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5 Foot Step
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Ninja Rogue Build
Jan 22nd, 2015 at 5:36am
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Not posting the layout yet, but just hit 20 and the initial testing is very promising.
« Last Edit: Mar 15th, 2016 at 5:56pm by 5 Foot Step »  

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Re: Max DPS Unarmed Rogue Build
Reply #1 - Jan 22nd, 2015 at 7:50am
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It isnt max dps unless it's a wolf.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Max DPS Unarmed Rogue Build
Reply #2 - Jan 22nd, 2015 at 8:19am
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I'll be interested to see your split. I've been going back and forth with Rog builds for a while and just can't come up with one that I think I'll like. My last thought was 17Rog/3Drd for Fatal Harrier. I haven't considered unarmed lately because with all the wraps bugs I just don't see it competing with 2 Tforged/Mortal Fear possibilities. Plus pajamas...
  
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Re: Max DPS Unarmed Rogue Build
Reply #3 - Jan 22nd, 2015 at 8:47am
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I absolutely love my wolf build.. and wearing full plate just makes it the cuddle after a sweaty angry sex session  Cheesy
  
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5 Foot Step
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Re: Max DPS Unarmed Rogue Build
Reply #4 - Jan 22nd, 2015 at 10:10am
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Rubbinns wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 7:50am:
It isnt max dps unless it's a wolf. 


We shall see. I have yet to test at cap, but it's doing a lot more single target damage at 20 than any wolf.
  

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Re: Max DPS Unarmed Rogue Build
Reply #5 - Jan 22nd, 2015 at 12:40pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 10:10am:
We shall see. I have yet to test at cap, but it's doing a lot more single target damage at 20 than any wolf.

Any combination possible on rogue twf build would be better off splashing 2 druid and 2 ranger for wolf speed and swf speed. It outperforms a swashbuckler or staff user. If barb rage tier 5 ravager with thief acrobat you could make a case for that as well. Possibly ravager tier 5 with swashbuckler too. But any of those would absolutely be lower than a wolf on single target dps.
« Last Edit: Jan 22nd, 2015 at 12:44pm by Rubbinns »  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Max DPS Unarmed Rogue Build
Reply #6 - Jan 22nd, 2015 at 1:14pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 12:40pm:
Any combination possible on rogue twf build would be better off splashing 2 druid and 2 ranger for wolf speed and swf speed. It outperforms a swashbuckler or staff user. If barb rage tier 5 ravager with thief acrobat you could make a case for that as well. Possibly ravager tier 5 with swashbuckler too. But any of those would absolutely be lower than a wolf on single target dps.


Don't discourage him now....
  
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Re: Max DPS Unarmed Rogue Build
Reply #7 - Jan 22nd, 2015 at 1:32pm
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13 rogue (improved defensive roll, Opportunist and knockdown immunity) 4 paladin (greater stance,saves ) 3 wizard(arcane Barrier, doublestrike and prr) heavy armored stick user maybe ? You get dps and defense.
« Last Edit: Jan 22nd, 2015 at 1:34pm by »  
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Re: Max DPS Unarmed Rogue Build
Reply #8 - Jan 22nd, 2015 at 7:57pm
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He's talking about an unarmed Rog, so he's gotta be trying to maximize SA damage, get as much Dstrike, Attack Speed and Offhand as possible, and try to make the enemies vulnerable to sneak attacks as best he can. Since it's unarmed it will have at least a 1monk splash unless there's some other way to get Flurry of Blows without Monk. 3Drd gives you Fatal Harrier for a nice speed bump.

The problem I have with pj melees in EE is keeping them alive though. I'm either not good enough at building them or just don't have the right gear/past lives to survive long enough. Some sort of heal over time would help I suppose,
  
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Teh_Troll
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Re: Max DPS Unarmed Rogue Build
Reply #9 - Jan 22nd, 2015 at 8:53pm
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Packfan wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 7:57pm:
He's talking about an unarmed Rog, so he's gotta be trying to maximize SA damage, get as much Dstrike, Attack Speed and Offhand as possible, and try to make the enemies vulnerable to sneak attacks as best he can. Since it's unarmed it will have at least a 1monk splash unless there's some other way to get Flurry of Blows without Monk. 3Drd gives you Fatal Harrier for a nice speed bump.

