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Hot Topic (More than 35 Replies) Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager (Read 19896 times)
Rubbinns
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Re: Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager
Reply #25 - Jan 29th, 2015 at 10:05am
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Don't get me wrong because I love swashbucklers. Did 4 lives on various set ups with it. Pally is so markedly more efficient in so many more categories overall that it becomes really hard not to play it.


Feynman wrote on Jan 29th, 2015 at 3:15am:
don't think there's a 1-hander that will let Holy Sword match the crit profile of swash + forester's brush hook.

There probably isn't. But it lets you use bastard sword and orb. Getting glances and weapon effects, 13-20 crit range in DC, and higher base damage.

Feynman wrote on Jan 29th, 2015 at 3:15am:
Swash does evasion better, since you can SWF + shield and still get greater SD stance

Pally can splash 2 for evasion and never fail a save. Or in heavy armor and have no fail saves and 100 mrr. After making the save, applying resists, absorption, and then MRR for half. Trivializes reflex based spells with 60% physical damage reduction on top of that.
« Last Edit: Jan 29th, 2015 at 10:09am by Rubbinns »  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager
Reply #26 - Jan 29th, 2015 at 5:34pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Jan 29th, 2015 at 10:05am:
Pally can splash 2 for evasion and never fail a save. Or in heavy armor and have no fail saves and 100 mrr. After making the save, applying resists, absorption, and then MRR for half. Trivializes reflex based spells with 60% physical damage reduction on top of that.



Right, but swash can get evasion AND Greater SD stance AND swf AND shield mastery doublestrike bonus AND PRR/MRR in the 120ish range AND 11-20/x4 crits in DC.

Yea, a THF harmor paladin can squeeze out a little more DPS, but light armor doesn't qualify for greater SD stance and costs you a good bit of *RR.

I have a 28 pure paladin, Oathblade and Epic Blazing Sun, still the old build with both SWF and SM lines, and while the DPS is comparable, the stalwart swashbuckler has evasion. The paladin heals a lot better, but I bet I could fix some of that going human/PDK instead of helf.
  

"Science makes godlike -- it is all over with priests and gods when man becomes scientific. Moral: science is the forbidden as such -- it alone is forbidden. Science is the *first* sin, the *original* sin. *This alone is morality.* ``Thou shalt not know'' -- the rest follows."
-- Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager
Reply #27 - Jan 29th, 2015 at 8:31pm
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I dont think the dps is close. My orb pally w bastard sword just does more dps, has higher saves, hamp, prr, mrr and base damage than any swash build. Never once did I wish I had evasion on it. Doublestrike is higher on swashbucklers now with orb and shield mastery no longer working. But that is about it.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager
Reply #28 - Jan 29th, 2015 at 8:53pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Jan 29th, 2015 at 8:31pm:
I dont think the dps is close. My orb pally w bastard sword just does more dps, has higher saves, hamp, prr, mrr and base damage than any swash build. Never once did I wish I had evasion on it. Doublestrike is higher on swashbucklers now with orb and shield mastery no longer working. But that is about it.



And they get a better crit profile, and they get damage bonus with Precision...

I'm getting base hits of 100-120 and crits of 450-500, and my gear sucks.

Don't get me wrong, my paladin is fine, but it's a different character. It can't trap, for example...
  

"Science makes godlike -- it is all over with priests and gods when man becomes scientific. Moral: science is the forbidden as such -- it alone is forbidden. Science is the *first* sin, the *original* sin. *This alone is morality.* ``Thou shalt not know'' -- the rest follows."
-- Friedrich Nietzsche
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FM
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Re: Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager
Reply #29 - Jan 29th, 2015 at 9:36pm
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Feynman wrote on Jan 29th, 2015 at 8:53pm:
And they get a better crit profile


With what, a shuriken?

