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U24 Max DPS Barbarian (Read 184690 times)

Viktor Vaughn Puppy Farmer Offline Eberron burns Posts: 1561 Joined: Mar 19^th, 2014	Re: U24 Max DPS Barbarian Reply #100 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 4:19pm	Print Post
	FM wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 4:01pm: You do not get double strikes on cleaves. I already knew this but tested it just now to see if anything had changed. Bullshit. I tested it too, and I see cleave doublestriking. Ill give you some screenshots later.
	« Last Edit: Jan 18^th, 2015 at 4:20pm by Viktor Vaughn »

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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: U24 Max DPS Barbarian Reply #101 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 4:20pm	Print Post
	FM wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 4:01pm: You do not get double strikes on cleaves. I already knew this but tested it just now to see if anything had changed. centered kensei thf would proc doublestrike on great cleave last i checked on U21.

	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Viktor Vaughn Puppy Farmer Offline Eberron burns Posts: 1561 Joined: Mar 19^th, 2014	Re: U24 Max DPS Barbarian Reply #102 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 4:27pm	Print Post
	Next time test proper, not like turbine is testing.


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Wipe VoD Slasher Offline Posts: 1917 Joined: Mar 26^th, 2012 Gender:	Re: U24 Max DPS Barbarian Reply #103 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 4:40pm	Print Post
	Are you sure ? Isn't that just glancing blow with second 500 kotc proc on helpless ? Try few normal swings and you might see 3 rd line of damage which you never get with Cleaves. Or 4 lines of damage on twf ( main hand + DS, off hand + DS ) which you will never get with Cleaves ( that's why cleaves on twf are so retarded ). I like pretty pictures tho.
	« Last Edit: Jan 18^th, 2015 at 4:41pm by Wipe »

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Viktor Vaughn Puppy Farmer Offline Eberron burns Posts: 1561 Joined: Mar 19^th, 2014	Re: U24 Max DPS Barbarian Reply #104 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 4:45pm	Print Post
	Wipe wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 4:40pm: Are you sure ? Isn't that just glancing blow with second 500 kotc proc on helpless ? Try few normal swings and you might see 3 rd line of damage which you never get with Cleaves. Or 4 lines of damage on twf ( main hand + DS, off hand + DS ) which you will never get with Cleaves ( that's why cleaves on twf are so retarded ). I like pretty pictures tho. It is strike down cleave from divine crusader. What 500 kotc proc? YOu mean the one that procs on vorpal on undead?� Dummy is not undead, even if dummy was bugged and considered undead, I rolled a 7. Another strike down cleave, this time no 925 x2.
	« Last Edit: Jan 18^th, 2015 at 4:51pm by Viktor Vaughn »

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FM Dragon Raider Offline Posts: 263 Joined: Mar 25^th, 2014	Re: U24 Max DPS Barbarian Reply #105 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 4:53pm	Print Post
	The second line of numbers is the glancing blow, is it not?


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Wipe VoD Slasher Offline Posts: 1917 Joined: Mar 26^th, 2012 Gender:	Re: U24 Max DPS Barbarian Reply #106 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 5:03pm	Print Post
	Ok Ivan, Strike Down can Double Strike apparently, didn't know that. That's not the first thing that comes to mind when people say cleaves, is it ? Cleave, Great Cleave, Avenging Cleave, Exalted Cleave, Supreme Cleave, Eldritch Strike - you know "cleaves" , can those Double Strike ? Yes / No ? Please underline the correct answer in previous sentence. Is this simple enough ?


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Viktor Vaughn Puppy Farmer Offline Eberron burns Posts: 1561 Joined: Mar 19^th, 2014	Re: U24 Max DPS Barbarian Reply #107 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 5:08pm	Print Post
	FM wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 4:53pm: The second line of numbers is the glancing blow, is it not? So glancing blow effect from cleave doing same dmg as normal blow? Where is it on 2nd pic then? Wipe wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 5:03pm: Ok Ivan, Strike Down can Double Strike apparently, didn't know that. That's not the first thing that comes to mind when people say cleaves, is it ? Cleave, Great Cleave, Avenging Cleave, Exalted Cleave, Supreme Cleave, Eldritch Strike - you know "cleaves" , can those Double Strike ? Yes / No ? Please underline the correct answer in previous sentence. Is this simple enough ? Test them, maybe then you will know some things. I did one and its enough for me. IT is cleave, that is the point, I did the easiest one which is obvious to see its doublestrike, you can do rest.
	« Last Edit: Jan 18^th, 2015 at 5:17pm by Viktor Vaughn »

