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Pallai
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Build abomination discussion time!
Jan 31st, 2011 at 3:47pm
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I know it's generally accepted that caster/caster multis are not a good idea, but I'm wondering about this one.  Not sure if I'm interested in rolling it just yet, but I'm interested in a discussion.

For a deeply splashed melee Clerics, I've seen 6 Fighter, 6 Ranger, and 6 Monk.... why not 7 Bard?

The hypothesis is that you'd gain DPS from DMII, Inspired Damage II, and possibly Rage if you splashed 1 level Barb.

Now, I'm good from the Cleric aspect of things- I know what 12 levels of Cleric gives me and what I'd be sacrificing.

Questions are:

How many Rages does 1 level Barb give you, and what's the duration?

Better to take 1 level Fighter for feat/haste boost?

You'd get Haste, Rage, Displacement and Blur, but how long would they last extended with 7 levels Bard?  I can't remember from when I was levelling my Bard.

Is something like this even viable?  I'm posting a sample build I played around with below to have a template for the conversation.
  

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Pallai
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Re: Build abomination discussion time!
Reply #1 - Jan 31st, 2011 at 3:49pm
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Ignore feat progression- just plugged them in where I could.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page 

Level 20 True Neutral Half-Orc Male
(1 Barbarian / 12 Cleric / 7 Bard)
Hit Points: 302
Spell Points: 910

BAB: 15/15/20/2525
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 8
Will: 14

              Starting    Feat/Enhancement
Abilities    Base Stats    Modified Stats
(34 Point)    (Level 1)      (Level 20)
Strength           18                27
Dexterity           8                 8
Constitution       16                18
Intelligence       10                12
Wisdom             10                12
Charisma           13                18

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 19

              Starting      Feat/Enhancement
             Base Skills  Modified Skills
Skills       (Level 1)      (Level 20)
Balance            3              12.5
Bluff              1              4
Concentration      7              27
Diplomacy          1              5
Disable Device     n/a            n/a
Haggle             1              4
Heal               0              3
Hide               -1             -1
Intimidate         1              4
Jump               8              14
Listen             0              1
Move Silently      -1             -1
Open Lock          n/a            n/a
Perform            5              28
Repair             0              1
Search             0              1
Spot               0              1
Swim               4              8
Tumble             3              5
Use Magic Device   5              18

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric

Level 2 (Bard)

Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell

Level 4 (Cleric)

Level 5 (Cleric)

Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell

Level 7 (Cleric)

Level 8 (Bard)

Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 10 (Bard)

Level 11 (Bard)

Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 13 (Cleric)

Level 14 (Cleric)

Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 16 (Cleric)

Level 17 (Cleric)

Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell

Level 19 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement:: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I

Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
  

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Pallai
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Re: Build abomination discussion time!
Reply #2 - Jan 31st, 2011 at 3:56pm
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Alternatively-

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page 

Level 20 True Neutral Half-Orc Male
(1 Fighter / 12 Cleric / 7 Bard)
Hit Points: 310
Spell Points: 880

BAB: 15/15/20/2525
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 8
Will: 14

              Starting    Feat/Enhancement
Abilities    Base Stats    Modified Stats
(34 Point)    (Level 1)      (Level 20)
Strength           18                27
Dexterity           8                 8
Constitution       16                18
Intelligence       10                12
Wisdom             10                12
Charisma           13                18

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric

Level 2 (Bard)

Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell

Level 4 (Cleric)

Level 5 (Cleric)

Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell

Level 7 (Cleric)

Level 8 (Bard)

Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 10 (Bard)

Level 11 (Bard)

Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 13 (Cleric)

Level 14 (Cleric)

Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 16 (Cleric)

Level 17 (Cleric)

Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell

Level 19 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might II
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning III
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I

  

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Re: Build abomination discussion time!
Reply #3 - Jan 31st, 2011 at 3:59pm
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Wizard 1/Divine Minion 1/Master of Many Forms 3
  

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Re: Build abomination discussion time!
Reply #4 - Jan 31st, 2011 at 3:59pm
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Insert generic math nerd response with DPS output numbers here
  

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Re: Build abomination discussion time!
Reply #5 - Jan 31st, 2011 at 4:19pm
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Alekx wrote on Jan 31st, 2011 at 3:59pm:
Insert generic math nerd response with DPS output numbers here


Insert spreadsheet link

Insert retort riddled with spelling errors and 1337 speak
  
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Re: Build abomination discussion time!
Reply #6 - Jan 31st, 2011 at 4:34pm
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Quote:
Insert spreadsheet link

Insert retort riddled with spelling errors and 1337 speak



well played bro

lol.
  

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Re: Build abomination discussion time!
Reply #7 - Jan 31st, 2011 at 4:40pm
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Looks nifty. Don't know how it would play out at endgame, but seems like it should be easy-breezy to level.

