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Soul
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Going to play a rogue for the first time.
Mar 24th, 2011 at 11:41pm
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Anything I should know besides max strength and lulz getz da trapz?
  
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Re: Going to play a rogue for the first time.
Reply #1 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 12:17am
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Soul wrote on Mar 24th, 2011 at 11:41pm:
Anything I should know besides max strength and lulz getz da trapz?

Don't get the aggros.
  
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Soul
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Re: Going to play a rogue for the first time.
Reply #2 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 12:18am
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Glenalth wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 12:17am:
Don't get the aggros.


Oh man, I am already on that shit. Seriously. So much dps from sneak attack already, and I'm only level 7. It's like THIS IS LEVEL 7? Really? REALLY!? *Kobold voice* I can't wait till I can see full SA damage.
  
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Cale
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Re: Going to play a rogue for the first time.
Reply #3 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:32am
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Soul wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 12:18am:
Oh man, I am already on that shit. Seriously. So much dps from sneak attack already, and I'm only level 7. It's like THIS IS LEVEL 7? Really? REALLY!? *Kobold voice* I can't wait till I can see full SA damage.

Yeah, you have the idea.
Just pick a meat shield buddy.  Stay on his ass.  Attack whatever he's attacking, but wait until he's already swung once or twice before you do so that he has aggro instead of you.
When he moves, you move with him.
Use the buddy system, but don't tell him that you're doing it.  Just laugh at how you have three times as many kills as the barbarian and make fun of him.

Keep level appropriate gear at all times.  Every odd level you hit, go grab new gear.
I use goggle swap for all three: Blindness Ward of the Eagle, Search, Disable.  Once you get Tharne's, just swap to Disable when needed.
I place the appropriate goggles above the appropriate skill button on hotbars.  So before I search, I make sure I'm wearing the goggles above the search button.  Before I disable.... you get the idea.  Make sure to swap back when you're done.

Make a hotbar for UMD gear and items that need UMD to use.  The first slot or three is for gear swaps to get the UMD high enough, the rest are for scrolls/wands/etc.  It's faster and much easier to get a scroll off successfully when you have to hit 2-4 buttons in succession if those buttons are right next to each other.

Any other questions, feel free to ask.
Welcome to the Dark Side.

edit:
Oh, and I forgot to mention.... get as many rogues in the group as possible and fight as one unit.  Only one of you can have aggro at a time.
People who say "There's too many Rogues" are fucking idiots.

further edit:
I prefer a +X keen of pure good in main hand and a +1 *highest seeker available* of pure good in my off hand until IC.
« Last Edit: Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:49am by Cale »  

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Soul
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Re: Going to play a rogue for the first time.
Reply #4 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 3:12am
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Cale wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:32am:
Keep level appropriate gear at all times.  Every odd level you hit, go grab new gear.
I use goggle swap for all three: Blindness Ward of the Eagle, Search, Disable.  Once you get Tharne's, just swap to Disable when needed.
I place the appropriate goggles above the appropriate skill button on hotbars.  So before I search, I make sure I'm wearing the goggles above the search button.  Before I disable.... you get the idea.  Make sure to swap back when you're done.


That's a great idea. I was using like gloves and shit. Wish I had thought of this earlier.

Cale wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:32am:
Make a hotbar for UMD gear and items that need UMD to use.  The first slot or three is for gear swaps to get the UMD high enough, the rest are for scrolls/wands/etc.  It's faster and much easier to get a scroll off successfully when you have to hit 2-4 buttons in succession if those buttons are right next to each other.


Unfortunately I don't have the funds atm or the twink gear (non-tr) to fund all the UMD shit. But that's actually something I had planned on doing already. What's the first thing I should make when I get shroud level? a charisma skills item or an hp item? I went wf for extra hp for my frist life since I plan on TRing him for the boss past life feat but I was nervous about having shit HP on an untwinked rogue, eventually going half-orc.


Cale wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:32am:
Any other questions, feel free to ask.
Welcome to the Dark Side.

edit:
Oh, and I forgot to mention.... get as many rogues in the group as possible and fight as one unit.  Only one of you can have aggro at a time.
People who say "There's too many Rogues" are fucking idiots.

further edit:
I prefer a +X keen of pure good in main hand and a +1 *highest seeker available* of pure good in my off hand until IC.


That's actually a good idea. I was just using a g-axe axe until I get itwf tho Shocked I took a barb level to martial proficiency and sprint boost for faster leveling.

I am wondering how you level without proficiency in x weapons if you're a pure though. Do you just use rapiers until you get take khopesh or...? I was thinking about not crafting any khopeshes because of what Nick said about khopesh probably taking a nerf hit, but I figured fuck if firewall is still uber after the nerf (as a matter of fact, it's better than ever before with +50% damage from what was autocrit) then Khopesh will probably still be one of (if not THE best) weapon in the game after it gets nerfed.

