Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 Send TopicPrint
Normal Topic Shiradi Warlock (Read 7455 times)
vageta31
Korthos Resident
*
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 46
Joined: Aug 12th, 2015
Shiradi Warlock
Aug 18th, 2015 at 11:45pm
Print Post  
Have a few questions regarding how people are building Shiradi warlocks. I've seen 2 basic ways to go about this, though obviously there are different methods to each of them. One is a pew-pew style Warlock that relies on chain and burst/blast to proc their shiradi. Since you're constantly shooting eldritch blasts you probably don't really need other specific spells to cast and can thus take the full 20 warlock levels and gain all of the nice benefits(more pact damage and the Core 6 ES boosts). This would be the simplest way.

The other method is similar in mechanics to the FvS Shiradi. In this build you would run 12 warlock with a 3 second Aura along with AoE burst/blast, while spamming Wizard MM and CM in between the cleave timers. I'm assuming 6-7 wizard to get as many missiles and possible, leaving 1-2 levels for whatever you want. Barb for speed, fighter for feat/profs or maybe 2 FvS for a couple crit % and Scourge/Animus/Just Rewards. I'm aware that Scourge and Just rewards don't proc on the actual pew-pew blasts, however I've heard that they might possibly work on the Aura and/or AoE bursts. Also, even if they don't work, could it be worth it to take 3/3 animus to get the guaranteed stacks since you're going to be standing amongst a ton of enemies with this version of the build?

So my question(s) are basically assuming you built them correctly, which would see more damage output? From my experience in just pure 20 warlock using both Aura and pew-pew style, I tend to see more damage from the Aura builds as long as you mix it up in close range, not to mention you are far more resilient. The pew-pew is nice at low levels, but it tends to have fuzzy targeting, doesn't always hit when close range, etc.. Pure 20 pew-pew Warlock would have more base EB damage due to getting all the extra die, whereas the Aura version probably will get more proc's due to MM and CM while getting constant Aura ticks.

Also, from what I gather the Shiradi proc's off of each damage type. Standard damage for the aura and blast are 2 types. I usually just turn on utterdark and never turn it off, however if the proc`ing on different damage types actually works it would seem advantageous to not use utterdark to get pact damage, force damage AND light damage from the ES tree. Meaning each tick/burst/spirit blast has 3 chances to proc shiradi each. I haven't reached the Shiradi sphere yet to test this myself so I have to go on anecdotal evidence from message boards.

Either way, Shiradi sounds like a lot of fun I'm just wondering for my 3rd TR which build I should aim for since it's the one I plan on farming EDs with.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SayWhatAgain
Dragon Raider
***
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 236
Joined: Jul 30th, 2014
Re: Shiradi Warlock
Reply #1 - Aug 19th, 2015 at 4:20am
Print Post  
The way I see it the options and their gist are:
1) pure pew pew lock
Most sp efficient, easiest to play and great survivability due to free blasts and nice high level cores.
2) lock/wiz/fvs burst style
Higher damage output (bursts enjoy sp scaling, CM is king for aoe shiradi damage and much more crit chance from enhancements).
3) Shiradi specced caster (the gold shiradi build perhaps)
Highest dps output (the build is designed in every aspect to increase sp, spell crit chance, number of shiradi procs per second both single target and AoE), good survivability, no blasts just spell casting.

Warlocks are fun and strong but not at the top of the food chain.
Also keep in mind that warlocks have a nice synergy for both dps and spell dc in EA ED which brings option 4

4) Pure light/dc specced burst warlock in EA
Good none brain dead dps (can do interesting things between bursts) and best survivability.

Personally I'd try option 2 for fun and a good level of power.




  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
vageta31
Korthos Resident
*
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 46
Joined: Aug 12th, 2015
Re: Shiradi Warlock
Reply #2 - Aug 19th, 2015 at 4:30pm
Print Post  
I was already considering the 2nd option, I'm just not sure how to go about doing it just yet. I'm not very experienced in multiclassing in DDO yet, though I'm very experienced in 3.5 PnP so I understand most of the reasoning. I saw a post in the thread "Warlock Synergy" by Teth which mentioned a Warlock base instead of FvS but he didn't go into any real details.

