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Kluege
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U23 Archer Discussion
Sep 2nd, 2014 at 9:21am
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I tried a few different builds.  If you want to keep a str build, the 12 monk/ 6 ranger / 2 pally moncher still works.  If you want to take advantage of the holy sword spell, it gets a little tricky as you become feat starved quickly.  I could not work all the feats in to go bladeforged and use str.  So, the only other option I had was 14 pally / 6 monk elf going dex.  This opened up AA as well as grace for dex bonus to damage.  I still went mountain stance for the crit bonus and extra con and was sitting with a 50 ish dex.  Since I was not tied to str and divine might, I invested in the assassin tree and got No Mercy.  I haven't considered that one recently, but the increased damage to helpless is good and works well with the one from Fury.  Fury shot seems a bit nerfed.  I was only seeing numbers around 5-8k when I was used to seeing 16-20k damage.  When I reconfigured with No Mercy, I got it back up to 17k or so on a sneak attack.  Plus, the ninja spy give a good back up with short swords.  Also, LD used to allow blunt arrows to count in the blunt attack crit increase, but that no longer works.  So, either Divine Crusader or Fury are the options until we get ranged power implemented.

I also played with the quiver a bit.  If you twist in enlightenment from Grandmaster of flowers, you can have enough base Ki (Ki regen 0) to use 10k stars, but not by much.  Since I no longer was using divine might, I did not need to twist in the regeneration from Divine Crusader.  That being said, the Boots of the Innocent give the same speed bonus, so I do not see a reason to use the quiver.

Also, I did have a little debate with Steelstar on the value of the quiver as well as over emphasized the ridiculousness of the quells spamming dispell and level drain.  I don't want to HAVE to play a robot just because of a stupid implementation of quells.  He said they were toning it back, which is better I guess.  Steelstar also commented that they are doing a ranged pass in the upcoming releases.  He did comment that if they included the rangedpower in this release, it would have pushed things back to end of year 2014.  So, I guess ranged power will be Q1-2 2015?
« Last Edit: Sep 2nd, 2014 at 9:25am by Kluege »  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #1 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 1:11pm
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cue moncher rage.
  
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Kluege
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #2 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 2:20pm
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Hag Master wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 1:11pm:
cue moncher rage.


I don't really see a whole lot of rage (outside of the knee jerk reaction) as everything still functions as is.  I did see Furyshot being toned down, but that is not necessarily a moncher thing exclusively.  You also gain 2 feats as you do not need cleave and great cleave to get overwhelming crit AND you can build as robot for the negative level spamming quells.  You also get a larger spread of enhancements to pick from than a 14/6 build.  Plus, I love abundant step and you lose that.

Pure DPS the 14/6 will be superior as you have Holy Sword and Fury Shots.  But, the original Moncher build is still viable.  As I said, Fury Shots seemed to hit less hard in my initial testing, but was further boosted by taking No Mercy in the ninja spy tree.

All said and done, I think I will go with the 14/6 build for at least a life or two or until they do a ranged pass.
  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #3 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 3:16pm
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Can't you take Sun Elf and get INT-to-damage from Harper tree? I think that investing in Grace is a lot of AP not spent in other trees.

Is ignoring Monk levels viable? If thrower builds can get high enough Doubleshot to ignore 10k/MS, can you do it with a bow shooter? That way you become much more flexible by ignoring Ki, and there are many different ways to increase your crit profile other than Mountain stance. It's a bid sad that on live you HAVE to get monk levels to be a good shooter.
  
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Kluege
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #4 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 3:39pm
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Oyster wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 3:16pm:
Can't you take Sun Elf and get INT-to-damage from Harper tree? I think that investing in Grace is a lot of AP not spent in other trees.

Is ignoring Monk levels viable? If thrower builds can get high enough Doubleshot to ignore 10k/MS, can you do it with a bow shooter? That way you become much more flexible by ignoring Ki, and there are many different ways to increase your crit profile other than Mountain stance. It's a bid sad that on live you HAVE to get monk levels to be a good shooter.


