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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) New raid early next year (Read 12279 times)
Groo The Wanderer
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Re: New raid early next year
Reply #25 - Sep 9th, 2013 at 11:37am
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Epic Vale would be nice for sure.  I have a feeling though it's being delayed until they can figure a way to get Premium's to pay for it.

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Asheras
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Re: New raid early next year
Reply #26 - Sep 9th, 2013 at 11:52am
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I'm torn on Epic Vale.  On one hand, GS crafting was one of the best things they did.  it created long term grind that people were OK with doing.  It was an end game all in itself.

On the other hand, it DOMINATED in terms of power.  There was a time when players would wear 3+ shroud items and have multiple GS weapons per toon.  Very few epic weapons were able to exceed the power of GS weapons, and the grind on the Epic weapons was so high that most people didn't care to try.

I'm not sure how you work in Epic Vale without wiping out all the other loot you have.  Epic ToD would bring back a great raid (possibly the best one, imo) and could be done in a way that doesn't overwhelm the existing end game gear options.  It becomes additive, not replacing.

Whatever they do, they need to make the end game raiding additive at this point.  They have to avoid invalidating CiTW, FoT, Stormhorns, Wheloon loot and they have to keep using Comms in some way.  Anything that invalidates recent loot or creates a new ingredient for crafting/upgrading will fracture the end game again.   

  
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Re: New raid early next year
Reply #27 - Sep 9th, 2013 at 12:19pm
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Time to re-spec again. Building for epic Rainbow.
  
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Groo The Wanderer
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Re: New raid early next year
Reply #28 - Sep 9th, 2013 at 1:27pm
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Honestly if they do this right what you will need to do is take a heroic Green steel item and then craft it into an Epic Greensteel item.

It should probably have 2 or 3 tiers.  Tier 1 basically ups the die of any die effects (1d6 lightning is either 2d6 or 1d8 lightning for example) and adds a slot.

Tier 2 adds 1 additional property.

Tier 3 adds another slot

This would give greensteel a decent boost without making it OP but would be worth the grind on it because it would allow you to customize the slots.

You want 2 red slots on those goggles, sure thing.  How about a Blue and a Yellow on that Maul .. help yourself!

Heck even just allowing a slot per tier instead of the extra property would be awesome as I can't think of any 3 slot items currently in the game.
  

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Re: New raid early next year
Reply #29 - Sep 9th, 2013 at 3:23pm
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Groo The Wanderer wrote on Sep 9th, 2013 at 1:27pm:
Honestly if they do this right what you will need to do is take a heroic Green steel item and then craft it into an Epic Greensteel item.

It should probably have 2 or 3 tiers.  Tier 1 basically ups the die of any die effects (1d6 lightning is either 2d6 or 1d8 lightning for example) and adds a slot.

Tier 2 adds 1 additional property.

Tier 3 adds another slot

This would give greensteel a decent boost without making it OP but would be worth the grind on it because it would allow you to customize the slots.

You want 2 red slots on those goggles, sure thing.  How about a Blue and a Yellow on that Maul .. help yourself!

Heck even just allowing a slot per tier instead of the extra property would be awesome as I can't think of any 3 slot items currently in the game.


EE Skyvault Shield and all Epic versions of the Adamantine Knuckles have 3 slots. 

However, epic GS would be cool.  I'm pretty sure they've already shown Epic Harry and some Epic GS on Lama.
  
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Re: New raid early next year
Reply #30 - Sep 9th, 2013 at 3:31pm
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Groo The Wanderer wrote on Sep 9th, 2013 at 1:27pm:
Heck even just allowing a slot per tier instead of the extra property would be awesome as I can't think of any 3 slot items currently in the game.


You're fucking useless, I only need to go back as far as epic GH to come up with five triple slot items.