Personally I would rather use a 15-20 x4 khopesh or a 13-20x3 Rapier than a 15-20 x3 (insert Swashbuckling weapon here). Out of the four one handed weapons I would be interested in using, khopesh, pick, Dwarven axe, and bastard sword, Swash only affects pick, and it loses to Holy Sword there as well.

Swash gives a better crit profile on 8 weapons out of 40, and 4 of those 8 weapons are throwing hammer, dart, sickle, and throwing axe.

Unless you are intent on using a shuriken, kama, or light hammer, Holy Sword is equal or better.
« Last Edit: Jan 29th, 2015 at 9:43pm by FM »  
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Re: Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager
Reply #30 - Jan 29th, 2015 at 11:00pm
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Feynman wrote on Jan 29th, 2015 at 8:53pm:
I'm getting base hits of 100-120 and crits of 450-500

Can break that at lv 18 with orb pally using twinblade. 1k crits.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Teh_Troll
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Re: Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager
Reply #31 - Jan 30th, 2015 at 9:23am
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I have been experimenting with a lot of swashbuckler builds and nothing comes close to the 12 bard 6 fighter 2 rogue splash so far. We are talking about 40% shield bash getting with 6 fighter lvls (20%) and feat (20%) increasing your overall crit rate, tenacious defense, skirmisher, coup de grace, exploit weakness, godly saves, strong defense, swift defense, +6 Enhancement bonus to weapon from swashbuckler cores, stalwart enhancements and harper plus 1400 hp if strength build or 1600 if con build, 160 prr 80 mrr, evasion, spells, 30% dodge, stunning shield... and so on. That is insane  Shocked.
« Last Edit: Jan 30th, 2015 at 9:24am by »  
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Re: Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager
Reply #32 - Jan 30th, 2015 at 10:07am
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I have been experimenting with a lot of swashbuckler builds and nothing comes close to the 12 bard 6 fighter 2 rogue splash so far. We are talking about 40% shield bash getting with 6 fighter lvls (20%) and feat (20%) increasing your overall crit rate, tenacious defense, skirmisher, coup de grace, exploit weakness, godly saves, strong defense, swift defense, +6 Enhancement bonus to weapon from swashbuckler cores, stalwart enhancements and harper plus 1400 hp if strength build or 1600 if con build, 160 prr 80 mrr, evasion, spells, 30% dodge, stunning shield... and so on. That is insane  Shocked.

Godly saves? Looks like you're missing 2 Paladin. How're you getting "Godly" saves?
  

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Re: Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager
Reply #33 - Jan 30th, 2015 at 10:47am
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Arkat wrote on Jan 30th, 2015 at 10:07am:
Godly saves? Looks like you're missing 2 Paladin. How're you getting "Godly" saves?

Hardly a Problem on a swashbuckler. My reflex save is at 70 + with only 8 starting points in dex. I can post it when i have got enough time.
« Last Edit: Jan 30th, 2015 at 10:48am by »  
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Re: Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager
Reply #34 - Jan 30th, 2015 at 10:51am
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Arkat wrote on Jan 30th, 2015 at 10:07am:
Godly saves? Looks like you're missing 2 Paladin. How're you getting "Godly" saves?



Mine is a helf paladin dilly Tongue
  

"Science makes godlike -- it is all over with priests and gods when man becomes scientific. Moral: science is the forbidden as such -- it alone is forbidden. Science is the *first* sin, the *original* sin. *This alone is morality.* ``Thou shalt not know'' -- the rest follows."
-- Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager
Reply #35 - Jan 30th, 2015 at 10:53am
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Rubbinns wrote on Jan 29th, 2015 at 11:00pm:
Can break that at lv 18 with orb pally using twinblade. 1k crits.



Again, crap gear; I'm dex-built with only like 40 DEX.

Oh, and I'm critting a good bit more often....
  

