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Some Guy Here On The Boards
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Experience Chart for Epics - Work in Progress
Jul 10th, 2015 at 12:39am
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*Update: 07/17/15

Leveling Path (50% pot, 5% shrine, 10/25% tome, 5% voice)

SPIES IN THE HOUSE - 20-25 for bravery bonus
EE Spies (First time elite, BB, BB streak, daily, vandal, onslaught, ingenious, shrine, voice, 50%, optionals, tome, no death, no reentry): ~271k exp
EH Spies (First time hard, vandal, onslaught, ingenious, shrine, voice, potion, tome, optionals, no death, no reentry): ~174k
EN Spies (First time normal, vandal, onslaught, ingenious, shrine, voice, potion, tome, optionals, no death, no reentry): ~159k
First ~30 minutes, get ~604 exp. Not hard to do with a group of levels 20-25 to get that EE BB.

THE JUNGLE OF KHYBER (VON3) - 20-26 for bravery bonus
EE VoN3 (First time elite, BB, BB streak, daily, ransack, conquest, ingenious, shrine, voice, 50%, optionals, no deaths, no reentry): ~179k
EH VoN3 (First time hard, ransack, conquest, ingenious, shrine, voice, 50%, optionals, no deaths, no reentry): ~118k
EN VoN3 (First time nomral, ransack, conquest, ingenious, shrine, voice, 50%, optionals, no deaths, no reentry): ~109k
Takes an hour or so for all three runs, netting less than 406k xp. Run with a party of level 20-26 to obtain bravery bonus. Note, the exp is absolute max, given all the optionals spawning. This will not be the case. Exp will be less based on number of optionals spawning, trap bonus, etc.

THE CHAMBER OF RAIYUM (WIZ KING) - 20-26 for bravery bonus
EE WizKing
EH WizKing
EN WizKing

AN OFFERING OF BLOOD (OOB) - 20-25 for bravery bonus
EE OOB (First time elite, bb, bb streak, daily, shrine, voice, 50%, no death, no reentry): ~120k
EH OOB (First time hard, shrine, voice, 50%, no death, no reentry): ~63k
EN OOB (First time normal, shrine, voice, 50%, no death, no reentry): ~55k
OOB is a straght forward, easy quest. Just run to the end, skipping most of the optional content, and you can do this quest in 4-15 minutes a run, depending on difficulty setting. All 3 runs should take roughly 30 minutes total or less for 238k exp.













Tip for people that are wondering how to see the quest exp in game. At the end of the adventure, the little pop saying how much exp you earn is the actual exp you earned for most things (exp potion, shrine, voice, ransack, conquest, etc). It does NOT include optionals. For the optionals, you have to open the quest xp log and see how much those are individually. An example is here:



In this example, you earned 121,273 + 5,870 +
5,870 + 5,870 + 5,870 + 11,740. That is your total exp gain and it is accurate (156,493 experience). There is no hidden exp or anything of that sort. Also, worthy of note, everything but optionals DO affect the large total (121,273) whereas optionals are completely separate. What does this mean? Well, let's take Wiz King (The Chamber of Raiyum) as an example, since it is a well known quest. You can finish the quest by grabbing the scroll after killing Raiyum, without doing the other 2 towers. Then, even though the quest is "complete" you can still kill the other 2 dijiins and hafez/hami and still get all that optional experience. The stuff you can NOT earn after completing the quest are things like Ransack and Conquest.

--------------------------------------------------------

Example of how experience bonuses are applied, taken from ddowiki:
Misery’s Peak Elite XP = 1660
Ransack (15% of 1660) = 249
Onslaught (15% of 1660) = 249
Tome of Learning (50% of 1660) = 830
1st Elite Completion (80% of 1660) = 1328
Never played, played on elite, Bravery Bonus (20% of 1660) = 332
Elite Streak (50% of 1660) = 830
Daily playthrough bonus (20% of 1660) = 332
Flawless Victory Bonus (10% of 1660) = 166
Persistence Bonus (10% of 1660) = 166
Subtotal: 6142
Ship buff (5% of 6142) = 307
30% pot (30% of 6142) = 1842
VIP bonus (15% of 6142) = 921
Total: 9212 (by Zav on the DDO Forums)

