NoGoodDoc wrote on May 24^th, 2015 at 1:16pm:


Unfortunately, making content super hard will not cater to the mass market where the $'s are.

I agree, they need to break the cycle and make EE suitable for the uber players, but the problem of low population and non-EE ready players getting drawn into the EE fervour and causing angst and grief.  They need to address the EE motivations and look at elite streaks and XP for EE.  Move XP grinders away from EE, and it will leave it just for the elite.
My view is that the whole elitism thing used as a barrier to entry is a very poor look for the game.  It splits the population - which is not a good thing at this stage of the game's life cycle.
But it is human nature and those with ePeen issues and insecurities need to feel special somehow.
Only Turdbine could (but likely don't) have data on player demographics.
I don't think many uber players are left with the degradation of the game in recent years, so those EE quests and raids could be hard to fill.

DropBear wrote on May 24^th, 2015 at 6:10pm:


I agree with you 100%. I play on Argo, and luckily there is a good solid group of 50 or so guildies and channel members that we run EE's all the time. I completely understand that is an extremely rare circumstance these days. More often than not when joining easier (<EE's) pugs, it's one person with a bunch of hires (often times 2+ healer types) and they are still struggling and that's throughout all levels.

I can't recall if they said TOEE was balanced around level 30, but I really hope it isn't. Even EE isn't hard and the only "hard" part is the insta-kill if you don't make the mushroom quick enough during the end fight (gimmicky).

I suppose I can hope that at least some of the quests will be hard as hard as I hope. But for the reasons you state, I won't hold my breath because I like living.

I do know that the PC is discussing effective ways of getting rid of BB and/or Elite streaks and compensating. That might go a good way to eliminating newer/more causal players from feeling forced into EE's they aren't ready for. But even the PC is starting to get some major push back from Varg on balancing things to EE or the elite players. He seems highly against it and much more pro-casual. You can kinda tell in the main forums with his regular posts but I hear from my PC friends it's much more evident in the PC forums.

In the end Turbine will go with their "data" (random numbers) and do what they like. Because their "data" is never wrong.

The problem is pandering to first life scrubs who only run elite. There is now an expectation that HE and EE content be doable by anyone.

Mind you, the final fight in TOEE is a bitch if you arent geared or playing a FOTM.

That was a pleasant surprise. But a little annoying given the rest of the 2 dungeons are pretty easy to do.

Would much rather overall difficulty to at least let know know early that you will probably fail.

But a few dungeons have had final fights far beyond the rest of the dungeon.

H and E having the same XP and same streak would be a start. E having a better cghance for drops and better loot for the farmers to focus on.

Leveling can happily run H or E without the risk of scrubs dying and costing you XP.

I would solo and guild run E and pug H. And be very happy.

They could also make H just a bit harder. I cant tell the difference between N and H in most dungeons.

DropBear wrote on May 25^th, 2015 at 3:39am:


I agree, the streak was a poor solution to the problem and I'd love to see it removed.

One thing you didn't mention was favor unlocks, those also drive casuals to try for elite when they shouldn't, and lead to a demand for easier elite.

They could also do much better if they removed the "you must be within 3 levels of the quest base level" so really good players could get their challenge and bragging rights by going into the quests at lower level. The power level penalty locks out that abuse, so why not let people quest as much as they can handle?

Hiding wrote on May 25^th, 2015 at 8:47pm:


Now this is an interesting situation of the chicken and the egg.

In setting base XP, what is their assumption around % playing Elite (if any)?  Ie. Does the levelling curve assume people running Elite or is it premised on Normal?
It's an interesting one.

Regarding EE loot, I don't mind the loot being a bit better.
I don't run a lot of EE content (I don't enjoy it because of the cheesy ways the devs have implemented it and I don't feel any need to prove myself to others), except with guildies, and I'm happy with EH gear.  I believe that those who choose to run it, deserve the rewards.

If you do offer gear and XP boost for EE, then you will be back to unprepared players trying to play it, whinging it is too hard, and Turdbine nerfing the difficulty.
I believe that they do have to take away the behavioural motivators if you want challenge to be scaled and have no impact the majority of the player community.
As I've said before, it's not a simple solution or implementation, so it won't happen. Also, it won't make them any $'s.

Viktor Vaughn wrote on May 26^th, 2015 at 7:21am:


I think you missed my point VV.   
Only a very few run it nowadays.  It's hard and can take hours if you're not familiar with it.
I certainly wouldn't describe it as a mainstream quest.

Epifying it wouldn't remove it from being able to run it on Heroic.
People would likely run it more on Heroic to learn it.