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Hot Topic (More than 35 Replies) U23 Archer Discussion (Read 16729 times)
Viktor Vaughn
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #25 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 6:21pm
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Kluege wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 2:20pm:
I don't really see a whole lot of rage (outside of the knee jerk reaction) as everything still functions as is.  I did see Furyshot being toned down, but that is not necessarily a moncher thing exclusively.  You also gain 2 feats as you do not need cleave and great cleave to get overwhelming crit AND you can build as robot for the negative level spamming quells.  You also get a larger spread of enhancements to pick from than a 14/6 build.  Plus, I love abundant step and you lose that.

Pure DPS the 14/6 will be superior as you have Holy Sword and Fury Shots.  But, the original Moncher build is still viable.  As I said, Fury Shots seemed to hit less hard in my initial testing, but was further boosted by taking No Mercy in the ninja spy tree.

All said and done, I think I will go with the 14/6 build for at least a life or two or until they do a ranged pass.

Isnt it 3 feats?
Power attack.
  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #26 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 6:47pm
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I haven't seen a decrease in damage on my current moncher transfering.
  
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Kluege
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #27 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 8:57pm
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Viktor Vaughn wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 6:21pm:
Isnt it 3 feats?
Power attack.


yes, it is three.
  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #28 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 9:18pm
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NOTSunnyshadow wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 5:30pm:
Spelling and grammar are important, are they not?

I'm quite aware that this is the builds forum. It just annoys me that barcelot is back.


On a gaming forum I couldn't care less about grammar, you are annoyed? fine, go complain about it somewhere appropriate like the drama forum.

I don't care who left, who stayed, who this or who that and I am guessing that I am not alone in that. I was interested in  talking about the archer content here, the same way I was interested in the DC content thread until that got derailed.

You people have whole forum areas for your little melodramas, use them.



I really am looking forward to holy sword in ranged and being able to get overwhelming critical with the preqs dropped, but I will most likely wait until things go live, Turbine is not above a last minute tweak.



  
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Kluege
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #29 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 9:25pm
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Munkenmo wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:29pm:
3 rogue provides 6extra dex, it's too much to pass up.


There aren't enough feats on a 14pally/6monk to fit in bow strength (pre-req weapon focused ranged).  Compounding the issue though is how many AP you've gotta blow on picking up Grace.  It's why I prefer a half-elf int based harper,  qualifies for damage boost and no need to go beyond 14ap in the racial tree.


Looked at the elf tree.  I have 19 points into it to get both AA and dex bonus.

Harper tree takes 6 points to get int bonus.

Sun Elf take 14 points to get AA.

20 points to get AA and int bonus vs 19 points to get AA and dex bonus.

Sun elf get +15 hps (assume 3 points to that one) and +1 to Spell Power and to hit evil.  Elf gets 2 more ranks of +1 damage.

Combat Archery still has the 21 dex requirement.
  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #30 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 10:02pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:19pm:
Why not 10K instead of 3 rogue levels?


6 Dex > 10k stars..

10k sucks in comparison to doubleshot, in my opinion. Sure its great if you can break 46ish wisdom, but i find doubleshot to be better overall w/o the 10k debuff. Now, if 10k used Dex instead of Wisdom.. Id be having fun.. Cheesy
  
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harharharhar
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #31 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 10:35pm
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Munkenmo wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 3:54pm:
I'm liking the int option from harper tree, especially since it's the only way to get ranged spell power atm.

From testing though I don't really feel like a 14p/6monk is better or more dps than a 12m/6ranger/2x build.  The extra crit mod is nice an all, but if you're not investing in the pally trees taking elf/sun elf means you're also passing up damage boost. I toyed with the idea of an int sun elf, but half elf just seems to give a better return on ap mostly thanks to damage boost.

I am very much liking 14pally/3monk/3rogue tossers though, no manyshot and ninja spy core 2 makes it so much easier.  But for bow users, imo,  holy sword doesn't making up for losing out on sniper shot, movement, defenses & the stacking str benefits.


Nailed it.

