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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) rogue. what level do G xbows start shining? (Read 29208 times)
Vendui
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #75 - May 25th, 2015 at 9:51pm
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Well done, that's quite impressive for meat runs. Your numbers are surprisingly near to the results I pulled from a 10 minute duration scripted test I ran for both weapons. 

Heavy repeater-  195.158678 per minute
GxB-                  126.984765 per minute.


Good.. ill use those numbers and forget about adding on DShot then Cheesy

There, added Gbows to the post.. Broken down so mr whiney could read it better..
« Last Edit: May 25th, 2015 at 9:56pm by Vendui »  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #76 - May 25th, 2015 at 9:59pm
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Thank you
  

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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #77 - May 25th, 2015 at 10:05pm
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WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on May 25th, 2015 at 9:59pm:
Thank you


Yes, i know i used GS, i could have used Thunderforge instead.. but the data will still show the same, Greatbow being slightly better than repeater, even moreso with crit based effects coming into play, due to its higher crit range and multiplier.
  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #78 - May 25th, 2015 at 10:22pm
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When I was pure Arti, the damage I was doing with a TF GxB was just plain freakish. I can only imagine what its like now. I only TRed out of it cause I always stole Agro and couldn't take the punches, and the melees would shit a solid gold eggroll trying to get kills as I ran around with the whole Mob trying to eat my gizzard
  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #79 - May 25th, 2015 at 10:23pm
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Vendui wrote on May 25th, 2015 at 9:29pm:
Edited:
Oops i for some reason went +10 dmg isntead of +9 for repeaters, reworked numbers.

Repeaters:

Full Mechanic tree gives: (Assuming lvl 20 rogue)

Sharpshooter - +7 dmg
Sniper - 1d6 SA
Expert Builder - +1 Crit Multi
Hipflask - +1 Dmg, + 2d6 SA
Improved Detection: +1 dmg, +1 SA
Base 10d6 SA from rogue levels

Greensteel:
1.50 [1d10] + 5     ; 19-20 x2
+9 Dmg, +15d6 Sneak Attack, +1 crit multi, x2 crit range (Feat), + Overwhelming Crit

Becomes: 16-29 + 15-90 SA ; 17-18 x3, 19-20 x4

Crits:
Using the Bolts per Minute from Forest - 196. 10% of those were x4 multi, 10% x3.
196*10%=19.6, Lets round for maths sake and say each is 20 shots
156 shots land as normal hits - (16*156) to (29*156) = a range of 2496-4524dmg
20 shots land as Crit x3 - ((16*20)*3) to ((29*20)*3)  = range of 960-1740
20 shots land as Crit x4 - ((16*20)*4) to ((29*20)*4)  = range of 1280-2320
For a total of:  4736 to 8584 dmg per minute

Sneak attack is unaffected by criticals, so an additional (15*196) to (90*196) = 2940 to 17640 dmg added on for grand total of 7676 to 26224 dmg per minute, or  128 to 437 dmg per second


Typing up Gbows now, will add right here.. ---v

Great Crossbow

Full Mechanic tree gives: (Assuming lvl 20 rogue)

Sharpshooter - +14 dmg, +5d6 SA
Sniper - 3d6 SA, +2(w)
Expert Builder - +2 Crit Multi
Hipflask - +2 Dmg, + 2d6 SA
Improved Detection: +1 dmg, +1 SA
Base 10d6 SA from rogue levels

Greensteel:
1.50 [2d8] + 5    ; 18-20 x2
+2(w), +17 Dmg, +21d6 Sneak Attack, +2 crit multi, x2 crit range (Feat), + Overwhelming Crit
3.5(2d8)+22 + 21d6    ; 15-18 x4, 19-20 x5
29 to 50 + 21 to 126   ; 15-18 x4, 19-20 x5

Crits:
Using the Bolts per Minute from Forest - 126. 10% of those were x5 multi, 20% x4.
126*10%=12.6, Lets round for maths sake and say each is 13 shots
87 shots land as normal hits - (29*87) to (50*87) = a range of 2523-4350 dmg
13 shots land as Crit x5 - ((29*13)*5) to ((50*13)*5)  = range of 1885-3250
26 shots land as Crit x4 - ((29*26)*4) to ((50*26)*4)  = range of 3016-5200
For a total of:  7424 to 12800 dmg per minute

Once again, sneak attack doesnt crit so we add that on for a total of (21*126) to (126*126) for a grand total of 10070 to 28676 dmg per minute, or  168 to 478 dmg per second.


So, as we can see here.. The dmg spread, is very close together. It all depends on your flavor of kill, the greatbow dealing slightly more per second than the repeater.



