is spinning ice a tactical feat?

would like to know if this pdk is worth to be taken to raise the dc
"Cormyrean Knight Training: You now use Charisma or Strength, whichever is higher, for attack and damage with shortswords, longswords, bastard swords, and greatswords. In addition, as long as your Charisma remains higher than your Strength and you are wielding one of the above weapons, you receive a bonus to the DCs of your Tactical Feats equal to 1/3 your Charisma modifier"

The bonus form Know the Angles also applies to the DC...so if you can add in some INT into your build you'll get a few more DCs out of it.

I have a wolf bard with a high 70's freezing ice dc.

Lehane wrote on Feb 19^th, 2015 at 9:58am:


PDK Bard 16/Fighter 3/Rogue 1 heavy armor is a better split than those for defensive stance, epic song, higher DCs, longer freeze time (advantages depending on which build is utilized).

rest wrote on Feb 21^st, 2015 at 3:14am:


Frankly, a wolf sounds potentially better than any of the other builds mentioned. Is it a Bard/Ranger/Druid split? How is the range on the freeze cleave? Does charisma to damage get lost when in animal form, or is PDK not being used?

FM why 1 rogue?

i'm already thinkin to do a warchanter with heavy armor, but i wanna take 3 lvls of barb

(gonna use greatsword, so more potential on glancing blows and supreme cleave)

if i'll really do that, no room for 3 lvls of fighter

i'm still meditating on the best combo, when i'll do it, i'll post it, with a video and the record on a speed run i hope

FM wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2015 at 2:45pm:

Tested this recently after a post with 5 foot. Cleave and great cleave have a weird radius of effect when standing just outside the range of the ship dummy. the radius on great cleave resembles a pack man with the mouth facing up. meaning it will hit everything around in an almost complete circle except for the dummy directly in front. to test this grab a greatsword and stand just out of great cleave range. turn your toon around and you will be hitting the dummy once you have turned to any direction except directly in front.

cleave and paladin cleaves and supreme cleave all have the same reach. just that cleave has less radius of effect. tested with greatswords, bastard swords, hand axe, rapiers, shortswords, maul, staff, falchion, light pick. Using a swf pally and a thf barb to make sure feats didnt extend reach. neither did toon size. one was drow other toon was shadar.

I didnt test to see if moving forwards or backwards would extend reach for two handers more than one handers. it probably wont but it will extend the reach of your blow slightly even if moving backwards compared to standing still.

Rubbinns wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2015 at 3:08pm:

Thanks. That's good info. It kinda backs up my feeling that the Sun Blade only looked like it extended reach over a short sword. Of course, you were talking exclusively about cleaves, and not normal swings.

FM wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 1:06am:

yes. all weapons i listed in post were tested and have same reach with cleaves. i did test normal swings and it was also same reach.

MadCookieQueen wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 9:05am:


Yes, rolling with 20% ASF. I play in Divine Crusader, so I'm relying on Consecration and Cocoon for healing. Only spells that really get cast are displacement and haste, so it doesn't matter if once in a while they need to get cast twice.

Rubbinns wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 7:56am:


Good to know. Am tempted to go swash short sword now, but not sure I like the idea of wearing light armor. Really a decision of whether to use swf bastard sword or thf greatsword. If only I had math ability.

SayWhatAgain wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 10:36am:



also tought about that, 15 4 1 for barb speed and +6 str and +6 con from stalwart

but still i can't find peace to decide which is the strongest and which is the funniest

could also take 14 3 3 for slaughter, and play in fury (+10W with adrenaline, yummy )

but in that case, rage and stalwart stance will be a problem... do you know if bard rage spell, triggers all the effect from enanchements and ed that say "+X while raged"?

Lehane wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 11:29am:


lol that would be a fkin rocket!!

can't w8 to get 28 with my toon to ITR him!!

MadCookieQueen wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 12:08pm:

depends on bard build. swashbuklers with stalwart stance can get by without sf pot penalties. Or on dwarf con the sf pots arent crippling, but even that build I didnt bother using them. Cocoon and consecrated ground with on kill heals from DC is enough to melee. If ccw/csw has to be cast then I'm already running for better position and applying buff/scroll/pot.