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Sorc "no go" areas Post U9 (Read 4522 times)

Calvet Puppy Farmer Offline I take stroke pills! Posts: 1497 Location: United Kingdom Joined: Dec 6^th, 2010 Gender:	Sorc "no go" areas Post U9 Apr 15^th, 2011 at 7:35am	Print Post
	After all the "adjustments" made on the Lamania server to the Savant lines and general spell effects, I'm curious to see the general opinion of which Raids/quests that the Sorcerer class might find themselves excluded by your average LFM. I've read all the hyperbole on the official forums about what they will be able to contribute (Or not), I'm just looking to see how people think it will affect the "Bottom line" of being able to get into groups with the intention of doing something productive.

	Epoch wrote on Nov 29^th, 2011 at 1:22am: You do what i do when people say I don't have to drink pots? I dot the boss and use BBs on the trash and say, " Aww shucks, im outta sp." Quote: Now I am a very bad cleric. I just wait like a vulture for everyone to die. Light a man a fire and he will be warm for the night.� Light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
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Asheras Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline This is why we can't have nice things. Posts: 10230 Location: Ohio Joined: Jun 9^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Sorc "no go" areas Post U9 Reply #1 - Apr 15^th, 2011 at 9:20am	Print Post
	I'm not the most experienced caster player around (mostly play melee and healers. Have one caster capped) but I'm not sure why Sorc would be excluded. Looking at the end game raids: Elite VoD - Caster buffs, reconstructs the suulu tank, and helps clear trash. Elite Hound - Caster buffs, clears trash. Elite Shroud - Caster buffs, clears portal trash, drops ele, preps crystal, drops gnolls, contributes mild DPS to Harry. Tower - Caster buffs, reconstructs, kites, clears trash. Epic 6 - Caster buffs, backup CC, maybe drops a djinni/pillar, kites or DPS's reaver spawns, tosses some DPS onto Velah. Epic Chrono - Caster buffs, heavy CC. Epic DQ2 - Caster buffs, DPS on Queen and Trash. 6 Man Epics - Varies slightly but mostly buffs and heavy CC. Of course with U9 changes to epic wards and spells this will evolve. I'm not sure I see anything in that list that a sorc can't do well enough to contribute. The most limiting factor for casters (Wiz or Sorc) getting into raids seems to be that the majority of raids/epics only need 1 or maybe 2 at most to be successful. What am I missing?


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Calvet Puppy Farmer Offline I take stroke pills! Posts: 1497 Location: United Kingdom Joined: Dec 6^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Sorc "no go" areas Post U9 Reply #2 - Apr 15^th, 2011 at 9:37am	Print Post
	Seems a reasonable assesment to me. I was only asking really because of the the Dooo0000m on Lamania forums. I don't play on the test, ahem I mean preview server so I can only go by what other people are saying atm. I just got the impression from some people that they thought the sorc may not be able to fill a DPS role and in some epic or hard/elite amarath wouldn't be specced enough to handle a CC role. My first thought was that a lot of end game raids at least (E Chrono being the exception) don't really require a lot if any CC anyway.

	Epoch wrote on Nov 29^th, 2011 at 1:22am: You do what i do when people say I don't have to drink pots? I dot the boss and use BBs on the trash and say, " Aww shucks, im outta sp." Quote: Now I am a very bad cleric. I just wait like a vulture for everyone to die. Light a man a fire and he will be warm for the night.� Light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
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Strakeln Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Lumberjack Posts: 12345 Joined: Jun 27^th, 2009	Re: Sorc "no go" areas Post U9 Reply #3 - Apr 15^th, 2011 at 8:04pm	Print Post
	So long as haste is still in their spellbook they should be good to go.

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Rastelin Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 305 Joined: Jan 3^rd, 2011	Re: Sorc "no go" areas Post U9 Reply #4 - Apr 15^th, 2011 at 8:24pm	Print Post
	Calvet wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 9:37am: Seems a reasonable assesment to me.� I was only asking really because of the the Dooo0000m on Lamania forums.� I don't play on the test, ahem I mean preview server� so I can only go by what other people are saying atm. I just got the impression from some people that they thought the sorc may not be able to fill a DPS role and in some epic or hard/elite amarath wouldn't be specced enough to handle a CC role. My first thought was that a lot of end game raids at least (E Chrono being the exception) don't really require a lot if any CC anyway.� The big problem is that the only really useful line (ie worth taking at all) is air savant, which will be hard to justify taking if you do tod at all.