The problem I have with pj melees in EE is keeping them alive though. I'm either not good enough at building them or just don't have the right gear/past lives to survive long enough. Some sort of heal over time would help I suppose,

Monks have been screwed all over by now. Not worth taking especially with unarmed being broken beyond repair.
  
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Re: Max DPS Unarmed Rogue Build
Reply #10 - Jan 22nd, 2015 at 9:02pm
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I agree, I'm just guessing at what he's going for as an unarmed Rogue build.

I personally haven't played a SWF build other than a wolf so I don't know how SWF and TWF compare, especially given that Turbine want to keep pulling SWF back.
  
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Re: Max DPS Unarmed Rogue Build
Reply #11 - Jan 22nd, 2015 at 10:46pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 12:40pm:
Any combination possible on rogue twf build would be better off splashing 2 druid and 2 ranger for wolf speed and swf speed. It outperforms a swashbuckler or staff user. If barb rage tier 5 ravager with thief acrobat you could make a case for that as well. Possibly ravager tier 5 with swashbuckler too. But any of those would absolutely be lower than a wolf on single target dps.


I'm just telling you what I saw. That Wolf has a leg up on alacrity (even though it doesn't have enough feats Tongue), but wolf has shitty base damage while rogue gets a huge pile of d6 amplified by melee power and helpless bonuses.

In any case, my goal is not to beat wolf (though it is not clear that I won't). My goal is to simultaneously create the highest possible DPS (non-wolf) rogue build and the highest possible unarmed build.

Yes it will be comparatively squishy...if you are dying I advise you to farm epic past lives. Every character can pick up 33 hp, 27 PRR, 12 AC, and 9% absorption that stack with everything. This build will not be intended for first lifers.
« Last Edit: Jan 22nd, 2015 at 10:52pm by 5 Foot Step »  

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Re: Max DPS Unarmed Rogue Build
Reply #12 - Jan 23rd, 2015 at 4:52am
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OK, enough teasing, this is what I'm working with.

5FS's Sneaky Fist


Race: Human/PDK
Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Class: 16 Rogue/2 Monk/2 Fighter


Stats: (36 pt build, +5 supreme tome recommended)

Strength............15 (+ level ups)
Dexterity...........16 (+5 tome or better required)
Constitution.......14
Intelligence.........14
Wisdom..............14
Charisma............8


Feat Progression

Level 1     : Two Weapon Fighting, Stunning Blow
Level 2(M): Stunning Fist 
Level 3     : Completionist
Level 5(M): Precision
Level 6     : Adept of Forms
Level 9     : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Level 11(F):Improved Critical - Blunt
Level 12   : Master of Forms
Level 13   : Opportunist
Level 15(F): Past Life - Monk, Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Level 17   : Improved Evasion
Level 18   : Grand Master of Forms
Level 20   : Slippery Mind
Level 21   : Improved Sneak Attack
Level 24   : Overwhelming Critical
Level 26   : Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
Level 27   : Watchful Eye
Level 28   : First Blood?



Enhancements

Harper: 35 AP
Cores: 4/6 (Int)
Harper Enchantment (2 pts)
Traveler's Toughness 2/3
Versatile Adept I 3/3
Know The Angles 3/3
Versatile Adept II 3/3
Highly Skilled 3/3
Vigor of Life (2 pts)
Versatile Adept III 3/3
Int+1
Int+1
Versatile Adept IV 3/3
Harper Deception (2 pts)


Assassin: 26 AP
Cores 1/6
Sneak Attack Training I (2 pts)
Shiv (2/3)
Sneak Attack Training II (2pts)
Damage Boost 3/3 (2 pts)
Sneak Attack Training III (2 pts)
Critical Accuracy 3/3
Int+1
Critical damage 3/3
Killer 3/3


Kensei: 11 AP
Cores 1/6 (Marital Arts)
Extra Action Boost 2/3 (2 pts)
Contemplation 3/3 (2 pts)


Shintao: 7 AP
Cores 1/6
Deft Strikes 3/3 (2 pts)


Human: 1 AP
Damage Boost

Epic Destiny: Legendary Dreadnought

AB: Attack 1/3
Extra AB 3/3
Legendary Tactics 3/3
Str+1

Str+1

AB: Haste 3/3
Critical Damage 2/3
Str+1

(No tier 4

Devastating Critical
Advancing Blows

Master's Blitz (PRR)



