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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) The Trees Shall Rise Again (Read 233828 times)
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #525 - May 31st, 2016 at 9:10pm
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Go away Bioboy. Seriously, everyone here knows your routine, so go rip off people on the mobos cause it ain't flying here.

  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #526 - May 31st, 2016 at 9:48pm
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Earlier in this thread there was conversation about base weapon damage for increased damage in tree form and mentioned twinblade and axe of famine.

Would love explanation of how base weapon damage affects tree form? How does it work with different weapon base damage in each hand? I imagine weapon effects work on tree form like they do for wolf form, but I would love confirmation.

A good easy to center monk weapon with increase die is Epic Sting at 1d12 shortsword - no clue if that helps with builds or not.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Sting

Anyway been playing around some with tree. Still trying to decide if I like it or not. Guess I need to try an amazing version of it.
  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #527 - Jun 3rd, 2016 at 11:50am
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More random info:

Longswords with Whirling Strike does proc 4+ strikes with whirlwind in tree form.

Pretty sure its still crappy choice, but hell tested it.
  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #528 - Jun 3rd, 2016 at 3:00pm
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How does Improved shield bash function with Tree? Does it work at all?

Anyone want to post their updated enchantment tree selections?
  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #529 - Jun 4th, 2016 at 3:02pm
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SpaceGoat wrote on Jun 3rd, 2016 at 3:00pm:
Anyone want to post their updated enchantment tree selections?

ok
  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #530 - Jun 12th, 2016 at 12:03am
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Latest gear set?
  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #531 - Jun 14th, 2016 at 8:06pm
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Just curious what effects did people prioritize when selecting gear for Trees?

Looks like first priority is Melee Power.
Then Doublestrike?
Any other important things to focus on for gear?

Thanks
  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #532 - Jun 15th, 2016 at 12:45am
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Hey, Tilo!
Is supreme cleave still splittable to different cooldowns? thx
  

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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #533 - Jun 15th, 2016 at 8:54am
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Are trees still worth it? With the trash hitting so hard you need to heal to full after you get hit otherwise you're going to die on next and trees have difficulty on that. Also, to hit is kinda low insn't it? After seeing what furyshoters are doing (https://youtu.be/zdIF0FnaNYw?t=15m32s) I don't think any other non caster is worth it, except bugged wolf or pure ranger  (maybe)
« Last Edit: Jun 15th, 2016 at 8:56am by Vaultaccount »  
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Tilo
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #534 - Jun 15th, 2016 at 12:52pm
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Y&Y

12 man shroud is commendable. Hell I just pug EH when I feel like it. But others are doing 6 with trees.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/475964-LE-Shroud-6-Man

Did you see the calculation for cleave damage on the prior page?

http://www.ddovault.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1413820369/495#495
« Last Edit: Jun 15th, 2016 at 12:54pm by »  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #535 - Jun 16th, 2016 at 9:11am
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Y&Y

12 man shroud is commendable. Hell I just pug EH when I feel like it. But others are doing 6 with trees.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/475964-LE-Shroud-6-Man

Did you see the calculation for cleave damage on the prior page?

http://www.ddovault.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1413820369/495#495


Don't be an idiot. 66 min 6 man, and 2 trees only, who cares.

By the way, the video I linked had 4 furyshoters and no trees, and that's actually the world speed record on LE Shroud.

And your not impressing when you say you can pug EH shroud lol.

Edit: are you Tilomare?
« Last Edit: Jun 16th, 2016 at 12:37pm by Vaultaccount »  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #536 - Jun 16th, 2016 at 12:41pm
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Vaultaccount wrote on Jun 16th, 2016 at 9:11am:
Don't be an idiot. Obviously there is only 1 tree on that group. What are you trying so hard to proof that you say such nonsense that any tard can confirm is wrong just looking at the picture?

By the way, the video I linked had 4 furyshoters and no trees, and that's actually the world speed record on LE Shroud.

And your not impressing when you say you can pug EH shroud lol.


I don't think Tilo is taking away from fury shooters but rather making a case (a good case) for trees.
In the 6 man run I count:
1 shiradi (probably 10/6/4)
1 DC wizard (pure)
1 Rogue/Arti mechanic (probably 18/2)
1 warlock (probably pure and definitely 15+ for hurl)
And last but not least:
2 trees (the monk icons).

