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kierg10
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Re: TWF viable post update 19?
Reply #25 - Aug 29th, 2013 at 1:41pm
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Well, I LR'd my juggernaut into a fighter 12 monk 6 artie 2 (sadly only level 18 when I LR'd, so only 10 fighter levels for now)

I like it, I would have gone with 2 rog splash but I am pretty sure can't count as having more than 3 classes so I stuck with 2 artie levels for traps and stuff (and +3 will save ain't half bad).

Surprisingly I didn't lose much in saves (even gained a bit), my saves are very similar (although maybe a bit weaker in reflex, at level 20 juggernaut is 14 14 13 vs. my build's 16 13 13, although it would be mighty different if I coulda splashed the 2 rogue instead of 2 artie, although I think for all intents and purposes +3 will save is > than +3 reflex save atm for this build)

Although for my saves I invested in a bit of cha (got up to 12 on a wf) and dumped wis, so I took force of personality to boost my saves because I had a spare feat.....and I think the synergy of being able to invest in cha slotting/stat points/tomes for UMD AND will saves is convenient.....

I use khopeshes centred while in earth stance, so the damage is nice.......

Shadow fade is great....I take very little damage, also quick question since I'm unsure....if you have a ghostly item and shadow fade does it check against shadow fade AND ghostly or just one?

So I basically take very little damage (self healing is eased that way), I deal a lot of damage, my saves are good, I have good trap skills....and it's lots of fun to play.....I'll prob post the build after I test it out in epics, but what I do know is that it is very fun now with a lit 2 khope and an unfinished lit 2 khope.......so I kinda can't wait for fury+a pair of drow khopeshes......

The stats I kinda balanced out to fit in things like umd AND trap skills AND health (actually pretty nice health, went up from juggernaut definitely lol) AND stunning blow AND damage AND twf......so it is a bit spread out......and the int is prob a bit high, but it was the only way I could fit in search and disable and umd.....stupid low fighter skill numbers....but whatever, it works very well, and I don't feel very disadvantaged for having to go 16 14 14 16 6 12 for stats.....ya 10 points into int.....2+3 int for skills=enough for 2 per level into DD and search + 1 for UMd......and I can reach 40 UMD easily enough......so tensers and true seeing and heal scrolls are good....

tbh this build would prob be better as human or helf, but I was a jugg already and want to keep this character at cap instead of TRing again so I can level up some other builds I have parked.....
  

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Re: TWF viable post update 19?
Reply #26 - Aug 29th, 2013 at 2:25pm
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kierg10 wrote on Aug 29th, 2013 at 1:41pm:
Well, I LR'd my juggernaut into a fighter 12 monk 6 artie 2 (sadly only level 18 when I LR'd, so only 10 fighter levels for now)

I like it, I would have gone with 2 rog splash but I am pretty sure can't count as having more than 3 classes so I stuck with 2 artie levels for traps and stuff (and +3 will save ain't half bad).

Surprisingly I didn't lose much in saves (even gained a bit), my saves are very similar (although maybe a bit weaker in reflex, at level 20 juggernaut is 14 14 13 vs. my build's 16 13 13, although it would be mighty different if I coulda splashed the 2 rogue instead of 2 artie, although I think for all intents and purposes +3 will save is > than +3 reflex save atm for this build)

Although for my saves I invested in a bit of cha (got up to 12 on a wf) and dumped wis, so I took force of personality to boost my saves because I had a spare feat.....and I think the synergy of being able to invest in cha slotting/stat points/tomes for UMD AND will saves is convenient.....

I use khopeshes centred while in earth stance, so the damage is nice.......

Shadow fade is great....I take very little damage, also quick question since I'm unsure....if you have a ghostly item and shadow fade does it check against shadow fade AND ghostly or just one?

So I basically take very little damage (self healing is eased that way), I deal a lot of damage, my saves are good, I have good trap skills....and it's lots of fun to play.....I'll prob post the build after I test it out in epics, but what I do know is that it is very fun now with a lit 2 khope and an unfinished lit 2 khope.......so I kinda can't wait for fury+a pair of drow khopeshes......