Twists: 4/3/1/1

Sense Weakness
Balanced Attacks
Rejuvenation Cocoon
Brace for Impact


Skills: Max ranks in

Bluff
Concentration
Diplomacy
Disable Device
Move Silently
Open Lock
Search
Spot
UMD

Half ranks-
Heal
« Last Edit: Jan 28th, 2015 at 7:03am by 5 Foot Step »  

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5 Foot Step
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Re: Max DPS Unarmed Rogue Build
Reply #13 - Jan 23rd, 2015 at 4:52am
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Gear:

Head: Mythic Emerald Gaze
Neck: Shroud of Ardent
Trinket: Epic Litany/Manuak of Stealthy Pilfering
Back: Adamantine Wolf
Waist: E. Thoughtful Remembrance
Ring1: EE Ring of Shadows
Hands: HE Backstabber
Feet: E. Innocent
Ring2: ToD Ring (+6 Cha, Holy Burst)
Wrists: E. Ethereal
Torso: Spiderspun Caparison (+3 dex)
Goggles: E. Glimpse
Quiver: E. Alacrity (Need to test if this is actually feasible with the concentration penalty...thinking it will be ok with passive regen running.)
Wraps: TF Dragon's Edge/Mortal Fear (Deconstructor/Devotion)

16 augment slots:
Globe
Soul Gem
Power 250
+40 HP
Heavy Fort
Blindness
+8 Int
Insightful +2 (Int, Wis, Con, Cha)
+15 Heal
Protection +8
Natural +8
Poison +10
Disease +10
« Last Edit: Jan 23rd, 2015 at 5:20am by 5 Foot Step »  

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Re: Max DPS Unarmed Rogue Build
Reply #14 - Jan 23rd, 2015 at 8:52am
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5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 10:46pm:
I'm just telling you what I saw. That Wolf has a leg up on alacrity (even though it doesn't have enough feats Tongue), but wolf has shitty base damage while rogue gets a huge pile of d6 amplified by melee power


if you honestly think your 2 fighter splash is better than 2 wolf you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.

A pastlifenmo build with 9 sorc levels would compete with the shit build you mention above. You are no where near close to having an optimised unarmed dps build, even with the limitation of rogue levels.
« Last Edit: Jan 23rd, 2015 at 8:52am by Munkenmo »  

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Re: Max DPS Unarmed Rogue Build
Reply #15 - Jan 23rd, 2015 at 9:46am
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Munkenmo wrote on Jan 23rd, 2015 at 8:52am:
if you honestly think your 2 fighter splash is better than 2 wolf you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.

A pastlifenmo build with 9 sorc levels would compete with the shit build you mention above. You are no where near close to having an optimised unarmed dps build, even with the limitation of rogue levels.

Your build sucks, my build has a bigger ePEEN.  Fuck off.

  

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Re: Max DPS Unarmed Rogue Build
Reply #16 - Jan 23rd, 2015 at 1:00pm
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Red Sox H8 Yankees wrote on Jan 23rd, 2015 at 9:46am:
Your build sucks, my build has a bigger ePEEN.  Fuck off.



If you know mechanic behind wolf combat, then what munk said makes total sense.

IF you dont know mechanic then yea fighter split becomes good for whatever weird reason
  
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Re: Max DPS Unarmed Rogue Build
Reply #17 - Jan 23rd, 2015 at 2:23pm
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I too question 2 FTR over 2 Druid (Wolf). Sure the normal wolf isn't as good as the winter wolf but it still gets the +30% attack speed which is tough to beat even by two FTR feats and the listed Kensei enhancements.
  

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Re: Max DPS Unarmed Rogue Build
Reply #18 - Jan 23rd, 2015 at 4:51pm
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sorry man, but unarmed sucks balls.
  
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Re: Max DPS Unarmed Rogue Build
Reply #19 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 2:37am
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Rubbinns wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 7:50am:
It isnt max dps unless it's a wolf. 


As I said before, I'm doing a non exploit build. I have a wolf, but that's not the only build I'm going to play. I have 10 characters.

Arkat wrote on Jan 23rd, 2015 at 2:23pm:
I too question 2 FTR over 2 Druid (Wolf). Sure the normal wolf isn't as good as the winter wolf but it still gets the +30% attack speed which is tough to beat even by two FTR feats and the listed Kensei enhancements.


Two levels of fighter gives feats..., but more importantly it lets me equip the epic quiver and still have a ki pool through contemplation. So fighter indirectly adds 8% doublestrike and +4 sneak attack damage.

