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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger. (Read 50341 times)
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Re: U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger.
Reply #100 - Oct 6th, 2016 at 10:47pm
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The conclusion I'm seeing is that people should use what they have, or what is easily available. Lookin' like a wash.

Celestial Avenger Armor: PRR, quality deadly 3, insightful saves, Fort

Temple Armor: Resistance, Absorb, Fort, SET OPTION for 10 MP

Deathwyrm Armor: Ghostly, 2d6 SA profane, Fort, invis clicky
« Last Edit: Oct 6th, 2016 at 10:50pm by WonderfulFoppyBint »  

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Re: U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger.
Reply #101 - Oct 7th, 2016 at 10:03am
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WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Oct 6th, 2016 at 7:38pm:
I was under the impression that Elemental vulnerability is still overwriting standard vulnerability from thunderforged and greensteel.


You've got it backwards. Standard vulnerability overwrites elemental vulnerability.

WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Oct 6th, 2016 at 10:37pm:
Took my numbers from my toon.


I don't think it's fair to assume that you're always getting FE damage or Advancing Blows but if you're going for a best-case scenario that's fine.

Also, I was assuming Arborea, but if you're going Ethereal then your SA is off. One third of 117 hide is 39 and you should also have 7 insightful deception since the Executioner Helm is clearly best in slot. So SA damage should be 81.5x3.55 vs 81.5x3.19. Added ML differentiated proc numbers for Meteoric Star Rubies as well.

So correcting your numbers should be:

643.0941 weapon + 39.58 proc + 289.325 SA = 971.9991 ToEE khopesh
669.0585 weapon + 19.94 proc + 259.985 SA = 948.9835 Balizarde

Best case scenario, Bali is still ~2.5% behind in the side by side. But then ToEE adds ~154 weapon damage and 29.34 SA damage to the main hand, completely blowing it away by over 20%.

1155.3391 ToEE Khopesh
948.9835 Balizarde
« Last Edit: Oct 7th, 2016 at 10:05am by 5 Foot Step »  

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Re: U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger.
Reply #102 - Oct 7th, 2016 at 10:25pm
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Good points. I think you may have convinced me, but I have several reservations still.

Some of my issues with the set-up are related to main-handing an LGS stick for pt2 of shroud (for defense) and the gearing issues associated with Temple Armor VS Celestial (or even Thunderforged) in terms of other effects.

Also DR bypass is looking kinda like an issue. The weapons don’t have adamantine or silver which seems problematic. What workaround do you use?
Do you use Celestias? I'm actually Rapier spec'd atm since it seemed more effective feat-wise.

--
--
--


5 Foot Step wrote on Oct 7th, 2016 at 10:03am:
You've got it backwards. Standard vulnerability overwrites elemental vulnerability.


Really! I was told repeatedly that wasn’t the case. I’ll post up video proof of this tonight if I can get someone to use it on me in pvp.

5 Foot Step wrote on Oct 7th, 2016 at 10:03am:
Also, I was assuming Arborea, but if you're going Ethereal then your SA is off. One third of 117 hide is 39 and you should also have 7 insightful deception since the Executioner Helm is clearly best in slot. So SA damage should be 81.5x3.55 vs 81.5x3.19.

Cool.
5 Foot Step wrote on Oct 7th, 2016 at 10:03am:
So correcting your numbers should be:

643.0941 weapon + 39.58 proc + 289.325 SA = 971.9991 ToEE khopesh
669.0585 weapon + 19.94 proc + 259.985 SA = 948.9835 Balizarde

I’m following up to this point but could you clarify this?
5 Foot Step wrote on Oct 7th, 2016 at 10:03am:
Best case scenario, Bali is still ~2.5% behind in the side by side. But then ToEE adds ~154 weapon damage and 29.34 SA damage to the main hand, completely blowing it away by over 20%.
1155.3391 ToEE Khopesh
948.9835 Balizarde


I’ll try to talk myself through this….
I slot ToEE in the main hand so it would add to my offhand Thunderforged weapon. The damage increase to this weapon would be 20 MP (so 144 to 164). 164/144 is 13% higher. Adding in Thousand Cuts makes the increase even less, but I totally see this the game of 10% or more on a non Silver-Good target.