The stats I kinda balanced out to fit in things like umd AND trap skills AND health (actually pretty nice health, went up from juggernaut definitely lol) AND stunning blow AND damage AND twf......so it is a bit spread out......and the int is prob a bit high, but it was the only way I could fit in search and disable and umd.....stupid low fighter skill numbers....but whatever, it works very well, and I don't feel very disadvantaged for having to go 16 14 14 16 6 12 for stats.....ya 10 points into int.....2+3 int for skills=enough for 2 per level into DD and search + 1 for UMd......and I can reach 40 UMD easily enough......so tensers and true seeing and heal scrolls are good....

tbh this build would prob be better as human or helf, but I was a jugg already and want to keep this character at cap instead of TRing again so I can level up some other builds I have parked.....


Ya that sounds exactly what I want for my guy(the 34 point human 12 fighter 7 rogue 1 barb TWF w/khopesh & 1 nightmare)

I want trapping/umd & some tactics/DPS, still would like to be min/maxed as much as possible but not necessarily for EE.

My crazy idea was: 11 ranger 7 rogue 2 fighter? Just throwing ideas out there though...Cheers!

Def post the build when your rdy!
  
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Re: TWF viable post update 19?
Reply #27 - Aug 29th, 2013 at 2:36pm
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TractorsareEpic wrote on Aug 29th, 2013 at 2:25pm:
Ya that sounds exactly what I want for my guy(the 34 point human 12 fighter 7 rogue 1 barb TWF w/khopesh & 1 nightmare)

I want trapping/umd & some tactics/DPS, still would like to be min/maxed as much as possible but not necessarily for EE.

My crazy idea was: 11 ranger 7 rogue 2 fighter? Just throwing ideas out there though...Cheers!

Def post the build when your rdy!



I will definitely post the build when I experiment in epics a bit....so shouldn't be more than a few days depending on if I get myself capped.
  

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Re: TWF viable post update 19?
Reply #28 - Aug 30th, 2013 at 3:18am
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kierg10 wrote on Aug 29th, 2013 at 1:41pm:
Shadow fade is great....I take very little damage, also quick question since I'm unsure....if you have a ghostly item and shadow fade does it check against shadow fade AND ghostly or just one?


Just one check, same "stat"
  
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Re: TWF viable post update 19?
Reply #29 - Aug 30th, 2013 at 5:05am
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kierg10 wrote on Aug 29th, 2013 at 1:41pm:
Well, I LR'd my juggernaut into a fighter 12 monk 6 artie 2 (sadly only level 18 when I LR'd, so only 10 fighter levels for now)

I like it, I would have gone with 2 rog splash but I am pretty sure can't count as having more than 3 classes so I stuck with 2 artie levels for traps and stuff (and +3 will save ain't half bad).

Surprisingly I didn't lose much in saves (even gained a bit), my saves are very similar (although maybe a bit weaker in reflex, at level 20 juggernaut is 14 14 13 vs. my build's 16 13 13, although it would be mighty different if I coulda splashed the 2 rogue instead of 2 artie, although I think for all intents and purposes +3 will save is > than +3 reflex save atm for this build)

Although for my saves I invested in a bit of cha (got up to 12 on a wf) and dumped wis, so I took force of personality to boost my saves because I had a spare feat.....and I think the synergy of being able to invest in cha slotting/stat points/tomes for UMD AND will saves is convenient.....

I use khopeshes centred while in earth stance, so the damage is nice.......

Shadow fade is great....I take very little damage, also quick question since I'm unsure....if you have a ghostly item and shadow fade does it check against shadow fade AND ghostly or just one?

So I basically take very little damage (self healing is eased that way), I deal a lot of damage, my saves are good, I have good trap skills....and it's lots of fun to play.....I'll prob post the build after I test it out in epics, but what I do know is that it is very fun now with a lit 2 khope and an unfinished lit 2 khope.......so I kinda can't wait for fury+a pair of drow khopeshes......

The stats I kinda balanced out to fit in things like umd AND trap skills AND health (actually pretty nice health, went up from juggernaut definitely lol) AND stunning blow AND damage AND twf......so it is a bit spread out......and the int is prob a bit high, but it was the only way I could fit in search and disable and umd.....stupid low fighter skill numbers....but whatever, it works very well, and I don't feel very disadvantaged for having to go 16 14 14 16 6 12 for stats.....ya 10 points into int.....2+3 int for skills=enough for 2 per level into DD and search + 1 for UMd......and I can reach 40 UMD easily enough......so tensers and true seeing and heal scrolls are good....

tbh this build would prob be better as human or helf, but I was a jugg already and want to keep this character at cap instead of TRing again so I can level up some other builds I have parked.....