My one question is why go with the 1 level of Barb? Seems like the rages would only be helpful in a small number of situations, and Bard 8 gives you the next increase in Inspire Courage and Inspired Attack II, for a total Inspire Courage of +5 attack/+6 damage. Not too shabby. That would also seem to trump the benefits of Fighter 1, although you would lose 14 HP from dropping the 1 Martial class splash and have to cast Master's Touch.

Edit: Actually, just noticed that Fighter 1 gives you the feat you'd need for Warchanter I. I'd definitely go that way over Bard 8 and Barb 1.
« Last Edit: Jan 31st, 2011 at 4:51pm by Vissarion »  

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Re: Build abomination discussion time!
Reply #8 - Jan 31st, 2011 at 5:35pm
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Alekx wrote on Jan 31st, 2011 at 4:34pm:
well played bro

lol.


Indeed. We should banter more often.

No Homo
  
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Re: Build abomination discussion time!
Reply #9 - Jan 31st, 2011 at 9:32pm
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Can't cast while raged. Wouldn't go barb.
  
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Pallai
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Re: Build abomination discussion time!
Reply #10 - Feb 1st, 2011 at 4:44am
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Milton wrote on Jan 31st, 2011 at 9:32pm:
Can't cast while raged. Wouldn't go barb.


Dismiss rage.  Not meant to be on all the time.
  

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Re: Build abomination discussion time!
Reply #11 - Feb 1st, 2011 at 9:31pm
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Here is a good source for flexible builds.... Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

http://www.ddovault.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1294070687
  
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Pallai
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Re: Build abomination discussion time!
Reply #12 - Feb 2nd, 2011 at 6:28pm
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Is it that nobody wants to be the one to tell me it sucks, or what?  Jesus, peeps- I can take the hit, just be honest.

I'm actually posting it expecting it to be ripped apart.

  

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Re: Build abomination discussion time!
Reply #13 - Feb 2nd, 2011 at 8:18pm
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Pallai wrote on Feb 2nd, 2011 at 6:28pm:
Is it that nobody wants to be the one to tell me it sucks, or what?  Jesus, peeps- I can take the hit, just be honest.

I'm actually posting it expecting it to be ripped apart.



As far as I can see, it's biggest weakness is that more focused builds will perform better than it in raid groups. Bards will have better songs, other divines will be better healers, other melees will provide better DPS.

That being said, as a TR it should perform very well, because gear can help address the shortcomings that may be difficult to overcome during the first life. In addition, it seems like this build would be ideal for 6-man groups, since it can heal, buff, and contribute to DPS in a more flexible way than other more conventional builds.
  

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Re: Build abomination discussion time!
Reply #14 - Feb 2nd, 2011 at 10:57pm
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My eyes have been opened up recently to the powers of a deep multiclassed build. 

You could have a truly special build with the Warchanter/Radiant servant 2 combo... 

Roll this toon up and achieve greatness!!!  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
« Last Edit: Feb 2nd, 2011 at 10:58pm by Almostelvis »  
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Re: Build abomination discussion time!
Reply #15 - Feb 3rd, 2011 at 4:00am
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Pallai wrote on Feb 2nd, 2011 at 6:28pm:
Is it that nobody wants to be the one to tell me it sucks, or what?  Jesus, peeps- I can take the hit, just be honest.

I'm actually posting it expecting it to be ripped apart.



Honest?  I can be that.

I think the idea behind it is stupid.  A pure 20 bard can dps, heal, sing, umd, AND is more effective in a solo, group, or raid setting.

I won't tell you clerical wise, you already know that.

In the end, I think it is a lot like the 12 wizard/8 monk build.  It sounds nice, but lets face facts here.  A 11wis/9monk would out dps it, and for raids that is all most people care about.  Dems the facts.

Now, since I know you that you already have other toons that are geared out for raiding and epics, why not have a little fun?  Shit, we all have had our abomination builds that we adored while waiting for new content.  Shit, I used to  have over 30 characters at one point in time all raiding - none of them were built the same.  It is healthy for your gaming experience, brings back some of the fun in the game.




  

OnePercenter wrote on May 15th, 2014 at 9:41am:
I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.  #epochsfamiliarFTW

Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 2:09am:
It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity.
Even against donuts.
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Pallai
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Re: Build abomination discussion time!
Reply #16 - Feb 3rd, 2011 at 5:39am
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Epoch wrote on Feb 3rd, 2011 at 4:00am:
Honest?  I can be that.

I think the idea behind it is stupid.  A pure 20 bard can dps, heal, sing, umd, AND is more effective in a solo, group, or raid setting.

I won't tell you clerical wise, you already know that.

In the end, I think it is a lot like the 12 wizard/8 monk build.  It sounds nice, but lets face facts here.  A 11wis/9monk would out dps it, and for raids that is all most people care about.  Dems the facts.

