For the sake of completeness and since I get way too many PM's and in game tells about it, here's an abreviated build thread. It's basically my 12/5/3 M/W/R build with 6 Less Monk levels and 6 More Rogue levels. I dropped the duece on this split a few months ago on the Motherboards and maybe in my Meteor Shower build thread, I can't really remember. I built this monstrosity and never posted the build until now. Basically once I knew for sure that Halfling throwing crit range was being fixed, I knew my shuriken builds needed to be halfling, and that opens up a few nice SA dice for cheap. And you know me, lets always try for more SA dice.

Dex is one or two points lower (no Great Dex Feat, only tier 3 Monk stance), SA dice are way higher.


Caveats: This leveling order was for a build using a Stone for most of heroics, and to maximize skill points (rogue level 1, and then backloaded so I got the most points in rogue levels for trap skills (from tomes), maybe it doesn't make a difference, but it feels like it in my head.

Halfling
9 Rogue, 6 Monk, 5 Wizard

1 Rogue: PBS
2 Monk: Dodge
3 Monk: Rapid Shot, Precision
4 Monk:
5 Monk:
6 Monk: Shuriken Expertise
7 Monk:  10K
8 Wizard: Extend
9 Wizard: QD
10 Wizard
11 Wizard
12 Wizard: Precise Shot, Quicken (Could take MT if you want)
13 Rogue
14 Rogue
15 Rogue: Completionist
16 Rogue
17 Rogue
18 Rogue: IPS
19 Rogue
20 Rogue
Epic21: Master of Forms
Epic24: IC Thrown
Epic26: Who Cares
Epic27: Epic Reflexes
Epic28: DoubleShot

Enhancements:
31 EK (take all the good stuff that costs 30, and then Tensers
17'ish-? Halfling (Master Thrower, SA, Dodge, Saves, Dex)
8 HsM (contemplation)
5 Ninja Spy (Core1/2, +3 Dodge)
15 TA (Shadow Dodge, Dex)
-----
76AP

This is the bare minimum for enhancements to be a boss. If you want to twist Enlightenment, or run sometimes in Ocean, you can skip 8AP in Henshin and use your mediations and the occasional Qstaff whacks (You are a Thief Acrobat after all!), giving you 12 AP to play with. In that case I would defiantly take those twelve and put 8 into Thief Acrobat for No Mercy Tier 3. The other 4 I would put into 2 more SA dice in Ninja Spy (Tier 1 and 2). This layout will make you extremely powerful. If you want to run in ShadowDancer, which I recommend trying, you probably need Epic Completionist though. The 4 twists make it possible to run out of Shiradi and still have throwing speed from Whirling Wrists. Though, it's not as big a hit as you might thing with self cast Haste and Bab 28.


This is, in Shiradi or Shadow Dancer, probably the highest sustained ranged DPS build in the game, currently. I will caveat this claim with:
1. Monkchers are obviously still excellent builds with high DPS. But they're spiky-er, unless in LD and blitzing.
2. My new build that is 12Arty/5Rogue/3Monk is potentially higher total DPS than this build, especially on Red/Purple named, but potentially slightly lower against trash. See the Artichucker (http://www.ddovault.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1405903270) for more info.

Max Dex (20 if you can afford, 19 or 18 if you cannot)

Rest in to Wisdom for at least 14 or 16 starting.

Whatever left over into Con, or Int if you're worried about trapping. You get a lot of Skill Points though from Rogue, so just put points into Balance, Concentration (for Ki), Search, Disable, and UMD. Put a few into OL, a couple into jump, a couple into Tumble. I like to put a few into Swim also, it makes a huge difference in speed, but not totally necessary.

This is much better than the drow version. Now, that being said, a 12Monk, 5 Wizard, 3 Rogue version of the original build as a halfling is still a top-notch, very powerful and excellent defensively.

But this one is higher DPS, with a little less defense (mostly with the loss of Deflect Arrows).

Lelouch wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 12:07pm:


No worries, I don't mind questions. There may be splits that are better, but no one is posting them or convincing me. As I said, I like the Dread Ninja build a lot, and I take some founders credit for inspiring the build. I have a primarily Wizard shuriken thrower alt, but it focuses on CC'ing with Shurikens and is primarily a Shiradi nuker, the Dread Ninja was quite original. But it's not the highest DPS, or even close by my calculations. I have spreadsheets and spreadsheets. It is however, one of the better defensively minded builds for throwing. Great self heals, a little CC with casting if you want, and full time 25% incorp. Kudos to that build on D.

