will?

Fort?

What does it take these days?  will a 68 will dc? how about a 71 fort?

fecking fort 

SirValentine wrote on Aug 28^th, 2014 at 5:02am:


I don't know for sure how the devs are working it, but if they are following the DnD formula for scaling saves with hit dice, there is a MASSIVE difference between a "good" and a "bad" monster save by the time you're up to the CR64 trash in EE Stormhorns... like "bigger than the random number generator" massive.  I am seriously having more luck with a poxy 54 DC Howl of Terror on packs of melee mobs than I am with a mid-60's Soundburst.

If memory serves - and I could well be wrong or remembering a different system here - the rules for monster advancement in 3.5 compounded the problem by advancing primary stats every so-many hit dice, but not the others, so a melee mob with a very high CR will have a ludicrous Str and Con but potentially the same Wis that the base creature starts with.  Regardless of how they're working it though, the disparity between saves at high CR's really needs to be dealt with.  And not by raising the low saves, either 

Wipe wrote on Aug 28^th, 2014 at 6:35am:

I have seen those orcs pass 80 dc stun/QP. Full party scaling.

Ya I know, but you just can't make it no fail ( and it shouldn't be, highest level, highest difficulty in the game ) or there would be Butthurt all over again. No caster edge survives long enough until some melee start crying on forums.
If you consider top DCs around 72 - 75.
Assassin might be at 70- 72. Yeah all five of them. It doesn't cost resources, they have to work with broken aggro/detection stuff now sadly.
Wizzy - 72 ? And basically free Enervate and Enchant+Burst backup (or often primary offense ), PWK.
Sorcs they would have Elemental option either way and possibly higher practical Enchant.
Cleric and Fvs, they would get to 72 - 75, some dps backup, no cc to speak of.
Druid has just awesome cc, great SLAs not worried about instakills.
Fuck bards.

I would say 72 DC working 80% time, that would be safe number, that 2 DC difference is just gut feeling number.
I don't know, what number would you suggest ?
Instakills is pretty "delicate" topic, you can piss half the people off haha.

Power Word Kill is not a necro spell and has a save.

Cleric's and FVS cannot (on average)get DC's as high as a Wizard.  Cleric and FVS DPS back up?  Keep the Barbarian alive.

Back up?  Who needs back up?  Zerg solo that shit.

NOTdarth wrote on Aug 28^th, 2014 at 9:54am:


It has for lobster fucktards, it seems
http://ddowiki.com/page/Power_Word:_Kill
In PvP, players will get a Fortitude save, and only face death if under 100 hit points.

Divine casters get to smite and cometfall as pseudo-cc.

And *nothing* can come close to bard cc (fascinate). Although, admittedly, fascinated mobs don't stay fascinated when the group doesn't know not to hit every single fascinated mob at the same time. Also, greater shout does stun, and it's spammable.

Ah ok... I was worried already when I noticed 2 weeks ago that my pwk shows a save which is much lower than my necro DCs. So... the save which is shown ingame is only for PvP?
Good to know.

Already thought Turbine would have nerfed one of my fav spells and keeping the long cooldown... just for fun.

NOTSunnyshadow wrote on Aug 28^th, 2014 at 10:35am:

One of my guild mates runs a bard that has a facinate in the high 70's.  He will tell us when he is going to facinate.  If a pug bard does not speak up it is his/her own fault.

Comet fall does do some CC.  Still wish divine casters had at least one true CC spell.

Red Sox H8 Yankees wrote on Aug 28^th, 2014 at 9:22am:

Hey, you shall not think "average" if we wanna talk endgame mob saves imo.
On the other hand, maximum DCs doesn't give you much practical answer.
Rubbinns wrote on Aug 28^th, 2014 at 7:51am:

I would have experience with 72 Necro + Enervation and 75 Implosion. It feels like 50 % effectiveness. That's why I suggested 2 or 3 fort saves down.

Red Sox H8 Yankees wrote on Aug 29^th, 2014 at 7:39am:


Are you deliberately being a moron?

What retarded idiot sorc player would even try to use an instakill on a squishy drow when direct damage works flawlessly on them. The squishy drow. Notice the word squishy in there?

Angry wrote on Aug 29^th, 2014 at 8:44am:

It's okay, I can get to 60 Enchant.
But it's such a bitch to use, you either have to have stupid cloak or weapon swap + augment for it.
Because slotting 5 conjuration + 2 aug, 5 Necro + 2 aug, 6 Evocation +2 aug, 5 Transm + 2 aug if you use Mass Flav often and all the different shit is not enough