14 Pal Monkchers currently don't offer all that much over a 12/6/2, IMO as well. Not enough feats, enhancements are really tight. You sacrifice a lot. I will say however that if you just skip Fury altogether and stick with Blitz, you can ditch slayer arrows and make 14/6 work, I think. Another option is just go 14Pally/6Ranger and do a juggernaut style build that TWF's when it's not Manyshotting. Could be a lot of fun, and works with any race.

But I am really excited for the 14/3/3 thrower Smiley
  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #32 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 10:41pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:19pm:
Not sure what you mean here. What stacking str bonus and why couldnt 14/6 get that?


Why not 10K instead of 3 rogue levels?


Most people's Wisdom score at end game sits around 36-40, realistically and maintainable-y. Some can get it higher but most don't. That's about 40% full time Doubleshot (maybe slightly less, since 10K requires you to spawn an extra hit to roll for the next extra hit).

40%, if you have 3 PL's, isn't that hard to get anymore. Then you only need 3 monk levels. Also, if you start to get up into the 50-60% Doubleshot range (DC), 10K really starts looking lackluster.

This is why Tinkerhell is /3 Monk. And smashes face. I'm actually considering a /3 Monk Pally build that would be uncentered based on new shields available in game and paladin enhancements. Haven't worked it all out yet, but you could wear heavy armor and large/shield and be really indestructo, with some interesting offhand effects as well.

I think I would call it old Iron Sides, or the Abrams.

*I have not worked out the details and I just started thinking about such a build this morning, there might be reasons it won't work I haven't thought of yet.
  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #33 - Sep 3rd, 2014 at 7:39am
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harharharhar wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 10:35pm:
Nailed it.

14 Pal Monkchers currently don't offer all that much over a 12/6/2, IMO as well. Not enough feats, enhancements are really tight. You sacrifice a lot. I will say however that if you just skip Fury altogether and stick with Blitz, you can ditch slayer arrows and make 14/6 work, I think. Another option is just go 14Pally/6Ranger and do a juggernaut style build that TWF's when it's not Manyshotting. Could be a lot of fun, and works with any race.

But I am really excited for the 14/3/3 thrower Smiley


I tried 14/3/3 elf, taking elf AA capstone and playing in fury, was quite nice. CC was shitty, but the burst damage on bosses/large groups of trash compensated for it, ymmv.

  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #34 - Sep 3rd, 2014 at 8:01am
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NOTSunnyshadow wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 3:57pm:
You still play?

Does nobody ever read his replies? He says this every time - he downloads Lama occasionally to check stuff out then exits again.
  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #35 - Sep 3rd, 2014 at 8:05am
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Re: Fury - last I tested Monkchers neither needed it nor would miss it much. The game is doable enough without it. I stopped playing in it after seeing what the changed slayer arrows could do. It was boring easy button time & what's the point in that? Also future proofs you somewhat if you don't always play on the bleeding edge of FOTM builds, if you're too lazy to respec every other update.

(Or play at all Tongue)
« Last Edit: Sep 3rd, 2014 at 8:05am by kum-gulp »  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #36 - Sep 3rd, 2014 at 10:07am
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In Fury ED, Holy sword takes the TF Longbow from 19-20 to 17-20.  I think it is worth it.  Currently back up to 16k - 24k damage per arrow with pin-->manyshot--> adrenaline-->slayer combo.

8.3{1d8} with holy sword active.

Other things I noticed:

Holy Sword did not increase crit range for Pinion.

LD Pulverizer does not seem to work with blunt ammo anymore

Holy Sword did stack with Divine Crusader to 15-20.
  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #37 - Sep 3rd, 2014 at 10:18am
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Pinion is a custom threat range, it should apply to everything.

Pinion not benefitting from holy sword is a bug, or a trsting mistake
« Last Edit: Sep 3rd, 2014 at 10:21am by harharharhar »  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #38 - Sep 3rd, 2014 at 12:15pm
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harharharhar wrote on Sep 3rd, 2014 at 10:18am:
Pinion is a custom threat range, it should apply to everything.