My guess as to the reason FvS is used as a base and taken till 12 is probably multi-faceted. The access to crit chance, scourge and just reward are obvious enough, but probably to also gain access to Archon(more shiradi procs), Heal, Blade Barrier as well as a general solid base of mana, hps and saves vs an arcane class. The wizard 7 is taken to get 4th level spells, MM and CM SLA's, pale master shrouds if one decides to use that method of healing, and very importantly the ability to get 3 caster levels to max out MM and get more CM missiles via the FvS tier 4 enhancement. The final level is whatever you want it to be.

Teth mentioned on a warlock base you'd only take 6 levels of Wiz leaving you 2 levels of something else, though I'm not sure why it wouldn't be advantageous to take the 7th level of wis, if only for the 4th level spells. I haven't looked yet, but perhaps the bonus missiles are based on even CL so having the extra level wouldn't matter?

At any rate, with the Warlock version you're losing a lot of what the FvS brings and replacing it with constant mana-less damage at the cost of losing Heal and extra missiles. I guess you could take the vampire shroud and get the bonus to CHA and ability to heal with negative energy. Could probably stack up PRR/MRR with ES from warlock and some of the Pale Master stuff(bone armor I think it's called). With high con and all the extra defense, you'd probably be fairly resilient.

So how to build it exactly? 12 Lock/6 wiz/2 xx? Or take 7 wiz for 4th level spells and pick up a level of a class where you can get some low hanging fruit. Monk stances are out due to medium armor, barb gets you runspeed, fighter a feat and a stance(I think), etc...

Right now the best I can come up with is 12 lock/6 wiz/2 pally for some extra saves and LoH at the cost of having to be fey. Or 12 lock/6wiz/2 fvs to pick up 4% crit chance and scourge/animus(I've heard it procs on aura and obviously missile spam). Animus seem decent enough if you an Aura build since you will be getting hit a lot. Only other option I can conceive is 12 lock/7 wiz/1 fvs to at least get one point of smiting and the scourge/animus.

Am I on the right track or perhaps something doesn't work the way I'm imagining? I'm still not sure if Shiradi procs off of different damage types to know if not using utterdark blast is beneficial to keep damage types split, or if perhaps penetrating blast for the physical damage may be an option for more crit chance from smiting.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SayWhatAgain
Dragon Raider
***
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 236
Joined: Jul 30th, 2014
Re: Shiradi Warlock
Reply #3 - Aug 20th, 2015 at 7:49am
Print Post  
The last two levels you mentioned and the benefits of each that you listed are to the point (though you should note that defensive stance requirs 3 levels of Pali/fighter).

It boils down to dps (extra wiz for higher cl or fvs for sp and crit chance)/ defense (Pali saves)/ speed (barb)/ utility and? Dps 8 wizard.
CM gains more missiles for each odd level (if you have a source of bonus odd caster levels like 3 piece abishai set, you'l want an even wizard level).

Regarding utter dark, just choose the element that has more spell power/ crit chance (force or light) your shiradi procs use their respective sp and crit chance regardless of the spell they originate from. Pretty sure each blast (regardless of it's components) counts as one spell for shiradi procs sake.


  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
palmer01
VoD Slasher
*****
Offline


Paladin Slayer

Posts: 1737
Location: Los Angeles
Joined: Apr 14th, 2015
Gender: Male
Re: Shiradi Warlock
Reply #4 - Aug 20th, 2015 at 12:36pm
Print Post  
im running a warforged 14/5/1 loc/wiz/bard foregoing melee and im having a lot of fun with him.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
vageta31
Korthos Resident
*
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 46
Joined: Aug 12th, 2015
Re: Shiradi Warlock
Reply #5 - Aug 20th, 2015 at 2:57pm
Print Post  
SayWhatAgain wrote on Aug 20th, 2015 at 7:49am:
The last two levels you mentioned and the benefits of each that you listed are to the point (though you should note that defensive stance requirs 3 levels of Pali/fighter).

