagree w/ ur Face. GFY
  

This is a throw down...a show down...
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Inkblack
Puppy Farmer
Vault WDA
****
Offline


_,|,,

Posts: 1553
Joined: Sep 10th, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: Ink’s Guide to Guild Management
Reply #3 - Aug 31st, 2010 at 5:18pm
Print Post  
Gornn wrote on Aug 31st, 2010 at 5:13pm:
Dude serious has no place on the vault.

I politely disagree w/ ur Face. GFY

Is GFY the new Hi Welcome?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fuck Off
The Big Fuck
*
Offline


My favorite word is Fuck.
Fuck, fuck, fuck.

Posts: 1284
Location: Fuckville
Joined: Aug 29th, 2010
Re: Ink’s Guide to Guild Management
Reply #4 - Aug 31st, 2010 at 5:24pm
Print Post  
Quit trying to tell me how to do things.

Fuck off.
  

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.  - Albert Einstein
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jules
Korthos Resident
*
Offline



Posts: 17
Location: Florida
Joined: Aug 29th, 2010
Gender: Female
Re: Ink’s Guide to Guild Management
Reply #5 - Aug 31st, 2010 at 5:53pm
Print Post  
Inkblack wrote on Aug 31st, 2010 at 5:12pm:
[u][b][size=12]

... snippage...


Well I like it
  

Member of Giant Slayers, Inc on Thelanis
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Arkat
Chonus Christ
********
Offline


Hola Bienvenido

Posts: 12345
Location: Wyoming
Joined: Jul 13th, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: Ink’s Guide to Guild Management
Reply #6 - Aug 31st, 2010 at 6:16pm
Print Post  
Inkblack wrote on Aug 31st, 2010 at 5:12pm:
Alright, there's a serious game guide.  Flame away!



Ok.

Smiley

Seriously though, it looks like a nice guide with some solid advice.
« Last Edit: Aug 31st, 2010 at 6:17pm by Arkat »  

Stand on hills of long-forgotten yesterdays...

Looking for a sign that the Universal Mind has written you into the Passion Play.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kitsune_ko
Titan Demolisher
****
Offline


Halfling Pali-Rogues FTW!

Posts: 380
Joined: Aug 29th, 2010
Re: Ink’s Guide to Guild Management
Reply #7 - Aug 31st, 2010 at 8:33pm
Print Post  

Good advice, more then a few guild leaders in DDO that could do with a guide to help them out.


Kit
  

"Shiny stuff comes and goes; XP is forever."

2008-10-15: Full frontal Nerdity
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MalakRevan
Waterworks Kobold
**
Offline


Pissing People off since
1980.

Posts: 108
Location: Lurking in the Underverse
Joined: Jun 8th, 2010
Gender: Male
Re: Ink’s Guide to Guild Management
Reply #8 - Sep 1st, 2010 at 8:19am
Print Post  
No no no, you got the whole recruitment thing wrong.  You have to go stand in Korthos like KoC and Epitaph and recruit from the newbies, this is the only way to get quality players for your guild.  Just ask Bigs, he'll tell you.
  

Falutin
SenorHezrou
PsionicFal
Rexzar
Leader of Foecleaver.
Yes I am a Vault Lurker and I rarely post.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
aurora1979
Waterworks Kobold
**
Offline


A Toppie a day keeps the
frownies away

Posts: 152
Joined: Aug 30th, 2010
Gender: Male
Re: Ink’s Guide to Guild Management
Reply #9 - Sep 1st, 2010 at 8:38am
Print Post  
"The next time gets forgotten, and the new member is pugging just as they were before.  The new member eventually feels like an outsider in their own guild, and they leave"


This is exactly what happened to me. twice.... with the same guild.... Im a big one for loyality and building the colony so to speak... so i came back for another go. lol. MUG!

Now i mostly solo, I group for raids except DQ and reavers.

I think its a good guide. Ive thought about starting my own guild but..... i dont think its gonna happen. To those that want to try.... some great advice here, particularly the intergration. I think alot of people forget about that once the recruitments done with.
« Last Edit: Sep 1st, 2010 at 8:38am by aurora1979 »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gornn
Horoluth Raider
****
Offline


Cracker Fiend

Posts: 2241
Joined: Jun 26th, 2009
Re: Ink’s Guide to Guild Management
Reply #10 - Sep 1st, 2010 at 9:38am
Print Post  
Given Haizi's explosion in the other thread, I wonder how she'd feel about getting linked to this thread?