This was talked about ad nauseum in my other build thread here and on the shithole DDO forums, but to summarize:

Tensers: +4 Dex, +4 Con, Full BaB bonus for Throwing Speed (roughly equivalent to self haste Haste, stacks with all other forms of throwing speed). This is the #1 Reason for wizard. Full Time Tensers. Also, bonus feats for Extend and Quicken/MT. This build loves SP. I don't know who Steele is, unless you mean Psykoozi on the shithole DDO forums. I also really like his build, and told him so. But there are some problems. I just don't believe that adding self healing with only 12 or 11 levels of Wizard, AND self-casting Haste, Displace, and Tensers that guy isn't chugging pots on longer quests and in Raids. If he isn't, good for him. But in my experience, he would be. Also the incorp isn't massive, it's 25% vs 10% Ghostly on a build that stays far away from combat and rarely ever takes physical damage. More importantly, I run in SD a lot, with 25% incorp, but my DPS is higher from not having 12 Wizard levels, and having 9 Rogue levels for SA damage.

What else does Wizard 5 Give? A lot.

10 PRR
10% AC
+3 Damage Before Crits (3 stacking Seeker)
1-6 Elemental Imbue
15HP
2 Dex
Arcane Barrier which is actually quite nice defensively, partially making up for no 25% incorp.

All that plus being able to ALWAYS have Tensers up SP free is really powerful. What exactly about ranger is better than that? Sniper Shot is great, real world it's about 5% DPS increase, far less than the 4 Dex from Tensers, let alone the speed increase. A couple SA dice in Sniper are nice too, but achievable elsewhere as you only have so many AP. You get feats from Ranger, but I already have the feats I need. Deflect Arrows and Tempest is a great combo, I dont have the feats for it on this build.
Regarding my Arty split in these forums: it's very powerful. With Halfling enhancements working, and with that build have OCrit, physical damage has become a lot more important to Shuriken throwers. Also, having Glasscannon off handed, or as you mention Tovens, which is amazing, adds around 18 damage per star for Tovens, or about 20 Damage per shot with Glass Cannon lvl 24. For mobs immune to those damage types, First Blood gives a hefty 15% DShot. It can also self cast Tensers, not perma, but it's self cast for almost 3 minutes a pop, with plenty of SP to spare, so it's basically perma. I would only scroll if I was outta SP or trying to save for some reason.

I've played Shuri builds with and Without Tensers, and you can feel the difference in power with and without it. 4 Dex, 4 Con, and full BaB throwing speed is very noticeable on any build.

Yes the AC of these builds can get very high. I also have Plifes, but free Shield and 10PRR is not nothing.

Lelouch wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 1:04pm:


I use Morningstar (EH) with a Meteoric Ruby. High proc damage, general purpose, good for undead also.

Before lvl 24/25, I like Alchemical. Earth/Air/Whatever, for sure, Although, you dont need Air if you have tensers since they're both Alchem stats to Dex, so go water or Earth again. Don't really matter, both are good.

He-he. I made this build soon after Harhar mentioned it in the original thread. It used to be Drow at first, but then I made a Halfling in preparation for the fix. Its quite the best thing I had for a while.
I'll prolly give a try for Artichucker next life too

Lelouch wrote on Jul 25^th, 2014 at 1:13pm:


If you are really into ranger, I think AA tree is the best. All those imbues that worked for Arrows, currently working for Shuris.
Unless they've been fixed, so correct me if I'm wrong.

I made a first life version of this.  Obviously not completionist.  Its also only a 28 point build.  Thus far, max dex is 50.  I'm only getting 50 to 75 damage per throw.
The weapon and gear is very suboptimal.  I have deadly, accuracy, and seeker 5 to 6 slotted.  Maxed out on dex for a level 20. 
Does maxing Wis matter?
I need to inc dex.
I need to get a good shuriken for this level 20 char.  (from Master Artificer, Vale, and Low Places?)

harharharhar wrote on Jul 27^th, 2014 at 2:25pm:


Not exactly.. its not a straight 8%, its 4% chance extra for a second, and 4% chance for a third (or second if you did not get a second)

But harr, thing that you always seem to disregard is.
Im not losing tensers as ranger, i can always scroll it and im such a type of player who has it burnt in mind to keep it up at all times.
No encounter will take long enough not to have tensers up as shuriken build beside boss fights.
Its also is not a low duration cast, its enough and only takes up couple more slots while it adds 1 more thing to press on a build that doesnt mutlitask alot.