(I very well might try out 16 rogue/2 druid/2 ranger if I get bored with this version. Wolf speed vs unarmed speed equals out. I'd gain 30% SWF alacrity but lose 30% offhand attacks. Double strike would be a net loss because there would only be room for 1 natural fighting feat vs 10% in wind stance.)

Munkenmo wrote on Jan 23rd, 2015 at 8:52am:
if you honestly think your 2 fighter splash is better than 2 wolf you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.

A pastlifenmo build with 9 sorc levels would compete with the shit build you mention above. You are no where near close to having an optimised unarmed dps build, even with the limitation of rogue levels.


OK, mister I-don't-play-the-game-anymore, surely you know the formula for how sneak attack multiplies with 100+ melee power and +130% helpless damage.

Yes the wolf hits more often, but how much are you hitting for base + sneak attack? Let's take a poll, because I'm hitting for insane amounts of damage at level 21.

Hit: (Combat): You sneak attack Cloven-Jaw Scout for 620 points of bludgeon damage.
Crit: (Combat): You sneak attack Cloven-Jaw Warlord for 1,330 points of bludgeon damage.

That was on my gimpy test character, not one of my completionists.
« Last Edit: Jan 24th, 2015 at 3:13am by 5 Foot Step »  

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Re: Max DPS Unarmed Rogue Build
Reply #20 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 6:16am
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5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 2:37am:
Hit: (Combat): You sneak attack Cloven-Jaw Scout for 620 points of bludgeon damage.
Crit: (Combat): You sneak attack Cloven-Jaw Warlord for 1,330 points of bludgeon damage.


i just tr'ed out of a rog stick build that was doing consistently around 5k hit 10k on vorpal, while impressive at first glance (and certainly a lot more than your numbers) it was still outclassed by the wolf build in every aspect measurable. sorry to burst your bubble man but there is no stopping the rape train.. oopsy the wolf train
  



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Re: Max DPS Unarmed Rogue Build
Reply #21 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 10:22am
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5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 2:37am:
(I very well might try out 16 rogue/2 druid/2 ranger

Think I like 11 rge 6 rng 3 drd. Loss of two rogue feats and improved sneak attack. Gains Imp 2wf feat should also be able to replace Imp sneak and the free feat from ranger 6 with Natural Fighting x2.

Dance of Death and Thousand Cuts for 35 AP in Tempest.
Killer, 4d6 sneak attack from Assassin 25 AP.
4 base damage, 1d6 sneak attack, positive power, and Fatal Harrier in Nature's Warrior for 13 AP.
7 AP in Harper for KTA.







« Last Edit: Jan 24th, 2015 at 10:39am by Rubbinns »  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Max DPS Unarmed Rogue Build
Reply #22 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 10:39am
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Rubbinns wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 10:22am:
Think I like 11 rge 6 rng 3 drd. Loss of one rogue feat and improved sneak attack. Gains Imp 2wf feat should also be able to replace Imp sneak and the free feat from ranger 6 with Natural Fighting x2.

Dance of Death and Thousand Cuts for 35 AP in Tempest.
Killer, 4d6 sneak attack from Assassin 25 AP.
4 base damage, 1d6 sneak attack, positive power, and Fatal Harrier in Nature's Warrior for 13 AP.
7 AP in Harper for KTA.


Natural fighting pre-req is 9 druid.

Id start from a base of 9druid, 6ranger 5rogue and work from there to find optimal unarmed dps.
« Last Edit: Jan 24th, 2015 at 10:48am by Munkenmo »  

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Re: Max DPS Unarmed Rogue Build
Reply #23 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 11:04am
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Munkenmo wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 10:39am:
Natural fighting pre-req is 9 druid.

Ughh.

Ranger feats: 2wf, I2wf.
7 heroic feats: Swf, Iswf, Gswf, G2wf, IC;B, Precision, and either Toughness or Completionist
3 epic feats: Epic DR, OC and Epic Toughness or Epic Reflexes
2 destiny feats P2WF and First Blood.

I dont know if I would play that over a Swashbuckler rogue. Something like 12 rogue 5 barb 3 bard using light pick in DC. Should be a +4 threat range increase on light pick.

  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Max DPS Unarmed Rogue Build
Reply #24 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 11:06am
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Munkenmo wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 10:39am:
optimal unarmed dps.

But what would be highest rogue icon dps?
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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