You are right about LE hitting real hard but don't forget that the monk based trees have a lot of defenses for miss chance (displacement, incorporeal, dodge, some AC) meaning when swong upon they will be missed a lot.
With shining through they can probably take a couple hits and maybe even three with some healing in between.
Smart players will move around while cleaving and have the mobs circle round instead of swinging full time. Between the DC caster, the nerve venom shiradi and the warlock blasts the trees will probably be able to moe down mobs chasing ranged party members that got initial agro or enjoy destroying held/nerve venomed mobs.

Believe in the tree Wink
  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #537 - Jun 16th, 2016 at 12:44pm
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Can anyone post the likely monk tree builds?
  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #538 - Jun 16th, 2016 at 3:22pm
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Vaultaccount wrote on Jun 15th, 2016 at 8:54am:
After seeing what furyshoters are doing (https://youtu.be/zdIF0FnaNYw?t=15m32s) I don't think any other non caster is worth it, except bugged wolf or pure ranger  (maybe)

I would love to see exactly what build they're using.

I've been running a 12/6/2 rgr/monk/ftr shuri for several months now.  I can give wolves and instakillers a run for their money and am generally top two or three in KCs on the end game raids.  None of the trees I've run raids with lately have impressed me much.  The numbers the shuri build is putting out in that video look higher than what I'm used to seeing though. 

In FotW, I'm generally sitting around 76ish Dex with non-store buffs, 90-100 ranged power, ~60% DS w/ 4 stacks of Killer (don't have the Primal PLs yet) and 380ish Force spellpower.  I suspect part of it is from mobs being fully debuffed since it's a raid, but it's still interesting.

Guessing from the hotbars and icon he's running a variation of this.  The main difference I see is T5 in AA with Slayer and Elemental Damage instead of T5 in DWS.  Slayer shot and the extra spellpower and imbue dmg die explain some of the numbers but they are getting higher base damage and SA than what I've been able to squeeze out of DWS T5 which is the puzzling part.   

May have to give experiment with this before I do a full TR. 
« Last Edit: Jun 16th, 2016 at 4:01pm by Digimonk »  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #539 - Jun 17th, 2016 at 8:06pm
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Wight wrote on Jun 16th, 2016 at 12:44pm:
Can anyone post the likely monk tree builds?


Warlock versions:
12 monk 6 warlock 2 palie, double boost some saves lays for some burst heal and warlock for stacks
12 warlock 6 monk 2 palie, no abud step, no imp evasion but has better aura ticks to sutain tree longer /you lose alot of sustain without the ticks

Cleric versions:
12 monk 5 cleric 3 palie, t5 in cleric for aura tick and palie for lays, not optimal now

Wizzard version:
12 monk 5 palie 3 wiz, good aura tick and defense, abuse better w cleaves in palie tree, most animation reset attacks and hits  out of all tree builds
9 monk 5 palie 6 wiz, has displace for selfcast

Fighter versions:
Generally centerd monk with some kind aura ticks, not to impressed with them myself
Tried 12 fighter 4 monk 4 wiz, 12 fighter 6 warlock 2 monk 12 monk 5 fighter 3 wiz and 12 monk 5 fighter 3 warlock.
12 warlock 6 fighter 2 monk is ok but no defenses.
Issue is burst healing, while i do have slightly more mellepower the lack of lays from palie really hurts in le content when you want to full time zerg

There are couple others as well, but generally 12 monk  + xxx and generally transfering monk plife and reinforced fists will give you slightly more damage when using hwraps over kamas, tho kamas allow for better gear setups.

Hope it helps
« Last Edit: Jun 17th, 2016 at 8:12pm by Lelouch »  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #540 - Jun 18th, 2016 at 7:02am
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Digimonk wrote on Jun 16th, 2016 at 3:22pm:
I would love to see exactly what build they're using.

I've been running a 12/6/2 rgr/monk/ftr shuri for several months now.  I can give wolves and instakillers a run for their money and am generally top two or three in KCs on the end game raids.  None of the trees I've run raids with lately have impressed me much.  The numbers the shuri build is putting out in that video look higher than what I'm used to seeing though. 

In FotW, I'm generally sitting around 76ish Dex with non-store buffs, 90-100 ranged power, ~60% DS w/ 4 stacks of Killer (don't have the Primal PLs yet) and 380ish Force spellpower.  I suspect part of it is from mobs being fully debuffed since it's a raid, but it's still interesting.

Guessing from the hotbars and icon he's running a variation of this.  The main difference I see is T5 in AA with Slayer and Elemental Damage instead of T5 in DWS.  Slayer shot and the extra spellpower and imbue dmg die explain some of the numbers but they are getting higher base damage and SA than what I've been able to squeeze out of DWS T5 which is the puzzling part.   

May have to give experiment with this before I do a full TR. 


Some limited reverse engineering and observations from video have led me to these conclusions:
1) Elf/Helf for access to shadow arrows crit multiplier (don't have any clue why as I was told the racial version was bugged?)
2) Takes paralyzing arrow although obviously doesn't use it as its not on hotbar (i suppose it could be hidden)
3) Perma in earth stance (as +1 ki regen is enough if you use bow as much as he uses)
4) Not sure but pretty sure he's using LGS triple neg bow
5) 6 AP in ANT for obvious reasons
6) Takes guardian angel (not relevant to AP but obviously not completely optimized for dps in this case)
7) Does not take killer or thrill of the hunt or aimed shot, likely 11ish AP investment in DWS for sniper shot only
8) 8 points in harper for kta

14 (racial), 11 (DWS), 6 (Ninja), 8 (Harper), 41 (Arcane Archer)

Would be my guess. Whether this is better or not, I have no clue (a bit tired at the moment) - going to be running numbers later when I'm more sober.

In the meantime, would love to see your dex breakdown? I sit at roughly 70 (though I am missing 2 from completionist on that toon).
« Last Edit: Jun 18th, 2016 at 7:57am by Dr Faustus »  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #541 - Jun 18th, 2016 at 9:14am
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SayWhatAgain wrote on Jun 16th, 2016 at 12:41pm:
I don't think Tilo is taking away from fury shooters but rather making a case (a good case) for trees.
In the 6 man run I count:
1 shiradi (probably 10/6/4)
1 DC wizard (pure)
1 Rogue/Arti mechanic (probably 18/2)
1 warlock (probably pure and definitely 15+ for hurl)
And last but not least:
2 trees (the monk icons).

You are right about LE hitting real hard but don't forget that the monk based trees have a lot of defenses for miss chance (displacement, incorporeal, dodge, some AC) meaning when swong upon they will be missed a lot.
With shining through they can probably take a couple hits and maybe even three with some healing in between.
Smart players will move around while cleaving and have the mobs circle round instead of swinging full time. Between the DC caster, the nerve venom shiradi and the warlock blasts the trees will probably be able to moe down mobs chasing ranged party members that got initial agro or enjoy destroying held/nerve venomed mobs.

Believe in the tree Wink

~
Who cares about kill count. Shroud is basically portal DPS in part 1, suvivability against red named in part 2, burst DPS in part 4 and 5. You could argue that tree is better portal DPS, I'm not so sure, but ranged obviously rocks part 2, 4 and 5 (and is better at 3 too to break crystal but who cares).
  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #542 - Jun 18th, 2016 at 1:03pm
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Dr Faustus wrote on Jun 18th, 2016 at 7:02am:
Some limited reverse engineering and observations from video have led me to these conclusions:
1) Elf/Helf for access to shadow arrows crit multiplier (don't have any clue why as I was told the racial version was bugged?)
2) Takes paralyzing arrow although obviously doesn't use it as its not on hotbar (i suppose it could be hidden)
3) Perma in earth stance (as +1 ki regen is enough if you use bow as much as he uses)
4) Not sure but pretty sure he's using LGS triple neg bow
5) 6 AP in ANT for obvious reasons
6) Takes guardian angel (not relevant to AP but obviously not completely optimized for dps in this case)
7) Does not take killer or thrill of the hunt or aimed shot, likely 11ish AP investment in DWS for sniper shot only
8) 8 points in harper for kta

14 (racial), 11 (DWS), 6 (Ninja), 8 (Harper), 41 (Arcane Archer)

Would be my guess. Whether this is better or not, I have no clue (a bit tired at the moment) - going to be running numbers later when I'm more sober.

In the meantime, would love to see your dex breakdown? I sit at roughly 70 (though I am missing 2 from completionist on that toon).

He's definitely running at least 6 ranger levels due to Ram's Might and Sniper Shot being hotkeyed.

I swapped to T5 AA instead of DWS and ran some missions and raids with it.   It's gives better results when all boosts are going (fury/adrenaline, 10ks/manyshot, dual action boosts) but noticeably less DPS the rest of the time due to less doubleshot, ranged power and dex.

After testing, I still prefer T5 DWS.