You have to invest in levels to get AA in sun elf and you have to invest in harper to get int damage.  So, I would have to compare the actual costs.  Dex also carries an AC benefit.

Either way, I am not investing into Pally trees since it won't be a str build.  I am not investing into Henshin since I am not needed +ki regen from here anymore with twisting enlightenment.  I was able to achieve what I wanted with the dex build, but int sounds good too with the benefit of skills.  I will have to compare the point costs.  I think either will work though.  Going int means +1 more damage as Mountain stance is -2 dex, so there is another benefit....

Also, I have to check the dex requirements for Combat Archery and see if it is still 21.  Imp Precise still has one.

If Lamm is still up tonight I will test it out.
« Last Edit: Sep 2nd, 2014 at 3:48pm by Kluege »  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #5 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 3:54pm
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I'm liking the int option from harper tree, especially since it's the only way to get ranged spell power atm.

From testing though I don't really feel like a 14p/6monk is better or more dps than a 12m/6ranger/2x build.  The extra crit mod is nice an all, but if you're not investing in the pally trees taking elf/sun elf means you're also passing up damage boost. I toyed with the idea of an int sun elf, but half elf just seems to give a better return on ap mostly thanks to damage boost.

I am very much liking 14pally/3monk/3rogue tossers though, no manyshot and ninja spy core 2 makes it so much easier.  But for bow users, imo,  holy sword doesn't making up for losing out on sniper shot, movement, defenses & the stacking str benefits.
« Last Edit: Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:00pm by Munkenmo »  

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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #6 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 3:57pm
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Munkenmo wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 3:54pm:
I'm liking the int option from harper tree, especially since it's the only way to get ranged spell power atm.

From testing though I don't really feel like a 14p/6monk is better or more dps than a 12m/6ranger/2x build.

holy sword doesn't making up for losing out on sniper shot, the stacking str benefits.

I am very much liking 14pally/3monk/3rogue tossers though, no manyshot and ninja spy core 2 makes it so much easier.


You still play?
  

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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #7 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 3:58pm
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Munkenmo wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 3:54pm:
I'm liking the int option from harper tree, especially since it's the only way to get ranged spell power atm.

From testing though I don't really feel like a 14p/6monk is better or more dps than a 12m/6ranger/2x build.

holy sword doesn't making up for losing out on sniper shot, the stacking str benefits.

I am very much liking 14pally/3monk/3rogue tossers though, no manyshot and ninja spy core 2 makes it so much easier.


Anyhow - your statements of quitting the game aside, does Holy Sword work on shuriken? Any limitations to its use?
  

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Kluege
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #8 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 3:59pm
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Munkenmo wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 3:54pm:
I'm liking the int option from harper tree, especially since it's the only way to get ranged spell power atm.

From testing though I don't really feel like a 14p/6monk is better or more dps than a 12m/6ranger/2x build.

holy sword doesn't making up for losing out on sniper shot, the stacking str benefits.

I am very much liking 14pally/3monk/3rogue tossers though, no manyshot and ninja spy core 2 makes it so much easier.


You can get 50 from LD while blitzing.
« Last Edit: Sep 2nd, 2014 at 3:59pm by Kluege »  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #9 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:05pm
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NOTSunnyshadow wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 3:57pm:
You still play?


You're behind the 8ball on this one :p.

1. I downloaded this lam client, because melee power & prr/mrr changes had the potential to change what I knew about defense / offense.

2. I had to get a guildie to log my characters into live, since it seemed after 6 months they don't show up in the character transfer list. here

3. Holy sword does work on shuriken. proof

4. I'll be going back into retirement when lam closes and our banter can continue Cheesy.
« Last Edit: Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:11pm by Munkenmo »  

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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #10 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:17pm
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Munkenmo wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:05pm:
You're behind the 8ball on this one :p.