Now, since I know you that you already have other toons that are geared out for raiding and epics, why not have a little fun?  Shit, we all have had our abomination builds that we adored while waiting for new content.  Shit, I used to  have over 30 characters at one point in time all raiding - none of them were built the same.  It is healthy for your gaming experience, brings back some of the fun in the game.






See, that's the input I was looking for.  I appreciate the honesty and explanation of why you think it sucks.

Like you said however, it is fun to push the envelope and see what you can do with unconventional/novelty builds.

Not something I'm completely interested in levelling, but just some ideas I was playing around with and wanted some input.
  

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Re: Build abomination discussion time!
Reply #17 - Feb 3rd, 2011 at 5:50am
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Splash 20 levels of monk.  Now THAT is a crazy build.
  

OnePercenter wrote on May 15th, 2014 at 9:41am:
I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.  #epochsfamiliarFTW

Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 2:09am:
It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity.
Even against donuts.
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Re: Build abomination discussion time!
Reply #18 - Feb 3rd, 2011 at 11:09am
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Epoch wrote on Feb 3rd, 2011 at 5:50am:
Splash 20 levels of monk.  Now THAT is a crazy build.


Cheesy
  

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Re: Build abomination discussion time!
Reply #19 - Feb 9th, 2011 at 1:41am
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Epoch wrote on Feb 3rd, 2011 at 5:50am:
Splash 20 levels of monk.  Now THAT is a crazy build.


hmmm. that and a monkey.
  

Alekx wrote on Jun 15th, 2011 at 11:46pm:
Fuck you and your political correctness. Eat a big fat conservative homo cock while you gaze at pony pictures with a hose up your ass.
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Re: Build abomination discussion time!
Reply #20 - Feb 11th, 2011 at 2:56pm
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Pallai wrote on Feb 3rd, 2011 at 5:39am:
See, that's the input I was looking for.  I appreciate the honesty and explanation of why you think it sucks.

Like you said however, it is fun to push the envelope and see what you can do with unconventional/novelty builds.

Not something I'm completely interested in levelling, but just some ideas I was playing around with and wanted some input.


Don;t get used to it...enjoy it but don't get used to it
  

Come on folks its easy
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Re: Build abomination discussion time!
Reply #21 - Feb 16th, 2011 at 8:36am
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Pallai wrote on Feb 3rd, 2011 at 5:39am:
See, that's the input I was looking for.  I appreciate the honesty and explanation of why you think it sucks.

Like you said however, it is fun to push the envelope and see what you can do with unconventional/novelty builds.

Not something I'm completely interested in levelling, but just some ideas I was playing around with and wanted some input.


I just TR'd my Pale Shintao into a cleric.  I'm done with the uber gimpositude of the Wiz/Monk thing...it really, really, really, sucked balls.  Not enough spell DPS to matter, not enough melee DPS to matter, pretty much relegated to buff-bot if one actually cared about doing something positive to contribute to the party.
  

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Re: Build abomination discussion time!
Reply #22 - Feb 16th, 2011 at 8:57am
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To those that insist on playing these gimps:

If you just hit the LFM with no commentary, expect to get declined.
If you send a tell in advance, expect to get declined.
If you don't know the person you're sending a tell to, expect to get declined.
If there is any other warm body trying to get into the quest, expect to get declined.
If the LFM has had anyone join it in the last 5 minutes, expect to get declined.

If you actually want to get into a group past level 6, here's how to do it:
- Join on another character.
- When the group fills, say you are on timer.  Even if you're running Delera's.
- Say you are switching to ____________.
- Switch and send the leader a tell asking for an invite.

Finally, don't ever get pissed when someone declines you for a group.  You asked for it when you made your FvS/Sorc/Monk.
  
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Re: Build abomination discussion time!
Reply #23 - Feb 18th, 2011 at 7:03pm
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As a proud  member of the Loreseekers Waartribe, I have found it easy to get into groups, dispite my build. ATM i'm a 4/4/3 monk/ftr/sorc, Helf with FvS dilettante. I have my pros and cons like any other build. Granted, endgame quests I might not get into groups so easily, But I have fun. I have been playing since DDO came out. I have been declined on my single class toons in the past, doesn't hurt my feelings If I don't get accepted into a group. I expect to get declined more on this build, but hey, thats what a guild is for.  Grin
  
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Re: Build abomination discussion time!
Reply #24 - Feb 18th, 2011 at 7:46pm
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velwaar wrote on Feb 18th, 2011 at 7:03pm:
As a proud  member of the Loreseekers Waartribe, I have found it easy to get into groups, dispite my build. ATM i'm a 4/4/3 monk/ftr/sorc, Helf with FvS dilettante. I have my pros and cons like any other build. Granted, endgame quests I might not get into groups so easily, But I have fun. I have been playing since DDO came out. I have been declined on my single class toons in the past, doesn't hurt my feelings If I don't get accepted into a group. I expect to get declined more on this build, but hey, thats what a guild is for.  Grin


Hola Bienvenido
  

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