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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) U29 AA Shuriken (Read 82643 times)
5 Foot Step
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Re: U25 Shuriken
Reply #225 - Oct 30th, 2015 at 1:54am
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harharharhar wrote on Oct 29th, 2015 at 11:03pm:
What did I ever do to you? Or 5 Foot for that matter?


It's nothing personal, just that your testing is suspect aside from the fact that you're obviously and admittedly biased because of the whole Firewall thing.
  

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U29 AA Shuriken
Reply #226 - Jan 13th, 2016 at 12:11pm
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Updated for level cap increase.

The Blender v3.1


Race: Half-Elf
Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Class: 20 Monk


Stats:......... (36 pt build)

Strength............8
Dexterity...........18 (+ level ups)
Constitution........8
Intelligence........12
Wisdom.............18
Charisma............8
(+5 or better tomes recommended)


Feat Progression

Level 1   : Point Blank Shot
Level 1(M)Shuriken Expertise
Level 1   : Rogue Dilletante
Level 2(M)Precision
Level 3   : Quickdraw
Level 6   : Rapid Shot
Level 6(M)10K Stars
Level 9   : Precise Shot
Level 12 : Improved Critical
Level 15 : Improved Precise Shot
Level 18 : Completionist
Level 21 : Overwhelming Critical
Level 24 : Weapon Focus: Thrown
Level 26 : Epic Spellpower (electrical)
Level 27 : Weapon Focus: Ranged
Level 28 : Doubleshot
Level 29 : Harbinger
Level 30 : Combat Archery
Level 30 : Scion of the Plane of Air
(WF at 18 and Imp Martial Arts at 27 if not Completionist)


Enhancements

Ninja: 41 AP

Core 6/6
Sneak Attack Training 4/4 (8 pts)
Faster Sneaking 2/3 (4 pts)
Stealthy 3/3
Acrobatic 3/3
Agility 3/3
Sting of the Ninja (2 pts)
+1 DEX
+1 DEX
No Mercy 3/3 (6 pts)
Crippling Strike (2 pts)


Racial: 15 AP

Core 4/5 (3 pts)(Human Damage AB, Elf DEX x2, Elf precision x1)
Improved Recovery
Improved Rogue Dilletante 1&2
Arcanum 1/3
Arcane Archer




AA: 24 AP

Core 4/6 (6 pts)
Energy of the Wild 3/3
Elemental Arrows 4/4 (8 pts) (electric)
Inferno Shot 3/3
Soul Magic
Dispelling Shot 1/3
+1 DEX
+1 DEX



Epic Destiny: Shadowdancer

+6 dex
grim precision
sealed soul
executioner shot
etc.



Twists: 4/3/2/1/1

Shadowdancer Echoes
Whirling Wrists
AB: Damage
Rejuvenation Cocoon
Enlightenment


Gear:

In progress - ToEE set + whatever
« Last Edit: May 5th, 2016 at 1:39pm by 5 Foot Step »  

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Re: U29 AA Shuriken
Reply #227 - Jan 27th, 2016 at 5:14pm
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i have some doubts that combat archery works on shuriken...
  
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5 Foot Step
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Re: U29 AA Shuriken
Reply #228 - Jan 27th, 2016 at 5:18pm
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Orange Flash wrote on Jan 27th, 2016 at 5:14pm:
i have some doubts that combat archery works on shuriken...


Combat Archery:

Your ranged damage is increased by +1[W]. You also gain 2% dodge bonus when using a ranged weapon.

Whether it's worth taking is a different question. I would only take it if your dodge is not already capped. I haven't done the math, but I'm pretty sure Great Dexterity adds more dps even if you're not hitting an even number with cap 30.
« Last Edit: Jan 27th, 2016 at 5:23pm by 5 Foot Step »  

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Re: U29 AA Shuriken
Reply #229 - Jan 27th, 2016 at 5:21pm
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Orange Flash wrote on Jan 27th, 2016 at 5:14pm:
i have some doubts that combat archery works on shuriken...


It doesn't; not at all, so don't even bother with it.
  