Sorry, how it is that you are centered with khopeshes? I thought it was only possible with kamas, quaterstaff and so on.
  
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Re: TWF viable post update 19?
Reply #30 - Aug 30th, 2013 at 5:45am
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Sorry, how it is that you are centered with khopeshes? I thought it was only possible with kamas, quaterstaff and so on.


Kensai
  
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Re: TWF viable post update 19?
Reply #31 - Aug 30th, 2013 at 5:57am
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Sham wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 5:45am:
Kensai


Wow, didnīt know that. Very interesting. I was searching in Monk and not in Fighter.

I think I will LR my fighter in this. Looks greats. Thanks, Kierg.
  
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Re: TWF viable post update 19?
Reply #32 - Aug 30th, 2013 at 10:26am
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Wow, didnīt know that. Very interesting. I was searching in Monk and not in Fighter.

I think I will LR my fighter in this. Looks greats. Thanks, Kierg.


no problem, I do think this build will work well in epics, and once I experiment at cap for like an hour (which will be today or tomorrow, I'm like 300k from 20) I should have a rough idea how things will work out.

also azog I'm pretty sure you play on argo so if you have any questions about the build send a tell to me, I'll either be on dragonbloodz or ckarlock....

edit: lol i typed "pretty sure you play on azog" instead of argo.....apparently when I have just woken up I can't type xD
« Last Edit: Aug 30th, 2013 at 10:35am by kierg10 »  

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Re: TWF viable post update 19?
Reply #33 - Aug 30th, 2013 at 10:33am
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Just one check, same "stat"


thanks, wasn't sure if there would be a seperate check or not.....guess i don't need my cloak of invisibility anymore, this means large guild augment time!
  

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Re: TWF viable post update 19?
Reply #34 - Aug 30th, 2013 at 11:07am
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kierg10 wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 10:26am:
no problem, I do think this build will work well in epics, and once I experiment at cap for like an hour (which will be today or tomorrow, I'm like 300k from 20) I should have a rough idea how things will work out.

also azog I'm pretty sure you play on argo so if you have any questions about the build send a tell to me, I'll either be on dragonbloodz or ckarlock....

edit: lol i typed "pretty sure you play on azog" instead of argo.....apparently when I have just woken up I can't type xD


Thanks a lot. I almost have no time, but I will try.
BTW,  the leveling I guess should be arti/f/f/f/.../m/m/...arti for maxing out traps.
How do you do for GTWF? 14 + 3 Dex tome? I only had a +2 dex, but I guess I can get easily a +3.
  
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Re: TWF viable post update 19?
Reply #35 - Aug 30th, 2013 at 11:44am
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Thanks a lot. I almost have no time, but I will try.
BTW,  the leveling I guess should be arti/f/f/f/.../m/m/...arti for maxing out traps.
How do you do for GTWF? 14 + 3 Dex tome? I only had a +2 dex, but I guess I can get easily a +3.


ya i went 14+3 tome, and I went 1 artie 2-7 monk because I needed to swap out two levels of ranger for levels of monk so I could  take fighter levels, and it doesn't really matter....I started with 16 int so I have enough points to completely max out search and DD and have one point in UMD no matter what.

I just need a search tome.
  

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Re: TWF viable post update 19?
Reply #36 - Aug 30th, 2013 at 1:53pm
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kierg10 wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 11:44am:
ya i went 14+3 tome, and I went 1 artie 2-7 monk because I needed to swap out two levels of ranger for levels of monk so I could  take fighter levels, and it doesn't really matter....I started with 16 int so I have enough points to completely max out search and DD and have one point in UMD no matter what.

I just need a search tome.


I have an 8fighter/8monk helf right now similar to this.  I've got him dex based swinging DAxes instead of khopeshes though (I just happened to have more DAxes around, so I picked those).  I think he's at 50% miss chance for level based on AC, 21% dodge, using dex for hit/damage with the DAxes staying centered.