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FM Dragon Raider Offline Posts: 263 Joined: Mar 25^th, 2014	Re: U24 Max DPS Barbarian Reply #108 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 7:54pm	Print Post
	Viktor Vaughn wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 5:08pm: So glancing blow effect from cleave doing same dmg as normal blow? Where is it on 2nd pic then? Yeah, glancing blows have a chance to proc the same weapon effect as the main attack. Are you using a weapon that gets glancing blows in your testing? It is unclear from the picture. Also, seeing the combat log would be more useful than seeing guild chat. Viktor Vaughn wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 5:08pm: I did the easiest one which is obvious to see its doublestrike, you can do rest. I'm not clear on how this cleave would be easier to see doublestriking. Either you see similar weapon damage numbers twice or you don't.
	« Last Edit: Jan 18^th, 2015 at 8:03pm by FM »

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FM Dragon Raider Offline Posts: 263 Joined: Mar 25^th, 2014	Re: U24 Max DPS Barbarian Reply #109 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 8:23pm	Print Post
	Nevermind the previous questions, I found my own answers. I tested Strike Down and it is exactly what it appears to be. The fire damage portion of it can proc on a glancing blow - no big surprise there. The cleave attack itself does not double strike, nor does Cleave nor Great Cleave (although apparently Great Cleave might on a specific centered build). So I guess we know why you insisted on testing cleave doublestriking on a random 12 second cooldown cleave. It was the only cleave attack that could even remotely appear to doublestrike (even though it doesn't). After testing the doublestrike on regular and great cleave and seeing that it didn't work, I'm guessing you had to start reaching, especially after screenshots were promised. Viktor Vaughn wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 4:27pm: Next time test proper, not like turbine is testing.
	« Last Edit: Jan 18^th, 2015 at 8:25pm by FM »

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5 Foot Step Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Hate Idiots! Posts: 11119 Location: USA Joined: Mar 8^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: U24 Max DPS Barbarian Reply #110 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 10:24pm	Print Post
	SayWhatAgain wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 4:53am: Check out this video's end fight at http://youtu.be/UTwsPPtf2ow The guy is thf till trash is dead then he twitchs the boss (whom's hp is dropping really fast). Easy enough to test, you can go in there and compare dps on the boss like you did vs the tree build in vol. Video seems to be before the nerf though if you activate your eye just for the end fight the difference shouldn't be that great in your favor (because of the +10 melle power). I'd be interested to see what you come up with. 5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 6:40am: Looks like 27 secs on the endboss? I'll see what I get next time I log. I did a quick run this morning. (no invis, just killing everything that followed me.) Six minutes for completion, 63 kills, 23 seconds to kill the endboss. Looks like I got about 15% more DPS than this guy. I could get better times though, the barb I ran wasn't fully geared.

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Viktor Vaughn Puppy Farmer Offline Eberron burns Posts: 1561 Joined: Mar 19^th, 2014	Re: U24 Max DPS Barbarian Reply #111 - Jan 19^th, 2015 at 4:28am	Print Post
	FM wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 7:54pm: Yeah, glancing blows have a chance to proc the same weapon effect as the main attack. Are you using a weapon that gets glancing blows in your testing? It is unclear from the picture. Also, seeing the combat log would be more useful than seeing guild chat. I'm not clear on how this cleave would be easier to see doublestriking. Either you see similar weapon damage numbers twice or you don't. Im discussing this with someone who cant recognize esos on my bar?� 500 light dmg is not weapon effect, it is cleave effect, so your point doesnt stand.
	« Last Edit: Jan 19^th, 2015 at 4:29am by Viktor Vaughn »

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Viktor Vaughn Puppy Farmer Offline Eberron burns Posts: 1561 Joined: Mar 19^th, 2014	Re: U24 Max DPS Barbarian Reply #112 - Jan 19^th, 2015 at 4:39am	Print Post
	SayWhatAgain wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 4:53am: Check out this video's end fight at http://youtu.be/UTwsPPtf2ow The guy is thf till trash is dead then he twitchs the boss (whom's hp is dropping really fast). Easy enough to test, you can go in there and compare dps on the boss like you did vs the tree build in vol. Video seems to be before the nerf though if you activate your eye just for the end fight the difference shouldn't be that great in your favor (because of the +10 melle power). I'd be interested to see what you come up with. HE could have done the quest at least 20 sec faster if he didnt spawn those spiders.