LETS FIND OUT.
  

This is a throw down...a show down...
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Hi Welcome
King of Trolls
*
Offline


Drama chips... now in
Argonnessen Apple flavor!

Posts: 2759
Joined: Aug 14th, 2010
Gender: Male
Re: Ink’s Guide to Guild Management
Reply #11 - Sep 1st, 2010 at 11:48am
Print Post  
Gornn wrote on Sep 1st, 2010 at 9:38am:
Given Haizi's explosion in the other thread, I wonder how she'd feel about getting linked to this thread?

LETS FIND OUT.


Mmm, drama chips.
  

                           

Epoch wrote on Mar 14th, 2012 at 5:15am:
When people bring in their personal lives, it is all fair game.  This board promotes trolling.  If you bring something up, expect it to be used against you at a later date if not immediately.  You want to bring up personal shit, well, that is your problem.


Eladiun wrote on May 15th, 2012 at 1:46pm:
If one fails to understand the nuances of elite level trolling they would falsely interpret posts meant to fan the flames as support.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Epoch
Alaskan Ice Hole
*
Offline


Epochalypse

Posts: 10377
Location: Frozen Tundra
Joined: Aug 29th, 2010
Gender: Male
Re: Ink’s Guide to Guild Management
Reply #12 - Sep 1st, 2010 at 12:15pm
Print Post  
Wow, apparently noone learns anything in DDO.

The proper way to build a guild is pretty simple:

1.  Randomly invite noobs on a level 20 character.

2.  Make them all officers and teach them how to recruit the morons they are standing next to.

3.  Only log in once a day to invite people, promote all the noobs, update motd to something about how the awesome the guild has grown and the guild level and whatever motivational bullshit you can pull out your ass.

4.  Once guild has reached desired level, boot all the trash and invite your friends/peeps you want in the guild.


This can actually be a race.  Have the base guild founders all start the guild with the name they want.  Whichever guild reaches the highest level in 2weeks ~ 1 month is the guild leader and the other founders must disband their guilds and join his.  This is important, they losers must destroy all remnants of their guilds.  Not only is the name decided by pure superiority, but the chaos that will ensue can only be greater by having more friends in on it.
« Last Edit: Sep 1st, 2010 at 12:17pm by Epoch »  

OnePercenter wrote on May 15th, 2014 at 9:41am:
I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.  #epochsfamiliarFTW

Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 2:09am:
It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity.
Even against donuts.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Shaamis
Waterworks Kobold
**
Offline


Give...me....the....
damn....BOTTLE!!

Posts: 137
Location: Akron, OH
Joined: Jul 1st, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: Ink’s Guide to Guild Management
Reply #13 - Sep 1st, 2010 at 4:58pm
Print Post  
This is a great guide, and I agree with 99% of it, and only 99% because i didnt read every word.

Honestly, a lot of it is simple common sense, treat others as you would like to be treated, and do not make assumptions. I especially agree with the resolving disputes in and out of the guild.

When I was GL, i had a few issus in and out of guild, where people were wronged or felt they were wronged. I followed my personal guidelines almost exactly as Ink replicated here, and the resolution came back to strengthen all members trust in each other, as well as the guilds involved.

Amazingly enough, almost all of the issues I dealt with, revolved around raid loot.

The DOA follows these tenets, unfortunately, when the guild leader is not given the base respect due to a normal player in an MMO, for one reason or another, it makes it difficult to surmount those stacked up odds.

Haizi is learning faster than I did, how to resolve conflicts and be a better leader. I am advising her when she asks, but frankly, she doesnt need to much anymore.

