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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't (Read 41210 times)
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Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't
Mar 15th, 2012 at 1:44pm
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http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=365315

I mean srsly. Pretty damn good evidence that the reasons for crippling lag being that the quest/raid you're in is in a shared instance, so to speak, with the crafting halls. This was done using the /loc command. I would think that the devs/QA folks would have much more powerful tools to monitor this stuff, and fucking handle it.

What ever happened to Mosuer anyway? Haven't seen him around these parts lately.
  
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Re: Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't
Reply #1 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 2:08pm
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rest wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 1:44pm:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=365315

I mean srsly. Pretty damn good evidence that the reasons for crippling lag being that the quest/raid you're in is in a shared instance, so to speak, with the crafting halls. This was done using the /loc command. I would think that the devs/QA folks would have much more powerful tools to monitor this stuff, and fucking handle it.

What ever happened to Mosuer anyway? Haven't seen him around these parts lately.


I wonder why they can't address it too. I am not saying the underlying things aren't complicated, but at least acknowledge that the lag is tied to certain instances. I tried the /loc thing last night when I was having lag. I was in one of the instances people listed.

/sadtimes
  
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JDollar wrote on Apr 25th, 2013 at 4:47pm:
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Re: Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't
Reply #2 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 2:11pm
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So basically do a /loc check at the beginning of each raid now?
  
                                                                      
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Re: Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't
Reply #3 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 2:17pm
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Maxwell Edison wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 2:11pm:
So basically do a /loc check at the beginning of each raid now?


Looks like it. What a shitty workaround.
  
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scraap
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Re: Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't
Reply #4 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 2:33pm
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Anyone else find it interestin that it ends up bein the >2048 instances? That bit's got my gut twitching, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

Location packet header mebbey?
« Last Edit: Mar 15th, 2012 at 2:36pm by »  
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Re: Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't
Reply #5 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 3:26pm
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Someone else mentioned (Cyr, I think) that 2048 is the max for some 12 bit something or other. It was greek to me, but computer-y people might get it. Kinda like how the plat cap is the max value for something or other else. You know what I mean. Sorry I'm so vague, but I'm not a tech type of guy.
  
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Re: Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't
Reply #6 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 3:32pm
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I just tweeted Jerry and the official DDO twitter account asking for dev comment on said thread.
  
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Re: Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't
Reply #7 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 3:35pm
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We were in instance 2050 last night in the shroud I was running.  Lag spiked and wiped out 4 700hp+ barbs and fighters lol.  Reformed, got a 192 instance and rolled him.
  
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Re: Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't
Reply #8 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 3:37pm
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rest wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 1:44pm:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=365315

I mean srsly. Pretty damn good evidence that the reasons for crippling lag being that the quest/raid you're in is in a shared instance, so to speak, with the crafting halls. This was done using the /loc command. I would think that the devs/QA folks would have much more powerful tools to monitor this stuff, and fucking handle it.

What ever happened to Mosuer anyway? Haven't seen him around these parts lately.

Benevolent hackers & code strippers can do a great deal of good for some games.  I suppose that is why the guy posting uncompiled source getting banned annoyed me =/.
  
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Re: Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't
Reply #9 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 3:39pm
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rest wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 3:26pm:
Someone else mentioned (Cyr, I think) that 2048 is the max for some 12 bit something or other. It was greek to me, but computer-y people might get it. Kinda like how the plat cap is the max value for something or other else. You know what I mean. Sorry I'm so vague, but I'm not a tech type of guy.


From 0 to 4,294,967,295 is an insigned integer which is the data type in the db for the amount of plat you have.

2048 isn't really a limit but it does follow the standard delineation of bytes of 1024

so its 2X1024 of Xb
  
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hgm-chi
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Re: Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't
Reply #10 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 4:15pm
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rest wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 3:26pm:
Someone else mentioned (Cyr, I think) that 2048 is the max for some 12 bit something or other. It was greek to me, but computer-y people might get it. Kinda like how the plat cap is the max value for something or other else. You know what I mean. Sorry I'm so vague, but I'm not a tech type of guy.


There isn't any 12 bit variable type that I can think of in c.  A char is typically  8 bits,  and a short is at least 16 bits.  It is a power of 2 so might be significant for some other reason, though.  Perhaps they use a system of growing instances that grows them by a power of two as they're needed, and the jump from 1024 instances to 2048 marks the threshold of what their system can handle.  This would be compounded by the fact that the number of people online is also sufficient to cause the growth.  Assuming they "grow" instances dynamically at all.  I have no idea how their stuff works, at any level.
« Last Edit: Mar 15th, 2012 at 4:19pm by hgm-chi »  
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Re: Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't
Reply #11 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 4:20pm
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Majmal just posted a response in the Lam thread. I will paste it in a sec.