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Limpgimp Dragon Raider Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 278 Joined: Jul 18^th, 2012	Re: U24 Max DPS Barbarian Reply #113 - Jan 19^th, 2015 at 4:46am	Print Post
	Picks are 15-18/x4 19-20/x6 Khopeshes are 11-18/x3 19-20/x5 (both for DC, critical rage and death frenzy) Assuming a Base average damage of 150 (value out of the blue) and seeker 23 In fact base damage will be higher for khopesh, due to higher base, but wanted to keep things as simple as possible Pick: (15013 + (1734)4 +(1736)2)/20=(1950+2768+2076)/20=339.7 Khopesh: (15010 + (1733)8+(1735)2)/20=(1500+4152+1730)/20=369.1 ~8% difference There is also the extra feat issue, but e toughness is probably ~5% or less of total hp, so wouldn't be a big deal to drop. Did I miss something?


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5 Foot Step Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Hate Idiots! Posts: 11119 Location: USA Joined: Mar 8^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: U24 Max DPS Barbarian Reply #114 - Jan 19^th, 2015 at 4:54am	Print Post
	Limpgimp wrote on Jan 19^th, 2015 at 4:46am: Picks are 15-18/x4 19-20/x6 Khopeshes are 11-18/x3 19-20/x5 (both for DC, critical rage and death frenzy) Assuming a Base average damage of 150 (value out of the blue) and seeker 23 In fact base damage will be higher for khopesh, due to higher base, but wanted to keep things as simple as possible Pick: (15013 + (1734)4 +(1736)2)/20=(1950+2768+2076)/20=339.7 Khopesh: (15010 + (1733)8+(1735)2)/20=(1500+4152+1730)/20=369.1 ~8% difference There is also the extra feat issue, but e toughness is probably ~5% or less of total hp, so wouldn't be a big deal to drop. Did I miss something? Yes, you missed that khopeshes only go to 13-20. So khopesh criticals give 20 extra iterations of damage while picks give 22.
	« Last Edit: Jan 19^th, 2015 at 4:57am by 5 Foot Step »
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SayWhatAgain Dragon Raider Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 236 Joined: Jul 30^th, 2014	Re: U24 Max DPS Barbarian Reply #115 - Jan 19^th, 2015 at 5:15am	Print Post
	Wipe wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 2:53pm: Oh. Are you sure ? Cleaves can double strike. Yes I am sure. I could see 3 lines of damage from a single attack be it g.cleave, cleave or supreme cleave. The first line is the initial strike, the 2ed is the glancing blow and the third is the double strike. I tested this very recently, post u24 patch 1. Victor's conclusion is correct even if his test doesn't properly show it.


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SayWhatAgain Dragon Raider Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 236 Joined: Jul 30^th, 2014	Re: U24 Max DPS Barbarian Reply #116 - Jan 19^th, 2015 at 5:24am	Print Post
	5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 10:24pm: I did a quick run this morning. (no invis, just killing everything that followed me.) Six minutes for completion, 63 kills, 23 seconds to kill the endboss. Looks like I got about 15% more DPS than this guy. I could get better times though, the barb I ran wasn't fully geared. Would that be 23 seconds to kill boss plus trash? It would be even better if you could clear the trash first and bring the boss down to his health point at which the thf barb started cleaving. You can see the boss hp go down faster once he stops spamming cleaves/ms/lw and start twitching. What was the state of your eye? Did you activate for the beginning of the fight? What about haste/damage boost? Ideally this could be tested on a post u24.1 twitching barb taking down a red name from full to dead but even so this test gives some indication.


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5 Foot Step Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Hate Idiots! Posts: 11119 Location: USA Joined: Mar 8^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: U24 Max DPS Barbarian Reply #117 - Jan 19^th, 2015 at 5:35am	Print Post
	SayWhatAgain wrote on Jan 19^th, 2015 at 5:24am: Would that be 23 seconds to kill boss plus trash? It would be even better if you could clear the trash first and bring the boss down to his health point at which the thf barb started cleaving. You can see the boss hp go down faster once he stops spamming cleaves/ms/lw and start twitching. What was the state of your eye? Did you activate for the beginning of the fight? What about haste/damage boost? Ideally this could be tested on a post u24.1 twitching barb taking down a red name from full to dead but even so this test gives some indication. It was 23 secs to kill the boss...+1 second to finish off the trash after if you want to count them together. I turned on Eye at the start...also had consecration, Zeal and a 30% damage AB on for most of it.

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Limpgimp Dragon Raider Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 278 Joined: Jul 18^th, 2012	Re: U24 Max DPS Barbarian Reply #118 - Jan 19^th, 2015 at 5:35am	Print Post
	5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 19^th, 2015 at 4:54am: Yes, you missed that khopeshes only go to 13-20. So khopesh criticals give 20 extra iterations of damage while picks give 22. ah, brain fart, took base as 18-20 indeed.