I think Haizi and Babygirl need to get together and compare notes Tongue

That would be cool, and pretty sexy too. Tongue Cheesy
  

Shaamis "Kegtapper" Bloodfist
Drunken-style Master
Brewmaster--Dragon Order of Arcanix
Back to top
WWWGTalkFacebookYIM  
IP Logged
 
Antir
Shroud Slacker
***
Offline


Hi Welcome

Posts: 1297
Joined: Jul 1st, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: Ink’s Guide to Guild Management
Reply #14 - Sep 1st, 2010 at 10:49pm
Print Post  
Shaamis wrote on Sep 1st, 2010 at 4:58pm:
I think Haizi and Babygirl need to get together and compare notes Tongue

That would be cool, and pretty sexy too. Tongue Cheesy

Because in both cases a weakass male abdicated responsibility for the guild and left it to an immature fake colour-headed woman to take over?
« Last Edit: Sep 1st, 2010 at 10:50pm by Antir »  

"I'll provide the perspective"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Epoch
Alaskan Ice Hole
*
Offline


Epochalypse

Posts: 10377
Location: Frozen Tundra
Joined: Aug 29th, 2010
Gender: Male
Re: Ink’s Guide to Guild Management
Reply #15 - Sep 1st, 2010 at 11:11pm
Print Post  
Antir wrote on Sep 1st, 2010 at 10:49pm:
Because in both cases a weakass male abdicated responsibility for the guild and left it to an immature fake colour-headed woman to take over?

Smiley Smiley Smiley
  

OnePercenter wrote on May 15th, 2014 at 9:41am:
I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.  #epochsfamiliarFTW

Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 2:09am:
It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity.
Even against donuts.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Hi Welcome
King of Trolls
*
Offline


Drama chips... now in
Argonnessen Apple flavor!

Posts: 2759
Joined: Aug 14th, 2010
Gender: Male
Re: Ink’s Guide to Guild Management
Reply #16 - Sep 2nd, 2010 at 7:45am
Print Post  
Epoch wrote on Sep 1st, 2010 at 11:11pm:
Smiley Smiley Smiley


This.
  

                           

Epoch wrote on Mar 14th, 2012 at 5:15am:
When people bring in their personal lives, it is all fair game.  This board promotes trolling.  If you bring something up, expect it to be used against you at a later date if not immediately.  You want to bring up personal shit, well, that is your problem.


Eladiun wrote on May 15th, 2012 at 1:46pm:
If one fails to understand the nuances of elite level trolling they would falsely interpret posts meant to fan the flames as support.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Hordo
High Rabbi
****
Offline


Le Douchebag

Posts: 2405
Location: Cordova, Tennessee
Joined: Jun 30th, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: Ink’s Guide to Guild Management
Reply #17 - Sep 2nd, 2010 at 9:39am
Print Post  
Nice guide Ink!

Now, because this is the vault and NOT the DDO Forums...


Fuck you and your guide...just a little Khyber in the morning makes the day go by fucking hunky dory!
  

I am the Rabbi, goo goo g'Jew!
Who doesn't <3 Gornn?
GORNN II 4:3:17 - For Gornn sent not Hordo into the world to save the party; but that the party through him might be wiped.
[QUOTE=404error;4155294]Hordo I don't want to steal you from these forums because your almost an icon here. ;p [/quote]
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Gornn
Horoluth Raider
****
Offline


Cracker Fiend

Posts: 2241
Joined: Jun 26th, 2009
Re: Ink’s Guide to Guild Management
Reply #18 - Sep 2nd, 2010 at 11:31am
Print Post  
Hordo wrote on Sep 2nd, 2010 at 9:39am:
Nice guide Ink!

Now, because this is the vault and NOT the DDO Forums...


Fuck you and your guide...just a little Khyber in the morning makes the day go by fucking hunky dory!


GFY to all, and to all a GF!
  

This is a throw down...a show down...
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Shaamis
Waterworks Kobold
**
Offline


Give...me....the....
damn....BOTTLE!!

Posts: 137
Location: Akron, OH
Joined: Jul 1st, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: Ink’s Guide to Guild Management
Reply #19 - Sep 3rd, 2010 at 12:21pm
Print Post  
Antir wrote on Sep 1st, 2010 at 10:49pm:
Because in both cases a weakass male abdicated responsibility for the guild and left it to an immature fake colour-headed woman to take over?


LOL GFY Cheesy

I give a rats ass what you think of me, I'll keep playing and having fun. Your opinion means nothing to me, but i did get a good laugh.