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Epoch Alaskan Ice Hole Offline Epochalypse Posts: 10377 Location: Frozen Tundra Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Sorc "no go" areas Post U9 Reply #5 - Apr 15^th, 2011 at 11:22pm	Print Post
	Rastelin wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 8:24pm: The big problem is that the only really useful line (ie worth taking at all) is air savant, which will be hard to justify taking if you do tod at all. How would it be rough justifying in tod?

	OnePercenter wrote on May 15^th, 2014 at 9:41am: I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.� #epochsfamiliarFTW Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 2:09am: It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity. Even against donuts.
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Rastelin Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 305 Joined: Jan 3^rd, 2011	Re: Sorc "no go" areas Post U9 Reply #6 - Apr 16^th, 2011 at 3:23am	Print Post
	Epoch wrote on Apr 15^th, 2011 at 11:22pm: How would it be rough justifying in tod? Stoning the orthons helps immensely. You can TTS them, but then they spawn faster.


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Epoch Alaskan Ice Hole Offline Epochalypse Posts: 10377 Location: Frozen Tundra Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Sorc "no go" areas Post U9 Reply #7 - Apr 16^th, 2011 at 5:37am	Print Post
	Rastelin wrote on Apr 16^th, 2011 at 3:23am: Stoning the orthons helps immensely. You can TTS them, but then they spawn faster. In my millions of completions, I have never stoned the orthons, maybe a couple times in pugs... maybe.� Not even on elite.� My method? Glad you asked.� I always kill suulo, so we typically have everyone but the tanks and healers break off and kill orthons.� Stoning them just means they dont hurt anyone till the melee kill them.� Which is usually pretty quickly.� Also, if I have 2 monks or just 2 stun based guys (that arent the tanks) then those 2 kill the orthons while the rest kill the bosses. If any group NEEDS justification for any cc spell to complete a raid - maybe, just maybe, they shouldn't be running that raid just yet.
	« Last Edit: Apr 16^th, 2011 at 5:38am by Epoch »
	OnePercenter wrote on May 15^th, 2014 at 9:41am: I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.� #epochsfamiliarFTW Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 2:09am: It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity. Even against donuts.
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Rastelin Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 305 Joined: Jan 3^rd, 2011	Re: Sorc "no go" areas Post U9 Reply #8 - Apr 16^th, 2011 at 7:13am	Print Post
	Epoch wrote on Apr 16^th, 2011 at 5:37am: In my millions of completions, I have never stoned the orthons, maybe a couple times in pugs... maybe.� Not even on elite.� My method? Glad you asked.� I always kill suulo, so we typically have everyone but the tanks and healers break off and kill orthons.� Stoning them just means they dont hurt anyone till the melee kill them.� Which is usually pretty quickly.� Also, if I have 2 monks or just 2 stun based guys (that arent the tanks) then those 2 kill the orthons while the rest kill the bosses. If any group NEEDS justification for any cc spell to complete a raid - maybe, just maybe, they shouldn't be running that raid just yet. Those 2 guys killing the orthons could be.... killing sulu. True, you could have a caster healing the sulu tank, but what happens if you take 2 in? I would much rather have 1 caster deal with trash, than 2 monks. Maybe if your tank can't handle a full groups DPS, you should find a new tank Just kidding, both ways are viable, but I think that having just 1 caster doing trash speeds up the entire process. Not having FTS will be a blow, to be certain. However, air savants will have tricks. I was just saying that it will be hard to decide whether I want the Pre on my caster. Actually, given the recent nerfs I'll probably keep him as a Pale Master dual specced ench/necro. With the 2 new spells, I should be able to have decent raid DPS, and my trash killing will be unparalleled (even more so than now).


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Calvet Puppy Farmer Offline I take stroke pills! Posts: 1497 Location: United Kingdom Joined: Dec 6^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Sorc "no go" areas Post U9 Reply #9 - Apr 16^th, 2011 at 10:00am	Print Post
	I guess in that scenario the air savant can be assigned to Recon heal and place a curse on sulu for the extra Lit II damage while the other arcane (Let's say Wizard for arguments sake) lays down the web, FTS etc.