5 Foot Step wrote on Oct 7th, 2016 at 10:03am:
I don't think it's fair to assume that you're always getting FE damage or Advancing Blows but if you're going for a best-case scenario that's fine.
5 Foot Step wrote on Oct 7th, 2016 at 10:03am:
  Added ML differentiated proc numbers for Meteoric Star Rubies as well.

I’m taking my toon as an example---I may change gear, and you’re bringing up some good points but I obviously have reservations about some of the calcs.
I have FE damage and up constantly. Advancing blows should be kept as a constant in calcs, since a good zerg or boss fight will have it more than 95% of the time. Likewise I keep good slotted in the balizarde since that’s relevant for Devil content. I agree that it would be nice to have a second one but I don’t---no fire damage on devils anyway.
SIDENOTE: am playing a sorc in slavers, so am optimizing for shroud and other things going forward.


« Last Edit: Oct 7th, 2016 at 10:27pm by WonderfulFoppyBint »  

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Re: U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger.
Reply #103 - Oct 8th, 2016 at 11:06am
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WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Oct 7th, 2016 at 10:25pm:
Some of my issues with the set-up are related to main-handing an LGS stick for pt2 of shroud (for defense)


The cooldown on Affirmation makes it only good as a swap item. Put it in a set with TF Reinvigor and swap them in for a few seconds every 100.

WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Oct 7th, 2016 at 10:25pm:
gearing issues associated with Temple Armor VS Celestial


See gear list on the previous page.

WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Oct 7th, 2016 at 10:25pm:
Also DR bypass is looking kinda like an issue. The weapons don’t have adamantine or silver which seems problematic. What workaround do you use?


I have arti scrolls and a bag full of augments and toolkits.

WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Oct 7th, 2016 at 10:25pm:
Do you use Celestias?


I have Celestias. They are quite good against high PRR and high unbreakable DR targets if unborked.

WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Oct 7th, 2016 at 10:25pm:
Really! I was told repeatedly that wasn’t the case.


If I had a nickel for every time someone was wrong in party chat.

WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Oct 7th, 2016 at 10:25pm:
I’ll try to talk myself through this….
I slot ToEE in the main hand so it would add to my offhand Thunderforged weapon. The damage increase to this weapon would be 20 MP (so 144 to 164). 164/144 is 13% higher. Adding in Thousand Cuts makes the increase even less, but I totally see this the game of 10% or more on a non Silver-Good target.


I think you've mostly got it. You are right I messed up that part of the calc multiplying the wrong number.

Corrected:

Best case scenario, Bali is still ~2.5% behind in the side by side. But then ToEE adds 64.38672 weapon damage and 29.34 SA damage to the main hand (assuming base damage = ToEE, which is a lowball), which pushes the difference up to 12.35%.

1066.17663 ToEE Khopesh
  948.9835 Balizarde

Code
Select All
138.54 base x1.95 crit multi = 270.153
270.153 x2.46 MP = 664.57638
270.153 x2.7 MP = 729.4131
729.4131-664.57638=64.38672
64.38672+29.34=94.17672
971.9991+94.17672=1066.17663
1066.17663/948.9835=1.123493327333932 

« Last Edit: Oct 8th, 2016 at 11:39am by 5 Foot Step »  

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Re: U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger.
Reply #104 - Oct 8th, 2016 at 12:35pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Oct 8th, 2016 at 11:06am:
See gear list on the previous page.

Couple of holes in your gear setup. 

1) While PRR/MRR isn't everything, giving up 38/45 of it is noticable.   Less time spent healing/dead = more dps.
2) No Parrying/Riposte.  Same as the Sheltering.  Giving up 7 to all 3 saves is iffy.
3) No deathblock.  Is fine until Deathward gets dispelled and you can't recast.
4) No UMD item.  Not a big deal, but on a non-charisma based toon, it might make it problematic to UMD the higher level scrolls.