Seriously, GFY
  

Shaamis "Kegtapper" Bloodfist
Drunken-style Master
Brewmaster--Dragon Order of Arcanix
Back to top
WWWGTalkFacebookYIM  
IP Logged
 
PlaidPooka
DQ Assaulter
*****
Offline


Fuckity-fuck-fuck

Posts: 471
Location: Ghallanda
Joined: Aug 14th, 2010
Gender: Female
Re: Ink’s Guide to Guild Management
Reply #20 - Sep 5th, 2010 at 3:42am
Print Post  
Like the guide, Ink.  Well thought out, well written, and concise.
As the author of such a well done piece, you should GFY.
  

Tarrant can suck my boobies.  On second thought, they are far too soft and supple for the likes of him.  Tarrant, you can GFY while having hopeless pathetic dreams of my boobies.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gornn
Horoluth Raider
****
Offline


Cracker Fiend

Posts: 2241
Joined: Jun 26th, 2009
Re: Ink’s Guide to Guild Management
Reply #21 - Sep 5th, 2010 at 10:02am
Print Post  
PlaidPooka wrote on Sep 5th, 2010 at 3:42am:
Like the guide, Ink.  Well thought out, well written, and concise.
As the author of such a well done piece, you should GFY.


Yes.
  

This is a throw down...a show down...
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Emili
Shroud Slacker
***
Offline



Posts: 1241
Location: here
Joined: Jun 30th, 2009
Re: Ink’s Guide to Guild Management
Reply #22 - Sep 8th, 2010 at 7:13am
Print Post  
Antir wrote on Sep 1st, 2010 at 10:49pm:
Because in both cases a weakass male abdicated responsibility for the guild and left it to an immature fake colour-headed woman to take over?


Lmao, Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley

I often wondered how I got stuck in such position for over four and a half years. Do remember at the time was the only one left of the group who had played every quest at the time and the guys were really just learning how not to die. Wink

Anyways, I always felt they slapped that little tiara on me to keep their rantings and egos in check with one another. Over the years been a bear attempting to remain unbias'd, understanding, responsible and accountable. Organizing the motley lot is akin to arrangement the needles in a pin cushion... you get pricked enough you set it down for a while and come back to it later enough fluff int the cushion the needles still there.

« Last Edit: Sep 8th, 2010 at 7:18am by Emili »  

|IMaj7   |vm7 I9 |IV6   |ivm7 bVII9 | IMaj7 vim7 | iim7 V13 |III7+  VI9 | iim9  V13 |IMaj7   |vm7 I9 |IV6   |ivm7 bVII9 |IMaj7 vim7 |iim7 V13 |I6  ivm7  bVII9 |I69   |


Bonheur dans la vie, c'est d'aimer et d'etre aimé et quand s'en va, l'espoir fuit.

Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Antir
Shroud Slacker
***
Offline


Hi Welcome

Posts: 1297
Joined: Jul 1st, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: Ink’s Guide to Guild Management
Reply #23 - Sep 8th, 2010 at 9:16am
Print Post  
Emili wrote on Sep 8th, 2010 at 7:13am:

Lmao, Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley

I often wondered how I got stuck in such position for over four and a half years. Do remember at the time was the only one left of the group who had played every quest at the time and the guys were really just learning how not to die. Wink

Anyways, I always felt they slapped that little tiara on me to keep their rantings and egos in check with one another. Over the years been a bear attempting to remain unbias'd, understanding, responsible and accountable. Organizing the motley lot is akin to arrangement the needles in a pin cushion... you get pricked enough you set it down for a while and come back to it later enough fluff int the cushion the needles still there.


Stainer's Greenis turned into a needle?
« Last Edit: Sep 8th, 2010 at 9:17am by Antir »  

"I'll provide the perspective"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Arkat
Chonus Christ
********
Offline


Hola Bienvenido

Posts: 12345
Location: Wyoming
Joined: Jul 13th, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: Ink’s Guide to Guild Management
Reply #24 - Sep 8th, 2010 at 9:57am
Print Post  
Antir wrote on Sep 8th, 2010 at 9:16am:
Stainer's Greenis turned into a needle?


Probably more like a pin.
  

Stand on hills of long-forgotten yesterdays...

Looking for a sign that the Universal Mind has written you into the Passion Play.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint