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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) The Trees Shall Rise Again (Read 233273 times)
ElGuapo
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #550 - Jul 2nd, 2016 at 4:17pm
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anyone?
  

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Tilo
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #551 - Jul 13th, 2016 at 3:49pm
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Basic wiz tree build

17 Wiz 3 Barb - Dwarf
Max con-all level ups in con.

Enhancements: Fill out Ek, 6 PM for zombie, 13 AM for MM/ Bolt SLA, 13 for Supreme Cleave

Feats

1 PA,
1 Wiz Maximize
3 Cleave
5 Empower
6 TWF
9 Great Cleave (Bab 4)
10 Quicken
12 ITWF
15 SM
15 Wiz Extend
Barb 18-20 ISM
21 GTWF (Bab 11)
24 MoK
26 PTWF
27 Shield Deflection
28 Elusive Target
29 Arcane Warrior
30 Scion of Arborea
30 CE

ED: PA with Consecrate/Sacred Ground/LSM/ICE twisted

Arcane bolt between cleaves will fuel MoK, increasing healing, arcane warrior for damage, and spirit for tree form. Consecrate will heal tree form. Negative energy will heal zombie form. Melee charges arcane warrior for more healing.

Max/Emp/Quicken SLAs and firewall between cleaves will get you through heroics. An Axe of Famine will be best in slot weapon.

Can move barb levels/extend up for more melee oriented leveling. LGS vacuum would also rock, or lgs hamp devo affirmation.

Leverage zombie con + barb rage con + wiz tensor's con + wiz rage spell con + madstone rage con + TYWA + cleaves to bypass zombie slower attack speed + extend to make spells last through rage + barb move speed/sprint boost in heroics if you want some speedy self-healing axe murdering. Since undead are immune to exhaustion, you can rage without penalty!

Feel free to modify if you want to add in defensive stance + fighter/pali lvls.
« Last Edit: Jul 13th, 2016 at 4:02pm by »  
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ElGuapo
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #552 - Jul 26th, 2016 at 1:28am
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its a bitch having to turn on zombie form every time you come out of tree.   and no overwhelming critical sucks.   whats the doublestrike on this build?
  

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Tilo
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #553 - Jul 26th, 2016 at 5:30pm
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no idea
  
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Rubbinns
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #554 - Jul 26th, 2016 at 8:57pm
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There is around 8 from the EK tree, depending how much ap is spent for cores. 5 from epic feat. 4 quality on avenger plate, 17 rng loot, 7 insightful necklace. 41. 9 epic past lives = 50.
« Last Edit: Jul 26th, 2016 at 8:57pm by Rubbinns »  

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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #555 - May 2nd, 2017 at 8:16am
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As handwraps are now exotic weapons does this mean that centered trees using handwraps now default to D20 instead of D6?
  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #556 - May 4th, 2017 at 3:14am
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Maybe.

I didn't really count the dices or the averages, but my monk using handwraps seems to clear rooms with sufficient effect.

For background info, base damage with wraps is 4.25[W], so first growth should be 22.5[W] - never checked. Melee power is around 85, deadly item +7, handwraps are +8 with EPL:s.

shitty video
  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #557 - May 4th, 2017 at 5:30pm
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For all the talk and hype about tree builds over the past few years, I've yet to group with anyone running one that actually impressed me. 

From the videos and discussions I've seen, I get the impression that they may be really good solo builds due to their durability and big hits but it doesn't seem to translate well in a good group setting.  I suspect it is because they're slow and everything is dead before they get more than a few cleaves in.

Plenty of the tree builds I've grouped with were run by players who are usually highly competent, so I wouldn't expect that to be the issue.

Am I missing something?
  
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Toke
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #558 - May 4th, 2017 at 6:38pm
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Had a group that the tree dud soloed one half of eh doj while the rest of us dealt with the rest.  So, still a semi-solo situation as you're pointing out, but it was impressive.
  

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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #559 - May 4th, 2017 at 11:07pm
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Toke wrote on May 4th, 2017 at 6:38pm:
Had a group that the tree dud soloed one half of eh doj while the rest of us dealt with the rest.  So, still a semi-solo situation as you're pointing out, but it was impressive.

There are multiple builds that can do that though.  From what I've seen, some of those builds can most likely do it better.
  
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Lelouch
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #560 - May 5th, 2017 at 9:09am
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Digimonk wrote on May 4th, 2017 at 5:30pm:
For all the talk and hype about tree builds over the past few years, I've yet to group with anyone running one that actually impressed me. 

From the videos and discussions I've seen, I get the impression that they may be really good solo builds due to their durability and big hits but it doesn't seem to translate well in a good group setting.  I suspect it is because they're slow and everything is dead before they get more than a few cleaves in.

Plenty of the tree builds I've grouped with were run by players who are usually highly competent, so I wouldn't expect that to be the issue.

Am I missing something?


Several things.
First tree builds are the fastest builds we have atm /monk based since they are superior.
Your approach to enemies and massive pulls are usually on a different scale then other builds as you can pull quite alot of junk.
2nd, they are extremely defense focused as you have high prr/dodge/conceal/ac and massive hp pools that tend not to drop as fast as for other melees.
3rd, as you have acess to balanced your wws and cleaves make enemes most of the time helpess /as you aslso have noticable d strike.
4th, depending how its built tree builds have selfheals

Now it sounds like im praising tree builds to much, but there are counters to trees that are quite obvious in current ddo, and that is reaper above 5 skulls where you actually need some kind of babysitter healer and the fact that they are working in content above lv 20 and are practically end game at cap builds.
Those 2 facts alone mean that tree builds are pretty much dead as ddo atm is all about the rush from 1-20, but once the rush is done i assume that they will be back, those ap in racial tree allow for much flexibility and cr load melee power as we can now swap out of human.


They are ok and top at level cap builds, and they work perfectly fine in most content.
Still due to the fact that the prolonged fights have massive obstacles due to reduced damage in high tier reaper, the managment of spirit becomes quite a hussle and swaping out and in of form drains sp quite fast.
They have many drawbacks with reaper, although the build i  soloed reaper 10 skulls as melee on lama when it first appeared /aka not a single reaper ap spent as that wasnt ingame yet, was exactly a form and version of my personal strongest tree builds.


I can analyze every benefit and drawback and share a vid i did to show how i farmed slavers back then, but it wont benefit anyone at this point as i havent checkd whats going in ddo the last 2 months /loss of interest after racial tr made it ingame/ as my info could be severly outdated.


tldr, they have many benefits and many drawbacks, but they are practically at level cap builds for speedrunning content with a bunch of bots, and since focus of the game now is 1-20 rtr they lost their spot in the game imho
  
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Digimonk
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #561 - May 5th, 2017 at 12:59pm
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Lelouch wrote on May 5th, 2017 at 9:09am:
Several things.
First tree builds are the fastest builds we have atm /monk based since they are superior.
Your approach to enemies and massive pulls are usually on a different scale then other builds as you can pull quite alot of junk.
2nd, they are extremely defense focused as you have high prr/dodge/conceal/ac and massive hp pools that tend not to drop as fast as for other melees.
3rd, as you have acess to balanced your wws and cleaves make enemes most of the time helpess /as you aslso have noticable d strike.
4th, depending how its built tree builds have selfheals

Now it sounds like im praising tree builds to much, but there are counters to trees that are quite obvious in current ddo, and that is reaper above 5 skulls where you actually need some kind of babysitter healer and the fact that they are working in content above lv 20 and are practically end game at cap builds.
Those 2 facts alone mean that tree builds are pretty much dead as ddo atm is all about the rush from 1-20, but once the rush is done i assume that they will be back, those ap in racial tree allow for much flexibility and cr load melee power as we can now swap out of human.


They are ok and top at level cap builds, and they work perfectly fine in most content.
Still due to the fact that the prolonged fights have massive obstacles due to reduced damage in high tier reaper, the managment of spirit becomes quite a hussle and swaping out and in of form drains sp quite fast.
They have many drawbacks with reaper, although the build i  soloed reaper 10 skulls as melee on lama when it first appeared /aka not a single reaper ap spent as that wasnt ingame yet, was exactly a form and version of my personal strongest tree builds.