I'm hoping I get to play him out a bit to level (to 12 fighter/8 monk) and see how I like him.  IF it's bunk I have the +20 heart sitting there.
  
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Re: TWF viable post update 19?
Reply #37 - Aug 30th, 2013 at 2:28pm
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hgm-chi wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 1:53pm:
I have an 8fighter/8monk helf right now similar to this.  I've got him dex based swinging DAxes instead of khopeshes though (I just happened to have more DAxes around, so I picked those).  I think he's at 50% miss chance for level based on AC, 21% dodge, using dex for hit/damage with the DAxes staying centered.

I'm hoping I get to play him out a bit to level (to 12 fighter/8 monk) and see how I like him.  IF it's bunk I have the +20 heart sitting there.



I went with str because....well I like str to dmg more ;P

and I find that 8 monk is a bit more than you need, 6 monk and 2 something is better.
  

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Re: TWF viable post update 19?
Reply #38 - Aug 30th, 2013 at 3:55pm
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kierg10 wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 2:28pm:
I went with str because....well I like str to dmg more ;P

and I find that 8 monk is a bit more than you need, 6 monk and 2 something is better.


He had 2 Pally in him but I used a +3 heart I had to get rid of those and test out the monk/fighter.  If I like it (or don't like it) the +20 heart will fix/improve him.

The dex thing... that was because I wanted to see if the Ninja Spy stuff was serious when it said "piercing or slashing" weapons, and didn't really mean light weapons.  While it is fun having a single stat that improves hit, damage, and AC I'm not sure it's worth the loss of Power Attack -> Overwhleming Crit.
  
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Re: TWF viable post update 19?
Reply #39 - Aug 30th, 2013 at 4:50pm
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Thanks a lot. I almost have no time, but I will try.
BTW,  the leveling I guess should be arti/f/f/f/.../m/m/...arti for maxing out traps.
How do you do for GTWF? 14 + 3 Dex tome? I only had a +2 dex, but I guess I can get easily a +3.


If you don't find one, hit me up on Ysharan, Isharan, or Esharan.  I should have a few extra +3 dex tomes.
  

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Re: TWF viable post update 19?
Reply #40 - Aug 30th, 2013 at 10:57pm
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hgm-chi wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 3:55pm:
He had 2 Pally in him but I used a +3 heart I had to get rid of those and test out the monk/fighter.  If I like it (or don't like it) the +20 heart will fix/improve him.

The dex thing... that was because I wanted to see if the Ninja Spy stuff was serious when it said "piercing or slashing" weapons, and didn't really mean light weapons.  While it is fun having a single stat that improves hit, damage, and AC I'm not sure it's worth the loss of Power Attack -> Overwhleming Crit.



right, I can see why you would want to test that, and the only reason i would go 2 pal over 2 art or rog is if I could tr into a bladeforged iconic and get the reconstruct SLA.

I like heal scrolls.
  

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Re: TWF viable post update 19?
Reply #41 - Aug 30th, 2013 at 11:50pm
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kierg10 wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 10:57pm:
right, I can see why you would want to test that, and the only reason i would go 2 pal over 2 art or rog is if I could tr into a bladeforged iconic and get the reconstruct SLA.

I like heal scrolls.


I use the cleric dil on my helf and get heal scrolls either way.  UMD would be nicer for everything else, though, and then rogue dil would give me some extra damage.  So many choices.

I used my +20 heart on my drow pally and turned her into a pure 20 ranger, dex based again.  I'm very interested in seeing how all the double strike/offhand/+1 dam for dual wielding works out.
  
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Re: TWF viable post update 19?
Reply #42 - Aug 31st, 2013 at 10:20am
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hgm-chi wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 11:50pm:
I use the cleric dil on my helf and get heal scrolls either way.  UMD would be nicer for everything else, though, and then rogue dil would give me some extra damage.  So many choices.

I used my +20 heart on my drow pally and turned her into a pure 20 ranger, dex based again.  I'm very interested in seeing how all the double strike/offhand/+1 dam for dual wielding works out.


hm interesting, I also have a (gimp ass) drow paladin, might be a good idea to lr him into something like that.....hmmmmmm......
  