I like this setup a little better:
  • Visions of Precision / Epic Glimpse of the Soul
  • Legendary Executioner's Helm
  • Legendary Pendant of the Warrior's Focus     7% Ins Doublestrike
  • Legendary Planar Compass
  • Outfit of the Celestial Avenger
  • Legendary Slave Master's Cloak
  • Slave Lords Crafted Bracers      Con, Q Con, Pos Spell Power, Skill: Heal
  • Legendary Animated Rope
  • Slave Lords Crafted Ring      False Life, UMD, Q Prr
  • Slave Lords Crafted Boots      Str, Q Str, Resistance, Tendon Slice
  • Backstabber's Gloves EE      
  • Legendary Ring of Prowess
  • LGS Khopesh                  Shocking, Ins Str, Excep Str
  • T3 MF TF Khopesh2            1st Degree Burns, Dragon's Edge, Mortal Fear/Draconic Reinvigoration

You gain 7% ins doublestrike, the 5-piece Slave Lord set bonus, a good bit of PRR and MRR, 7 (maybe more) saves, deathblock, 7 UMD, and some HPs.

Use haste pots/scrolls or Blinding Speed feat for speed.

Switch to a CC trinket for Doublestrike, Accuracy and Ins Seeker if you want to use light celestial armor instead of cloth.


« Last Edit: Oct 8th, 2016 at 1:19pm by Digimonk »  
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Re: U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger.
Reply #105 - Oct 8th, 2016 at 1:18pm
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Digimonk wrote on Oct 8th, 2016 at 12:35pm:
1) While PRR/MRR isn't everything, giving up 38/45 of it is noticable.


There's an augment for that.

Digimonk wrote on Oct 8th, 2016 at 12:35pm:
2) No Parrying/Riposte.  Same as the Sheltering.  Giving up 7 to all 3 saves is iffy.


7 is only available on armor. It is great to have but not worth the mutually exclusive 20 MP. 4 is available on bracers, but is not worth devoting an entire slot to that one effect to when you can slave craft there.

Digimonk wrote on Oct 8th, 2016 at 12:35pm:
3) No deathblock.


There's pots for that.

Digimonk wrote on Oct 8th, 2016 at 12:35pm:
4) No UMD item.


Target number is 39

11 heroic ranks
10 epic ranks
9 Charisma (8 base + 8 enh (aug) + 7 tome + 2 profane + 2 guild + 1 exc)
5 inherent (tome)
3 PL (Arti)
3 guild (ship buff)
4 morale (GH)
2 luck (augment)
1 profane (spider mask)

48

Quote:
Scalemail of the Celestial Avenger


Is medium armor.
  

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Re: U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger.
Reply #106 - Oct 8th, 2016 at 1:25pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Oct 8th, 2016 at 1:18pm:
There's an augment for that.


7 is only available on armor. It is great to have but not worth the mutually exclusive 20 MP. 4 is available on bracers, but is not worth devoting an entire slot to that one effect to when you can slave craft there.


There's pots for that.


Target number is 39

11 heroic ranks
10 epic ranks
9 Charisma (8 base + 8 enh (aug) + 7 tome + 2 profane + 2 guild + 1 exc)
5 inherent (tome)
3 PL (Arti)   I only have 1 arti PL currently so only +1 for me
3 guild (ship buff)
4 morale (GH)     Sure, until it gets dispelled and you need to res people quickly
2 luck (augment)
1 profane (spider mask)     Gear swapping sucks and should be minimized as much as possible

48


Is medium armor.

The PRR aug is what?  15 PRR only?  Big difference between 15 PRR and 38 (or use Slave Lord crafting for it) PRR + MRR.  The aug is a weak alternative imo.