"Science makes godlike -- it is all over with priests and gods when man becomes scientific. Moral: science is the forbidden as such -- it alone is forbidden. Science is the *first* sin, the *original* sin. *This alone is morality.* ``Thou shalt not know'' -- the rest follows."
-- Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager
Reply #36 - Jan 30th, 2015 at 2:18pm
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Hardly a Problem on a swashbuckler. My reflex save is at 70 + with only 8 starting points in dex. I can post it when i have got enough time.


No need. 12 Bard/6 Fighter/2 Rogue was pretty much the standard Swashbuckler build for the two months after Swashbuckler came out.

Feynman wrote on Jan 30th, 2015 at 10:51am:
Mine is a helf paladin dilly Tongue


This requires spending 17 points in the Helf tree to get a +5, yes?

Feynman wrote on Jan 30th, 2015 at 10:53am:
Oh, and I'm critting a good bit more often....


Hasn't this been addressed already?
« Last Edit: Jan 30th, 2015 at 2:52pm by FM »  
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Re: Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager
Reply #37 - Jan 30th, 2015 at 3:01pm
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FM wrote on Jan 30th, 2015 at 2:18pm:
This requires spending 17 points in the Helf tree to get a +5, yes?



Yea; I stopped at +4, but on a DEX build, that means 80+ reflex save, which I would not mind at all in later EE stuff.
  

"Science makes godlike -- it is all over with priests and gods when man becomes scientific. Moral: science is the forbidden as such -- it alone is forbidden. Science is the *first* sin, the *original* sin. *This alone is morality.* ``Thou shalt not know'' -- the rest follows."
-- Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager
Reply #38 - Jan 30th, 2015 at 3:19pm
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Feynman wrote on Jan 30th, 2015 at 10:53am:
Oh, and I'm critting a good bit more often....

yeah. I get to use thunderforged on 13-20. sickle/scythe/whatever isnt competing with that.

Quote:
godly saves

your will save is meh. Unless you went cha based and took force of personality.

Quote:
nothing comes close to the 12 bard 6 fighter 2 rogue splash so far


yes. that is pretty much what i posted earlier. the ravager build does more dps though. but loses hp and prr from stalwart.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Teh_Troll
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Re: Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager
Reply #39 - Jan 30th, 2015 at 3:36pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Jan 30th, 2015 at 3:19pm:
yeah. I get to use thunderforged on 13-20. sickle/scythe/whatever isnt competing with that.

your will save is meh. Unless you went cha based and took force of personality.


yes. that is pretty much what i posted earlier. the ravager build does more dps though. but loses hp and prr from stalwart.

no.
« Last Edit: Jan 30th, 2015 at 3:38pm by »  
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Re: Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager
Reply #40 - Jan 30th, 2015 at 3:39pm
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FM wrote on Jan 30th, 2015 at 2:18pm:
No need. 12 Bard/6 Fighter/2 Rogue was pretty much the standard Swashbuckler build for the two months after Swashbuckler came out.


This requires spending 17 points in the Helf tree to get a +5, yes?


Hasn't this been addressed already?

Enhancement wise different with vanguard and harper but swash and stalwart still remains plus not a con but a strength build obviously.
« Last Edit: Jan 30th, 2015 at 3:40pm by »  
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Re: Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager
Reply #41 - Jan 30th, 2015 at 3:40pm
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no.

much yes
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Rubbinns
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Re: Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager
Reply #42 - Jan 30th, 2015 at 3:47pm
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Enhancement wise different with vanguard and harper but swash and stalwart still remains plus not a con but a strength build obviously.

cant fit those into a con build. dwarf racial takes up too much ap.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Teh_Troll
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Re: Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager
Reply #43 - Jan 30th, 2015 at 3:48pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Jan 30th, 2015 at 3:40pm:
much yes