Quote:
Thanks for investigating, but this only points to a place it is happening not the problem.
We already collect this data, and when you see the bigger picture, it does not narrow down to just the crafting hall, or instance 2030 or whatnot. It can happen everywhere.
There is a few optimizations in the patch (not in this build tho...next week's...sorry) that should help everyone...especially large groups, but there is at least half a dozen other things we want to change/fix/optimize in the next couple of months.

there are two huge changes that I'll talk about right after patch 1 that we are doing. There are some big under the covers changes that are long overdue. Will this help the instance lag? To be honest, we are not sure yet, there is still more testing to be done.


http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4364481&postcount=23
« Last Edit: Mar 15th, 2012 at 4:22pm by stainer »  
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JDollar wrote on Apr 25th, 2013 at 4:47pm:
Stainer likes tractors
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Re: Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't
Reply #12 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 4:23pm
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From 0 to 4,294,967,295 is an insigned integer which is the data type in the db for the amount of plat you have.

2048 isn't really a limit but it does follow the standard delineation of bytes of 1024

so its 2X1024 of Xb


Yeah that.
  
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Re: Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't
Reply #13 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 4:24pm
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hgm-chi wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 4:15pm:
There isn't any 12 bit variable type that I can think of in c.  A char is typically  8 bits,  and a short is at least 16 bits.  It is a power of 2 so might be significant for some other reason, though.  Perhaps they use a system of growing instances that grows them by a power of two as they're needed, and the jump from 1024 instances to 2048 marks the threshold of what their system can handle.  This would be compounded by the fact that the number of people online is also sufficient to cause the growth.  Assuming they "grow" instances dynamically at all.  I have no idea how their stuff works, at any level.



Good stuff Yog. Thanks!
  
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scraap
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Re: Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't
Reply #14 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 4:36pm
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Yeah, closest I could remember offhand would be bit-masking, where you pretty much send a bunch of booleans to a client to tell it what part of your struct is coming next, but it doesn't quite fit...
  
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Re: Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't
Reply #15 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:04pm
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I love Grey Mouser.
  
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Re: Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't
Reply #16 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 6:21pm
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MajMal replied and they were aware and he asked that we cross fingers in the future
  
majmalphunktion wrote on Apr 26th, 2014 at 11:06pm:
Wow, you love me. There has been two big lag fixes in the past week. No, those are not going out with a hotfix. They are more wide ranging and take more time to test.
Of course every time you get like this, I keep wondering where your MMO is so I can play it. Obviously you know excatly how to piece one of these together. I can't keep apologizing a gazillion times for the back end tech and things people did on this game before I was even an employee. So one last time, yes some of the stuff from the before times sucks. Sorry about that. Yes we know, stop building new systems. Yes we know, finish the ones out there. Yes we know you hate bards.

And screw you for bringing up the laid off folks. That sucks every time. I made sure all my people landed in other jobs real quick. None of my 'casualties' are unemployed, just sadly not employed by Turbine. Every business goes through this.Even Valve has layoffs. It sucks every time. If you haven't had to do it then you just don't know. Picking people and knowing you are about to turn their life upside down is terrible, every time.
Not giving a bleep. No, I stop listening when the bile starts. Not worth my sanity. You know my rule, treat me like a human and I'll do the same back. When the rage train starts...cya.
So here is my peace out of the vault for a while. Thanks for the list Ranger, that was actually clear and helpful.
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Re: Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't
Reply #17 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 6:50pm
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Bazinga wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 6:21pm:
MajMal replied and they were aware and he asked that we cross fingers in the future

http://www.ddovault.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1331833498/11#11
  
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Re: Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't
Reply #18 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 7:16pm
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Bazinga wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 6:21pm:
MajMal replied and they were aware and he asked that we cross fingers in the future


You're fucking slow.

Also, Arkat ninja'd me, but I'm leaving this here.
  
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Re: Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't
Reply #19 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 9:01am
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Was able to test this last night to some degree and was amazed that it is actually true.

We were 2 manning 5th level Elite Streak quests on our TRs and we were getting that "frozen for 5 second" lag.

Did the /loc and every time were in i2049 when it happened.    3 of the 6 quests we did were in i2049 and those were the only ones we had this horrible lag.
  
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Re: Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't
Reply #20 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 11:58am
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10 plat says they remove this information from the /loc output client-side after their "fix" doesn't work.
  
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Re: Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't
Reply #21 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 3:40pm
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bob the builder wrote on Mar 16th, 2012 at 9:01am:
Was able to test this last night to some degree and was amazed that it is actually true.

We were 2 manning 5th level Elite Streak quests on our TRs and we were getting that "frozen for 5 second" lag.

Did the /loc and every time were in i2049 when it happened.    3 of the 6 quests we did were in i2049 and those were the only ones we had this horrible lag.

Even soloing, i2050 is a little choppy, and i2049 is just terrible.
  
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Re: Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't
Reply #22 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 5:27pm
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Quote:
You're fucking slow.

Also, Arkat ninja'd me, but I'm leaving this here.


do you understand how this makes you look like a tool?
  
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notajedi wrote on Mar 14th, 2013 at 6:47pm:
JonnyD has had way better exploits.
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Re: Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't
Reply #23 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 5:51pm
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Lag is obviously caused by having to service all of the /loc requests.  Tongue
  
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Re: Why is it that players find this but QA/devs don't
Reply #24 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 6:46pm
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JDollar wrote on Mar 16th, 2012 at 5:27pm:
do you understand how this makes you look like a tool?


Do you understand how little I care?
  
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