Totally looking forward to update 9 with this build. I will be grinding so hard to destroy epics Cheesy:D:D:D:D:D:D
« Last Edit: Mar 25th, 2011 at 3:13am by Soul »  
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Cale
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Re: Going to play a rogue for the first time.
Reply #5 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 3:53am
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Soul wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 3:12am:
What's the first thing I should make when I get shroud level? a charisma skills item or an hp item?

Honestly, I think crafting a Cha skills GS is a waste of larges.
Just make a second set of DT, with +6 Cha and Cha skills.
That adds +6 with a single swap, +9 with a Cartouche and two swaps.
Just with those two items, if you started with a 6 Cha and ate a +2 tome:
23 ranks
+2 Cha mod
+4 GH
+3 Cartouche
+3 Ex Cha skills on DT
--------
35 bare minimum, more if you have 7 fingered gloves, spyglass, Cha on ToD rings, Skill Focus, Skill Mastery, two separate ship buffs- one for Cha, one for skills-, or started with higher Cha.
It's EASY to get UMD high on a rogue.  Crafting GS for it is a waste IMO.
Craft a Rad2, Lit2, and HP item which can also be Rad Guard.

My 13 rogue/6 pally/1 monk no-fails heal scrolls without a gear swap.
UMD is easy.
He has the following GS:
Main hand - Lit2 scimmy - standard holy, shocking burst, shocking blast
Off hand - Rad2 scimmy - holy, +4 Insight, 15% fire absorb
HP - ConOp cloak - 10hp, 15hp, 100sp - serves dual purpose of consolidating hp item and Wis item into 1 slot, while also giving his nonexistent sp bar a boost to spam DivFav and DivSac nonstop.  He still wears Minos to make up the difference.
Yeah, I know, I should have made it 150sp, 15hp, 20hp.  Hindsight and all that....
Rad Guard is on my DT instead of my hp cloak in this case.

Soul wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 3:12am:
I am wondering how you level without proficiency in x weapons if you're a pure though. Do you just use rapiers until you get take khopesh or...? I was thinking about not crafting any khopeshes because of what Nick said about khopesh probably taking a nerf hit

Haven't seen Nick's post, so I can't comment on that, but I don't use khopeshes personally.
I use rapier/ss or scimmy/kukri depending on whether I'm pure or multi, then rapier/rapier or scimmy/scimmy once I have the BaB and buffs to handle it.
Maces/hammers/Qstaves or wraps depending on whether he has a monk splash or not for when bludgeoning is needed.
« Last Edit: Mar 25th, 2011 at 4:45am by Cale »  

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Re: Going to play a rogue for the first time.
Reply #6 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 9:30am
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I personally prefer dex builds, but it's a flavor option.  The difference between the two isn't worth all the arguments on the forums.  If you like to hit everytime, go dex.  More damage but a slight reduction in to-hit, go strength.  Both work just fine.

And yes, the SA damage does get ridiculous.  My main is a dex build elf, and I still see triple digit SA damage.  Not every time, but often enough.  If I had gone halfling it would be every time.

Two suggestions:

You can make your aggro somewhat self-managing by loading up on bonuses to hit when you don't have aggro.  Backstabbing weapons are great for this -- they were my preferred off-hand (over seeker) prior to getting Tharne's, especially after they upped the damage modifier.  The rogue enhancements (and halfling) work equally well.  Then when  you do get aggro, your to-hit will drop noticably, and of course your DPS drops when you lose SA.  A couple of swings by the fighter and you are back in the game.

Cale's suggestion above is great for gear swapping.  What I found works for me is to line up everything in a row on one hot bar, so that I just click my way across it.  Here's an example:

1: Search goggles
2: Search
3: Disable goggles
4: Disable Device
5: Combat goggles (what I normally wear)
6: Open Lock gloves
7: Open Lock
8: Combat gloves (what I normally wear)

Ink
« Last Edit: Mar 25th, 2011 at 9:30am by Inkblack »  
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Re: Going to play a rogue for the first time.
Reply #7 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 10:01am
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Oh, here's the must have raid gear, in order of importance:

1. Radiance weapon
2. Madstone Boots
3. Tharne's Goggles

Yes, I really think the boots are more important than Tharne's.
  
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Re: Going to play a rogue for the first time.
Reply #8 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 10:46am
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1. Lit2 kopesh
2. Tharnes goggles
3. Madstone boots
  
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Re: Going to play a rogue for the first time.
Reply #9 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 12:32pm
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Thanks for the suggestions guys. Considering that I run mostly epic content, I don't see myself making radience weapons until radience becomes a lot less annoying in epics. I have a radience guard on my favored soul and honestly the most annoying thing is when a mob hits me and then gets mass held. It would just piss me off wasting 10 scales on a weapon that will make something run away from me everytime there's some cc on it. I was actually thinking more along the lines of litII khopeshes.
  
