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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) Sev posts about Reincarnation XP (Read 18472 times)
Asheras
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Sev posts about Reincarnation XP
Nov 2nd, 2015 at 4:37pm
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Sev on Reincarnation:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/467152-Level-30-and-your-Epic-TRs/page...

Quote:
There's definitely a lot of historical stuff going on here.


With Iconics around U18/U19, they couldn't reincarnate (especially True Reincarnate into a new race). They meant they were just left out of the loop. We fixed that with Update 20, adding Iconic True Reincarnation. This was something we didn't want to wait on, while also not wanting Iconics to reincarnate at level 20. Getting every class past life by only playing 15-20 is not a design that seemed good for DDO - just consider current discussions of "fair" vs. new and old players.
Since we were doing a fairly big overhaul to Reincarnation generally (including Lesser and Heroic, new UI, Kruz's retirement, etc.), it made sense for us to get Epic Reincarnation in at the same time. This saved us a lot of time and probably greatly reduced bugs. (Reincarnation is a bug-prone system, and the bugs are often serious business!)
In a lot of ways, it could have made sense to wait for level 30 for Epic Reincarnation. We decided it was OK to let players get a shorter/discounted loop for a while until we got to level 30. This was a strategic decision at the time of Update 20.
Introducing Epic Reincarnation sooner rather than later also meant that playing in epic levels could be more rewarding, including for players who liked playing through the reincarnation loop. Some felt that Epic was not "for them", since that progress was wasted and they might as well just stay in Heroic.
Level 30 got pushed later than the original plan, so it's been longer since U20 & Reincarnation revamp than expect (aka: not a "short period with a Reincarnation discount", but two years instead). Some of that was because we wanted to make sure we got additional higher level content out ahead raising the cap, instead of having a sparse end game. Now there's things like Temple of Elemental Evil, epic Necropolis, and this year's quests filling in levels 29 and 30 (plus some older raids), before we raise the cap. (We feel we didn't do this as well as we could have when we raised the cap to level 28, for instance. Lesson learned!)


With infinite time and resources we might have done things differently. The two year gap between Epic Reincarnation and Level 30 wasn't a goal, but at the same time DDO is probably better than if Epic Reincarnation had been delayed for another two years.

(As far as not doing an "Actual Reincarnation", we know some players had done so much Heroic Reincarnation already they were "done" with Heroics. We didn't want to punish them by forcing them back to level 1 even though they had all Heroic past lives already. Even for completely new players, it means you can pick and choose and spend time differently, rather than being forced to do the entire 1-Cap at once each time without as much variance. Designing reincarnation as two separate loops, for Epic and Heroic: No regrets.)


Grinding out more than 7 million (ish) epic xp is not going to be fun.  Given that they are in the business of making a product that is fun to play, that's a problem they need to address.  No matter how much spin they put on the whys and wherefores of it.
  
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Re: Sev posts about Reincarnation XP
Reply #1 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 4:40pm
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you're stuck on the hamster wheel (pun intended), get help.
  
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Re: Sev posts about Reincarnation XP
Reply #2 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 4:55pm
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It makes for interesting fiction or justification after the fact.
If they had not introduced ETR, the game would be dead.
People would race to 28 and have nothing to do - no sense of progress.
We could all play TOEE for 999th time trying to finish that crafted not-so-uber weapon.

ETR bought them time to design end game.

I find it amusing that Sev thinks they have enough end game content now.
How many level 30 raids do they have?  How many quests do they have 28-30 to provide XP for the next of ETR's?

Nothing like talking with your head up your posterior.
  
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Re: Sev posts about Reincarnation XP
Reply #3 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 4:59pm
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oh hi, resident expert on hamster cocks; you want to talk about heads up asses now?  interesting choice of subjects to pontificate on.
  
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Re: Sev posts about Reincarnation XP
Reply #4 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 5:00pm
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DropBear wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 4:55pm:
It makes for interesting fiction or justification after the fact.
If they had not introduced ETR, the game would be dead.
People would race to 28 and have nothing to do - no sense of progress.
We could all play TOEE for 999th time trying to finish that crafted not-so-uber weapon.

ETR bought them time to design end game.

I find it amusing that Sev thinks they have enough end game content now.
How many level 30 raids do they have?  How many quests do they have 28-30 to provide XP for the next of ETR's?

Nothing like talking with your head up your posterior.





Well if you are planning on talking shit...

Just saying.
« Last Edit: Nov 2nd, 2015 at 5:00pm by »  
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Re: Sev posts about Reincarnation XP
Reply #5 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 5:01pm
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DropBear wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 4:55pm:
It makes for interesting fiction or justification after the fact.
If they had not introduced ETR, the game would be dead.
People would race to 28 and have nothing to do - no sense of progress.
We could all play TOEE for 999th time trying to finish that crafted not-so-uber weapon.

ETR bought them time to design end game.

I find it amusing that Sev thinks they have enough end game content now.
How many level 30 raids do they have?  How many quests do they have 28-30 to provide XP for the next of ETR's?