Exploit weakness powered with shield bashing (40%) resulting in a much much better crit rate overall, 80 strength, TF weapon has +20 enhancement bonus gotten from base enhancement and enhancement bonuses from stalwart, swashbuckler and active past life enchant weapon, also resonant arms, 70% fortification bypass, 110 + damage mod, crit profile is 15-20 x3 without exploit weakness, know the angels, perfect single weapon fighting, reign (7/9/11]d20 Sonic and [7/9/11]d20 Electrical damage on 19-20), volcanos edge/anvil of thunder (19-20), headmans chop (8% dps), 50% doublestrike without boost, 75 % attack speed with boost and much more. Now your turn ?
« Last Edit: Jan 30th, 2015 at 3:56pm by »  
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Teh_Troll
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Re: Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager
Reply #44 - Jan 30th, 2015 at 3:49pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Jan 30th, 2015 at 3:47pm:
cant fit those into a con build. dwarf racial takes up too much ap.

Pdk is far superior of course.
  
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Re: Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager
Reply #45 - Jan 30th, 2015 at 4:16pm
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, 80 strength

can be gotten on any build

Quote:
Exploit weakness powered with shield bashing (40%)

youre bashing with a buckler.  ravager crit range is higher and multiplier is too.

Quote:
TF weapon has +20 enhancement bonus gotten from base enhancement and enhancement bonuses from stalwart, swashbuckler and active past life enchant weapon,

stalwart +3 is only thing you get over ravager based

Quote:
also resonant arms,


can get that on every build

Quote:
70% fortification bypass


75 with twists

Quote:
perfect single weapon fighting, reign (7/9/11]d20 Sonic and [7/9/11]d20 Electrical damage on 19-20), volcanos edge/anvil of thunder (19-20),

same.  can get that on any build.

Quote:
headmans chop (8% dps)


can get that on any build

Quote:
50% doublestrike without boost


same. except killer gives me 71%

Quote:
75 % attack speed with boost


can get that on any build


Quote:
Now your turn

higher sneak attack scales with melee power

pain touch scales with melee power

envenomed blades

knockdown immunity

11-20 x3 on hand axe in LD. or 13-20 x4 on light pick in DC

vicious on weapons 2d6 scales with melee power

  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Teh_Troll
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Re: Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager
Reply #46 - Jan 30th, 2015 at 4:35pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Jan 30th, 2015 at 4:16pm:
can be gotten on any build
Of course  Roll Eyes, especially without divine might.
youre bashing with a buckler.  ravager crit range is higher and multiplier is too.
uhm it is called auto bash sir and will improve your overall crits because when you bash you will also get more stacks from exploit weakness. Ravager crit rage is trash.
stalwart +3 is only thing you get over ravager based
Stalwart gives you far more than that btw Smiley

can get that on every build

75 with twists

same.  can get that on any build.
Yet easier for bards and better (more songs).

can get that on any build
easier to get for bards without wasting ap.

same. except killer gives me 71%
killer is trash and a waste of ap.

can get that on any build


higher sneak attack scales with melee power

pain touch scales with melee power

envenomed blades

knockdown immunity

11-20 x3 on hand axe in LD. or 13-20 x4 on light pick in DC

vicious on weapons 2d6 scales with melee power
You kidding me ? Is that all ? Also i get venomed blades as well but it is trash and too expensive

« Last Edit: Jan 30th, 2015 at 4:43pm by »  
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Rubbinns
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Re: Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager
Reply #47 - Jan 30th, 2015 at 4:41pm
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Of course  , especially without divine might.

it's called rage. Look it up.

Quote:
improve your overall crits because when you bash you will also get more stacks from exploit weakness

so you have to hit more to match my crit profile. cool

Quote:
You kidding me ? is that all ?

more than stalwarts, so
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager
Reply #48 - Jan 30th, 2015 at 4:42pm
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killer is trash and a waste of ap.

beats your 40% shield and lower doublestrike neener neener
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Need Build Help With Swashbuckler And Ravager
Reply #49 - Jan 30th, 2015 at 4:44pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Jan 30th, 2015 at 4:42pm:
beats your 40% shield and lower doublestrike neener neener

No.
  
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