Long time ago i was so obsessed with maxing out my dps so that i even used divine favor scrolls.
So in short, i dont lose tensers dps at all, but gain all things from ranger.

If i understand that right, then i dont lose dps at all but gain a massive boost vs bosses that will help me be superior dps then most shuri builds.

Once again, it has more to do with me as player who has a ability to keep track of my buff bar and who will refresh all those buffs by instinct. In most real life scenarios tho players wont bother with tensers and will forget it making it lose dps.

But there are some freaks out there like me who just do it,
i went so far that i forced a friend to level 2 boxes with me.
Now we have a artie and im almost done leveling a bard /warchanter cores op/ for the buffs they give.


So can you add in your dps calculation heavy draw +tensors so that i can see practical case of build i plan to play and tnx if you bother to do so, also things like stances imbues rams sniper shots killer deadly shot thrill aimed shot, w increase from heavy draw  etc etc /list would be to long to add all things, example full stacked 20 inferno shots should be done fast on shuri

Lelouch wrote on Jul 27^th, 2014 at 6:07pm:


Sniper Shot gives +2 Crit Threat and Multiplier. Which means it will let you crit 10% more, for another 200% physical damage (and 2[W] which on a shuriken is like 4 damage for that attack). 10% of 200% is 20%. If every time you threw, you were sniper shot-ing, you would be doing 20% more damage than if you were weren't. But, you can only Sniper Shot every 6 seconds.

With a Throw rate from my throwing tests of around .7 Throws per second at end game (with Whirling Wrists and Tensers), you get to Sniper Shot every 8.57 Throws. 1/8.57=11.6% of the time your shot will be a Sniper Shot (under perfect conditions, which don't exist, but this is the math). So 20% damage from Sniper Shot 11.6% of the time = 2.3% average increase in DPS, but ONLY physical damage and on critical effects, and versus mobs that can be crit due to Fortification. . My Throwing Test results are here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/442140-Thrown-Attack-Speed. If you're phyisical damage/throw is an average of about 80 critable damage, that an increase from Sniper shot of 1.84 physical damage per throw. In this way, the SA vulnerability aspect of Sniper Shot probably results in far more damage than the actual physical damage of the attack itself. It's just not that good without Adrenaline.

I don't know what the deal with stances are right now, and I don't know if you can still have more than 1 active at once, or which apply to Shurikens. You test that and let me know, and I'll help you do the math to the extent that I am able. If you can still only have 1 stance active, that is 3.5 damage per shuriken, which is equivalent to 1 SA dice. The rest of AA is trash, unless you're going for the cores of 5% and 20% Doubleshot (which I've considered on an Elf build using Elf AA, but it's SO expensive AP wise I don't know how to make it work). I won't do the math on Aimed shot because it's even worse than Sniper shot.

Don't forget, if you go T5 Sniper, you can't take the final tiers of Imbues, which is the only thing that makes the tree not garbage. Slayer arrows do almost nothing for a build like this since it doesn't run in Fury for Adrenaline/Slayers. Will it allow you to do big crits and clear some trash in a line here and there? Sure, it will. But so will just throwing faster and harder more consistently. If you miss your big lined up IPS shot with Sniper or a Fury Slayer arrow, you have to wait. The difference in my playstyle is, I don't have to wait for shit. I am just always crushing deeps.

Tested a bit, is only 1 stance at a time, so would prolly pick acid for 1d6 and inferno shot and call it quits with whole aa tree as only those 2 things seem attractive to me with constant dps.
You could go improved stance for improved earth for imp destruction but not sure how worth it since it would be to ap costy.
Favored damage from deepwood adds 3 damage vs favored enemies from 5 ranger levels you get base 3 so its a total of 6 from that alone, since most content is human and undead /content that matters tbh where only good loot drops could add that to calcs i guess. Merciful shot adds 3 w and when target is under 20% hp it adds 500 damage on sneaks, with sniper this could be nice burst for boss fights when they are low.
Honestly i still have plenty to test but closing to 20 slowly.

Bdw i never intended to do a fury thing, im primarly looking at deepwood since i dont like burst dps but would rather focus on constant dps with situational burst like merciful for example.
Im confident i would also never swap to bow for manyshot since even if its 4 arrow procs it doesnt seem to be any good on a halfling dex based since base damage comes from dex /hope someone proves me wrong on this.