	Epoch wrote on Nov 29^th, 2011 at 1:22am: You do what i do when people say I don't have to drink pots? I dot the boss and use BBs on the trash and say, " Aww shucks, im outta sp." Quote: Now I am a very bad cleric. I just wait like a vulture for everyone to die. Light a man a fire and he will be warm for the night.� Light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
	IP Logged

Strakeln Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Lumberjack Posts: 12345 Joined: Jun 27^th, 2009	Re: Sorc "no go" areas Post U9 Reply #10 - Apr 16^th, 2011 at 11:39am	Print Post
	Why two monks? One light monk is more than enough to take care of ToD trash.

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Arkat Chonus Christ Offline Hola Bienvenido Posts: 12345 Location: Wyoming Joined: Jul 13^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: Sorc "no go" areas Post U9 Reply #11 - Apr 16^th, 2011 at 1:53pm	Print Post
	Strakeln wrote on Apr 16^th, 2011 at 11:39am: Why two monks?� One light monk is more than enough to take care of ToD trash. Yes

	Stand on hills of long-forgotten yesterdays... Looking for a sign that the Universal Mind has written you into the Passion Play.
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Blank_Zero Ex Member	Re: Sorc "no go" areas Post U9 Reply #12 - Apr 16^th, 2011 at 2:31pm	Print Post
	Strakeln wrote on Apr 16^th, 2011 at 11:39am: Why two monks?� One light monk is more than enough to take care of ToD trash. ToD elite Pugs. 2 Light Monks as a "Just in Case" factor. Also, with Smite Tainted Creature, Light monks actually do quite a bit DPS-Wise Edit: Also helps if they circle and take care of Grasping everyone periodically.
	« Last Edit: Apr 16^th, 2011 at 2:32pm by »

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Epoch Alaskan Ice Hole Offline Epochalypse Posts: 10377 Location: Frozen Tundra Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Sorc "no go" areas Post U9 Reply #13 - Apr 16^th, 2011 at 6:54pm	Print Post
	Rastelin wrote on Apr 16^th, 2011 at 7:13am: Those 2 guys killing the orthons could be.... killing sulu. True, you could have a caster healing the sulu tank, but what happens if you take 2 in? I would much rather have 1 caster deal with trash, than 2 monks. Maybe if your tank can't handle a full groups DPS, you should find a new tank� Just kidding, both ways are viable, but I think that having just 1 caster doing trash speeds up the entire process. Not having FTS will be a blow, to be certain. However, air savants will have tricks. I was just saying that it will be hard to decide whether I want the Pre on my caster. Actually, given the recent nerfs I'll probably keep him as a Pale Master dual specced ench/necro. With the 2 new spells, I should be able to have decent raid DPS, and my trash killing will be unparalleled (even more so than now). I typically have a caster heal the tank. I would rather have 1 caster - more is just wasteful. Also, since non tank aggro isn't one thing made up by the rest of the party and it is individually done - your comment makes you seem incredibly stupid. I dont wait for specific people to fulfill roles - tank/healer and whatever else. I would rather wait 5-10 mins to fill and complete in 35mins (at most) then wait for 25 mins. One last thing. What happens when your one guy lags out and gets killed? That just added to how long you are in there. I don't know about you, but the people I raid with bring enough dps to lag the hell out of ToD. Relying on one person with a bunch of orthons usually winds up as a bad idea. Quote: ToD elite Pugs. 2 Light Monks as a "Just in Case" factor. Also, with Smite Tainted Creature, Light monks actually do quite a bit DPS-Wise Edit: Also helps if they circle and take care of Grasping everyone periodically. Meh, you can do it without light monks, they aren' that important. It is just if I do have them they better served on cleanup. Otherwise, the whole party can allowing (ugh) if we have an ac tank (which some of the people I raid with refuse to let go) can keep aggro.