Pinion not benefitting from holy sword is a bug, or a trsting mistake


Just saying it didn't work, not theorizing on why.  Hopefully that gets fixed.  If so, possibly 13-20 crit range in Divine Crusader?  Could be a reason to use it again.
  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #39 - Sep 3rd, 2014 at 12:35pm
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Kluege wrote on Sep 3rd, 2014 at 12:15pm:
Just saying it didn't work, not theorizing on why.  Hopefully that gets fixed.  If so, possibly 13-20 crit range in Divine Crusader?  Could be a reason to use it again.


Have you actually tested that? Item description  is still borked, both of them (inventory and inventory->details)
Pulverizer doesn't stack with holy sword, so that might be the issue if you had the spell casted.
  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #40 - Sep 3rd, 2014 at 12:48pm
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Limpgimp wrote on Sep 3rd, 2014 at 12:35pm:
Pulverizer doesn't stack with holy sword, so that might be the issue if you had the spell casted.


Same thing with staff specialization, that really pissed me off :/
  

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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #41 - Sep 3rd, 2014 at 12:52pm
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Alex DeLarge wrote on Sep 3rd, 2014 at 12:48pm:
Same thing with staff specialization, that really pissed me off :/


Sireth doesn't qualify for pulverizer in any case (it works with actual damage type not weapon type, hence the bow "feature")
  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #42 - Sep 3rd, 2014 at 1:00pm
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Kluege wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 4:34pm:
How much do you need to invest into Harper to get the Int bonus?
INT to hit is in Tier 1, INT to damage is in Tier 2. So I guess 7 AP unless they change things.
  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #43 - Sep 4th, 2014 at 4:57pm
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Pulverizer did not seem to work regardless of holy sword.  I can retest, but I believe I tested that before applying holy sword.
  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #44 - Sep 4th, 2014 at 5:00pm
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Oyster wrote on Sep 3rd, 2014 at 1:00pm:
INT to hit is in Tier 1, INT to damage is in Tier 2. So I guess 7 AP unless they change things.


I think it was 6 total... 5 with base +4 in tier 1, then +dam is 1 point.  (seemed like it should be 2 pts) Either way, 20 points to get int damage and AA, while only 19 to do it with elf and dex damage.  You will also need to dump a few points to get 21 dex for combat archery.
  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #45 - Sep 5th, 2014 at 2:08pm
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If Zeal along with Holy Sword pan out to be the higher DPS than using 10k stars, I may dump the idea of 6 monk and go 15 pally (2 lvl 4 spells slots) 4 fighter (3 extra feats) 2 monk (for evasion and stance access).  Dex based Elf (Grace) with some into charisma.

Maybe one day they will make it useful to have ranger levels and use a bow at some point.
  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #46 - Sep 5th, 2014 at 2:27pm
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Kluege wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 2:08pm:
aybe one day they will make it useful to have ranger levels and use a bow at some point.

DWS>>Monkcher. This ad has been paid for by Brezren.
  

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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #47 - Sep 5th, 2014 at 2:52pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 2:27pm:
DWS>>Monkcher. This ad has been paid for by Brezren.


I'll have to look into full DWS vs holy sword and zeal then as well on Lam.  Too many things to test now.  I have to think it is a dex based / grace build?
  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #48 - Sep 5th, 2014 at 3:31pm
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until they nerf Slayer + Fury arrow + Manyshot, this will remain the best ranged (bow) buuld.

So far they don't seem to be nerfing it. But I haven't tested the new changes.

Rangers were never meant to be fulltime bow characters. That's why you have to splash to make the best full time bow users. At least, that's how I think of it.

Rangers were supposed to be the original Juggernaut, but they suck is all.
  
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Re: U23 Archer Discussion
Reply #49 - Sep 5th, 2014 at 3:37pm
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Kluege wrote on Sep 5th, 2014 at 2:52pm:
I'll have to look into full DWS vs holy sword and zeal then as well on Lam.  Too many things to test now.  I have to think it is a dex based / grace build?


Do frequent Orien server and know who Brezren is?  Grin
  

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