I can analyze every benefit and drawback and share a vid i did to show how i farmed slavers back then, but it wont benefit anyone at this point as i havent checkd whats going in ddo the last 2 months /loss of interest after racial tr made it ingame/ as my info could be severly outdated.


tldr, they have many benefits and many drawbacks, but they are practically at level cap builds for speedrunning content with a bunch of bots, and since focus of the game now is 1-20 rtr they lost their spot in the game imho

Fastest at what? 

You used a wall of text to essentially say "They're terrible group builds but great at soloing (carrying a bot army)." which I had already suggested.

I've watched more videos than I should have trying to figure out what makes trees worthy of a 25 page thread and just don't see it.

Sure, they get big numbers on their hits, but their hit rate is slow.  Other builds can hit for similar numbers at a much higher rate.  They're good at clearing hordes of trash but so are Warlocks, Shiradis, and several other AE based builds.

Any time I've ever seen them in a group setting, half the mobs die before trees even start attacking.  I realize the animations with trees are wonky, but the kill counts at the ends of missions seems to support what I see visually.


  
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Lelouch
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #562 - May 5th, 2017 at 6:04pm
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Digimonk wrote on May 5th, 2017 at 12:59pm:
Fastest at what? 

You used a wall of text to essentially say "They're terrible group builds but great at soloing (carrying a bot army)." which I had already suggested.

I've watched more videos than I should have trying to figure out what makes trees worthy of a 25 page thread and just don't see it.

Sure, they get big numbers on their hits, but their hit rate is slow.  Other builds can hit for similar numbers at a much higher rate.  They're good at clearing hordes of trash but so are Warlocks, Shiradis, and several other AE based builds.

Any time I've ever seen them in a group setting, half the mobs die before trees even start attacking.  I realize the animations with trees are wonky, but the kill counts at the ends of missions seems to support what I see visually.




They are highly skill cap based builds, so if the kill count is not being lead by a tree in your group he/she is playing it wrong (or not using abudant step correctly and managing alert).

You should play with perma red alert as tree and clear only when you cannot move, which obstructs other builds in your party and makes them a burden, unless they are bots in your inv.
It doesnt matter if they are shiradis or warlocks or whatever, what those builds cannot do is have all those defensive layers that allow them for pure braindead zerging, and most videos people post about tree builds arent really doing it correctly either imho.

Also, most people can excel playing a warlock because the class is easily mastered as it hides no real thinking behind it compared to other builds/classes.
(my main is also a warlock and i found it tedious after 1 or 2 lifes and dont even log in anymore as its extremely boring, effective yes, but extremely boring).


Why trees have so many pages is based on how the build evolved, first we had the old animation resets where most people here didnt know about trees, then we have the new animations and cleaves and further we had also some block animation reseters, couple years after that and some fixes from turbine we got the first tree that was posted here the cleric one, what further happens in this thread are calculations and talks about how weapons transfer, how animations work, and multiple builds that focus on different way of spirit regen.

Imho, tree builds had the most changed, and were evolving so many times, same as throwers, which kinda made them require such a thread.

When you for example make a warlock thread, you basically cant invent anything, you cant figure out anything new, all you can really do is just write bugs with blasts and what items stack incorrectly and how to bug out some items to work in heroic content.
None of those has anything to do with warlock, but with other outside factors intereacting poorly with warlock stuff.

Complicated builds that change entirely with system changes ingame like /i use as example shuri and tree but there are more out there/ require a thread which follows how they evolve.

Il repeat it again, you take it how you want, they are highly skill based builds that hide several layers of mechanical issues and bugs behind their playstyle, thus they are hard to copy and executed correctly, but they, same as any build focusing on epic right now, are dead.
It doesnt matter how good a build is nowadays, it doesnt matter shiradi or whatever, epic just doesnt matter as game shifter toward lv 1-20, and that is why you wont see many builds posted here that focus on epic content.
What we do now is make builds that work from lv 2-18 to gather the most easiest and fastest reaper xp.
And that isnt a hard taske as warlock and some ranged offer the simplest kits to do so.


I suggest that you move on from trees, unless you have finished all racial trs, they just arent viable for usage ingame.

