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aDifferentHandle
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WF Melee FVS
Dec 4th, 2013 at 4:53am
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I think that I'll enjoy using a SoS on a WF Warpriest, and I'd like to get to know the FVS class better (haven't played one so far).

The toon in question has 1 Bard Past Life and 1 Sorc Past Life, and only some +2 and +3 tomes. The build is mainly to explore the class in heroic content on an alt. When the toon is capped, I might TR immediately, or do some epics. I don't expect to do much raiding with it. BF would be more interesting than WF and I plan to buy it eventually, but for the time being, I'd like to plan a WF.

I'm currently looking at the following build:

16 Str
8 Dex
16 Con
8 Int
14 Wis
14 Cha

M1 Power Attack
1 Cleave
3 THF
6 Extend
9 ITHF
M2 Dodge (or DA)
12 IC:Slash
15 GTHF
18 Great Cleave
21 OC
24 - I think I'll TR before I hit 24.

My questions:
1. Will the Wis Score I have be enough to make still some use of Blade Barrier? Will I need Heighten and/or Maximize?
2. Skills. Apart from Concentration and Heal, are there Important skills for a FVS?
3. At cap, will this toon be enough as a Hybrid which could serve as Healer, some gearswapping provided.
4. At which level is the breaking point at which DPSing via casting is superior to meleeing?
« Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2013 at 4:56am by aDifferentHandle »  
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NOTdarth
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Re: WF Melee FVS
Reply #1 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 6:01am
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1. It will be enough for heroics but don't expect it to work on high-reflex evasionist mobs. With that said, pick up Maximize instead of Extend. What the fuck do you need extend for anyway?

2. UMD, Concentration, Spellcraft, Balance, Heal - in that order.

3. Yes. Everybody is BYOH in Epics.

4. 14, when you pick up BB (since you insist on taking M2 before 14, otherwise it would be 13)
  
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Re: WF Melee FVS
Reply #2 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 6:15am
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NOTdarth wrote on Dec 4th, 2013 at 6:01am:
1. It will be enough for heroics but don't expect it to work on high-reflex evasionist mobs. With that said, pick up Maximize instead of Extend. What the fuck do you need extend for anyway?

Haste & Blur?
  
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Re: WF Melee FVS
Reply #3 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 6:25am
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aDifferentHandle wrote on Dec 4th, 2013 at 4:53am:
4. At which level is the breaking point at which DPSing via casting is superior to meleeing?

Huh, how can you ask this ? Are all divines on Orien ( I think ) idiots ?
You are missing quicken, less wis/char , more con/str.
There is decent ( but awfully outdated ) Sirgog's Soul Survivor on motherforums.
But it's kinda weird concept, either go full retard melee ( which never made sense for "fast past life " ) or if you have max/emp/decent wis there is no point swinging weapon at all.
  
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Re: WF Melee FVS
Reply #4 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 6:30am
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If I saw a build like this running around in Orien today,
I'd tell him/her: Welcome to 2010!!!
  
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Re: WF Melee FVS
Reply #5 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 6:43am
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Alex DeLarge wrote on Dec 4th, 2013 at 6:30am:
If I saw a build like this running around in Orien today,
I'd tell him/her: Welcome to 2010!!!

Well. 2010 didnt have the DM we currently have, and no Haste, Blur and extra +5 enhancement bonus to GS.
  
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Re: WF Melee FVS
Reply #6 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 6:51am
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aDifferentHandle wrote on Dec 4th, 2013 at 6:15am:
Haste & Blur?

Don't be ridiculous.
  
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Re: WF Melee FVS
Reply #7 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 6:55am
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If you're aiming to get a Heroic past life, you'll be better off with the cloudburst or even a lit2 than a sos.

Bladebarrier in heroics is always worth casting against mobs without evasion (most of em). Maximise and empower are definately worth picking up.

Mostly pure, melee fvs have always been behind the dps curve only making up for their shortcomings with amazing self/party healing.

Now that anyone worth a damn can be self sufficient your deficiencies will be more apparent in epics than they were in the old days.

That said, you'll kill stuff just fine in LD or fury.
  
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Re: WF Melee FVS
Reply #8 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 7:28am
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So to sum up: Caster FVS or proper Melee >>> Melee FVS?

So Warpriest is a nice thing if I want to splash some saves, a bit of extra damage and healing into a proper melee build?
  