Experience Bonuses:
First Time
First time on normal: 25%
First time on hard: 40%
First time on elite: 80%

Daily
First time playing the quest that day: 20%

Bravery Bonus
Normal: null
Hard: 10%
Elite: 20%

Bravery Bonus Streak
Normal: null
Hard: 25%
Elite: 50%

Flawless (no deaths)
10%

Persistence (no reentry)
10%

Killing Bonus
Aggression: 10%
Onslaught: 15%
Conquest: 25%
Discreet: 5%
Devious:  7%
Insidious: 10%

Trap Bonus
Tamper: 10%
Neutralization: 20%
Ingenious Debilitation: 30%

Secret Doors Bonus
Observance: 8%
Perception: 10%
Vigilant Sight: 15%

Breakables Bonus
Mischief: 8%
Vandal: 10%
Ransack: 15%
« Last Edit: Jul 17th, 2015 at 12:56pm by Some Guy Here On The Boards »  
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Re: Experience Chart for Epics - Work in Progress
Reply #1 - Jul 10th, 2015 at 12:47am
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seems like getting traps in some quests where there aren't a lot might be worth it?
  
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Re: Experience Chart for Epics - Work in Progress
Reply #2 - Jul 10th, 2015 at 1:00am
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Definitely. Like in spies in the house. It's worth quite  a bit of exp if you can manage to get traps and break a few breakables... I just don't know how much data I want to represent in these tables yet.
  
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Re: Experience Chart for Epics - Work in Progress
Reply #3 - Jul 10th, 2015 at 1:03am
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Some Guy Here On The Boards wrote on Jul 10th, 2015 at 12:39am:
...you can see that once you are done with bravery bonus and first time runs, it is no longer worth it to run on anything but EN. In the time you can do an EE, for that 3,091 exp, you could probably have run most of another normal. The difficulty difference between normal and elite is quite large.


This is all we really need to know, unless you're going to do detailed analyses of average completion time and whether optionals, traps, breakables, and kills are worth the extra time.
  

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Re: Experience Chart for Epics - Work in Progress
Reply #4 - Jul 10th, 2015 at 1:49am
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Lol don't tempt me... Quit my job on the 4th, so just sitting around all day, playing ddo and other games. Getting restless, hence spending tonight working on this. There definitely are some quests that traps/breakables/killing is worthwhile, and some that are not... breakables in spies vs breakables in kobold new ringleader, for example. If I get bored enough... I might actually put some of that info down, though most is common knowledge... Then again, people are still asking how to level, and these days, it's very easy.
  
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Re: Experience Chart for Epics - Work in Progress
Reply #5 - Jul 10th, 2015 at 3:36am
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What I do ( on iconic and trapping where applicable ):
I try to "exploit" streak and 1st time bonus - usually 2 epic lives per iconic life.
Is okay with a partner and on stronger builds.
Von 1 - 4, Fens, Spies, Sands except DQ, Sentinels, Carnival and LoD chains EE streak 1st stime is ~ 3 mill xp on premium account and 50 % pot.
5.6 mill with Citw flags, High Road, Belly and DDTW, Druid's and Beyond the Rift.
Whelon and Stormhorns will cap me ( sometimes shard WGU and Mirror to not waste fat xp ). ETR, eat sagas, GH, 3bc, Necro, Estar challenges ( that's ~ 1 mill ) and hard to cap.
Can do another epic life solely on EN. I'd almost always prep main EE sagas ( maybe not 3bc and GH ).

My "daily" EN run is Spies, Tobias, Mirror ( sometimes with Friends ), Tracker, WGU.
But that's of course only if you have sagas prepared and no more 1st time / streak bonuses. Can find few more quests with 13k+ / min.
« Last Edit: Jul 10th, 2015 at 3:52am by Wipe »  
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Re: Experience Chart for Epics - Work in Progress
Reply #6 - Jul 13th, 2015 at 6:46pm
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Just an update. Been stuck on spies atm. Going over and over on the exp, and it just is not adding up correctly.

Stepped in to Epic Normal Spies with 4,333,392 experience. Stepped out with 4,439,175 experience.  That gives me 105,783 as a gain.