Nicely done Ollie.

Especially solid,  that you didn't rise to the bait when it was thrown at you multiple times.

Ollie said=
So, as we can see here.. The dmg spread, is very close together. It all depends on your flavor of kill, the greatbow dealing slightly more per second than the repeater.

To this I will point out a few important things left unsaid by the numbers.

First, @126 per minute with sniper up, you will  engage any vorpal triggered abilities that you have up every 5 seconds on average. That rate of Vorpal effect ranged is quite good, but I would guess this is why some here are partial to Fury in spite of it's lack luster Ranged power. This is because currently Fury Eternal triggers on GxB vorpal strikes, meaning 4.78 Adrenaline gained back per minute, accompanied by disproportionately large Adrenaline shots. 6k-12k.

Secondly, and more importantly to my eye. @126 per minute the GxB will knock down any mob or mobs (IPS) every 5 seconds yes, every 5 seconds. Take a moment to think about that, it is a no-save knockdown with a effective 5 second cool down.

Of course there are some other piddly things such as the greater gain for GxB via the many +[W] boosts, 100% bleed scaling at 200% Ranged power, etc...but really your numbers and some consideration those two facts tell the Tale.
« Last Edit: May 25th, 2015 at 10:29pm by »  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #80 - May 25th, 2015 at 10:34pm
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Nicely done Ollie.

Especially solid,  that you didn't rise to the bait when it was thrown at you multiple times.

Ollie said=
So, as we can see here.. The dmg spread, is very close together. It all depends on your flavor of kill, the greatbow dealing slightly more per second than the repeater.

To this I will point out a few important things left unsaid by the numbers.

First, @126 per minute with sniper up, you will  engage any vorpal triggered abilities that you have up every 5 seconds on average. That rate of Vorpal effect ranged is quite good, but I would guess this is why some here are partial to Fury in spite of it's lack luster Ranged power. This is because currently Fury Eternal triggers on GxB vorpal strikes, meaning 4.78 Adrenaline gained back per minute, accompanied by disproportionately large Adrenaline shots. 6k-12k.

Secondly, and more importantly to my eye. @126 per minute the GxB will knock down any mob or mobs (IPS) every 5 seconds yes, every 5 seconds. Take a moment to think about that, it is a no-save knockdown with a effective 5 second cool down.

Of course there are some other piddly things such as the greater gain for GxB via the many +[W] boosts, 100% bleed scaling at 200% Ranged power, etc...but really your numbers and some consideration those two facts tell the Tale.


I see your shiny hook inside that worm... i aint bitin bitch, i did enough math for the day.. ^-^

[edit] fuckin ay.. how did i forget that tier 1 enhancment.. god dammit.. ~reruns for the bleed, cuz it affects everyfuckingthing...~
« Last Edit: May 25th, 2015 at 10:56pm by Vendui »  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #81 - May 25th, 2015 at 10:44pm
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Perish the thought. I have no interest in wasting more Gray-Klwts cranking numbers to beat what is clearly a dead horse now either.

As to the OP. I love Noobs, more than most as some here can attest, and I will always do what I can to help them out and steer them right. But at some point? it gets a bit much with people like you. So do yourself a favor, go play the sodding game and learn some things for yourself. Two months of publicly barking for heavy help disguised as posts for advice is enough. Stop mooching.
« Last Edit: May 25th, 2015 at 10:45pm by »  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #82 - May 26th, 2015 at 7:29pm
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GxB > Repeater, big surprise.
« Last Edit: May 26th, 2015 at 7:30pm by Hag Master »  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #83 - May 26th, 2015 at 7:46pm
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Yeah, yeah you were right, don't be a dick about it, do you keep score on a little chalkboard FFS?
  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #84 - May 26th, 2015 at 7:50pm
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Yeah, yeah you were right, don't be a dick about it, do you keep score on a little chalkboard FFS?

I do, im up by 3 points from last weeks -932 Cheesy
  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #85 - May 26th, 2015 at 8:00pm
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Yeah, yeah you were right, don't be a dick about it, do you keep score on a little chalkboard FFS?


No. I have a app.
  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #86 - May 26th, 2015 at 8:08pm
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Hag Master wrote on May 26th, 2015 at 8:00pm:
No. I have a app.


lol
« Last Edit: May 26th, 2015 at 8:09pm by WonderfulFoppyBint »  

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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #87 - May 26th, 2015 at 9:50pm
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I'll wrap up my my end in this thread by posting this big fucking post just because I am irritated and then irritated again that ive been irritated with the general attitude of a few people (hate it when Internet trolls give me their fucking lice).