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Re: WF Melee FVS
Reply #9 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 7:37am
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To sum up: Blade Barrier > anything for heroic leveling

The sooner you get it the better.

Lvls 1 to BB whatever melee you prefer. And if you're already going with a /2 monk split I'd wait for my second monk lvl after I've gotten BB (you're welcome and you can thank me later).

Also be a fucking Warpriest till you get BB and switch your enhancements to AoV after you you pick it up.

When you get epic toys switch to Warpriest and LD since BB won't be very effective in epics.

edit: you can pick up Quicken and Empower instead of ITHF and GTHF and swap feats again when you get into epics.
« Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2013 at 7:40am by NOTdarth »  
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Re: WF Melee FVS
Reply #10 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 7:57am
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NOTdarth wrote on Dec 4th, 2013 at 7:37am:
To sum up: Blade Barrier > anything for heroic leveling

If this is the case, I don't see much reason to stick to my original plan of WF, but rather go human to go full caster. Unless it's really annoying to get to BB.

Munkenmo wrote on Dec 4th, 2013 at 6:55am:
If you're aiming to get a Heroic past life, you'll be better off with the cloudburst or even a lit2 than a sos.

It's not that clear-cut: At level 12, with a total of 40 Str, Deadly +6, WF PA enhancements FVS feats you get +51 damage on GS. At this point, (assuming no seeker item), SoS is about 7 damage per 20 attacks behind GS Lit2, ie less than 0.4 damage per attack. As the Str-score increases further (more tomes, level-ups, tenser's), this gap closes, the SoS ends up on top of the Lit2. I don't see a huge advantage of Lit2, except for obvious DR breaking and high fort mobs.

Didn't do the numbers for CB, as I'm not willing to raid for that sword.
  
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Re: WF Melee FVS
Reply #11 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 8:16am
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Speaking about pastlife build only:

Pure FvS caster (evoker) sucks donkey balls for leveling and is a pain in the ass to get to BB. Out of 7 FvS lives I did, I only did one as a pure without one or two level splashes.

With that in mind, if you go pure, make it 16 str, 14 con, 16 wis, rest between cha and int with levelups in wis.

If you're splashing, 1 monk for stances at 1, and 2 monk for evasion at 14.
  
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Re: WF Melee FVS
Reply #12 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 10:44am
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That sounds sweet. Early WP, then reset enh to caster at 12, at cap possible re-reset for silly WP fun with only 5 points of Str short. No OC, though, but /shrug.
  
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Re: WF Melee FVS
Reply #13 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 10:56am
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I ran ~6 fvs TR lives as necro-focus + melee. Drop Blade Barrier, Slay Living/Destruction anything that won't run through the bb, melee whatever lived through the bb. Melee+dot bosses.

I effing love Cloudburst for cleaning up packs of mobs. Hard to beat that high proc rate sonic burst.
  
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Re: WF Melee FVS
Reply #14 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 11:19am
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cdr wrote on Dec 4th, 2013 at 10:56am:
I ran ~6 fvs TR lives as necro-focus + melee. Drop Blade Barrier, Slay Living/Destruction anything that won't run through the bb, melee whatever lived through the bb. Melee+dot bosses.

I effing love Cloudburst for cleaning up packs of mobs. Hard to beat that high proc rate sonic burst.

Feats/Stats? I guess similar to what ABF said, less THF than my initial feat lineup, more metamagics?
« Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2013 at 11:22am by aDifferentHandle »  
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Re: WF Melee FVS
Reply #15 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 11:41am
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Melee WF FvS?

18 STR
8 DEX
20 CON
8 INT
6 WIS
6 CHA

All level-ups into STR

Don't worry about WIS and CHA. You won't be able to get the DCs where they need to be anyway if you're going Melee and you can get CHA to 19 without much, if any, trouble to be able to use those 9th level spells.


Feats

1 Adamantine Body (for the PRR and eventually the full DR 15/Adamantine)
3 Power Attack
6 Cleave
9 Great Cleave
12 Improved Crit - Slashing
15 Maximize
18 Quicken
21 Overwhelming Critical
24 Empower Healing
26 Epic Spellpower: Positive
27 Empower or Epic Damage Reduction
28 Epic Spellpower: Light or Perfect Two Handed Fighting

For spells, use pretty much all buffing and curing/healing spells. For Offensive spells, stick to Nimbus of Light, Avenging Light (SLA from Exalted Angel) twist, Searing Light, Holy Smite, and Divine Punishment.