1. I downloaded this lam client, because melee power & prr/mrr changes had the potential to change what I knew about defense / offense.

2. I had to get a guildie to log my characters into live, since it seemed after 6 months they don't show up in the character transfer list. here

3. Holy sword does work on shuriken. proof

4. I'll be going back into retirement when lam closes and our banter can continue Cheesy.


Awesome!

Does it work on other weapons? Bows? Throwing daggers? Sceptres?

And yeah - it's kinda obvious that you still play =P.

Or at the very least greatly long to play. You should just go ahead and play, man. There's no shame in playing a video game every now and then. There is shame if you demand verification from an impartial 3rd party like dropbear in all caps bold coloured font spammed across multiple threads. But I digress. Just play already!
  

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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #11 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:19pm
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Munkenmo wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 3:54pm:
the stacking str benefits.

Not sure what you mean here. What stacking str bonus and why couldnt 14/6 get that?


Munkenmo wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 3:54pm:
14pally/3monk/3rogue

Why not 10K instead of 3 rogue levels?
« Last Edit: Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:19pm by Rubbinns »  

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I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #12 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:26pm
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I don't think I like the int build for a 14/6 build.  However, this does peak an interest in reviving my 8 arti, 6 ranger, 6 monk as an int build.....  A lot more open feat options without needing the PA, cleave, great cleave trio and I could go robot for the neg level spamming, reconstruct, traps, self buffs etc....   hmmmm

  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #13 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:29pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:19pm:
Why not 10K instead of 3 rogue levels?


3 rogue provides 6extra dex, it's too much to pass up.

Rubbinns wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:19pm:
Not sure what you mean here. What stacking str bonus and why couldnt 14/6 get that?


There aren't enough feats on a 14pally/6monk to fit in bow strength (pre-req weapon focused ranged).  Compounding the issue though is how many AP you've gotta blow on picking up Grace.  It's why I prefer a half-elf int based harper,  qualifies for damage boost and no need to go beyond 14ap in the racial tree.
« Last Edit: Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:32pm by Munkenmo »  

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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #14 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:34pm
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How much do you need to invest into Harper to get the Int bonus?  Does Combat Archery still require a 21 base dex (15 with a +6 tome).
  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #15 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:35pm
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Hag Master wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 1:11pm:
cue moncher rage.



Kluege wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 2:20pm:
I don't really see a whole lot of rage (outside of the knee jerk reaction) as everything still functions as is.  I did see Furyshot being toned down, but that is not necessarily a moncher thing exclusively.  You also gain 2 feats as you do not need cleave and great cleave to get overwhelming crit AND you can build as robot for the negative level spamming quells.  You also get a larger spread of enhancements to pick from than a 14/6 build.  Plus, I love abundant step and you lose that.

Pure DPS the 14/6 will be superior as you have Holy Sword and Fury Shots.  But, the original Moncher build is still viable.  As I said, Fury Shots seemed to hit less hard in my initial testing, but was further boosted by taking No Mercy in the ninja spy tree.

All said and done, I think I will go with the 14/6 build for at least a life or two or until they do a ranged pass.



I meant in regards to the fact that it may be next year before the ranged power issue gets addressed.

By addressed I mean boosted the way everything else that gets any attention seems to get jacked up.

Ranged players will know that more sweet sweet power is on the way, and will be unhappy about having to wait.
« Last Edit: Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:36pm by Hag Master »  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #16 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:37pm
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Any idea when we can expect this to go live?
  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #17 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:41pm
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NOTSunnyshadow wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:17pm:
Or at the very least greatly long to play. You should just go ahead and play, man. There's no shame in playing a video game every now and then


I'm not sure you understand the perspective of being a builder, from the day I stopped following other peoples builds and started coming up with my own, I've enjoyed making concepts more than playing them.  Don't get me wrong playing was fun, but it stopped being my main draw ages ago.