Girdle of Giants' Brawn
Arkats' Cord
Adamantine Knuckles
The Mountain's Fist
Skyvault Shield
  

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Groo The Wanderer
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Re: New raid early next year
Reply #31 - Sep 9th, 2013 at 3:40pm
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Ok it would appear I need to be more specific, I was a little vague there and it appears some couldn't make the jump I did.

To be more specific I mean 3 identical Augment slots.  You know where we could choose 3 Red or Blue slots.

Basically what I am getting at is that if Greensteel gave us the ability to drop in augment slots with colors of our choosing it would make the loot relevant on the EPIC scale as it would be configurable.
  

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Re: New raid early next year
Reply #32 - Sep 9th, 2013 at 4:14pm
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I believe Adamantine Knuckles are 3 of the same slot or darn close to it. I believe mine are slotted with 3 Red augments.
  
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Re: New raid early next year
Reply #33 - Sep 9th, 2013 at 4:40pm
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Groo The Wanderer wrote on Sep 9th, 2013 at 1:27pm:
Honestly if they do this right what you will need to do is take a heroic Green steel item and then craft it into an Epic Greensteel item.

Fuck that idea in the ass with no lube.  Making players farm a heroic raid for epic raid items is ass backwards.

The item qualities in the Green Steel crafting system need to be available as augments.  If Turbine wants to make those augments only available in Epic Shroud, then that's fine with me.  Personally I'm not a fan of the Vale quests.  Epic Elite Coal Chamber?  Fuck you.

Asheras wrote on Sep 9th, 2013 at 11:52am:
ToD would bring back a great raid (possibly the best one, imo) and could be done in a way that doesn't overwhelm the existing end game gear options.

ToD is boring; it's three lame tank and spank fights.  The only technical requirement is having the tank face the boss away from the raid so no one else gets cleaved.  The Turbine raid development team needs to play other MMOs like World of Warcraft that have interesting boss fights.  We'll never see it in DDO, but I miss boss enrage timers.
  
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Re: New raid early next year
Reply #34 - Sep 9th, 2013 at 4:51pm
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Groo The Wanderer wrote on Sep 9th, 2013 at 3:40pm:
Ok it would appear I need to be more specific, I was a little vague there and it appears some couldn't make the jump I did.

To be more specific I mean 3 identical Augment slots.  You know where we could choose 3 Red or Blue slots.

Basically what I am getting at is that if Greensteel gave us the ability to drop in augment slots with colors of our choosing it would make the loot relevant on the EPIC scale as it would be configurable.


I don't think the system lets them have 3 of the exact same color.
  
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Asheras
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Re: New raid early next year
Reply #35 - Sep 9th, 2013 at 5:27pm
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Carpone wrote on Sep 9th, 2013 at 4:40pm:
  We'll never see it in DDO, but I miss boss enrage timers.


Hard enrage timers are stupid.  It just makes the raid a gear check.  Soft enrage timers, I am all for.
  
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Asheras
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Re: New raid early next year
Reply #36 - Sep 9th, 2013 at 5:29pm
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LordPiglet wrote on Sep 9th, 2013 at 4:51pm:
I don't think the system lets them have 3 of the exact same color. 


I don't think so either.  Items with 3 slots (like Knuckles) have each one a different color.  Knuckles has Red, Purple, and Orange.  You can slot 3 red augments in them, but they are not technically 3 identical slots.  The UI for assigning augments to slots does not identify by anything except color.  I would suspect it would be impossible to have 2 slots of the exact same color on one item.
  
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Carpone
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Re: New raid early next year
Reply #37 - Sep 9th, 2013 at 5:48pm
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Asheras wrote on Sep 9th, 2013 at 5:27pm:
Hard enrage timers are stupid.  It just makes the raid a gear check.  Soft enrage timers, I am all for.

Pre-EDs the game had gear checks.  Either your DPS was sufficient to kill a raid boss or casters chugged mana pots.

