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DropBear
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Lag in Wilderness areas
Jan 24th, 2015 at 2:29am
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Now this is one I've not encountered before.
Decided to mow through a wilderness area on my Pally today.
Got about half way thru and then mid-jump, just froze.

Waited a few mins and nothing.
Went away and came back 10 mins later and no progress.... Except the archer plinking away at me was starting to have an effect getting in 1-2 points occasionally.

After 20 mins I quit the game.

Now lag is not anything unusual these days, but I wanted to test some of the arguments.
The facts:
Firstly, solo in a wilderness.
Secondly, another client on another computer was communicating with the server just fine.
Third, the sever and game client seemed to be operating just fine because I was taking damage and the archer was moving around.

So it wasn't my connection, and pretty darn sure it is not my PC.
It wasn't somebody else causing the lag.
It wasn't the connection across the pond or the data centre.
This was instance lag.
Now Sev has said that some of the instance lag is when an instance corrupts and the server tries to re-establish it and move the game data.  Makes sense.

But I'm not sure what running thru the wilderness could do to cause an error?  I wasn't even in combat at the time, although an archer obviously found me at some point.
I was surprised at how bad this lag was - even raid lag clears up after a 3-10 mins in my experience (you're usually dead though).   Angry
And I can think of no plausible explanation for it.
Maybe someone was crafting somewhere on my server (unlikely I know  Grin ) and I ended up in i2049 with them?  Don't know and didn't check.

Have you guys seen much lag in wilderness areas (other than when you're kiting 20 Elementals around etc)?
« Last Edit: Jan 24th, 2015 at 2:30am by DropBear »  
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Angry
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Re: Lag in Wilderness areas
Reply #1 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 4:24am
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Wheloon. So many times I've had instance lag in Wheloon. Last time I was in there, was doing EE saga on my fighter monk and we suddenly just froze. A beholder found me and started hitting me with neg levels while a caster hit me with hold and what ever, so already unable to move cause of lag, and then raped to death. Think I saw 25 neg levels before I dropped. Wasn't alone in the instance, though, a few others from the party were there and experience the same thing.

Trying to think of another wilderness with regular lag, but don't remember seeing the same problems anywhere else.
  
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Re: Lag in Wilderness areas
Reply #2 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 7:16am
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There is no lag.  Ladders work as intended.  Everyone loves pets.  There's nothing to see here.  Please visit the ddo store.  Buy.  Buy.  Buy.  Buy.
  

Turbine policy - glitches and poor coding resulting in interference of your game play or enjoyment will be ignored.  Glitches or poor coding on the developers side that at all benefit your game play or enjoyment will result in your character being banned and/or items from your inventory deleted.  Please report all bugs via our bug report...when it works.
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Re: Lag in Wilderness areas
Reply #3 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 8:21am
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DropBear wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 2:29am:
Maybe someone was crafting somewhere on my server (unlikely I know   ) and I ended up in i2049 with them?  Don't know and didn't check.


Most likely. Not so private instances are the doom of this game.

DropBear wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 2:29am:
But I'm not sure what running thru the wilderness could do to cause an error?  I wasn't even in combat at the time, although an archer obviously found me at some point.


If you are doing absolutely nothing in a fresh instanced wilderness, the lag was not caused by you.
« Last Edit: Jan 24th, 2015 at 8:27am by Sasha »  
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Re: Lag in Wilderness areas
Reply #4 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 8:31am
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Best way to get rid of your lag is to throw more money at the DEVs  . Featherfall can help . Easy as Bee's Knee's .
  
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Re: Lag in Wilderness areas
Reply #5 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 8:32am
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oh and fuck you
  
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Re: Lag in Wilderness areas
Reply #6 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 8:33am
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Sorry for the wall of wood
  
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Re: Lag in Wilderness areas
Reply #7 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 8:33am
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oh and fuck you
Smiley
  
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Re: Lag in Wilderness areas
Reply #8 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 8:34am
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blaa blaa and fuck you bla Cheesy
  
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Re: Lag in Wilderness areas
Reply #9 - Jan 25th, 2015 at 3:18am
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ICU wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 8:34am:
blaa blaa and fuck you bla Cheesy


Sold your account for twelve bucks and now you have nothing better to do than cuss at folks on the vault.

GET A LIFE!!!
  

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Re: Lag in Wilderness areas
Reply #10 - Jan 26th, 2015 at 5:05am
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You're all fools. There is a very easy way to avoid lag. Buy it while its cheap.

You can thank me later.

  
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Re: Lag in Wilderness areas
Reply #11 - Jan 26th, 2015 at 6:04am
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Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 26th, 2015 at 5:05am:
You're all fools. There is a very easy way to avoid lag. Buy it while its cheap.

You can thank me later.

http://i.imgur.com/ZqqOuB4.jpg


Do you really think it would cost only 25 tp?
Get serious dude
  
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Re: Lag in Wilderness areas
Reply #12 - Jan 26th, 2015 at 6:48am
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Lelouch wrote on Jan 26th, 2015 at 6:04am:
Do you really think it would cost only 25 tp?
Get serious dude


Per instance change, per character.  Some restrictions and limitations apply.
  

Groo The Wanderer wrote on Sep 8th, 2013 at 10:43pm:
they will probably congratulate themselves on how long they "kept it going" never able to see that it could have easily managed to keep itself going for far longer if they had just meddled far less drastically and with some semblance of an actual gameplan.
Darth Anonymous wrote on Feb 1st, 2014 at 1:11pm:
Hearing something has "merit" but we don't have "time" kind of says everything about how Turbine works on things.
eighnuss wrote on May 27th, 2014 at 12:52pm:
everyone but turbine knows that we are sad they are destroying our game
majmalphunktion wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 12:12am:
I don't make the game, I just get tested what they build. Sorry you are not happy.
Skoodge wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 6:54am:
DDO is easy to summarize - the greatest game to suck the most ass.
GooFY wrote on Mar 2nd, 2015 at 5:36pm:
Turbine - So incompetent that we are skeptical when they report their own incompetence.  
Meursault wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 8:10pm:
Other companies will settle for shitting out garbage, Turdbin actually prefers to. Especially if they can get us to buy it, that just cracks them up.
Meursault wrote on Nov 12th, 2015 at 2:50pm:
Breaking something and putting it back together isn't as good as not breaking it to begin with, it's not even close.
palmer01 wrote on Nov 20th, 2015 at 9:05am:
Devs do not care what players want - they already have an agenda and give out token gestures so the paladins can feel worthy.
PersonaNonGrata wrote on Oct 4th, 2016 at 1:24am:
The DDO devs aren't motivated by a positive user experience.

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Re: Lag in Wilderness areas
Reply #13 - Jan 26th, 2015 at 8:12am
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*sigh*

it's an issue between PNAP and Cogentco in Boston.... it has been ongoing for weeks now.

I know you won't believe me... but it's the case anyway.
The only thing Turbine can do is to ask ( politely ) PNAP to transfer their BGP peering to another T1 Carrier... and that's only if it's in their contract with PNAP...
If it's not tied in the PNAP Turbine contract, then PNAP can do what they want... So they will stay on Cogent.

Basically the issue is that one Router has some congestion ( too many traffic going through ) and starts queuing stuff that is not high priority ( gaming is definitely NOT high priority ).
« Last Edit: Jan 26th, 2015 at 8:14am by Flav »  

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Re: Lag in Wilderness areas
Reply #14 - Jan 26th, 2015 at 10:19am
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Flav wrote on Jan 26th, 2015 at 8:12am:
*sigh*

it's an issue between PNAP and Cogentco in Boston.... it has been ongoing for weeks now.

I know you won't believe me... but it's the case anyway.
The only thing Turbine can do is to ask ( politely ) PNAP to transfer their BGP peering to another T1 Carrier... and that's only if it's in their contract with PNAP...
If it's not tied in the PNAP Turbine contract, then PNAP can do what they want... So they will stay on Cogent.

Basically the issue is that one Router has some congestion ( too many traffic going through ) and starts queuing stuff that is not high priority ( gaming is definitely NOT high priority ).


You need more tools in your tool box than the hammer you trot out for this conversation.

Not every problem is a nail.