Playing on lam really let me see how little I actually enjoy playing now vs just coming up with builds.  It's not the same game I used to enjoy, power creep, grind and population decline have seen to that.

Going to uni after 10 years of working is kicking my arse something chronic though, I simply don't have the time to invest in gaming now like I did when I was first playing DDO. 

When I do have the time, there are much more enjoyable games (even if they have a short shelf life *see eso).
  

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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #18 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:43pm
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Any idea when we can expect this to go live?


You promised to chone, barcelot.
  

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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #19 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:51pm
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Munkenmo wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:41pm:
I'm not sure you understand the perspective of being a builder, from the day I stopped following other peoples builds and started coming up with my own, I've enjoyed making concepts more than playing them.  Don't get me wrong playing was fun, but it stopped being my main draw ages ago.

Playing on lam really let me see how little I actually enjoy playing now vs just coming up with builds.  It's not the same game I used to enjoy, power creep, grind and population decline have seen to that.

Going to uni after 10 years of working is kicking my arse something chronic though, I simply don't have the time to invest in gaming now like I did when I was first playing DDO. 

When I do have the time, there are much more enjoyable games (even if they have a short shelf life *see eso). 


But seeing your build come to life... that is awesome (at least to me).

I made AAs before AAs were cool. A 19 rogue 1 wizard, feat-starved gimp in all her glory. I loved - absolutely loved seeing what I planned her doing happen. At level 20, which was the cap then, I could clear out corridors in epics with manyshot + sneak attack (triggered by sleetstorm scrolls). From a ROGUE AA, a combination that (at the time) most people considered about as gimpy as a full plate dagger + shield paladin nowadays.

It was fun planning her - it was even more fun playing her to get the build just right.
  

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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #20 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 5:10pm
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NOTSunnyshadow wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:43pm:
You promised to chone, barcelot.


By now you know that I'm not Barky, but go ahead and say so if it makes you feel better. Wink

It must kill you that barkyboy seems to actually have run away with hit tail between his legs, left you all alone, you miss your crush!!! don't worry soon some new vault whipping boy will emerge and then you can jump on that band wagon as well!!!!!  Grin
  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #21 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 5:15pm
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By now you know that I'm not Barky, but go ahead and say so if it makes you feel better. Wink

It must kill you that barkyboy seems to actually have run away with hit tail between his legs, left you all alone, you miss your crush!!! don't worry soon some new vault whipping boy will emerge and then you can jump on that band wagon as well!!!!!  Grin


Same grammatical errors, similar spelling errors, nearly identical speech patterns. Overwhelming use of exclamation points.
  

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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #22 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 5:23pm
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NOTSunnyshadow wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 5:15pm:
Same grammatical errors, similar spelling errors, nearly identical speech patterns. Overwhelming use of exclamation points.



You really really miss him!!!!! you poor thing  Cry  but with that evidence it explains why two dozen different accounts have been called barky since his meltdown.  It rates right up there with the other past conclusions vaulters have pulled out of their bottoms in months gone by  Smiley for instance, that I would burn out back in back in June!!!!!  This is just more wishful thinking on peoples part Grin

Sadly for you there is only Fire Foot, and really I am so magnificent and singular!

But go ahead and derail another thread with those whines of heartbreak!!!!






  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #23 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 5:27pm
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Fire, shadow, anyone else who is a 13 year old, just fuck off you jackasses, how many threads do you assholes really have to ruin? This is the build sub-forum go screw up the drama section, just go away.
  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #24 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 5:30pm
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Hag Master wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 5:27pm:
Fire, shadow, anyone else who is a 13 year old, just fuck off you jackasses, how many threads do you assholes really have to ruin? This is the build sub-forum go screw up the drama section, just go away. 


Spelling and grammar are important, are they not?

I'm quite aware that this is the builds forum. It just annoys me that barcelot is back.
  

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