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Re: U29 AA Shuriken
Reply #230 - Jan 27th, 2016 at 7:33pm
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this is still a terrible red name dps build, for the record. It will melt trash down quickly, which may be someones goal. but frankly, shiradi is arguably as good or better at that thanks to nerve venom. builds emphasizing spike damage in Fury of the Wild will kill trash basically as fast, perhaps faster, and won't be terrible against red names. You could even sort of adapt this build to doing that in Fury and taking full ranks in AA to get Slayer arrow.

Crit threat range is a lot less meaningful when 70% of your damage comes from Auto-Crit adrenaline's, and Vorpal procs (level drain in Legendary or Mortal Fear in reg Epics).

Not trying to be rude, but make constructive suggestions.

  
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Re: U29 AA Shuriken
Reply #231 - Jan 27th, 2016 at 7:37pm
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harharharhar wrote on Jan 27th, 2016 at 7:33pm:
Not trying to be rude


Indeed, you do it effortlessly!
  
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Re: U29 AA Shuriken
Reply #232 - Jan 27th, 2016 at 8:03pm
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[] wrote on Jan 27th, 2016 at 7:37pm:
Whining

  

Dear players,

The D&D rules you were familiar with were too simple to understand, so we're continuing our move away from them to needlessly confusing subsystems that will make your play experience less fun and invalidate old builds and loot. We hope you have fun working out what the fuck MRR, PRR, MP, SP, RP, CL, MCL and all the other bullshit we made up whilst drunk means.

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Re: U29 AA Shuriken
Reply #233 - Jan 28th, 2016 at 10:28am
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harharharhar wrote on Jan 27th, 2016 at 7:33pm:
this is still a terrible red name dps build, for the record. It will melt trash down quickly, which may be someones goal. but frankly, shiradi is arguably as good or better at that thanks to nerve venom. builds emphasizing spike damage in Fury of the Wild will kill trash basically as fast, perhaps faster, and won't be terrible against red names. You could even sort of adapt this build to doing that in Fury and taking full ranks in AA to get Slayer arrow.

Crit threat range is a lot less meaningful when 70% of your damage comes from Auto-Crit adrenaline's, and Vorpal procs (level drain in Legendary or Mortal Fear in reg Epics).

Not trying to be rude, but make constructive suggestions.



100s of elemental damage per shuriken is somehow terrible for red names?
  

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Re: U29 AA Shuriken
Reply #234 - Jan 28th, 2016 at 12:33pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 28th, 2016 at 10:28am:
100s of elemental damage per shuriken is somehow terrible for red names?


Objectively? Yes. I tested extensively and posted the results.

Moreover, if you went Racial AA for Slayer Arrow, you could also get MORE elemental damage per Shuriken going T5 Elemental Arrows. You could still be in FoTW, you could still do lots of proc damage, and you could still put up those very big and juicy Adrenal/Slayer shots that eat up red names.

Moreover, I'm going to post my mains current build soon, 14/6 Monk/Ranger that goes goes T5 DWS, and T4 AA (non-racial, crucial for AP to get KTA). T4 gives big elemental procs on boss mobs, but at 56 Wisdom with a little gear and 1 feat/1 twist (or no feat and twist if you ETR with Magister trained) a 63-64 DC paralyze that makes LE content completely trivial because you can paralyze EVERYTHING and then just level drain it down with T3 Crippling Flames/Ruby of Endless Night TF shuri. Bosses switch to Elemental arrows, flip to Archers Focus, get to 25 stacks fast with Aimed shot, Dual Boost, and go fucking nuts with Adrenaline and 10k/Manyshot.

Totally ridiculous.

A 20 Monk build could capture most of that builds selling points, and be FAR less end game/red name gimped if you chose to acknowledge the short coming of going T5 Ninja Spy and not AA on an Elf/Helf. But really, you should just add 6 Ranger levels and get better AP allocations.
  
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Re: U29 AA Shuriken
Reply #235 - Jan 28th, 2016 at 1:02pm
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You are describing a furyshot monkcher. Been there, done that, was fun,...but that train left the station a long ass time ago.
  

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Re: U29 AA Shuriken
Reply #236 - Jan 28th, 2016 at 1:11pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 28th, 2016 at 1:02pm:
You are describing a furyshot monkcher. Been there, done that, was fun,...but that train left the station a long ass time ago.