Nothing like talking with your head up your posterior.

Level cap raises always come with a lack of content in the new level range.  Except, possibly, for the raise to 24 when they had all the old epics and the MoTU content to get to 24.
  
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Re: Sev posts about Reincarnation XP
Reply #6 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 5:02pm
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Asheras wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 5:01pm:
Level cap raises always come with a lack of content in the new level range.


correct.
  
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Re: Sev posts about Reincarnation XP
Reply #7 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 5:06pm
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It'd be neat if they'd raise the cap to 30 but let us keep ETRing at 28.

Otherwise, meh. It is what it is. They can only f up so much.
  

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Re: Sev posts about Reincarnation XP
Reply #8 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 5:09pm
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Post was by Varg.

Carry on.
  

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Re: Sev posts about Reincarnation XP
Reply #9 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 5:16pm
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noamineo wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 5:06pm:
They can only f up so much.


you must be new to this game...
  
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Re: Sev posts about Reincarnation XP
Reply #10 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 5:18pm
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[] wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 5:16pm:
you must be new to this game...


Dint you quit this game?
  
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Re: Sev posts about Reincarnation XP
Reply #11 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 5:24pm
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Asheras wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 5:01pm:
Level cap raises always come with a lack of content in the new level range.  Except, possibly, for the raise to 24 when they had all the old epics and the MoTU content to get to 24.


I accept that will be a deficit in the short term, but they have had 2 years to work on end game, and the quality of end game is to be honest, crap.

By making incentives redundant, no-one seems to run MoD any more, and the Shavarath raid is still populated but people still grumble about lag mitigation.  What else is level 30 material? TOEE?  Gives level 26 loot after a stupid amount of grind.

I know they will bring Epic Vale and GS2 with level 30, but given the track record over past two years, who thinks they can actually deliver something good?  Their loot design is a joke, unplanned and incohesive.

They think they're ready for lvl 30, but I disagree.
  
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Re: Sev posts about Reincarnation XP
Reply #12 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 5:42pm
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Blahblahnlah is all I hear from them. Either they want people to play or not. Either they hear us that more XP is too much or not. Up to them.

I don't know about anyone else, but I only stopped Heroic TRing my chars because TR cache. Fuck the inventory nightmare. Straight from the cache back to the cache and I can be arsed. Make me a chore beyond what I'm willing to take and I'm not paying for the privilege. Same applies here.
  
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Re: Sev posts about Reincarnation XP
Reply #13 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 5:44pm
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Greet Steel 2 will be:

*Stupid amounts of grind
*GS1-calibur weapons with 1-2 augment slots added
*ML30, because they forgot why The Shroud is the most played Raid in history.

Prove me wrong, turdbin, prove me wrong.
  

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Re: Sev posts about Reincarnation XP
Reply #14 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 6:01pm
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DropBear wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 5:24pm:
I accept that will be a deficit in the short term, but they have had 2 years to work on end game, and the quality of end game is to be honest, crap.

By making incentives redundant, no-one seems to run MoD any more, and the Shavarath raid is still populated but people still grumble about lag mitigation.  What else is level 30 material? TOEE?  Gives level 26 loot after a stupid amount of grind.

I know they will bring Epic Vale and GS2 with level 30, but given the track record over past two years, who thinks they can actually deliver something good?  Their loot design is a joke, unplanned and incohesive.

They think they're ready for lvl 30, but I disagree.


I wish more people would run Thunderholme raids and MoD.  I enjoy MoD.
  
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Re: Sev posts about Reincarnation XP
Reply #15 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 6:38pm
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Asheras wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 6:01pm:
I wish more people would run Thunderholme raids and MoD.  I enjoy MoD. 


They need to be more careful not to invalidate loot from anything that is planned to be level 30.
The ideal would be to have items that are best in slot for a class or role, but that people can realistically use gear from any of the end game raids to build.

It wouldn't be easy, but it does require a plan - an ability to look beyond the next update.
The MoD loot with upgradeable slots is a good idea in theory - the problem is we've got more slots than possible augments now so those slots are not a very strong motivator to grind MoD.

  
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Re: Sev posts about Reincarnation XP
Reply #16 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 6:59pm
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[] wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 5:16pm:
you must be new to this game...


As a Vet you know to PM to buy Vault cred. Yes. Great.
  

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Re: Sev posts about Reincarnation XP
Reply #17 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 7:35pm
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DropBear wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 6:38pm:
They need to be more careful not to invalidate loot from anything that is planned to be level 30.
The ideal would be to have items that are best in slot for a class or role, but that people can realistically use gear from any of the end game raids to build.

It wouldn't be easy, but it does require a plan - an ability to look beyond the next update.
The MoD loot with upgradeable slots is a good idea in theory - the problem is we've got more slots than possible augments now so those slots are not a very strong motivator to grind MoD.



