Quote:First let me say, I have no dog in this fight and no interest in being drawn into drama.
I going to do my best to address you questions/points in order:
1- Screen shots are mere snippets of a brief instances showing remarkably small combat history, easily cherry-picked or even manipulated. While useful in trying score points in an argument, they are of little utility when it comes to find bench-mark value. We test to find out what is really going on within a state, not to find data to support a desired conclusion, so we had no use for screen shots.
2- You believed lethality was providing a X3 multiplier, Hags believed that Expert builder was providing a X3 multiplier, you were both wrong. Neither ability is providing any increase in crit multipliers.
3- I'm reporting results of a collaborative testing session, not just saying things. Before the testing I didn't care one way or another whether the multiplier buffs were working, afterwards I felt much the same. We wanted to know, so we tested it all and found out. (if both had been working and stacked? that would have got my attention tho).
4- We have tested with base vendor, base +1, and decond weapons. The decond weapon is the best base test-bed, no variables after deconstruction and readily available.
5- Screenshots... please see first point.
6- Mobs are unsuitable for testing, it is impossible to maintain consistent testing variables while using a dynamic target who's properties can vary from one second to another for reasons outside of the tester's control or knowledge.
7- Screenshots.. please see first point.
8- It is not science. It is the application of the scientific method in testing a simulation and it's variables. When we do testing we make a commitment and concerted effort to maintain the same values and conditions throughout each testing series set, for each state tested. It takes quite a lot of effort and patience. We do not pursue a desired outcome (as a group) and no test results are accepted as final unless they can be duplicated by each member. None of this is done in the pursuit of convincing each other of an outcome, it is done to find out the factually supported, discernible conclusion.
9- Screenshots.. please see first point.
10- The fresh/unbroken dummy is the best test bed available to us within the Game for this type of testing and rate of fire testing, nothing else comes close. While the dummy's fortification makes the overall process longer, it rewards us with consistent results. Additional that very rarity of a confirmed critical caused by the fortification makes it's occurrence much more obvious and much easier to track outside of normal hits with the greatest reliability.
11- Again, tests on Mobs only provide useless data. The conditions of each strike are very unique, so they are not consistent or easily reproduced the hundreds of times an attack must be made in each state to reach a reliable benchmark average.
12- Weapons.. addressed in point #4
13- Screenshots.. see point #1
14- Nothing magical. The confirmed critical damage value of the dagger is result of all the consistent values of a lev 27 rogue (lev, ED, ranged pwr, etc..) being processed and applied to the crit. by the game engine in controlled test conditions . The final resulted value is produced with a consistent proportional difference to successful non-critical hit values. At these testbed (character)levels, testing with a weapon that has a higher inherent critical multiplier like a returning throwing axe, produces an increase of even larger proportional value than a strict proportional increases of X2 to X3 could be reasonably expected to produce. Put simply, at level 27 rogue in all three states a weapon X2 multiplier produces a finally critical damage value of just under X3 (2.9), while at level 27 rogue in all three states a weapon X3 multiplier produces a critical damage value greater than X4 (4.3). As was discernible from our test and in the simple data I provided above, at end game, these damage values are increasingly impacted by the character outside of bought enhancements. Final crit damage values grow at an exponential rate larger in relation to a weapon's real crit multiplier value. But neither lethality or Expert builder have any impact, no matter the state.
15- No, of course Harper Int to damage isn't bugged in that way. The reason we used Int to damage is much simpler, the ability scores of Dex, Str, Int, on the testbed were of different values, so we used 12 points in the Harper tree to purchase Strategic Combat II to use Intelligence (the highest stat on the testbed) as a consistent stat modifier for weapon damage. This was done so that no matter which trees additional points were or were not spent in, the damage modifier would remain consistently based on intelligence. I am surprised this was not obvious.
*edited for grammar/sp again...
That's all fine. And honestly, I'm not interested in drama or fighting either. But I am interested in how you tested, and why you think your numbers represent what you think they represent, especially in light of my non-matching results.
But you didn't answer my question: why is your critical damage x3 and not x2? ED Crit damage additions? Seeker? Ranged Power shouldn't be exponential.
You see, I actually don't have a dog in the fight either except that I'm tired of people like Hag who don't trest anything trying to talk about things like they're an authority. I have NO PROBLEM with being wrong. I have a problem with not knowing the in game mechanics of certain abilities, in my quest to make builds. So honestly, the only thing I give any fucks about is how these things are or are not working.
Your tests are certainly more exhaustive than mine, and at this point I'm assuming you are correct. It certainly passes the "sniff" test whereby Turbine has never had critical multipliers working for Throwers. However, my own fast and dirty testing did not indicate that. You have not stated what your Int bonus was, what the damage of your throwing weapons were (though I assume Base) or what your damage bonus was, which I did show in Screenshots. Screenshots aren't just for proof, they provide a consistent historical account of how I tested. Right now, I don't understand why your minimally equipped 27 Rogue does triple damage on a crit. You haven't adequately explained it. I'm assuming you weren't nakjed and wearing a seeker item, and/or some other addition of on crit damage.
As you can see in my screenshots, I was naked doing my tests to eliminate that confusion.
I am going to do more tests myself when I get home, and I assume that you are right, despite your strange numbers that don't really tie out (x3 Physical damage on a critical). But frankly, without explaining where your excess damage on crit is coming from, and your refusal to list possible sources or screenshot your gear and EDs, or just explain to me if I'm just a fucking idiot, makes me a little frustrated.
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Crit multipliers thrown weapons (Read 13413 times)