This summarises everything thats wrong with ddo, so ill quote it (im using this because it says it best, not because I think anything bad about the poster):

Quote:
...  Our Mechanic questing group have run ROF tests in sets of 10 for a average result.

As you might imagine it's a subject close to our hearts, we have been doing it since the Mechanic pass hit Lamma and again with every update/stealth update.



QFTL

I know he isnt the only one of you out there who know these builds inside and out and has been testing the shit out of them.

The the reason I post and post again about  builds, items, and mechanics is to draw out what is the single greatest reason DDO is dying:

It has people like the majority of you on these boards who ARE testing, who DO KNOW the facts, yet you DONT share them openly on a regular basis or you guys do post in vague half informed snippets that a new player cant easily grasp.

I'm not just begging around for help (although I will admit to using "help" and other terms like it to get information), nor am I wanting builds handed to me, so much as drawing out facts from you guys (believe it or not, i could give a hag less).

If I was wanting handouts, I'd save my face by sending pms out to everyone asking for build help (sound familiar) , not by openly posting when I know I'm knee deep in trolls.

Its a solid fact that the other mmos thrive because they have a player base that shares information, publishes blogs, and hosts sites dedicated to disseminating hard facts on builds and game mechanics; ddo hasnt had that since the enhancement schism that drove hoards of players away (ive researched enough to figure that one out).

The ddo vault gets a couple of uber elite builds posted here and there with some general information (and its appreciated when it is), but overall, if its not a niche build that one of you thinks he's "discovered" or had an epiphany with, then the facts behind it dont see the light of day on open boards for new players to use.

I'm in game every day trying things and playing the game having fun.

I've gotten help from some of you directly with items, so Im not saying I dont pm occasionally.

I'd just like to see more transparency so this game can stop dying and gather more players.

That said, the mother boards for ddo are complete shit, filled with outdated and clouded information more like to do harm than good.

The other sites out there that do exist are mostly pre-schism and using that information is more harmful then helpful 90% of the time (leading to loss of play time, frustration, waste of cash, and having to start over after getting burned - been there, done that and shit like that drives people away too).

The ddo vault, like it or not, is one of the sole remaining sites where reliable information can be had at all, so I'm not knocking it too much.

Whatever you guys think of me, I respect those of you who do post and put information out there though;your pretty much the ones greasing the wheels on DDO's life support.

p.s.

Hag and/or your butttoy - prove me wrong in this. You can keep coming back and posting a bunch of random nasty shit about me asking for help, then take a minute and:

Post one link to a site,blog, or thread that predates this one and has definitive hard numbers/math and build designs for the post 25 mechanic build that would allow a newer player to make an informed decision as to wither to use a repeater or a G xbow in his ranged build

I'm pretty damn sure after days of googling that it didnt exist, but it does now.
« Last Edit: May 26th, 2015 at 9:52pm by Fail »  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #88 - May 26th, 2015 at 10:16pm
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Fail wrote on May 26th, 2015 at 9:50pm:
This summarises everything thats wrong with ddo, so ill quote it (im using this because it says it best, not because I think anything bad about the poster):

Quote:
...  Our Mechanic questing group have run ROF tests in sets of 10 for a average result.

As you might imagine it's a subject close to our hearts, we have been doing it since the Mechanic pass hit Lamma and again with every update/stealth update.




QFTL

I know he isnt the only one of you out there who know these builds inside and out and has been testing the shit out of them.



Why can't you run your own tests?

If you had instead invested the time and energy that you have spent constantly posting for help and asking for complete explanations on the Vault for the past two months, in testing and learning in game?

Well if you had done that you would know as much as anyone else here. With the added bonus that you wouldn't have had to kept coming back here asking the same questions just worded differently.

Seems to me your question was answered several times on the first page alone, you just didn't like the answer or understand it, who's fault is that.
« Last Edit: May 26th, 2015 at 10:21pm by »  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #89 - May 26th, 2015 at 10:22pm
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I'd just like to point out that I'm actually impressed that Turbine has managed to make GXBs and crap like THROWERS actually legit weapons. For years it was all lol-worthy vendor trash.