I realize 7 parrying wouldn't be worth giving up the ToEE set bonus all by itself, but with this setup, you give up ToEE set bonus for 7 parrying, 7 insightful doubleshot, the 5-piece Slave Lord set bonus, a decent bit of PRR/MRR and some quality of life gains by not having to swap gear for UMD and/or use consumable pots.  Worth the trade imo.

Yeah, caught the medium armor and updated the post about the same time you did.   I was copying/pasting a list from a 15/5 paladin/ranger that I put together for a friend.   

Re: UMD, I prefer to avoid needing to gear swap and rely on buffs that can be dispelled.  Personal preference and all, but I'd rather spend time clicking the clickies and doing DPS than gear swapping.

I readily admit that the gear setup I proposed may be slightly less DPS on paper and spreadsheets, but I think in practice throughout the normal course of gameplay, it will be fairly close due to the QoL benefits and better defenses (less healing and dying).
« Last Edit: Oct 8th, 2016 at 1:33pm by Digimonk »  
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Re: U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger.
Reply #107 - Oct 8th, 2016 at 2:23pm
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Digimonk wrote on Oct 8th, 2016 at 1:25pm:
3 PL (Arti)   I only have 1 arti PL currently so only +1 for me
4 morale (GH)     Sure, until it gets dispelled and you need to res people quickly


OK, you're still at 41. That's 130% on Raise Dead, 110% on Heal, and 90% on Resurrection.


Digimonk wrote on Oct 8th, 2016 at 1:25pm:
1 profane (spider mask)


Is a cosmetic.

Digimonk wrote on Oct 8th, 2016 at 1:25pm:
The PRR aug is what?  15 PRR only?  Big difference between 15 PRR and 38 (or use Slave Lord crafting for it) PRR + MRR.  The aug is a weak alternative imo.


It is 16 and it is both PRR and MRR.

Digimonk wrote on Oct 8th, 2016 at 1:25pm:
I realize 7 parrying wouldn't be worth giving up the ToEE set bonus all by itself, but with this setup, you give up ToEE set bonus for 7 parrying, 7 insightful doubleshot, the 5-piece Slave Lord set bonus, a decent bit of PRR/MRR


You give up more than that. Your list has no Hamp, no exc Hamp, no Ins MRR, no eLitany , no ins AP, 3 augment slots, 1 less mythic MP, and stats on your weapon. Something's gotta give, you can't have it all.
  

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Re: U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger.
Reply #108 - Oct 8th, 2016 at 2:28pm
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Actually looking over the list again, I might swap the mysterious cloak for the slave cloak. That would fill the 5-piece and give me 6 "insightful resistance" (the same bonus as parrying).

Thanks for the help.
  

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Re: U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger.
Reply #109 - Oct 8th, 2016 at 2:45pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Oct 8th, 2016 at 2:23pm:
OK, you're still at 41. That's 130% on Raise Dead, 110% on Heal, and 90% on Resurrection.



Is a cosmetic.


It is 16 and it is both PRR and MRR.


You give up more than that. Your list has no Hamp, no exc Hamp, no Ins MRR, no eLitany , no ins AP, 3 augment slots, 1 less mythic MP, and stats on your weapon. Something's gotta give, you can't have it all.

HAmp isn't a huge deal from past experience, at least as long as your positive spellpower and positive crit is good enough which it should be on a pure ranger.

Yes, the insightful MRR hurts a little bit but is more than balanced by the better defenses and saves.

For eLitany, +2 to stats is only +1 bonus to various things and then the +4 dmg.  Unless you're on a primarily DC based build like a PM or assassin, I think people have over valued it for a while now versus the other good options in the trinket slot.  At this point, the Planar Compass, Memoriam (+4 good luck bonus + HAmp), and now Cannith Crafted and Slave Lord crafted are all strong, if not better contenders.  Would you give up an entire slot for one item that gave +5 exceptional Deadly? Because that's about what it amounts to.  I wouldn't.

Giving up the named slave lord ring and the Ins AP sucks a bit, but needed slave lord crafted in that slot for more important effects.