EN Base: 36,975
Did not have first time bonus, BB, BB streak going.
BB: 0
BB Streak: 0
First time: 0
Daily: 0
Tome: 10% (3,698)
No deaths: 10% (3,698)
No re-entry: 10% (3,698)
Kill bonus: 15% (5,546)

Subtotal: 53,615 exp

Now we add in voice, shrine, and potion.
Voice: 5% (2,681)
Shrine: 5% (2,681)
Potion: 50% (26,807)

Total: 85,782

Now, the part that I have to added in is the optional exp from freeing the 4 captives. Each is +10% exp, and a bonus of 20% for all 4. So, 60% total. No matter how I figure it, I can't seem to get the right numbers.

The closest I can get is this. The optional for these is not calculated at all in the above. So.... base+first time+daily+bb+streak+persistence+no re-entry+tome+kill+breakables+traps = subtotal

Subtotal+voice+shrine+pot = total

Total + (base*0.6) = New total

Doing it that way, I get:

107,967 exp

whereas my actual in game exp gain was 105,783.  Maybe the difference lies in my use of decimals or such. It's been bugging me that it's not 100% accurate, so I haven't made any additional headway into my charts.
  
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Re: Experience Chart for Epics - Work in Progress
Reply #7 - Jul 13th, 2015 at 11:57pm
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Some Guy Here On The Boards wrote on Jul 13th, 2015 at 6:46pm:
Total + (base*0.6) = New total


I notice you are rounding up (sometimes)...I suspect the game is always rounding down, even at .9

Optional xp is calculated individually, rounding down each time...so it should be total + (4(base*0.1)+base*0.2) = New total

This obviously doesn't make up the difference, but the voice, shrine, potion would also each be calculated separately per optional and get rounded down.

Still either something is not working as advertised, or there are more calculations (rounding down) than we know about. Is it possible that the guild xp buff isn't affecting the optionals at all?
  

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Re: Experience Chart for Epics - Work in Progress
Reply #8 - Jul 14th, 2015 at 12:05am
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It would be helpful to isolate variables.

Future testing should note starting xp, specific stated xp gain for each optional, specific stated xp gain at completion, and ending xp.
  

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Re: Experience Chart for Epics - Work in Progress
Reply #9 - Jul 14th, 2015 at 9:10am
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« Last Edit: Jul 17th, 2015 at 11:41am by Some Guy Here On The Boards »  
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Re: Experience Chart for Epics - Work in Progress
Reply #10 - Jul 14th, 2015 at 11:11am
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« Last Edit: Jul 17th, 2015 at 11:41am by Some Guy Here On The Boards »  
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Re: Experience Chart for Epics - Work in Progress
Reply #11 - Jul 14th, 2015 at 1:37pm
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Knowing VLOOKUP makes you the equivalent of a magical wizard of tech in most organisations. It's like using a lighter in front of primitive man.

Anyway, interesting stuff, thanks. Always appreciate people willing to put time in to projects like this.

I'd like you not to pick at the "Why does Epic give this bit extra?" scab too much, please. Wink
  
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Re: Experience Chart for Epics - Work in Progress
Reply #12 - Jul 14th, 2015 at 11:57pm
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kum-gulp wrote on Jul 14th, 2015 at 1:37pm:
Knowing VLOOKUP makes you the equivalent of a magical wizard of tech in most organisations. It's like using a lighter in front of primitive man.

Anyway, interesting stuff, thanks. Always appreciate people willing to put time in to projects like this.

I'd like you not to pick at the "Why does Epic give this bit extra?" scab too much, please. Wink


This is so true
  
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Re: Experience Chart for Epics - Work in Progress
Reply #13 - Jul 15th, 2015 at 12:04am
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Some Guy Here On The Boards wrote on Jul 14th, 2015 at 11:11am:
Note though, that unlike with coding, I can't see to force some data validation, at least not yet. Still learning excel. For example, you can select that you are doing en, with ee bb, with eh bb streak... It's up to the user atm to select correctly.


If you're using Excel 2010/2013, then under the Data Menu is an option for Data Validation.  A number of options available to you there.
The most common is to restrict inputs to a predefined list so as not to break your VLookups.