Like I said, you can stay pure monk and never use Manyshot and still be far less gimped with T5 AA and FoTW. You just keep conveniently ignoring.

Adrenaline + 10k + Slayer is very, very good. With 10k changes and Manyshot nerfs, in some ways it's the equal or even better than Furyshot + Slayer.

There is no bus that has left any station except in the case of Pure 20 monks that go T5 Ninja Spy. It's a horrible build, at this point in the game. 20 Monk AA Fury is at least competitive, though not the best.
  
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Re: U29 AA Shuriken
Reply #237 - Jan 28th, 2016 at 1:18pm
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Orange Flash wrote on Jan 27th, 2016 at 5:14pm:
i have some doubts that combat archery works on shuriken...


It works as long as you are using a ranged weapon and have the feat.
  
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5 Foot Step
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Re: U29 AA Shuriken
Reply #238 - Jan 28th, 2016 at 1:30pm
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harharharhar wrote on Jan 28th, 2016 at 1:11pm:
Like I said, you can stay pure monk and never use Manyshot and still be far less gimped with T5 AA and FoTW. You just keep conveniently ignoring.

Adrenaline + 10k + Slayer is very, very good. With 10k changes and Manyshot nerfs, in some ways it's the equal or even better than Furyshot + Slayer.

There is no bus that has left any station except in the case of Pure 20 monks that go T5 Ninja Spy. It's a horrible build, at this point in the game. 20 Monk AA Fury is at least competitive, though not the best.


Retro is fun. Granted.

You don't seriously expect me to take your word that it does more damage on average overall though, do you?
  

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Re: U29 AA Shuriken
Reply #239 - Jan 28th, 2016 at 1:48pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 28th, 2016 at 1:30pm:
Retro is fun. Granted.

You don't seriously expect me to take your word that it does more damage on average overall though, do you?


I don't give a shit what you believe or don't believe, but I do give a shit that you have zero testing or results to show anyone, you just are trying to save face by deflecting, I've tested pure 20 with T5 on the red named kobolds up against 14/6 and 12/6/2 with and without Manyshot.

I then shared that info with the world.

You have not, I suspect, done either. You go on believing whatever you want. I'll just stick to the data/evidence/objective truth. It's not even hard to do the math in your head. The fact is with level drain and mortal fear, average damage is meaningless, RoF is all that matters (and access to those equipment effects). Given that, the only DPS that matters is red named DPS, which your build is literally the worst possible version of thrower for. Moreover, even on trash, lining it up and Adren + DWS + 10k is still VASTLY superior to the literally nothing that your version offers with T5 Ninja Spy. No one should spend more than 6 pts in Ninja for DPS, and 11 for Shadow Fade if you like the Defense of 25% incorp. You're doing the community a disservice by misleading them to try and look smart.
« Last Edit: Jan 28th, 2016 at 1:51pm by harharharhar »  
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Re: U29 AA Shuriken
Reply #240 - Jan 28th, 2016 at 2:35pm
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harharharhar wrote on Jan 28th, 2016 at 1:48pm:
average damage is meaningless



I don't have time to produce whatever proof you accept. If I did, I would be producing it for several other builds first before I got around to this little side project. Furthermore, I have not made any claims of max dps that need backing up here. I merely tend to point out that I believe my builds to outperform yours because your theory is apparently unsound, your testing is obviously suspect, and your opinion is admittedly biased.

harharharhar wrote on Jan 28th, 2016 at 1:48pm:
your build is literally the worst possible version of thrower


You're the one making claims here. Convince me then.
  

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Re: U29 AA Shuriken
Reply #241 - Jan 28th, 2016 at 3:09pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 28th, 2016 at 2:35pm:
I don't have time to produce whatever proof you accept.


If I remember correctly..... For Sobby it's a screenshot! remember when he tried to use a single screenshot to explain dps and crit multiplers? 