Beyond the core set of named augs, most of them are filler and fluff anyway.

1 MP?  /shrug


« Last Edit: Oct 8th, 2016 at 2:48pm by Digimonk »  
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Re: U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger.
Reply #110 - Oct 8th, 2016 at 3:07pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Oct 8th, 2016 at 11:06am:
The cooldown on Affirmation makes it only good as a swap item. Put it in a set with TF Reinvigor and swap them in for a few seconds every 100.


I reccomend Stacking Devotion / Insightful 7 Con / Good blast metalline for pt 2 of shroud.




5 Foot Step wrote on Oct 8th, 2016 at 11:06am:
I have arti scrolls and a bag full of augments and toolkits.


I have Celestias. They are quite good against high PRR and high unbreakable DR targets if unborked.


Right right. Am pierce spec'd atm because of feats. I highly reccomend imp crit pierce on the suckers. Do you know of a better portal beater? I think on a fighter the damage might be high enough but on a ranger they still look optimal. They get used on the book in pt 5 as well, even though I have a Chaotic imbue. Am just too lazy and getting ruined means I have to cast another.

5 Foot Step wrote on Oct 8th, 2016 at 11:06am:
If I had a nickel for every time someone was wrong in party chat.


Check'd it today, and it seems the two effects stack in PVP. Neither is invalidating the other.
  

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Re: U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger.
Reply #111 - Oct 8th, 2016 at 7:10pm
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WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Oct 8th, 2016 at 3:07pm:
Check'd it today, and it seems the two effects stack in PVP. Neither is invalidating the other.


Intersesting. When did this happen? And does it apply to mobs?
  

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Re: U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger.
Reply #112 - Oct 17th, 2016 at 3:01pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Oct 8th, 2016 at 7:10pm:
Interesting. When did this happen? And does it apply to mobs?


if this is about the cloak, they dont stack. i stopped using the slave cloak because it doesn't stack with my parrying 7 item
  
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Re: U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger.
Reply #113 - Oct 19th, 2016 at 10:53am
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lostthenloved wrote on Oct 17th, 2016 at 3:01pm:
if this is about the cloak, they dont stack. i stopped using the slave cloak because it doesn't stack with my parrying 7 item


We're talking about vulnerability vs elemental vulnerability.

I'm looking at using the cloak instead of parrying items on several builds though.
  

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Re: U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger.
Reply #114 - Oct 24th, 2016 at 11:43am
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5 Foot Step wrote on Oct 7th, 2016 at 10:03am:
948.9835 Balizarde


Math, smath.   This is closer to 12k than 9k.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMxq17AJO1I
  
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Re: U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger.
Reply #115 - Nov 18th, 2016 at 10:53am
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Bigjunk wrote on Oct 24th, 2016 at 11:43am:
Math, smath.   This is closer to 12k than 9k.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMxq17AJO1I


He was talking about damage per swing, not per second. And it's 948, not 9k LOL. BTW, can you record that with a ToEE khop?
  
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Re: U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger.
Reply #116 - Nov 18th, 2016 at 10:53am
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Wich one do you guys think wins DPS: fighter TWF or ranger?

And nobody thinks HElf is an option? Freeing some AP somehwere and dropping one of those WF feats could net 2d6 SA.
« Last Edit: Nov 18th, 2016 at 11:00am by Vaultaccount »  
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Re: U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger.
Reply #117 - Nov 18th, 2016 at 11:01am
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Vaultaccount wrote on Nov 18th, 2016 at 10:53am:
Wich one do you guys think wins DPS: fighter TWF or ranger?


Your mother wins, in a dick sucking contest, against a gaggle of Vietnamese whores trained from birth for no other purpose than to suck dick; hands down.
  
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Re: U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger.
Reply #118 - Nov 19th, 2016 at 3:27pm
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Thinking of TR'ing my main into a twf meelee for a change of pace and because im bored as shit......how does the ranger hold up to this build from the mobo's?