« Last Edit: Jun 18th, 2016 at 1:04pm by Digimonk »  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #543 - Jun 18th, 2016 at 3:46pm
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Digimonk wrote on Jun 18th, 2016 at 1:03pm:
He's definitely running at least 6 ranger levels due to Ram's Might and Sniper Shot being hotkeyed.

I swapped to T5 AA instead of DWS and ran some missions and raids with it.   It's gives better results when all boosts are going (fury/adrenaline, 10ks/manyshot, dual action boosts) but noticeably less DPS the rest of the time due to less doubleshot, ranged power and dex.

After testing, I still prefer T5 DWS.



The AP split I posted is 100% what he is running.

If you just switched to T5 Arcane archer without capstone (and core 5), you are missing a few severe dps boosts.

Core 5 is a crit multiplier (if it works), a 5% doubleshot secondary imbue for bows.
Capstone is 20% doubleshot and 4 dex (remember 1 dex ~= 1-2% dps boost depending on how much dex you have).

Overall you come out ahead on dex, equal on doubleshot. The big difference is you are trading 35 ranged power (archers stance) and ~8 damage on hit for 1 crit multiplier on bows, 5% doubleshot on bows, slayer arrow, 5 to-hit, and 2 elemental arrow imbue dice.

I have a feeling this will be the way to go - 5 to-hit roughly translates to 1 less grazing hit on LE. As long as the damage is even remotely similar from a sustained dps point of view, the AA wins hands down due to increased burst. (Spiky damage is almost always better than sustained damage if equal magnitude when compared over time).

I unfortunately went human due to wanting the extra feat so I can't test this version. Once lamm comes up will be doing dps tests to compare. If the crit multiplier is working (and from doing some rough calcs, it has to be in order for people to be hitting those adrenaline + slayer arrow + multishot combos), this version should come out ahead. Unfortunately, it does require using the bow A LOT more, which means spacing out adrenaline regen on shuriken vs bow will be a little trickier.
  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #544 - Jun 19th, 2016 at 12:56am
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Digimonk wrote on Jun 16th, 2016 at 3:22pm:
Guessing from the hotbars and icon he's running a variation of this

He's running 12/6/2 (mnk/rgr/ftr) based on character sheet at 10:00 mark.
  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #545 - Jun 20th, 2016 at 2:38pm
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ChewyOoeyGoOey wrote on Jun 19th, 2016 at 12:56am:
He's running 12/6/2 (mnk/rgr/ftr) based on character sheet at 10:00 mark.

Nice catch.  I missed that when I watched it.  Thank you.

This is an interesting variation on the original 12/6/2.   Hadn't thought about using elf AA tree for access to the capstone when you already have 6 ranger levels.  There are some decent advantages to this.  Might have to try this out in the near future.
« Last Edit: Jun 20th, 2016 at 2:52pm by Digimonk »  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #546 - Jun 23rd, 2016 at 11:54pm
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SayWhatAgain wrote on Jun 16th, 2016 at 12:41pm:
I don't think Tilo is taking away from fury shooters but rather making a case (a good case) for trees.
In the 6 man run I count:
1 shiradi (probably 10/6/4)
1 DC wizard (pure)
1 Rogue/Arti mechanic (probably 18/2)
1 warlock (probably pure and definitely 15+ for hurl)
And last but not least:
2 trees (the monk icons).

You are right about LE hitting real hard but don't forget that the monk based trees have a lot of defenses for miss chance (displacement, incorporeal, dodge, some AC) meaning when swong upon they will be missed a lot.
With shining through they can probably take a couple hits and maybe even three with some healing in between.
Smart players will move around while cleaving and have the mobs circle round instead of swinging full time. Between the DC caster, the nerve venom shiradi and the warlock blasts the trees will probably be able to moe down mobs chasing ranged party members that got initial agro or enjoy destroying held/nerve venomed mobs.

Believe in the tree Wink

morkass is a thrower ranit is a 12/6/2 tree
  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #547 - Jun 24th, 2016 at 1:23am
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Definitely not Sulay wrote on Jun 23rd, 2016 at 11:54pm:
morkass is a thrower ranit is a 12/6/2 tree

and curing is a gimp no matter what build he's on ;p
  

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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #548 - Jun 24th, 2016 at 3:50pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Jun 24th, 2016 at 1:23am:
and curing is a gimp no matter what build he's on ;p

accurate.
  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #549 - Jun 26th, 2016 at 8:08am
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Wizard based tree build.

Death aura not proccing arcane warrior melee power.

that normal?

too bad if so
« Last Edit: Jul 2nd, 2016 at 4:09pm by ElGuapo »  

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