  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #563 - May 5th, 2017 at 6:13pm
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And to add, hit rate of tree builds depends on how you look at it and how you build them.
If you make a barb tree, yes you will have few attacks and will need to incorporate some slow ass attacks into your rotation.
With monk and some other additions you have no free times if you do it right for slow attacks as you cycle between fast anim reset attacks layered with quite nice d strike which gives them a respectable hit rate, increased by dice of their base damage and monk levels. /positive thing is that the formula for damage works different for tree as opposed to other builds

Why you havent seen a proper kobold speedkill for dps from tree builds to compare with lets say wolf builds /that had when i still played the single best single target dps/ is simply because the whole place acts as a inn and resets your spirit so you can never start the speedtest as you do in your regular gameplay.

But it all doesnt matter now anyways. (wont be bothered to edit posts and fix typos)
  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #564 - May 6th, 2017 at 2:49am
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Hey digimonk,

As Lelouch said, you have likely not grouped with any decent tree builds...with half of the population not even being able to play or build a proper warlock what hope do they have of playing a tree build...

They are very specific builds with one or two small things that make all the difference, plus they are not easy to learn (imo, a lot of small little tricks that make all the difference)

If you have a tree in your group/raid that is not dominating they are doing it wrong...

High skull reaper I cannot comment on them though as I have not sen them in there...


  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #565 - May 6th, 2017 at 3:28pm
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I agree with Digimonk, haven't seen many trees outperform other top meta builds that much, before reaper. Still, they used to be tier 1 builds, but the mental work to keep that going just wasn't worth it.

Now with reaper, DPS on high skulls is all about single target, and long fights. Not the best place for trees. If people ever go back to play at cap, what we're going to see is groups of monkchers + support roles as the basic party. Tree will still be ok thought, just like any other build. It's just not worth the headache, unless you really like the style.
  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #566 - May 7th, 2017 at 2:40pm
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zoriaan wrote on May 6th, 2017 at 2:49am:
Hey digimonk,

As Lelouch said, you have likely not grouped with any decent tree builds...with half of the population not even being able to play or build a proper warlock what hope do they have of playing a tree build...

They are very specific builds with one or two small things that make all the difference, plus they are not easy to learn (imo, a lot of small little tricks that make all the difference)

If you have a tree in your group/raid that is not dominating they are doing it wrong...

High skull reaper I cannot comment on them though as I have not sen them in there...



This could very well be, but there are some well-known and reasonably skilled players on the server who I've seen running trees in the past.  I see less tree builds these days, which may also be part of it, although I would think that at least a couple of them would know how to play one properly.
  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #567 - May 20th, 2017 at 4:26am
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Just add oil to the fire and keep this thread kicking...

Does Eldritch Shield generate spirit every 6 seconds when the temp HP's refresh?
  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #568 - May 20th, 2017 at 5:17am
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tapster wrote on May 20th, 2017 at 4:26am:
Just add oil to the fire and keep this thread kicking...

Does Eldritch Shield generate spirit every 6 seconds when the temp HP's refresh?



As far as i know it didnt count as healing but temp hp, if it worked you could for example use demon shield/angelic grace/gsteel temp hp/life shield  etc gear to have spirit ticks as well and that doesnt work as i know.

/could have changed, honestly nothing would surprise me at this point, due to being busy irl i cant test nor have the will to play ddo with all my friends there mia and having a bunch of ps3 and ps4 games at my disposal that offer way more quality time

  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #569 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 1:14pm
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Quick bump to this thread so I can fucking find it on the first page. There is some cool shit that can be done with trees now.

I'll report back once I've finalized and play tested a few ideas I have.
  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #570 - Jan 5th, 2018 at 3:31pm
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Looking forward to it. Definitely a lot of updated possibilities.
  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #571 - Jan 5th, 2018 at 3:52pm
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Lol trees. Go monk silly.
  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #572 - Jan 5th, 2018 at 4:29pm
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You and your buddy Symbiont have been trying so hard to get monks nerfed and now you're saying go monk?  Roll Eyes Huh
  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #573 - Jan 6th, 2018 at 1:10pm
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They're OP, so play them
  
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Re: The Trees Shall Rise Again
Reply #574 - Jan 7th, 2018 at 4:12pm
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Sergod wrote on Jan 5th, 2018 at 3:52pm:
Lol trees. Go monk silly.


How about a monk based tree?
  
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