bob the builder wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 11:37am:


The gear point is pretty good.

My level 9 monk had better gear in all but two slots than the stuff he got for hitting 16.

bob the builder wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 2:02pm:

No. It's like getting a really old used car.

In this case it's like getting a 1960's Renault that only runs on leaded gasoline, can't go above second gear, and can't pass emissions tests.

It's useless to everyone except backwater hicks.

bob the builder wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 2:19pm:


Sure. And you can replace everything under the hood in an old Renault with parts from a dodge viper, leaving nothing in place but the original body panelling and windows. It doesn't make the original gift any less crappy.

Again, you analogy only makes sense if the person didn't build the toon correctly (i.e. choosing stats, skills, enhancements, dumb multiclass choices).

That's how you get the equivalent of a crappy, poorly made car.


But, you said the point about the starting gear had merit.  Nothing about noobs making bad build choices.

A toon, with good stats, skills, class choices at level 16 without any good gear is the equivalent of base model quality car.   It just doesn't have the all the awesome options.

I'm beginning to think you don't have a firm grasp on the concept of analogies.

Y

But you don't make sense:

Here's the makeup:

1) You get a toon leveled from 8 to 16 for free.
2)  They give you some gear

This is FAR from useless to most people.

All it takes is spending in-game plat to get the equipment needed.  The engine and body are fantastic.  Just need a few options to make it awesome.

to be useless would mean there was no way to fix it in an easy manner, i.e. a fucking 1965 Renault.

If you think the 8 to 16 leveling makes it useless to most people because the gear wasn't the best in the game, then I think I'm going to just ignore you from now on because clearly you are either trolling now or are just not very smart.

From what I'm seeing of people that are posting the gear they got (I'm hoping to get first hand knowledge soon (tm)), The gear is more along the lines one might expect a character having after a single Normal run through Gianthold.  However, based on hearing about a Dwarf being given a Docent, it appears that the Equipment may not be Race/Class tailored.  This will make items vendor trash/decon items. 

Lets keep this in mind, the loot should be the bear minimum one could achieve by simple looting alone on a First Life, No Sugar Daddy Character.  Not based on our months/years of acquiring gear. 

However, the 8 to 16 leveling process is much more focused per class/build as it is at this point many facets get meat.  So it would be very difficult for Turbine to come up with a one size fits all package, which is unlike the 1 to 7 Leveling process where generic gear works for just about any class.

My primary concern is for new players that are barely getting the hang of how their character works, making a jump from 8 to 16 could prevent them from understanding why they need certain abilities.  It can also cause a knowledge gap between tactics of level 8 and tactics or level 16+.  Personally I believe it is up to the Guild they belong to to help minimize this knowledge gap.  Barring that, it will fall on the real Vets to give crash courses so to speak.

But I'm willing to bet that at least 33% of these stones will be utilized on TR characters that do not need build advice or gear to succeed at level 16.

I do believe that if there were any level 8 to 15 not running elite, it is likely that at 16 they won't be running elite either.

As for the completionist  concern about someone skipping levels, lets keep this in mind.  The rate of getting XP change with Bravery Bonus (user kept up), than again with Tomes of Learning (Applied for the Lives of the Character) and now once more with a one time Jump of enough XP to take someone to 16.  Eventually things change and will change the rate someone can do something.  Honestly, I'm just glad is a Mid-level skip - Imagine if it was 1 to 16.

Epoch wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 10:23pm:


Most of the grief that I read was about players getting suddenly stoned on the "wrong" toon (and preventing them from stoning the right toon).  Also the newb won't know he doesn't have the knowledge until it is too late.

Oddly enough, my suggestion is the opposite:  you just got more than 1Mxp.  You don't need xp.  Notice how the first mob kills you?  Go run some level 12 quests until you have ML16 gear in all your slots.

Even this isn't quite right.  Due to the way large ingredients drop, a half-geared level 8 toon might just outearn an ungeared level 16.  Consider making a toon for at level harbor elites: artificer, paladin, or even a repeater fighter.

popejubal wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 12:35am:


But at least you (hopefully) learned how to play that toon on your way to 16.
What happens with the stones: New people without a fucking clue  buy Vet II, manage to somehow pike and backpack ride their way to lvl 8, get stoned and end up at lvl 16, still without a fucking clue, and with no good gear to compensate the vast lack of skill/experience.

And those same people join your lvl 16 raid flagging quests / raids.

Thus the Stone Age has begun...

Epoch wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 10:23pm:


Epoch hits the nail. I leveled a toon in Argo to 16lvl autostoning, and it took me 10 minutes and 200.000 plat to get some appropiate gear , from my bank and from the AH. So to say ready for questing normal. And tomorrow I will be crafting some more, to have something decent and be ready for hard. For elite at that lvl I am too much of a n00b, no matter what gear I have...

Throate wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 2:02am:


Yup.

Calvet wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 8:50am:


Yes but it's different when it's directly sanctioned by turbine

Like, when someone builds a shitty toon, you can hate them all you want. When they're just very very new and clueless, and take one of turbine's pre-determined paths, sure you can still hate them, but you almost can't help but feel a little bit sorry for them.

I prefer my hate undiluted 

Plus, whether fresh 16s get shit gear or not is not the scary part, the scary part is that I'm almost certain that turbine people who made those item sets actually think that that gear is at least somewhat decent

Enoach wrote on Jun 5^th, 2012 at 6:44pm:

Everyone gets a docent, a breastplate, and a robe, plus an assortment of Quality Named Items.

It's trash loot, but it's *exactly* the kind of trash loot that new players find super sexy for no reason. I would not be surprised if 90% of the puggles who jumped from 8->16 are highly satisfied with their new items.