I haven't looked at your worksheet sorry, but you have two possible options.
Nested IFs (programming equivalent would likely be If/Then/Or statements) or the CHOOSE function.

Egs.  =IF(A1="EN",B1,IF(A1="EH",C1,IF(A1="EE",D1)))
Where B1 = EN Bravery
C1 = EH Bravery
D1 = EE Bravery

Nested IF's can get messy, so if you have a table of values, the CHOOSE function can be quite handy.
Quest Difficulty is set up as a list in a column (EN/EH/EE).   Must be vertical column.
Place a List or Combo Box from the Developer Menu (sounds like you are already doing this).
Link the "inputs" field to the Quest Difficult column of values.
Once selected this will generate a number from 1-3.
Cell link the output to somewhere (I normally put it under the box so it is hidden, otherwise out it in a cell and make it white text on white background and then lock the cell it so it won't be deleted accidentally.  The lock only takes effect if you protect the workbook).
Use the CHOOSE function to then choose a value based on that input.

Using the above example, it would be

CHOOSE(A1,B1,C1,D1)
Where A1 is the list combo box output (referred to as the "Cell link") - this value changes as the selected item changes.
B1/C1/D1 are as above - the cells containing the bonus value/calc.

Hope that helps.

  
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Re: Experience Chart for Epics - Work in Progress
Reply #14 - Jul 15th, 2015 at 6:43am
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I did not know that I could do that. Thanks Drop Smiley Just beginning to learn excel. Currently using Drive.google (for sharing purposes), but it seems to be excel. Will see if I can go back and clean up some stuff using that.
  
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Re: Experience Chart for Epics - Work in Progress
Reply #15 - Jul 15th, 2015 at 6:44am
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Re: Experience Chart for Epics - Work in Progress
Reply #16 - Jul 15th, 2015 at 8:10am
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Some Guy Here On The Boards wrote on Jul 15th, 2015 at 6:43am:
I did not know that I could do that. Thanks Drop Smiley Just beginning to learn excel. Currently using Drive.google (for sharing purposes), but it seems to be excel. Will see if I can go back and clean up some stuff using that.



I haven't used Google Spreadsheet since it was released, but it did not have the same the advanced functionality as Excel.
Perfectly good for keeping tally of your stamp collection, or producing basic charts, but not much of the advanced Excel stuff unless it has changed.  So I can't help you much about finding functions in Google sorry.

Excel is a very good tool - take a course in it.
Learn the good fundamentals early on so they become ingrained in how you use it.  Spreadsheet discipline and structure is important to having reliable tools.

Alas, the more MS play with Excel, the more they frack it up.
Sure they add new features, but some of the advanced core stuff gets broken along the way..... hey, that sounds familiar......    Roll Eyes

We encounter all sorts of weird errors in Excel 2010/13 that never used to occur in 2007.  Very frustrating.
  
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Re: Experience Chart for Epics - Work in Progress
Reply #17 - Jul 15th, 2015 at 8:45am
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Re: Experience Chart for Epics - Work in Progress
Reply #18 - Jul 15th, 2015 at 11:32am
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Re: Experience Chart for Epics - Work in Progress
Reply #19 - Jul 15th, 2015 at 2:02pm
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Some Guy Here On The Boards wrote on Jul 15th, 2015 at 6:44am:
Not sure what you mean by this.

There is a history of features unintended that benefit the player being fixed once exposed. If you work out what the extra is, it may prompt action because the bothering to work it out is in my opinion less likely to be resourced than any resultant fix.
  
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Re: Experience Chart for Epics - Work in Progress
Reply #20 - Jul 15th, 2015 at 3:18pm
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Re: Experience Chart for Epics - Work in Progress
Reply #21 - Aug 4th, 2015 at 5:42pm
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kum-gulp wrote on Jul 14th, 2015 at 1:37pm:
Knowing VLOOKUP makes you the equivalent of a magical wizard of tech in most organisations. It's like using a lighter in front of primitive man.

For an an encore, you can show them INDEX + MATCH functions which give even more flexibility than VLOOKUP in regards on what data and fields you can return.
  
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Re: Experience Chart for Epics - Work in Progress
Reply #22 - Aug 12th, 2015 at 12:57pm
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That's more like using a flamethrower; you'll scare them off. Smiley
  
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