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Re: Going to play a rogue for the first time.
Reply #10 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 1:51pm
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Owned
  
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Re: Going to play a rogue for the first time.
Reply #11 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:05pm
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Re: Madstone Boots

I don't like them on my rogues for general questing, and only put them on for boss fights.
When you need a heal scroll or a raise dead scroll, you generally need it right now.  Locking out UMD for almost 2 minutes isn't worth the tiny bit of damage that they add IMO.

Oh, and Tools.
Keep 2 sets in your Inv, and hotbar them both like you do mats on your caster.  As soon as 1 set is gone, replace it.
You'll never run out.  Ever.
« Last Edit: Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:09pm by Cale »  

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Re: Going to play a rogue for the first time.
Reply #12 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:23pm
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Cale wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:05pm:
Re: Madstone Boots

I don't like them on my rogues for general questing, and only put them on for boss fights.
When you need a heal scroll or a raise dead scroll, you generally need it right now.  Locking out UMD for almost 2 minutes isn't worth the tiny bit of damage that they add IMO.

Oh, and Tools.
Keep 2 sets in your Inv, and hotbar them both like you do mats on your caster.  As soon as 1 set is gone, replace it.
You'll never run out.  Ever.


These are both very good ideas. Especially the second. I would hate to run out of tools, then I would have to jump over the traps like all my other melees. :/ Being 100% serious. I sorta like disarming traps Cheesy
  
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Re: Going to play a rogue for the first time.
Reply #13 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:30pm
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Cale wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:05pm:
Re: Madstone Boots

I don't like them on my rogues for general questing, and only put them on for boss fights.
When you need a heal scroll or a raise dead scroll, you generally need it right now.  Locking out UMD for almost 2 minutes isn't worth the tiny bit of damage that they add IMO.

Oh, and Tools.
Keep 2 sets in your Inv, and hotbar them both like you do mats on your caster.  As soon as 1 set is gone, replace it.
You'll never run out.  Ever.

I am always surprised that I don't need UMD nearly as much as I thought I would, hence why I like the boots.  There are times I take them off (like a weak group or when I need to remove my curses) but generally they are an all the time thing.
  
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Re: Going to play a rogue for the first time.
Reply #14 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:37pm
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Dustless are my general purpose boots for most of my rogues.
But My boots slot is always my biggest hotswap slot on all of my toons.

Dustless/Striders/Innocent for questing, depending on the toon.
Swaps for FF, Madstone, Anchoring, and various clickies.
I keep 3 vertical hotbars on the right of the screen for gear swaps.  Main gear on the left, with the inside and the one on the right for swaps.  Boots usually takes up two rows instead of one.

And unless it's a guild run raid or a drunken Friday night run, I usually pug.... or am teaching the newbs for something they signed up to learn, so I'm often in groups that I don't have any confidence in.  That's why Madstone doesn't sit well with me for general questing.
  

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Re: Going to play a rogue for the first time.
Reply #15 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 4:14pm
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Cale wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:37pm:
Dustless are my general purpose boots for most of my rogues.
But My boots slot is always my biggest hotswap slot on all of my toons.

Dustless/Striders/Innocent for questing, depending on the toon.
Swaps for FF, Madstone, Anchoring, and various clickies.
I keep 3 vertical hotbars on the right of the screen for gear swaps.  Main gear on the left, with the inside and the one on the right for swaps.  Boots usually takes up two rows instead of one.

And unless it's a guild run raid or a drunken Friday night run, I usually pug.... or am teaching the newbs for something they signed up to learn, so I'm often in groups that I don't have any confidence in.  That's why Madstone doesn't sit well with me for general questing.


I'd bet with me as a guildie there will be times you don't feel safe with them on in guild runs.
  
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Re: Going to play a rogue for the first time.
Reply #16 - Mar 26th, 2011 at 12:41am
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Oh the thought occured to me, I also want this character to be able to solo high level content ie amrath quests, since it's really one of the things I get the most enjoyment out of. (I solo a lot, when I'm not running epics/raids). How do you guys take advantage of the obviously high potential for rogues to solo other than hide/move silently.

While I've always been a fan of hide and move silently since it can make some dungeons actually quicker than brute force sometimes I just don't want to be that careful, what if by chance I want to run for example Wraith of the Flame for bloods? I was thinking UMDing summons scrolls would be a good way to get full SA, but that becomes tedious and expensive. Any thoughts? Look forward to hearing your responses.

EDIT: Aside from the obvious rad and go, as I will be making litII's first.