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Re: TWF viable post update 19?
Reply #43 - Sep 1st, 2013 at 7:10pm
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Okay here is the build I was running for TWF (I'm actually TRing again like tomorrow morning, but that is because I have no motivation to play anything at end game)

Warforged (lr'd a juggernaut into this, helf or human might be better) Fighter 12/Monk 6/Artificer 2

Str 16+level ups
Dex 14+3 tome
Con 14
Int 15 (for enough skills for search/disable/umd, 2/2/1 points per fighter lvl with a +1 int tome)
Wis 6 (fuck wisdom)
Charisma 13

(36 point build obviously, and yes the stats are very well rounded....much better for such a character to be well rounded for the purpose it plays)

level progression:
1 artie
2-7 monk
8-9 fighter
10 artie
11-20 fighter

feats:
1-force of personality (because fuck wisdom)
2M-power attack
3M-TWF
3-cleave
6-weapon focus slashing
7M-dodge
8F-stunning blow
9F-Khopesh proficiency
9-Great cleave
12f-ITWF
12-Master of forms
14f-gtwf
15-IC:slash
16f- gwf:slash
18f-WS:slash
18-grandmaster of forms
20f-GWS:slash
21-OC
24-honestly I didn't figure out anything for this level
27-Blinding speed

Saves breakdown for class+base stat:
Fort: 0 artie+8 fighter+5 monk+2 con=15
Reflex: 0 artie+4 fighter+5 monk+2 dex=11 (reflex is a bit weak, so you can go with rogue 2 splash which is a +3 reflex  in place of artie's +3 will, but I had to choose artie cause LRing triple classes BS...so this would be 14 with rogue splash)
Will: 3 artie+4 fighter+5 monk+1 stat=13 (or 10 if you go rogue splash instead)

  

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Re: TWF viable post update 19?
Reply #44 - Sep 1st, 2013 at 10:21pm
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No perfect TWF?
  
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Re: TWF viable post update 19?
Reply #45 - Sep 1st, 2013 at 11:45pm
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Ok, a Warforged. For a Human would be better a rogue, for some skill points and some sneak attack, maybe?

Putting into charisma, then you wonīt have any AC through Wisdom, am I right?
  
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Re: TWF viable post update 19?
Reply #46 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 12:07am
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tachyon wrote on Sep 1st, 2013 at 10:21pm:
No perfect TWF?


perfect twf was a lvl 26 or 28 ed feat i believe.....realistically i was never gonna really play this past lvl 21/22 so i really wouldnt't have even bothered planning for all that crap after
  

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Re: TWF viable post update 19?
Reply #47 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 12:12am
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Ok, a Warforged. For a Human would be better a rogue, for some skill points and some sneak attack, maybe?

Putting into charisma, then you wonīt have any AC through Wisdom, am I right?



for the first point, human would allow you to invest in less int, as you would get +1 skill.....also the feat would be nice.....warforged was just necessitated by the character i was lring......rogue i woulda taken 9 times out of 10 if i hadnt needed to lr a 3 class character into this.....lower will save is easiest to make up for, and the rogue has more ref and less will than the artie version. also sneak attack aint bad.

on point 2: cha and dump will let's me combine +will save with +umd with force of personality......and fuck ac xD i will probably never reach a reasonable number on this build, and you would need to sacrifice too much to get it....and yes you are right Smiley
« Last Edit: Sep 2nd, 2013 at 12:13am by kierg10 »  

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Re: TWF viable post update 19?
Reply #48 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 12:19am
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Ok, fuck AC sounds good to me. I was a bit stressed thinking about how to reach a high AC.

Anyway, it will take some weeks until I redo my character (I have some others), so lot of time to think at work.
  
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Re: TWF viable post update 19?
Reply #49 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 12:43am
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Ok, fuck AC sounds good to me. I was a bit stressed thinking about how to reach a high AC.

Anyway, it will take some weeks until I redo my character (I have some others), so lot of time to think at work.


tbh with shadow fade on top of dodge (I reached a 13 dodge with nothing in the way of a dodge item equipped, so you could easily reach 23+ dodge) on top of perma blur (maybe displace clickies?) on top of maybe around 29 prr (15 mountain stance (?) plus 14 prr augment) defense is more than covered.

honestly if i had stayed at end game this build prob woulda done really well (although maybe better as human with 2 rogue splash), but atm i find no motivation to stay capped on that character......
  

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