I find it funny that VON6 still has a 45min timer, and that one ToD flagging quest has a 2 hour timer.  It's a complete fail on the developer's part to design a raid or quest that takes that much time to complete.  They obviously never played EverQuest where that was the norm, and players despised it.
« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2013 at 5:50pm by Carpone »  
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Groo The Wanderer
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Re: New raid early next year
Reply #38 - Sep 9th, 2013 at 6:24pm
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yeah the more I think about it you are right there.  I believe it's a red, and purple and an orange so you could slot 3 reds in there.  Actually the more I think about it a lot of the gianthold stuff is red, purp and orange.

So we do have the ability to slot 3 reds, but do we have the ability to slot 3 blues?  Or slot 3 reds in say goggles?

I think it would make Greensteel useful if we could pick slots on any item.

As for requiring the heroic grind for the epic raid we don't have to require it, however if we allow a Heroic item to count as the "base" item for epic that would be good. 

Options never hurt to have after all.
  

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Re: New raid early next year
Reply #39 - Sep 9th, 2013 at 7:13pm
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Groo The Wanderer wrote on Sep 9th, 2013 at 6:24pm:
So we do have the ability to slot 3 reds, but do we have the ability to slot 3 blues?  Or slot 3 reds in say goggles?


I sincerely doubt you will ever see Red/Orange/Purple slots on anything but Weapons and shields, since you can be reliably sure that Turbine didn't code any sanity checks into the slotting mechanism. A player might be able to rationalize a Ruby of Superior Shock becoming a guard if slotted into goggles, but the item only has the weapon's on-hit proc coded to it and at best will do nothing if slotted into a non-weapon. While we may want those slots for spellpower in non-weapon items, the on-hit procs mean we can't have it.

  
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Asheras
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Re: New raid early next year
Reply #40 - Sep 9th, 2013 at 9:46pm
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Carpone wrote on Sep 9th, 2013 at 5:48pm:
Pre-EDs the game had gear checks.  Either your DPS was sufficient to kill a raid boss or casters chugged mana pots.

I find it funny that VON6 still has a 45min timer, and that one ToD flagging quest has a 2 hour timer.  It's a complete fail on the developer's part to design a raid or quest that takes that much time to complete.  They obviously never played EverQuest where that was the norm, and players despised it.


When the cap was 10-14 the 45 min timer was more necessary.  It's been a long time since the timer mattered.   VoN is actually a great example of mechanics that prevent stupid people from completing.  The bridges breaking or the fire ele eggs spawning both provide examples of soft enrage timers.  Back before MoTU, you could fail Epic 6 if people had their head in their ass when doing the bases.  I'd imagine you still can on EE, but nobody runs EE. 
  
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Re: New raid early next year
Reply #41 - Sep 9th, 2013 at 10:57pm
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Asheras wrote on Sep 9th, 2013 at 9:46pm:
When the cap was 10-14 the 45 min timer was more necessary.  It's been a long time since the timer mattered.   VoN is actually a great example of mechanics that prevent stupid people from completing.  The bridges breaking or the fire ele eggs spawning both provide examples of soft enrage timers.  Back before MoTU, you could fail Epic 6 if people had their head in their ass when doing the bases.  I'd imagine you still can on EE, but nobody runs EE. 

I love the bridge, pillar and egg mechanic in VON6.  It punishes dumbasses but rewards teamwork.  DDO content needs more of that.  The actual Velah fight is a snoozefest; it's too fucking predictable.
  
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Re: New raid early next year
Reply #42 - Sep 10th, 2013 at 9:37am
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Carpone wrote on Sep 9th, 2013 at 4:40pm:
The item qualities in the Green Steel crafting system need to be available as augments.  If Turbine wants to make those augments only available in Epic Shroud, then that's fine with me. 


That idea is brilliant.  Epic Shroud lets you craft a Lightning-Strike Red augment . . . or something like that.  I'd farm the fuck out of it.
  