Skills? Heal and Spellcraft

ED? Definitely stay in Legendary Dreadnaught.


Edited:
added PTHF as a feat choice at 28th level
« Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2013 at 5:54pm by Arkat »  
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Re: WF Melee FVS
Reply #16 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 12:44pm
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If you're playing at epic levels, I would splash 2 paladin or fighter after you get blade barrier. You'll enjoy it from a melee perspective at cap, and it will hardly make a difference in heroic as you will easily kill everything anyway with Blade Barrier.

an example :

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/425357-U19-False-Hope-Melee-Soul
  
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Re: WF Melee FVS
Reply #17 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 12:56pm
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Arkat wrote on Dec 4th, 2013 at 11:41am:
Melee WF FvS?
...

Wow. I think I'm going to cry a bit in the corner considering how horrible this "build" is.

2 obvious flaws in the first few lines; then I stopped reading:
18 Str, 6 CHA costs the same as 16 Str, 12 Cha, but thanks to DM, the latter has more Str.
Adamatine Body. A dodge cap of 1. Really? The loss of dodge is not worth the extra PRR.

I looked again, and I'm surprised you actually take Maximize, but not PTWF on that kind of build. I'm no rocket scientist, but I don't see how that is going to be viable.
« Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2013 at 12:58pm by aDifferentHandle »  
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Re: WF Melee FVS
Reply #18 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 1:11pm
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This is probably not a refined version of the build, since I tend to plan the first time in the planner and then wing it after - but it's the planner file I have. Also, this is obviously way prior to the enh pass.

You do not need super high STR to melee effectively. Wings + extra base run speed + sprint boost = max zerg. I'd be tempted to splash 2 barb under the current system for 10% base + 50% boost even though it means you don't get Implosion in heroic.

Code
Select All
Level 20 Neutral Good Human
(1 Barbarian \ 19 Favored Soul)

[B]                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
[U](36 Point)[/U]       [U](Level 1)[/U]             [U](Level 20)[/U][/B]
[COLOR=silver]
Strength             15                    18
Dexterity             8                    11
Constitution         15                    18
Intelligence          8                    11
Wisdom               18                    26
Charisma             12                    15[/COLOR]

[B]                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
[U]Skills[/U]           [U](Level 1)[/U]            [U](Level 20)[/U][/B]
[COLOR=silver]Balance              -1                     6
Bluff                 1                     2
Concentration         6                    26
Diplomacy             1                     2
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle                1                     2
Heal                  4                     8
Hide                 -1                     0
Intimidate            1                     4
Jump                  2                     7
Listen                4                     8
Move Silently        -1                     0
Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                     0
Search               -1                     0
Spellcraft           -1                     0
Spot                  4                     8
Swim                  2                     4
Tumble                1                    11
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a
[/COLOR]
[B][U]Level 1 (Favored Soul)[/U][/B]
[COLOR=lightblue]Feat: [/COLOR][COLOR=silver](Selected) Maximize Spell[/COLOR]
[COLOR=lightblue]Feat: [/COLOR][COLOR=silver](Human Bonus) Spell Focus: Necromancy[/COLOR]


[B][U]Level 2 (Barbarian)[/U][/B]


[B][U]Level 3 (Favored Soul)[/U][/B]
[COLOR=lightblue]Feat: [/COLOR][COLOR=silver](Selected) Past Life: Berserker's Fury[/COLOR]


[B][U]Level 4 (Favored Soul)[/U][/B]


[B][U]Level 5 (Favored Soul)[/U][/B]


[B][U]Level 6 (Favored Soul)[/U][/B]
[COLOR=lightblue]Feat: [/COLOR][COLOR=silver](Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Fire[/COLOR]
[COLOR=lightblue]Feat: [/COLOR][COLOR=silver](Selected) Past Life: Arcane Initiate[/COLOR]


[B][U]Level 7 (Favored Soul)[/U][/B]


[B][U]Level 8 (Favored Soul)[/U][/B]


[B][U]Level 9 (Favored Soul)[/U][/B]
[COLOR=lightblue]Feat: [/COLOR][COLOR=silver](Selected) Quicken Spell[/COLOR]


[B][U]Level 10 (Favored Soul)[/U][/B]


[B][U]Level 11 (Favored Soul)[/U][/B]
[COLOR=lightblue]Feat: [/COLOR][COLOR=silver](Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Acid[/COLOR]