Bdw at ollie, i waste around 3 seconds for tensers cast and its duration is 1 min 5 sec. Even if you cut off 3-4 seconds from it i still think using scrolls is overall better due to strong deepwood and aa trees.
Just me tho, whenever i play a build i try to get the most out of it. And im more sold on having a inv tab full of tensers scrolls with a ranger monk rogue split then on a artie wizzy.
Dps benefit from ranger just seems huge.
And both of you can agree, that with mortal trash is non existent as shuri build. Only issue is boss fights. And there archer focus and all ranger things begin to shine imo.

///// not important part mainly monolog
Sadly i only tested mortal on lama on shuri ideas i had.
Made ss on live for druid swf broken brutality melle (when you solo ee wgu around 30 mins as full time melle you know how broken a build is heh) so only thing i can make atm is a alchemical t2 as im out of mats and not into the dupalonza thing since im a pussy who doesnt want his triple heroic triple iconic and soon triple epic completionist banned, and hopefully il get a t3 on bots before etr and last dshoot plife before engaging into a shuri build /atm monkcher type.
/////

But it seems im forcing my opinion on you guys, dont think wrong of it. Im just stubborn when i find smthn interesting and fun and as its case with ranger monk rogue i just want to see a explanation why people are doing non ranger shuris and why har is forcing a non ranger. As a i assume ee soloer he should be after high effeciency shuriken base builds. As i lack brain cells from to much tring to do math what is better and what not im simply doing it the easy way.
Add tensers scrolls and my eyes cant see why ranger shouldnt be better.
Only reason i can see is lazyness to scroll it, nothing beyond that.
If that is not the case  i would change my direction of thinking but as it currently stands i cant see reason for wizz if not for wraight upgraded form or artie at all since its tree is utter garbage, tovens is ok and didnt think of glass cannon myself since i didnt make it. But thats about it and using those 2 you do cut yourself from monk stance monk dodge while centerd and a possible devotion devotion pos crit offhander thunderforged or celestia or devourers reaping..
I just dont see it, again not trying to be rude just trying to logically think about it.

Keep in mind that i mostly solo/duo with 1-3 bots so our opinions might be different in case our playstyle is different.
I do group, but only when buddy is sleeping or away or he decides to put lfm for a change of pace.

Also sorry for possibly bad english, punctuation errors and wall of text as im fanaticaly trying to understand shuriken builds completely

All my comments are mainly regarding the fact that i have things that others dont have. So i know how unrealistic that might be compared to casual players. Keep that in mind as the ammount of players that have characters and tensor habbits is minimal.

Examples: i have a bard buff bot -- haste issue solved and i can add dshot and damage 6% in all my calculations (realistically how many can do that?)
-I have plentiful displace clickies - displace issue solved-
-I tend to use tensors all the time anyways and have yet to met a real life case scenario where i need to fight a pack of trash mobs non stop /maybe wgu/ so that i lose that dps percentage while recasting.

Thing is if you look at it from the prespective that ddo is setup in most content /like 99% of content/ as a number of small skirmishes with some walking around then skirmish again then a boss fight with bazilion hp, then tensoring isnt loss of dps at all, but a thing you do on the run and a minute of tensor on a mortal feared shuri is enough for any skrimish.

Only in boss fights it becomes a issue to keep it up at all time but that is the point. I still think the ammount of time lost  refreshing tensers during a boss fight is miniscure dps loss compared to loss of 10 more archer focus stacks h draw etc etc.

Why i said human /undead is mainly for peaks and horns/wheloon. I have yet to get a single good item that is profitable in other content, well roads got some but even there its mainly humans. Also you could technicaly pick 3rd favored for orcs /but i considder that waste of ap/
, or go more ranger focused split for free 3rd favored.
Splits being good that come to  mind would be 11 ranger 6 monk 3 rogue feat wise /bab should be maxed out  in crusader so you would only lose the 4 dex when not tenserd/
but im trying out a 9 monk 6 ranger 5 rogue as that split gives me improved evasion so that i can skip on epic reflexes, and use lv 27 feat slot for something better. Maybe for oc line, maybe for blinding speed and not bother with haste. Still in plans as im collecting all info and got to prepare alchemical shuri and get last doubleshoot life first.
Also that is not a good split, its a versatile build to swap playstyles during etr. /staff tempest monkchery shuri etc

I dislike doing thing halfway and i tend to be  a quite annoying min/maxer and for a min/max shuri build i dont see it without ranger.
Only issue is the habbit to use tenser scrolls and i assume most players dont like swaps and play shuri builds mainly since its a autoattack build that relies only on positioning

Haha, don't tell me - they fixed multistance but left it so you could activate one then swap out AP and leave it activated?