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/480427-BamBam-with-Sam-A-Jade-Striking...

This build seems pretty sick...
« Last Edit: Nov 19th, 2016 at 3:28pm by zoriaan »  
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Re: U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger.
Reply #119 - Nov 20th, 2016 at 5:18pm
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zoriaan wrote on Nov 19th, 2016 at 3:27pm:
Thinking of TR'ing my main into a twf meelee for a change of pace and because im bored as shit......how does the ranger hold up to this build from the mobo's?

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/480427-BamBam-with-Sam-A-Jade-Striking...

This build seems pretty sick...


I don't see what's with that build: less DPS than pure ranger, and less survivability. Same compared to pure fighter. Being in pajamas is a huge cost for a fighter, just look at Cletus build how thats a failure (compare that video of he doing TS almost dying many times, relying heavly on dire charge to stay alive and probably died some times trying to record that crap) to some pure ranger videos where they confortably kill stuff without the need to stun, such as this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phSCASWMwIM. Compare how Cletus is trying hard while this guy is chilling.

The only intresting thing in that build, wich is where it differs from Cletus' one, is the knock the sky shit. He says it's 20% max, but wiki says it's 10%. Idk if wiki is outdated, but anyways, that may be an useful debuff for reaper, but not sure if it's worth doing a build for. That is effective on bosses only, it's useless on trash, and probably there are other debuffs with less cost, that do the same thing. Also, check the video he did for shroud part 2 to prove how it is effective: he dies and he was using cookies. LOL, idk what he thinks that's proving, because for me it is proving that it does not work.
« Last Edit: Nov 20th, 2016 at 6:06pm by Vaultaccount »  
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Bigjunk
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Re: U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger.
Reply #120 - Nov 20th, 2016 at 7:05pm
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Vaultaccount wrote on Nov 18th, 2016 at 10:53am:
BTW, can you record that with a ToEE khop?


No, I don't have one.
  
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Re: U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger.
Reply #121 - Nov 20th, 2016 at 7:08pm
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Vaultaccount wrote on Nov 20th, 2016 at 5:18pm:
I don't see what's with that build: less DPS than pure ranger, and less survivability.



The DPS may be one par or more than a tempest, it's Ki stuffs adds DPS to the whole groups which has to count for something.

I'm named this the "jade cannon" because it is fragile.

A Tempest is also easier to play, way less buttons to push to be at optimum damage output.
  
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Re: U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger.
Reply #122 - Nov 21st, 2016 at 1:13am
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Vaultaccount wrote on Nov 20th, 2016 at 5:18pm:
I don't see what's with that build: less DPS than pure ranger, and less survivability


Bigjunk wrote on Nov 20th, 2016 at 7:08pm:
A Tempest is also easier to play, way less buttons to push to be at optimum damage output.


Ah ok cool, thanks for the feedack...I am so out of touch with meelee been a while since i played one at cap...i hated playing a fighter d/t the gaziliion boosts you have to click so I guess I will give a tempest ranger a go... Smiley
« Last Edit: Nov 21st, 2016 at 1:14am by zoriaan »  
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Re: U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger.
Reply #123 - Nov 21st, 2016 at 1:15am
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Vaultaccount wrote on Nov 20th, 2016 at 5:18pm:
Also, check the video he did for shroud part 2 to prove how it is effective: he dies and he was using cookies. LOL, idk what he thinks that's proving, because for me it is proving that it does not work.


Yeah I did have a little chuckle to myself when I saw that Smiley
  
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Re: U29 Max DPS Melee Ranger.
Reply #124 - Nov 21st, 2016 at 7:23am
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Bigjunk wrote on Nov 20th, 2016 at 7:08pm:
The DPS may be one par or more than a tempest, it's Ki stuffs adds DPS to the whole groups which has to count for something.

I'm named this the "jade cannon" because it is fragile.

A Tempest is also easier to play, way less buttons to push to be at optimum damage output.


Fine. What's he using to heal?
  
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