We both know that is wishful thinking. They 're gonna fuck up the loot table, level and design AGAIN. If they make GS 2.0 available in the early epic levels then all the previous loot would become next to useless (some packs like storm horn had almost garbage loot anyway). If they make GS 2.0 for level 28 to 30 then the grind to get them is simply stupid.

They will probably fuck up with something in between.

Regarding the exp for reincarnation, well.....that is another problem. Bear with me:

A toon first reaching level 20 with elite streak available can easily get to 28 with current content. The issue starts when ETRing and having to grind 8 epic levels again without first time completion bonus and streak. That is a massive PITA.

They are simply forcing us to run the usual exp train 3or 4 more times.

Why the fuck do we even need level 30 honestly? To get a new feat and run EE level 32 quests that we already solo at level 28?
« Last Edit: Nov 2nd, 2015 at 7:36pm by Artorias »  
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Re: Sev posts about Reincarnation XP
Reply #18 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 7:44pm
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Artorias wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 7:35pm:
We both know that is wishful thinking. They 're gonna fuck up the loot table, level and design AGAIN. If they make GS 2.0 available in the early epic levels then all the previous loot would become next to useless (some packs like storm horn had almost garbage loot anyway). If they make GS 2.0 for level 28 to 30 then the grind to get them is simply stupid.

They will probably fuck up with something in between.

Regarding the exp for reincarnation, well.....that is another problem. Bear with me:

A toon first reaching level 20 with elite streak available can easily get to 28 with current content. The issue starts when ETRing and having to grind 8 epic levels again without first time completion bonus and streak. That is a massive PITA.

They are simply forcing us to run the usual exp train 3or 4 more times.

Why the fuck do we even need level 30 honestly? To get a new feat and run EE level 32 quests that we already solo at level 28?

Amen brother.
  

Dear players,

The D&D rules you were familiar with were too simple to understand, so we're continuing our move away from them to needlessly confusing subsystems that will make your play experience less fun and invalidate old builds and loot. We hope you have fun working out what the fuck MRR, PRR, MP, SP, RP, CL, MCL and all the other bullshit we made up whilst drunk means.

Love,

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Re: Sev posts about Reincarnation XP
Reply #19 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 7:46pm
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Artorias wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 7:35pm:
Why the fuck do we even need level 30 honestly? To get a new feat and run EE level 32 quests that we already solo at level 28?


Absolutely agree.
Following the current progression there is unlikely to be anything worth grinding out those extra levels.

Conversely, if they go with some "legendary" ability at lvl 30 as an incentive, then the extra power will already make the current end game more trivial.

Both options create problems for longevity.
It also strings out players over an even longer range, although someone mentioned they have adjusted the level range that Epic players can play together, but have not tested it.

As usual, being the "trained professionals" they'll ignore all the valid feedback and warnings and do what they want and then try to reverse justify it after the event.
  
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Re: Sev posts about Reincarnation XP
Reply #20 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 8:12pm
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whatever, hamster dicks analyst.
  
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Re: Sev posts about Reincarnation XP
Reply #21 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 8:53pm
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DropBear wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 7:46pm:
Absolutely agree.
Following the current progression there is unlikely to be anything worth grinding out those extra levels.

Conversely, if they go with some "legendary" ability at lvl 30 as an incentive, then the extra power will already make the current end game more trivial.

Both options create problems for longevity.
It also strings out players over an even longer range, although someone mentioned they have adjusted the level range that Epic players can play together, but have not tested it.

As usual, being the "trained professionals" they'll ignore all the valid feedback and warnings and do what they want and then try to reverse justify it after the event.

I bet the "legendary" shit will be +1 damage.
  

Dear players,

The D&D rules you were familiar with were too simple to understand, so we're continuing our move away from them to needlessly confusing subsystems that will make your play experience less fun and invalidate old builds and loot. We hope you have fun working out what the fuck MRR, PRR, MP, SP, RP, CL, MCL and all the other bullshit we made up whilst drunk means.

Love,

People who don't know how to fix their own mistakes cleanly
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Re: Sev posts about Reincarnation XP
Reply #22 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 9:02pm
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I wouldn't mind a grind to level 30 if they would give us some way to trade in multiple epic destiny spheres in 1 ETR.  ETR is all about the destiny XP, and it's just bullshit that we'll have to piss away 3 million just to get to the level cap.
  

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Re: Sev posts about Reincarnation XP
Reply #23 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 11:41pm
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Quote:
Lesson learned!

This should be their slogan.
  

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Re: Sev posts about Reincarnation XP
Reply #24 - Nov 3rd, 2015 at 3:23am
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DropBear wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 4:55pm:
I find it amusing that Sev thinks they have enough end game content now.
How many level 30 raids do they have?  How many quests do they have 28-30 to provide XP for the next of ETR's?


Sev and thinking doesn't go in the same line, and the fact that the devs don't see that epic new content that they currently have would be run more often if the xp gained is better. Don't they ever wonder why we do our dailies xp run on the same old content XD
  
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