Is this hate boner for 5fs a new thing? or have I just missed it up until now.
« Last Edit: Jan 28th, 2016 at 3:11pm by Grand »  
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Re: U29 AA Shuriken
Reply #242 - Jan 28th, 2016 at 3:49pm
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i also have 14 monk 6 ranger

adrenaline on arrow of slayng and sniper shot, lot of dps there, also elemental dmg, 2 extra feat, manyshot on earth stance with longbow rest of the time with shuri (i got a lgs tier 3 shuri!! Cheesy )
  
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Re: U29 AA Shuriken
Reply #243 - Jan 28th, 2016 at 4:09pm
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I cannot state that Jakeelala is 100% correct as I have not done scientific testing but gameplay experience so far indicates that he probably is.  You miss out on a ton of power in a shuriken build by without 6 levels of ranger for tier 5 DWS and Sniper Shot. 

For a ranger past life, I've recently been running a version of this build: http://www.ddovault.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1447486091.  The only deviations I made are less APs in Harper and more in AA for tier 4 elemental imbues and running in DC instead of FotW while refilling the destiny sphere karma.

Sniper shot, head shot, and mercy shot are 1 to 2 button trash kill shots that have short refresh timers.  Elemental imbue dmg per shuriken is around 125-150ish with ~200 spellpower, which is roughly 2-3 times the base damage of the shuriken.  Add in 40-70 sneak attack damage per shot and sniper shot, head shot and/or deception procs to keep sneak attacks up most of the time. Total damage per shuriken is roughly 250+ normal and 500+ crit per shuriken at lvl 21.  With dual boosts + manyshot/10k, it melts red nameds.

Full disclosure:  I'm only level 21 with this build, but it has facerolled everything and I see no reason it's power levels will drop off in upper EEs as it acquires more dex, epic feats, ranged power, spell power, end-game gear and I switch to FotW for even higher burst DPS.  If anything, it should get even stronger relative to the content. 
« Last Edit: Jan 28th, 2016 at 4:14pm by Digimonk »  
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Re: U29 AA Shuriken
Reply #244 - Jan 28th, 2016 at 4:33pm
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Grand wrote on Jan 28th, 2016 at 3:09pm:
If I remember correctly..... For Sobby it's a screenshot! remember when he tried to use a single screenshot to explain dps and crit multiplers? 

Is this hate boner for 5fs a new thing? or have I just missed it up until now.


You're out of your element Donny. See my Lama Red Kobold test numbers. Or don't, it's not like you actually care about anything but attention and trying to one up me (keep trying, good luck).
  
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Re: U29 AA Shuriken
Reply #245 - Jan 28th, 2016 at 4:35pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 28th, 2016 at 2:35pm:
I don't have time to produce whatever proof you accept. If I did, I would be producing it for several other builds first before I got around to this little side project. Furthermore, I have not made any claims of max dps that need backing up here. I merely tend to point out that I believe my builds to outperform yours because your theory is apparently unsound, your testing is obviously suspect, and your opinion is admittedly biased.


You're the one making claims here. Convince me then.


I accept your ungracious defeat. People who want red name DPS should not build this build. That is the point of my posts. Prove me otherwise, and we can have a grown up talk.
  
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Re: U29 AA Shuriken
Reply #246 - Jan 28th, 2016 at 4:52pm
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5 ft step is right, and everyone else is wrong: in the absence of old-school fury shot (no longer exists) that elemental damage + effects may very well outperform other trees; especially on a toon with magnified spell power (i.e. the palemaster and fvs AA builds I described).  The people on the other side of "the argument" (there isn't one) are comparing this to an ability that no longer exist in-game (i.e. furty shot, by Faggylala's own admission.)
  
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Re: U29 AA Shuriken
Reply #247 - Jan 28th, 2016 at 5:12pm
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harharharhar wrote on Jan 28th, 2016 at 4:35pm:
People who want a monkcher designed around dojo kobolds should not build this build.


FTFY
  

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Re: U29 AA Shuriken
Reply #248 - Jan 28th, 2016 at 5:13pm
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Now you're just being silly!

Cheesy
  
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Re: U29 AA Shuriken
Reply #249 - Jan 28th, 2016 at 5:55pm
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[] wrote on Jan 28th, 2016 at 5:13pm:
I know nothing about builds, just how to suck dicks!

  

Dear players,

The D&D rules you were familiar with were too simple to understand, so we're continuing our move away from them to needlessly confusing subsystems that will make your play experience less fun and invalidate old builds and loot. We hope you have fun working out what the fuck MRR, PRR, MP, SP, RP, CL, MCL and all the other bullshit we made up whilst drunk means.

Love,

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