Although, now that I think about it... RadIIs are looking much more appealing as a first weapon. :/ Gay, choices!
« Last Edit: Mar 26th, 2011 at 3:39am by Soul »  
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Re: Going to play a rogue for the first time.
Reply #17 - Mar 26th, 2011 at 4:51am
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Inkblack wrote on Mar 25th, 2011 at 2:30pm:
when I need to remove my curses)


You do know you can use guild curse pots even when raged right?

Unless of course you just like having two different sets of pots on different timers.  For those that dont know, they are.  THIS IS HOW NOOBS GET THROUGH INFERNO, SO STOP FUCKING DYING IN IT!

Feels good to get that out every now and then.
  

OnePercenter wrote on May 15th, 2014 at 9:41am:
I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.  #epochsfamiliarFTW

Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 2:09am:
It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity.
Even against donuts.
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Re: Going to play a rogue for the first time.
Reply #18 - Mar 26th, 2011 at 6:08am
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Soul wrote on Mar 26th, 2011 at 12:41am:
EDIT: Aside from the obvious rad and go, as I will be making litII's first.

Although, now that I think about it... RadIIs are looking much more appealing as a first weapon. :/ Gay, choices!

Radiance on a set of DT can work as well, if you have aggro they'll likely set it off.
  
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Re: Going to play a rogue for the first time.
Reply #19 - Mar 26th, 2011 at 6:12am
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Epoch wrote on Mar 26th, 2011 at 4:51am:
You do know you can use guild curse pots even when raged right?

Unless of course you just like having two different sets of pots on different timers.  For those that dont know, they are.  THIS IS HOW NOOBS GET THROUGH INFERNO, SO STOP FUCKING DYING IN IT!

Feels good to get that out every now and then.


I was not aware of that, is that the same case with the cure pots or is it just the funnel vs non-funnel pots?
  
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Re: Going to play a rogue for the first time.
Reply #20 - Mar 26th, 2011 at 6:36am
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Soul wrote on Mar 26th, 2011 at 12:41am:
Although, now that I think about it... RadIIs are looking much more appealing as a first weapon. :/ Gay, choices!

I already answered that.
Rad2 & Lit2 should be first.  Not Lit2's, as in plural  One of each.
Since you specified wanting to solo, Rad2 is more important that Lit2, but crafting them both together will totally change your game.
« Last Edit: Mar 26th, 2011 at 6:36am by Cale »  

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Re: Going to play a rogue for the first time.
Reply #21 - Mar 26th, 2011 at 6:37am
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Glenalth wrote on Mar 26th, 2011 at 6:12am:
I was not aware of that, is that the same case with the cure pots or is it just the funnel vs non-funnel pots?


Never tried the cure pots.  I would assume so though.
  

OnePercenter wrote on May 15th, 2014 at 9:41am:
I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.  #epochsfamiliarFTW

Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 2:09am:
It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity.
Even against donuts.
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Re: Going to play a rogue for the first time.
Reply #22 - Mar 26th, 2011 at 6:39am
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Glenalth wrote on Mar 26th, 2011 at 6:12am:
I was not aware of that, is that the same case with the cure pots or is it just the funnel vs non-funnel pots?

It has to do with the animation.
Regular curse pots are a casting animation, so they can't be used while madstoned, but they can be used on others.
Guild curse pots have a drinking animation, so they can be used while raged, but only on yourself.
Cure pots are all drinking animation.
« Last Edit: Mar 26th, 2011 at 6:40am by Cale »  

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Re: Going to play a rogue for the first time.
Reply #23 - Mar 26th, 2011 at 11:48am
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Cale wrote on Mar 26th, 2011 at 6:36am:
I already answered that.
Rad2 & Lit2 should be first.  Not Lit2's, as in plural  One of each.
Since you specified wanting to solo, Rad2 is more important that Lit2, but crafting them both together will totally change your game.


I was thinking you meat craft a radII weapon set first. I guess I could do what you suggest. I'm thinking I'll just equip my +5 metalline khopesh of pure good when I don't want to blind things, and my rad when I do.
  
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Re: Going to play a rogue for the first time.
Reply #24 - Mar 26th, 2011 at 2:35pm
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Soul wrote on Mar 26th, 2011 at 11:48am:
I was thinking you meat craft a radII weapon set first. I guess I could do what you suggest. I'm thinking I'll just equip my +5 metalline khopesh of pure good when I don't want to blind things, and my rad when I do.

You could craft a set, but one is sufficient, especially if you put Rad Guard on your DT or your HP item.  If you do that then a set is definitely overkill.
Rad2, HP, Lit2, in that order IMO.
« Last Edit: Mar 26th, 2011 at 2:37pm by Cale »  

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