All 17 people that still play should be proud of their new builds.
« Last Edit: May 26th, 2015 at 10:23pm by Meat-Head »  

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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #90 - May 26th, 2015 at 10:36pm
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Fuck you guys need to kearn how to use a spreadsheet so bad. Or link them if you do
  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #91 - May 26th, 2015 at 10:37pm
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harharharhar wrote on May 26th, 2015 at 10:36pm:
Fuck you guys need to kearn how to use a spreadsheet so bad. Or link them if you do


EDIT* I had second thoughts about posting a jab about Harhar's spelling here because I realized it would invite way, way, way, way too much scrutiny of my posts, that have more misspellings, grammar no-no's, and shitty punctuation than a leper has sores.
« Last Edit: May 26th, 2015 at 10:43pm by Hag Master »  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #92 - May 26th, 2015 at 10:40pm
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Meat-Head wrote on May 26th, 2015 at 10:22pm:
I'd just like to point out that I'm actually impressed that Turbine has managed to make GXBs and crap like THROWERS actually legit weapons. For years it was all lol-worthy vendor trash.


All 17 people that still play should be proud of their new builds.


The true magic of Turbine is it's ability to still fail while succeeding, for example they fixed the crit multiplier buff when a Mechanic takes the core lv18 ability, but somehow still managed to keep the swashbuckler crit multiplier bug broken.

A multi-spectrum fuckup like that takes talent.
« Last Edit: May 26th, 2015 at 10:40pm by Hag Master »  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #93 - May 26th, 2015 at 10:57pm
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harharharhar wrote on May 26th, 2015 at 10:36pm:
Fuck you guys need to kearn how to use a spreadsheet so bad. Or link them if you do


lol yes
  

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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #94 - May 26th, 2015 at 11:29pm
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harharharhar wrote on May 26th, 2015 at 10:36pm:
Fuck you guys need to kearn how to use a spreadsheet so bad. Or link them if you do

Use spreadsheets, did not feel like linking Cheesy
  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #95 - May 26th, 2015 at 11:38pm
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Why can't you run your own tests?




...as stated b4, I dont have access to duped items, years of hoarded bound to account items, greensteel shit, raid buddies, raid timers, or any of the other goodies that wouldve made it possible.

Dont think I didnt fing try.  I googled, tried, googled, tried...then got fed up and decided to shake the facts out of the vault.

To someone like yourself who knows this game and can run without someone else giving hard numbers (because you have your own), then yeah, the first page shouldve sufficed.

I didnt have the math or experience and it wasnt until about 4 pages in  that I really grasped what was what.

I also realised that in quoting you I pretty much asked you to join in with the crap tossing, so meh. 

It was still the best quotable example of what the real issue is in this game.
« Last Edit: May 26th, 2015 at 11:38pm by Fail »  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #96 - May 27th, 2015 at 12:23am
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #97 - May 27th, 2015 at 12:37am
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Fail wrote on May 26th, 2015 at 11:38pm:
...as stated b4, I dont have access to duped items, years of hoarded bound to account items, greensteel shit, raid buddies, raid timers, or any of the other goodies that wouldve made it possible.

Dont think I didnt fing try.  I googled, tried, googled, tried...then got fed up and decided to shake the facts out of the vault.

To someone like yourself who knows this game and can run without someone else giving hard numbers (because you have your own), then yeah, the first page shouldve sufficed.

I didnt have the math or experience and it wasnt until about 4 pages in  that I really grasped what was what.

I also realised that in quoting you I pretty much asked you to join in with the crap tossing, so meh. 

It was still the best quotable example of what the real issue is in this game.


Forest was too gentle with you cry baby.

I mean, what a load of bullshit, this whole post is drowning in excuses and feeling sorry for yourself. You lazy prick.

You don't need duped items, years of hoarded bound to account items, greensteel shit, raid buddies, raid timers, or any of the other goodies to test GXB v.s. Repeater.

You posted you have a level 19 mechanic, so here is what you do.

-Get the mechanic toon to lev 20
-Buy a base GXB,
-Buy a base Repeater
-Buy bolts
-Get access to a training dummy (not necessary to test speed, but handy to test damage.)
-Turn off fletching in the enhancement tree
-Test one against the other
-Test in several sets for average results
-Go play, adjust enhancements, go play more

What the fuck was so hard about that?

You know what I see? exactly what Forest pointed out, you just keep on using different words to ask the same fucking questions because you didn't like the answers you got the first time you asked.

Lets be honest shall we? your question wasn't "when does the GXB get good" it was actually "teach me to make my toon a EE badass without having to do all the work to get it there".

DIAF
« Last Edit: May 27th, 2015 at 12:39am by Grand »  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #98 - May 27th, 2015 at 12:40am
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Alex DeLarge wrote on May 27th, 2015 at 12:23am:



But didn't you read? he searched and searched! and even googled!!
  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #99 - May 27th, 2015 at 12:43am
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Grand wrote on May 27th, 2015 at 12:37am:
Yarrrrrrgh!!!


Did someone miss their nap-time again?  Wink
  
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