	OnePercenter wrote on May 15^th, 2014 at 9:41am: I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.� #epochsfamiliarFTW Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 2:09am: It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity. Even against donuts.
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Blank_Zero Ex Member	Re: Sorc "no go" areas Post U9 Reply #14 - Apr 16^th, 2011 at 8:37pm	Print Post
	Epoch wrote on Apr 16^th, 2011 at 6:54pm: Meh, you can do it without light monks, they aren' that important.� It is just if I do have them they better served on cleanup.� Otherwise, the whole party can allowing (ugh) if we have an ac tank (which some of the people I raid with refuse to let go) can keep aggro. DON'T SAY THAT!! It's the only way I can get my light monk into Elite ToDs nowadays >.>


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Epoch Alaskan Ice Hole Offline Epochalypse Posts: 10377 Location: Frozen Tundra Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Sorc "no go" areas Post U9 Reply #15 - Apr 17^th, 2011 at 1:41am	Print Post
	Quote: DON'T SAY THAT!! It's the only way I can get my light monk into Elite ToDs nowadays >.> Lol, all the cleric needs to do is bring a couple mantles or a spell absorption item. Stuns blocked.

	OnePercenter wrote on May 15^th, 2014 at 9:41am: I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.� #epochsfamiliarFTW Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 2:09am: It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity. Even against donuts.
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Blank_Zero Ex Member	Re: Sorc "no go" areas Post U9 Reply #16 - Apr 17^th, 2011 at 2:20am	Print Post
	Epoch wrote on Apr 17^th, 2011 at 1:41am: Lol, all the cleric needs to do is bring a couple mantles or a spell absorption item.� Stuns blocked. QUIET YOU!!!!


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Epoch Alaskan Ice Hole Offline Epochalypse Posts: 10377 Location: Frozen Tundra Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Sorc "no go" areas Post U9 Reply #17 - Apr 17^th, 2011 at 6:52am	Print Post
	Quote: QUIET YOU!!!! I have a light monk - I still tell my clerics to bring that shit. I am not going to rebuff ever 55 seconds. It just isn't happening.

	OnePercenter wrote on May 15^th, 2014 at 9:41am: I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.� #epochsfamiliarFTW Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 2:09am: It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity. Even against donuts.
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Asheras Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline This is why we can't have nice things. Posts: 10230 Location: Ohio Joined: Jun 9^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Sorc "no go" areas Post U9 Reply #18 - Apr 19^th, 2011 at 11:56am	Print Post
	Epoch wrote on Apr 17^th, 2011 at 6:52am: I have a light monk - I still tell my clerics to bring that shit.� I am not going to rebuff ever 55 seconds.� It just isn't happening. A healer without a mantle in ToD is unprepared.� Simple as that.� Those stuns can ruin a run.� Why take the risk when the solution is a guaranteed drop end reward from a quest chain that takes maybe 90 minutes to complete at level with a tard group.� Sorry I meant to say PuG.� If you have a healer in your group that doesn't have a mantle and they are already in the tower cave, tell them to go refresh their ship buffs and drop them as soon as they get back to amrath. Get a cleric with a clue.
	« Last Edit: Apr 19^th, 2011 at 11:58am by Asheras »

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Epoch Alaskan Ice Hole Offline Epochalypse Posts: 10377 Location: Frozen Tundra Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Sorc "no go" areas Post U9 Reply #19 - Apr 20^th, 2011 at 6:52am	Print Post
	Asheras wrote on Apr 19^th, 2011 at 11:56am: A healer without a mantle in ToD is unprepared.� Simple as that.� Those stuns can ruin a run.� Why take the risk when the solution is a guaranteed drop end reward from a quest chain that takes maybe 90 minutes to complete at level with a tard group.� Sorry I meant to say PuG.� If you have a healer in your group that doesn't have a mantle and they are already in the tower cave, tell them to go refresh their ship buffs and drop them as soon as they get back to amrath.� Get a cleric with a clue. 90 mins is to long. Any quest that takes close to an hour is to long. If it takes longer then 45 mins it isn't my group.

	OnePercenter wrote on May 15^th, 2014 at 9:41am: I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.� #epochsfamiliarFTW Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 2:09am: It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity. Even against donuts.
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Asheras Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline This is why we can't have nice things. Posts: 10230 Location: Ohio Joined: Jun 9^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Sorc "no go" areas Post U9 Reply #20 - Apr 20^th, 2011 at 1:30pm	Print Post
	Epoch wrote on Apr 20^th, 2011 at 6:52am: 90 mins is to long.� Any quest that takes close to an hour is to long.� If it takes longer then 45 mins it isn't my group. I was being charitable. There's about 10-12 quests in the chain. If you don't know them well, some of those cave maps could get confusing. For an experienced player it could be faster, I agree. But then, not many experienced players will bring their Healer into ToD without a mantle.


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