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Hot Topic (More than 35 Replies) Updated Tinkerhell (12 Arty/6Bard/2Rogue) (Read 19102 times)
5 Foot Step
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Re: Updated Tinkerhell (12 Arty/6Bard/2Rogue)
Reply #50 - Apr 25th, 2015 at 1:25am
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harharharhar wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 12:27am:
You are correct, I was mistaken about that. Thank you for the correction.

So let's do the math:

Throwing axe becomes 18-20x4, or 15-20x4 with Imp Crit. So .7*(1)+.3*(4)=1.9 Power * 1.5 (1 Throw + 50% Doubleshot) = 2.85xPhysical Damage

vs.

Shuriken at 15-20x3 = .7*(1)+.3(3) = 1.6 Power * 2.1 (1 Throw + 50% Doubleshot + 60 Dex/Shuriken Expertise) = 3.36

3.36 > 2.85

40% Greater Physical Damage with Shurikens than Hand Axes, theoretically. Not even close. This does not include procs, which are more prevalent on shurikens.


NP. Doesn't that type of math actually favor an Advanced Ninja Training build, though?

Shuriken at 15-20x2 = .7*(1)+.3(2) = 1.3 Power * 2.91 (1 Throw + 31% Doubleshot + 80 Dex/Shuriken Expertise/ANT) = 3.783
« Last Edit: Apr 25th, 2015 at 1:28am by 5 Foot Step »  

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harharharhar
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Re: Updated Tinkerhell (12 Arty/6Bard/2Rogue)
Reply #51 - Apr 25th, 2015 at 2:08am
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I fat fingered my iPhone calculator, good catch. This is why I usually do everything in a spreadsheet, much better accuracy.

And yes, before enhancements, it does. But in Bard with the doubleshot and raw damage increases it's pretty close to equal if both builds go T5 Mechanic, but also if you go T5 Swash for Exploit Weakness which is excellent and roughly T5 Mech's equal.

I do believe, and will try to post it soon, that a Rogue heavy centered thrower with the ToEE set will be tops Thrower DPS after most recent Rogue changes. Still working out the details.
« Last Edit: Apr 25th, 2015 at 2:11am by harharharhar »  
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Re: Updated Tinkerhell (12 Arty/6Bard/2Rogue)
Reply #52 - Apr 25th, 2015 at 10:36am
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So if I'm correct that would be for Nightforge Spike (base 18-20/x3):

Nightforge Spike at 11-20/x4 = .5*(1)+.5*(4) = 2.5 Power * 1.5 (1 Throw + 50% Doubleshot) = 3.75

sure, less procs than with shuriken, but actually not looking bad for physical damage
  
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harharharhar
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Re: Updated Tinkerhell (12 Arty/6Bard/2Rogue)
Reply #53 - Apr 25th, 2015 at 12:06pm
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Yeah, on the physical damage part that's correct. A lot of extra damage from thrower builds comes form the extra proc damage of the extra missiles. With the changes to SA damage and ranged power, that's going to get even more true. And if you can't crit on every throw, a thrower that relies on a lot of crits for damage is at a big disadvantage.
  
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Camaro1k95
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Re: Updated Tinkerhell (12 Arty/6Bard/2Rogue)
Reply #54 - May 19th, 2015 at 5:56pm
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Hey notharhar

(From another thread)
harharharhar wrote on May 7th, 2015 at 2:51pm:
Alternative that is roughly similar but trades massive RP enhanced SA damage for raw physical damage is:
10 Rogue/8Bard/2Fighter (I like the bard casting, but you only need 3/4 Bard levels for Swash and some nice T4 damage. So you could up the Rogue or swap out fighter completely for something you like better). DC is the most DPS in my calcs for this build, as the threat range is a bigger boost to builds with higher crit multi's (x3 from Swash).

I've tried building one of the rogue/bard throwers, and it's currently level 10.  Finding the throw speed to be REALLY slow.  How are you compensating?  I only started with 10 Cha, so UMD'ing Tensors is going to have to wait until closer to 20.
  
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Re: Updated Tinkerhell (12 Arty/6Bard/2Rogue)
Reply #55 - May 20th, 2015 at 5:52pm
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Camaro1k95 wrote on May 19th, 2015 at 5:56pm:
Hey notharhar

(From another thread)
I've tried building one of the rogue/bard throwers, and it's currently level 10.  Finding the throw speed to be REALLY slow.  How are you compensating?  I only started with 10 Cha, so UMD'ing Tensors is going to have to wait until closer to 20.


Uh... level it up? Need dex and doublestrike and all of those feats / twists your missing for speed. At lvl 10 it will feel pretty gimpy, especially if you don't have any swash crit rate or if your not using the correct shuri.
  
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harharharhar
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Re: Updated Tinkerhell (12 Arty/6Bard/2Rogue)
Reply #56 - May 20th, 2015 at 8:21pm
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i havent been in game for a couple weeks due to RL stuff, but it's been brought to my attention that Bard SWB crit multi is still broken. I have not verified it myself, but several people say they have and I can't refute it. So for the time being this is dead, like DDO itself.
  
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Re: Updated Tinkerhell (12 Arty/6Bard/2Rogue)
Reply #57 - May 21st, 2015 at 8:14pm
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Went and checked. 62ish damage about 160 dmg on crits, seems to be more than seeker would account for, but less than a x3 so maybe it is more than ranged power is not being multiplied or something.
  
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Re: Updated Tinkerhell (12 Arty/6Bard/2Rogue)
Reply #58 - May 21st, 2015 at 10:10pm
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The crit multiplier is broken, even Turbine knows that it is broken. If you want to test then take off all gear and turn off all but the most essential points to get the swashbuckling stance. Then disjoint a couple of item back to +0, and viola actual clarity.

Crit mult is broken on swashbuckler.
  
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