Building an argument around one raid is a bad idea, it's like saying trees suck bc it's not very effective in mod. Not sure if you've actually played a thrower in mod in LD/EA but I'm guessing that's a no. I say this because the comment about 2 hours to match dps with one fury shot. I've played a maxed out thrower and monkcher in ee mod speed runs, both have efficient dps.

Stinky_Pinky wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 4:33am:

No i havent played one but i saw people try to play them and being less then useless.
And paper wise/they offer nothing ... sneak immune enemies/no need to control trash, no blunt damage bypass, only thforged procs to rely on as damage that dont come close to a furyshot or a dcrus palie.
In exalted i assume it would be somewhat ok,
Still not even nearly enough.
Also all speed runs were completed wout shuri in achivments. I wonder why..

If you are kiting on the platform then you get to subtract the melee dps of the rest of the party from your total.

Kiting sucks in MoD. You don't win a prize for standing on top of the pillar in the death knight rooms.

5 Foot Step wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 5:01am:

I'm guessing you haven't done ee mod. What do you think happens when ddealing with all 3 knights, ranged kite. It's not like running norm/hard where you group all three together.
Winning a prize where all the ranged stand on top a pillar, wtf? You do realize on ee ranged take one side while melee take a different. Pls run outside of norm before you start talking shit

Stinky_Pinky wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 5:17am:


You keep it, it just decreases.
Swap to archer focus, use sniper shot, get 3 shuri proc which will give you insta 12 or more stacks then swap to imp precise.
ITs a tedious playstyle, but you can keep up 20 stacks at all times with that approach, just need 1 secon when you make distance to swap to stance and make it "count for stacks".
I played with it pre mark update, and pretty sure it still works the same.
20 stacks give you 40% more misssile damage.
Way superior to anyhthing a wizzy hybrid can do imo since you can scroll tensors but you cant scroll perma 20 archer stacks

Issue with that is, that you need to have a mindset of highest efficiency at all times to play that way.
Most people dont like that since they play shuris for autoattack braindead chillage mainly

Stinky_Pinky wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 5:35am:


Or the one while in melle while keeping the melle damage

I tested a bit, but wasnt to interested to proceed, i think you still keep the melle damage with archer stacks.
I had a dumb idea to test properly on a dex melle build with shuri for archer stacks.
But was to lazy to do so since im slowly losing interest in ddo.

Lelouch wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 5:31am:

Using snipe shot doesn't give additional stacks(for me, at least). I love to see a video where you start and finish a dungeon with "perma 20" archer focus stacks as well. I consider myself a pretty good player and I'm maybe keeping 3-7 while stopping, taking the time to target mobs far away(which die very quickly regardless). Most of the time I could have them killed just by zerging as usual. Switching stances takes that second, I tried jumping with ff but still doesn't help.

You might get a little more dps with having ranger extra stacks on bosses, but that's when you aren't soloing or have aggro. I rather keep the wiz for bab/dex/hp/ac (permanently) and small but useful spells.

Play styles vary and the usefulness of one's split might vary as well 

Rabbit wrote on Dec 4^th, 2014 at 2:07pm:

Not moving around will cause you to be encased,  unless you're in DC. LD/EA are best for a thrower in mod.
Running norm/hard, I guess it doesn't matter though.

Packfan wrote on Dec 5^th, 2014 at 7:42am:


Angel form and epic moment form have a nice light damage proc, it is ok, but only a 4 minute burst, usually enough for most marks, for ee not so much, maybe for dknights if you pike at platform

It's actually nice for EE as well. This comes from experience, not just assuming. After you try it pls post and let us know how it worked out for you.

I've got 9 AP left over to work with in U25 as I dropped Henshin (since I have Epic Completionist and twisted in Enlightenment).

I usually run in Shadow Dancer and Water Stance for the extra saves and dodge for EE content and in anything lower because stuff dies fast anyway.

My current layout of Enhancements:
31 EK = (take all the good stuff that costs 30, and then Tensers)
17'ish = Halfling (Master Thrower, SA, Dodge, Saves, Dex)
6 Ninja Spy = 2 Core/3xArco, 1xStealth
16 TA = (Shadow Dodge, Dex) 2 core/Fast Move, 3xTA/3xHasteB/3xSD
1 Mech = 1 core

With 9 AP's left over I can either go up the Thief Acro or Ninja Spy trees. I'd really like to add to Mechanic for the extra SA range but it doesn't give me much more than that with a bit more damage per star I think.

So adding to TA gives:
Core 3 (+2 max dodge)
1xCharm (filler)
2xDex (evens out my Dex in Water)
No Mercy (good in Shiradi and with MM Shiradi Spammers)

Or

Add to NS gives:
1xAgility
2xSA die
1xDex
Sting of the Ninja (more DPS?)

Hmmmm... probably go with more TA unless I'm missing something here?

DoRayEgon wrote on Apr 7^th, 2015 at 1:32pm:


OK, went with the extra points into Ninja Spy to test with...
1xAgility
2xSA die
1xDex
Sting of the Ninja

So far I'm finding that Sting is adding about 12 to 40 poison damage per tick depending on stacks.

I'm 3 Dex points off my U24 usual Dex but I'm killing things faster.

On the Ship Dummy with a capped toon and triple pos shuriken,

Shadow Dancer (68 Dex) is giving me about 290 to 330 Slash damage on average with crits around the 480 to 550 range.

L Dread (64 Dex) is giving me about 260 to 300 Slash damage on average with crits in the 990 to 1000+ range while Blitzing (which is easy to maintain on a many thrower).

The dummy goes down fast in either case in roughly the same time.

D Crusader is giving me about 230 to 250 Slash damage on average but strangely isn't too bad with crits around the 600 mark but coming more often due to the expanded range.

Shiradi Champ was the most anemic with about 260 to 300 Slash damage on average about 20%+ slower in bringing the dummy down.

Overall, I'm liking U25 so far with Range Power implemented and I'm not missing the lost Dex from Shadow Dodge. Oh and I think I'll keep the points into Ninja Spy 

My Range Power seems low at 48 so I'm wondering what numbers other people are reaching?

DoRayEgon wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 10:06am:


Agreed, Sting is a keeper for now on my toon.

Fast Movement is really nice too with 9 Rogue. I'm probably as fast now without haste compared to hasted in U24. It's not quite 18 levels of monk speed but it's pretty darn close.

Now if I can only increase my standing Range Power without having to go into LD...