[B][U]Level 12 (Favored Soul)[/U][/B]
[COLOR=lightblue]Feat: [/COLOR][COLOR=silver](Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy[/COLOR]


[B][U]Level 13 (Favored Soul)[/U][/B]


[B][U]Level 14 (Favored Soul)[/U][/B]


[B][U]Level 15 (Favored Soul)[/U][/B]
[COLOR=lightblue]Feat: [/COLOR][COLOR=silver](Selected) Empower Spell[/COLOR]


[B][U]Level 16 (Favored Soul)[/U][/B]
[COLOR=lightblue]Feat: [/COLOR][COLOR=silver](Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Electricity[/COLOR]


[B][U]Level 17 (Favored Soul)[/U][/B]


[B][U]Level 18 (Favored Soul)[/U][/B]
[COLOR=lightblue]Feat: [/COLOR][COLOR=silver](Selected) Heighten Spell[/COLOR]


[B][U]Level 19 (Favored Soul)[/U][/B]


[B][U]Level 20 (Favored Soul)[/U][/B]
« Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2013 at 1:15pm by cdr »  
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Re: WF Melee FVS
Reply #19 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 4:26pm
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aDifferentHandle wrote on Dec 4th, 2013 at 6:15am:
Haste & Blur?


Blur is 1 minute per level and it's perma blur on yourself.

Extend is for Divine Favor, Divine Power, Recitation and other buffs that are > 1 min per level.

Personally, I tr'd back to bladeforged fvs, I thought about a 17/2/1 fvs/paly/wiz but will probably go 18/1/1 Fvs/Wiz/(fighter or barb).

Wiz for the EK - Eldritch Strike, and 15 hp for 3 ap isn't bad and Feat (Maximize)
Fighter would give another feat
Barb - Power Attack is only 1 ap per tier (it's 2 ap for Bladeforged PA).

Planned Feats (in no particular order) are:

Power Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave
Extend
Maximize
Empower Healing
Adamantine Body (Undecided)
Quicken
IC Slashing
Overwhelming Critical
« Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2013 at 4:29pm by LordPiglet »  
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Re: WF Melee FVS
Reply #20 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 4:39pm
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While I love the 19 Fvs/1Barb build format for heroic, I'd consider going 18Fvs/2 either monk or fighter for the feats.  You will need them.
  
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Re: WF Melee FVS
Reply #21 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 4:43pm
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i miss when 19/1 gave access to sprintboost.

TBH I don't think the bladeforged line is good enough in this case.  I'd rather stick with a horc for FVS hybrid pastlives.
« Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2013 at 5:03pm by Munkenmo »  
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Re: WF Melee FVS
Reply #22 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 5:05pm
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Munkenmo wrote on Dec 4th, 2013 at 4:43pm:
i miss when 19/1 gave access to sprintboost.


Flaw in the new enhancement system imo  Cry


cdr wrote on Dec 4th, 2013 at 1:11pm:
You do not need super high STR to melee effectively. Wings + extra base run speed + sprint boost = max zerg. I'd be tempted to splash 2 barb under the current system for 10% base + 50% boost even though it means you don't get Implosion in heroic.


Who cares about implosion in heroic... it's great yeah, but if you're smart and using twists there's already too many easy buttons to mash. I did a 14\2\2 cleric life for sprint boost\stance recall and didn't notice the lack of spells at all.
  
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Re: WF Melee FVS
Reply #23 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 5:30pm
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tachyon wrote on Dec 4th, 2013 at 5:05pm:
I did a 14\2\2 cleric life for sprint boost\stance recall and didn't notice the lack of spells at all.


There's a point, 19/1 with the flame blade feat might be my new go to until blade barrier.
  
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Re: WF Melee FVS
Reply #24 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 5:48pm
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aDifferentHandle wrote on Dec 4th, 2013 at 12:56pm:
I looked again, and I'm surprised you actually take Maximize, but not PTWF on that kind of build. I'm no rocket scientist, but I don't see how that is going to be viable.

Why would I take PTWF??? I use an Epic SoS. Did you mean PTHF?

Oh, and regarding your Adamantine Body point, this build is mostly from the days before the level cap raise to 25. I only just started leveling him again a couple days ago. He's 22 right now.

I will re-think the adamantine body thing.
« Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2013 at 5:54pm by Arkat »  
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