  

Groo The Wanderer wrote on Sep 8th, 2013 at 10:43pm:
they will probably congratulate themselves on how long they "kept it going" never able to see that it could have easily managed to keep itself going for far longer if they had just meddled far less drastically and with some semblance of an actual gameplan.
Darth Anonymous wrote on Feb 1st, 2014 at 1:11pm:
Hearing something has "merit" but we don't have "time" kind of says everything about how Turbine works on things.
eighnuss wrote on May 27th, 2014 at 12:52pm:
everyone but turbine knows that we are sad they are destroying our game
majmalphunktion wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 12:12am:
I don't make the game, I just get tested what they build. Sorry you are not happy.
Skoodge wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 6:54am:
DDO is easy to summarize - the greatest game to suck the most ass.
GooFY wrote on Mar 2nd, 2015 at 5:36pm:
Turbine - So incompetent that we are skeptical when they report their own incompetence.  
Meursault wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 8:10pm:
Other companies will settle for shitting out garbage, Turdbin actually prefers to. Especially if they can get us to buy it, that just cracks them up.
Meursault wrote on Nov 12th, 2015 at 2:50pm:
Breaking something and putting it back together isn't as good as not breaking it to begin with, it's not even close.
palmer01 wrote on Nov 20th, 2015 at 9:05am:
Devs do not care what players want - they already have an agenda and give out token gestures so the paladins can feel worthy.
PersonaNonGrata wrote on Oct 4th, 2016 at 1:24am:
The DDO devs aren't motivated by a positive user experience.

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Re: Lag in Wilderness areas
Reply #15 - Jan 26th, 2015 at 12:04pm
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Lagged right the fuck out in Cerulean Hills on a alt-account toon last night.

Got upwards of 25% packet loss and 30k ms delay before the connection finally gave up and I wasn't able to reconnect.

Bright Side: I had a breathtaking view from low orbit.

Even DDO.com was unreachable.

If what Flav says is correct, and Turbine is bound on a contract with PNAP, most contracts contain an "out" clause when service is disrupted or not rendered.

"Ongoing for weeks now" would qualify (In my less than professional opinion.) It certainly did when I had to deal with people bitching about their cell phones, because weeks of disruption meant they could dump their contract with no ETF (Early Termination Fee.)
  

I Got Nothin'.
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Re: Lag in Wilderness areas
Reply #16 - Jan 26th, 2015 at 12:32pm
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Flav wrote on Jan 26th, 2015 at 8:12am:
( gaming is definitely NOT high priority ).


That kind of depends on how you consider priorities.

In this case, you have a paying customer(Turbine) doing business(providing a service to it's customers, in this case, a kobald genocide simulator) that is being hampered by a poor connection. That sounds like a pretty high priority.

Bad connection = poor service = less business = one less paying customer for the ISP. At this point it doesn't matter what anyone's "opinion" of the service being provided is, this is just the way commerce works.

If you are paying for a service, and your service provider tells you "The way you are using this service isn't very important." and then gives you bad service, you are very promptly going to tell them to go fuck themselves.
  

I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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Re: Lag in Wilderness areas
Reply #17 - Jan 26th, 2015 at 4:28pm
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Flav wrote on Jan 26th, 2015 at 8:12am:
*sigh*

it's an issue between PNAP and Cogentco in Boston.... it has been ongoing for weeks now.

I know you won't believe me... but it's the case anyway.
The only thing Turbine can do is to ask ( politely ) PNAP to transfer their BGP peering to another T1 Carrier... and that's only if it's in their contract with PNAP...
If it's not tied in the PNAP Turbine contract, then PNAP can do what they want... So they will stay on Cogent.

Basically the issue is that one Router has some congestion ( too many traffic going through ) and starts queuing stuff that is not high priority ( gaming is definitely NOT high priority ).


Queuing would see my latency increase, which does happen from time to time, but not complete lag for 20 mins where the traffic is all one way?

I had no latency increase in DDO's network tool (I realise it has limitations, but the fact it stayed green leads me to suspect the problem is within the server, not beyond the boundaries?


