I've also considered making him a barb.  but ruled this out immediately as he's always been a TWF.  I have a shit ton of various types of khopeshes on him.  My understanding is that TWF barbs are completely subpar.  Please correct me if I am mistaken in this...

Human or helf.

12/6/2

kensai / pally / (monk for feats if you want viable tanking)(rogue for umd / still good secondary tanking)

it's less dps than a pure fighter, but the versatility you gain makes it a worth it imo.

then make him a wizard.

my first response was to the op though, figure a good dps build with tanking options may appeal since he originally wanted to be a pally tank.

Incase you're interested, here's a rough guide I'd made up when i was considering turning my Paladin tank into a fighter.

I'd made this when i'd first read about the changes to cleave and overwhelming critical.

If I were to make it now, I'd probably go 2 rogue instead, giving up quickdraw and shield mastery.

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(12 Fighter / 6 Paladin / 2 Monk)
Hit Points: 353
Spell Points: 50

BAB: 19/19/24/29/29
Fortitude: 24
Reflex: 17
Will: 13

              Starting    Feat/Enhancement
Abilities    Base Stats    Modified Stats
(32 Point)    (Level 1)      (Level 20)
Strength           16                26
Dexterity          15                17
Constitution       14                16
Intelligence        8                10
Wisdom              8                 8
Charisma           15                17

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 18

              Starting      Feat/Enhancement
             Base Skills  Modified Skills
Skills       (Level 1)      (Level 20)
Balance            6              14
Bluff              2              5
Concentration      2              9
Diplomacy          2              5
Disable Device     n/a            n/a
Haggle             2              3
Heal               -1             -1
Hide               2              3
Intimidate         3              32
Jump               4              12
Listen             -1             -1
Move Silently      2              3
Open Lock          n/a            n/a
Perform            n/a            n/a
Repair             -1             0
Search             -1             0
Spot               3              3
Swim               3              8
Tumble             3              4
Use Magic Device   4              14

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh

Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 4 (Fighter)

Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Critical

Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw

Level 8 (Fighter)

Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 10 (Fighter)

Level 11 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

Level 14 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Improved Sunder

Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Level 16 (Paladin)

Level 17 (Paladin)

Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery

Level 19 (Paladin)

Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Paladin Saves Boost I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
 

Why wouldn't you bring stalwart as dps to raids ? Is there really that big damage difference between twf kensei and stalwart ? I got shit ton of khops too and I WANT survivability, these days i basically don't group and just do some epic hard shit.
I got 20 stalwart in dread ( sense weakness,hjeal spring and magister dodge )
Haste boost 4 + human versa 4 with 46-50 str dual wielding drow or ml 20 hbglobs khops can count as dps
Imp trip, stunning blow( vertigo and stunning drow khops, just need to find stupid combat mastery Dun robar ), cleaves some 80 ac twf in dread ( 110 ish with shield ). If I need to tank, i just grab sentinel ( 160+ ac and 130 prr) ..And she has no fail hjealscrolls for 250ish a pop.

Felgor wrote on Nov 7^th, 2012 at 10:30pm:


*nods*

I really enjoyed getting licoricewhip up about 54 str twf in stalwart.  In situations where you want to have aggro it's great with the right weaponry.

My observation has been when comparing to others who are similarly geared he fell behind significantly.  It was enough to keep up with the pack, but not stand out in any way.  At least until some Pit Fiend or Marilith showed up.

The problem for me, I don't talk is that I don't solo with Licoricewhip as much anymore.  I don't tank raids with him as it's not needed 99.9% of the time.  So, I lumber behind everyone hoping to catch up before the quest is over. 

The intent in building him was run over by the xpac, which gave away droves of candy for dps builds.  So, instead of being solo only with him I'd rather tweak his contribution to the parties that have me along.  Worst thing you can have in a situation where things need to die fast - a tank.

Madcow430 wrote on Nov 8^th, 2012 at 4:21am:


Exactly. Even evasion tanks use shields if built to tank now, so the twf fun of the build is gone. My opinion is, well built Monks are the best hybrid for tanking/trash dps, it started a few updates ago and just got better with the dodge changes.

I'm not a fan of wraps so I just stuck with khopesh's.

I'll be honest, Splat is nowhere near as forgiving as a Kensei as she was a DoS, but much more fun in groups. Playing catchup as you said is a real downer.

Even so, I run 10% incorp, 14% dodge (should be 17 with dodge +2 mobility trinket) and 13prr. Then displace scrolls/clickies. Rad2+Acid/Elec/Acid Khopesh is really nice CC added with trip and stun, and Momentum Swing in Dreadnaught.

If you like a bit of ranged action, 12/6/2 fighter ranger rogue is what Smrti had and when you add FE, rams might, manyshot, lvl11 resists when in Fury of the Wild, it is ultimately better I think. Overall dps is neck and neck but better self sufficiency and a ranged option. Personally I prefer fulltime melee and most resists covered on gear.

I don't see the point in pure fighter when 2 rogue or 2 monk gives so much.

I find this gear pretty robust:

3 piece abishai (helm, cloak, boots) swaps for firestorm greaves, fom boots, cloak of ice etc
Claw set
dun robar +2str +10 stun 4% dodge
epic ring of the stalker(10% incorp, +3 exc SA, +6 seeker, GFL slotted)
challenge belt (+2 gl and +6 wisdom slotted)
Tharnes/hp item/Epic time sensing for haste/displace clicky
Greater Bold Trinket/dodge+2 of mobility/PLIS/Epic Brawns
Epic Grims (7str +1str slotted, 3% dodge)/ displace clicky/tod necklace for +2 boosts

My fave weapons right now are acid/elec/acid + fire/fire/TBD alchemical khopeshes, or rad2+acid/elec/acid.

Felgor wrote on Nov 7^th, 2012 at 10:30pm:

Swap from your human dos to helf kensei or you tried helf stalwart too ?
Quote:

EH yes, but you are right, the difference is smaller in EE if you are permadisplaced and ghostly.
Quote:

More boosts and what .. 10 damage from feats and enhancements are awesome, but worth more than prr, some 400 hp and ability to swap to sword and board when needed. I don't know I guess you are right.
Quote:

EE is perhaps 10 percent for me and I like to tank ToD and crap now and then ( which frankly are worse than ever lol ).
Quote:
I guess it's different for a pally, I couldn't stand having no tactics, haste boost, lack of feats and goddamn slow divine power and div sacrifice carpal syndrome . If they ever change divine sacrifice I would try something like Cashiry's kotc which he posted few days ago in a heartbeat.
Quote:

Do you have precision and/or twist more fort bypass for raids ?

Felgor wrote on Nov 8^th, 2012 at 9:19am:


I thought smrti was 2 monk with the rogue for the helf dilitante.

I run a 12/6/2 fighter/ranger/rogue with the monk dilitante (heal amp) and it's fun. 

I completely skipped ac, run smoke II, and dusk (not sure if dusk gets an extra roll on concealment) and eventually ghostly when I get around to it.  I can no fail heal scrolls with a gear swap.

Felgor wrote on Nov 8^th, 2012 at 9:50pm:


That was a factor for me (and that I wanted to be chaotic neutral for alignment).

I didn't think they did stack,  but was planning on making ring of the stalker anyway.

Felgor wrote on Nov 8^th, 2012 at 9:50pm:


Two feats is huge though, my 12/6/2 stayed with the 2 monk for the evasion splash and almost always wears armor.  Builds like this try to fit 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag and I just couldn't do it with 2 less feats.

Aren't they supposedly fixing UMD lag at some point? Only checking UMD at the beginning of quests and after shrining, or something?