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5 Foot Step Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Hate Idiots! Posts: 11119 Location: USA Joined: Mar 8^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: U24 Max DPS Barbarian Reply #119 - Jan 19^th, 2015 at 5:52am	Print Post
	Limpgimp wrote on Jan 19^th, 2015 at 5:35am: ah, brain fart, took base as 18-20 indeed. Yeah, if there were 1-handed thunderforged swords of shadow I would totally use those, LOL.

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Limpgimp Dragon Raider Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 278 Joined: Jul 18^th, 2012	Re: U24 Max DPS Barbarian Reply #120 - Jan 19^th, 2015 at 5:55am	Print Post
	5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 19^th, 2015 at 5:52am: Yeah, if there were 1-handed thunderforged swords of shadow I would totally use those, LOL. Thunderforged Drow Khopesh of the Weapon Master


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Wipe VoD Slasher Offline Posts: 1917 Joined: Mar 26^th, 2012 Gender:	Re: U24 Max DPS Barbarian Reply #121 - Jan 19^th, 2015 at 7:08am	Print Post
	SayWhatAgain wrote on Jan 19^th, 2015 at 5:15am: Cleaves can double strike. Yes I am sure. It was rhetorical question. But I guess we all have our own truth and if it works for you, great. I can Cleave or Greater Cleave all day and never get doublestrike ( like right now I smashed the dummy like 200 times with 27 ish double strike, thought for� a second you guys are fucking with me lol ), and it's been like that for years ( at least for twf ). Cleave on twf - main hand damage only. "Normal" attack on twf - main hand + possible DS, off hand + Possible DS Cleave on thf - main hand + glancing blow Normal attack main hand + glancing blow + often DS. Oh well, no point arguing I guess.


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SayWhatAgain Dragon Raider Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 236 Joined: Jul 30^th, 2014	Re: U24 Max DPS Barbarian Reply #122 - Jan 19^th, 2015 at 7:10am	Print Post
	5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 19^th, 2015 at 5:35am: It was 23 secs to kill the boss...+1 second to finish off the trash after if you want to count them together. I turned on Eye at the start...also had consecration, Zeal and a 30% damage AB on for most of it. So basically full retard on the boss. Well considering 2-3 sec difference in times while THF not twitching full time. TWF eye at average of 21 with +10 mp (superior to 25 base damage without mp) and peak of zeal opposed to average which is much lower I'd say THF is ahead but the test is not a very percise one.


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SayWhatAgain Dragon Raider Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 236 Joined: Jul 30^th, 2014	Re: U24 Max DPS Barbarian Reply #123 - Jan 19^th, 2015 at 7:21am	Print Post
	Wipe wrote on Jan 19^th, 2015 at 7:08am: It was rhetorical question. But I guess we all have our own truth and if it works for you, great. I can Cleave or Greater Cleave all day and never get doublestrike ( like right now I smashed the dummy like 200 times with 27 ish double strike, thought for� a second you guys are fucking with me lol ), and it's been like that for years ( at least for twf ). Cleave on twf - main hand damage only. "Normal" attack on twf - main hand + possible DS, off hand + Possible DS Cleave on thf - main hand + glancing blow Normal attack main hand + glancing blow + often DS. Oh well, no point arguing I guess. My tests were done with a two hander. No point in arguing especially since we might both be right. Twf acting differently perhaps? I'll SS it. Cleave starting cd 3 hits on dummie (normal, glancing and double) Using 2 hander. Showing those 3 on a SS should prove the point.


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Bacardi Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 362 Joined: Oct 12^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: U24 Max DPS Barbarian Reply #124 - Jan 19^th, 2015 at 9:56am	Print Post
	LRed 5 Foots build into SWF just to check the DPS loss from TWF animations on cleaves and tactical skills/feats. Supreme Cleave,Strike down,Slaughter,Exhausting Blow almost instant casts Ran a couple DPS tests on Cabals first rednamed using the Tes method and SWF was 500DPS more.(Same TF Tier3 Heavy Pick and a useless orb with Devotion). Test drove it in EE Vol (Red Aler 2 rooms etc) and it was prolly the easiest run i ever did. My plan was to use 2 hearts one to test and one to LR back but i think i`ll stay like this for a while testing more shit. The feats i took were SWF,ISWF,GSWF,PSWF,PTWF,OC,EpicDR,EpicToughness,Toughness,Power Attack,Cleave(for Blitzing),Imp Crit Piercing.

	Epoch wrote on May 22^nd, 2012 at 4:46am: I can tell by your typing that you are an uneducated fuckwit.� This explains why you think books are bad.� I bet you think school is hard and you shouldn't have to repeat 7th grade again this year.
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