  
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Re: Lag in Wilderness areas
Reply #18 - Jan 26th, 2015 at 7:23pm
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noamineo wrote on Jan 26th, 2015 at 12:32pm:
If you are paying for a service, and your service provider tells you "The way you are using this service isn't very important." and then gives you bad service, you are very promptly going to tell them to go fuck themselves.

Unless you are Turbine.


... Or a Turbine customer.
  

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Re: Lag in Wilderness areas
Reply #19 - Jan 26th, 2015 at 7:32pm
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Revaulting wrote on Jan 26th, 2015 at 7:23pm:
Unless you are Turbine.


... Or a Turbine customer.


Well yes, there is that Tongue

Although for us customers, I think the problem isn't so much that turbine gives BAD service as much as it gives the least amount of bad service.

Think about it: for all our bitching and moaning, do we go play another MMO? Is there even another MMO that's as good?

And don't say "guild wars", that game is a pile of shit Tongue
  

I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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Re: Lag in Wilderness areas
Reply #20 - Jan 26th, 2015 at 7:50pm
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noamineo wrote on Jan 26th, 2015 at 7:32pm:
Is there even another MMO that qualifies for us to use the "sunken cost" fallacy on?

Let's not kid ourselves about DDO's quality.
  

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Re: Lag in Wilderness areas
Reply #21 - Jan 27th, 2015 at 6:40am
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DropBear wrote on Jan 26th, 2015 at 4:28pm:
Queuing would see my latency increase, which does happen from time to time, but not complete lag for 20 mins where the traffic is all one way?

I had no latency increase in DDO's network tool (I realise it has limitations, but the fact it stayed green leads me to suspect the problem is within the server, not beyond the boundaries?




Well the Ghost Instances issue hasn't been fixed yet, so we still have both issues.

And now for the fun thing ( As far as I can tell it's not the case for DDO ) :
Your latency meter in DDO could use Pings ( ICMP messages ) or TCP packets... when the game uses mostly UDP packets for the location updates...
the QoS could be configured to expedite ICMP and TCP and to queue UDP...
You'd be lagging as hell with rubberbanding and more, but the lag-meter would stay green with no drop all the time.
( once again, as far as my understanding of the client server mechanism in DDO tells me, this is ont the case. The DDO lag-meter seems to use the location updates )

  

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Re: Lag in Wilderness areas
Reply #22 - Jan 27th, 2015 at 9:38am
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Flav wrote on Jan 26th, 2015 at 8:12am:
*sigh*

it's an issue between PNAP and Cogentco in Boston.... it has been ongoing for weeks now.

I know you won't believe me... but it's the case anyway.
The only thing Turbine can do is to ask ( politely ) PNAP to transfer their BGP peering to another T1 Carrier... and that's only if it's in their contract with PNAP...
If it's not tied in the PNAP Turbine contract, then PNAP can do what they want... So they will stay on Cogent.

Basically the issue is that one Router has some congestion ( too many traffic going through ) and starts queuing stuff that is not high priority ( gaming is definitely NOT high priority ).


Seen this before when I cared more. Shown in traceroute, there was definitely a hop where this was occurring and prob still is.  But we'd still rather blame Turd bin.
  
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Re: Lag in Wilderness areas
Reply #23 - Jan 27th, 2015 at 7:53pm
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i am getting pretty strange lag mostly in wilderness recently - i m not able to run continuosly. just running for a while, then suddenly stop, being able to continue running moment after. its pretty annoying, wespecially if u count on your move speed - stoppin just before range of your stunning blow is not funny. stopping in middle of jump, loosing momentum a beginning just featherfall down neither.

someone on home of shitheads mentioned that disabling sounds in options solves this problem for him. well i tried it too - it works for couple minutes, then the lag is returning.

and nope, my mainframe is not old rusty laptop - its pretty fine workstation, and my connection is pretty fast - i m actually not suffering much of any other lags beside instance wide wiperaid ones:)
  
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Re: Lag in Wilderness areas
Reply #24 - Jan 28th, 2015 at 5:43am
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OldCoaly wrote on Jan 26th, 2015 at 6:48am:
Per instance change, per character.  Some restrictions and limitations apply.


Does not work in raids.
  

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