It boils down to dps (extra wiz for higher cl or fvs for sp and crit chance)/ defense (Pali saves)/ speed (barb)/ utility and? Dps 8 wizard.
CM gains more missiles for each odd level (if you have a source of bonus odd caster levels like 3 piece abishai set, you'l want an even wizard level).

Regarding utter dark, just choose the element that has more spell power/ crit chance (force or light) your shiradi procs use their respective sp and crit chance regardless of the spell they originate from. Pretty sure each blast (regardless of it's components) counts as one spell for shiradi procs sake.




Yeah, I knew about the level 3 for stances I misspoke. I was referring to something I keep seeing mentioned, I believe it was haste boost. I've never played a fighter yet, but I was also unaware that Barbs get a speed boost with a cooldown after playing one for a few days.

It seems like I do understand the basic gist of the wiz/fvs though I'm sure I'm missing some of the finer points. The abishai set as well as the FvS tier 4 caster level increase enhancement also for 3. I can see why higher FvS is wanted over wiz due to the the mana alone. I can't believe a wizard gets roughly the same mana as a warlock does at level 20 and they aren't even supposed to be true casters.

I also found a bit more information about a shiradi warlock by viewing some threads on this board(that were strangely about something else). One was called a Ruin Master I believe, who used a base of 12 lock.... but then ONLY took ES core 1 to get the basic aura, then up to core 4 of TS for the crit damage. This is... not what I expected of a warlock core to be honest. It seems a steep investment in a class for taking so very little of their enhancements. You've got a 4 sec aura that will do mediocre damage(I'm sure its mostly used or proc'ing some other skill) and some extra crit damage. I'm not exactly sure how I would build my shiradi lock, but I will actively try to incorporate more than just these 2 things.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Teth
Dragon Raider
***
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 250
Joined: Jan 31st, 2014
Re: Shiradi Warlock
Reply #6 - Aug 20th, 2015 at 9:10pm
Print Post  
vageta31 wrote on Aug 20th, 2015 at 2:57pm:
Yeah, I knew about the level 3 for stances I misspoke. I was referring to something I keep seeing mentioned, I believe it was haste boost. I've never played a fighter yet, but I was also unaware that Barbs get a speed boost with a cooldown after playing one for a few days.

It seems like I do understand the basic gist of the wiz/fvs though I'm sure I'm missing some of the finer points. The abishai set as well as the FvS tier 4 caster level increase enhancement also for 3. I can see why higher FvS is wanted over wiz due to the the mana alone. I can't believe a wizard gets roughly the same mana as a warlock does at level 20 and they aren't even supposed to be true casters.

I also found a bit more information about a shiradi warlock by viewing some threads on this board(that were strangely about something else). One was called a Ruin Master I believe, who used a base of 12 lock.... but then ONLY took ES core 1 to get the basic aura, then up to core 4 of TS for the crit damage. This is... not what I expected of a warlock core to be honest. It seems a steep investment in a class for taking so very little of their enhancements. You've got a 4 sec aura that will do mediocre damage(I'm sure its mostly used or proc'ing some other skill) and some extra crit damage. I'm not exactly sure how I would build my shiradi lock, but I will actively try to incorporate more than just these 2 things.



Thats because 30% crit damage surpasses anything a 12 fvs can offer in terms of dps. Sure the 12 fvs is nice for archon, but warlock gets you aura which is better and does everything archon does. You dont play a shiradi warlock for the aura and eldritch blast, you play it to spam the missles, hellball, ruin, energy burst, and then other 2dary dmg sources.

The 6 wizard is for the said missles and the super bigged crit chances and the arcane supremacy (if timed and zerged right you can top any speed run). As a side a benefit of this build is the archon from fvs would always proc supremacy when u didnt need it, now with warlock you control it.

As for the last 2 levels, like I said its all preference. 2 fvs gives you way more sp management, 2 barb gives you ultimate zerging, or you can go 7-8 wiz for lvl 4 spells.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send TopicPrint