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Re: New raid early next year
Reply #43 - Sep 10th, 2013 at 9:50am
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Carpone wrote on Sep 9th, 2013 at 10:57pm:
I love the bridge, pillar and egg mechanic in VON6.  It punishes dumbasses but rewards teamwork.  DDO content needs more of that.  The actual Velah fight is a snoozefest; it's too fucking predictable.


Agreed.  Von6 is still one of my favorite raids just because of the above.  I used to love running it on Epic.  (Before there were EN/EH/EE).  Even though the Velah part was a snooze fest.  The only interesting parts in the Velah portion was that 99% of toons could not stay in on fire, so that mattered to call it out.  A bad kiter could mess up the reavers.  If you had enough DPS you could avoid eggs entirely. 

If Velah moved around like the Truthful One and took to the air and rained fire on you and such, it would be even better. 

If you didn't kill the eggs and the fire eles spawned and the fire eles either (1) buffed Velah's damage until they were dead or (2) gave her a regen until they were dead or (3) both then the raid would be more challenging as well. 

I like mechanics that make you split the party up and accomplish multiple objectives at the same time to avoid negative consequences.  It makes it much harder to have dead weight in the group.  I want a raid to NEED at least 8-10 competent players to be successful.  It's virtually impossible for 1 boss to engage all 12 players without it turning into a boring beat down.

My favorite part of FoT is the first part when there are 3 dragons, 3 giants and adds popping up regularly.  It's chaotic and its fun. 

ToD kinda does this in part 3.  You have Horoth.  You have Suulu.  You have Orthons.  A good group makes it pretty routine, especially with current gear, but when the raid came out?  Part 3, especially on elite, was challenging. 

I really think raids would be better if they didn't have 3 difficulty settings.  They are Raids.  They should only be runnable on Elite.  And the failure rate of pugs should be 50% or more.  The loot should be correspondingly worth it.  +4 and +5 tome drops.  Loot that you can't buy (With TP or on the AH) that is far superior to anything Loot Gen.  Even if the loot gen is 4-5 levels higher. 

« Last Edit: Sep 10th, 2013 at 9:51am by Asheras »  
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Re: New raid early next year
Reply #44 - Sep 10th, 2013 at 9:57am
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I wouldn't mine Epic Shroud and the greensteel effect augments. I would not really be into getting actual epic greensteel weapons. We would be back to the days when everyone had weapons that looked identical.
At least there is cosmetic armor now. But remember when everyone wore DT armor and carried GS kopeshes?
  
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Re: New raid early next year
Reply #45 - Sep 10th, 2013 at 2:35pm
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Pathetic.
  
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Re: New raid early next year
Reply #46 - Sep 10th, 2013 at 2:47pm
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Didn't they learn from the Necropolis?!?!

4 parts to the Necro series, and no one like them... a big reasone being the fucking undead!
  
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Re: New raid early next year
Reply #47 - Sep 10th, 2013 at 2:48pm
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bob the builder wrote on Sep 10th, 2013 at 2:47pm:
Didn't they learn from the Necropolis?!?!

4 parts to the Necro series, and no one like them... a big reasone being the fucking undead!


But now they have Ghostbane...
  
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Re: New raid early next year
Reply #48 - Sep 10th, 2013 at 3:23pm
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bob the builder wrote on Sep 10th, 2013 at 2:47pm:
Didn't they learn from the Necropolis?!?!

4 parts to the Necro series, and no one like them... a big reasone being the fucking undead!


^^ this. Undead fucking suck. I hate them even on characters like clerics favoured souls wizards and sorcs who are really good at dealing with them.

FUCK UNDEAD.
  

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Re: New raid early next year
Reply #49 - Sep 10th, 2013 at 3:45pm
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kierg10 wrote on Sep 10th, 2013 at 3:23pm:
FUCK UNDEAD.


if you were in the brothel, and the zombie was cheaper, would you?
  
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