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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) The Great Terror (Read 93384 times)
Asheras
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Re: The Great Terror
Reply #250 - Oct 13th, 2016 at 1:26pm
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noamineo wrote on Oct 13th, 2016 at 12:54pm:
The goal was not to claim a BF version is "better", simply to get good self-healing. And some swanky chin-blades.


Play what you like.  If you prefer BF for the look or just the play style of the self-healing, go for it.  Even if it doesn't end up being optimal.  But you are correct.  It might not be "better' or "worse'.  Just "different".  Some trade offs work that way. 
  
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Re: The Great Terror
Reply #251 - Oct 13th, 2016 at 1:35pm
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Personally I didn't think you were ever suggesting something was better man. But with a BF you are also screwing with the leveling and having to burn a +1 heart, all for a must less effective toon. The amounts of DPS and effect you are giving away is pretty bad.

It may have escaped your notice but Steel's OP build picks up a pile of extra action boosts, so that it runs with the human damage boost and the human +3 wis a lot so you are losing the dps and the DC for the BF.

As far as healing, the ranger levels plus hamp should have your healing sorted out for you even on a first lifer.

Also not sure if you realize how many points of effectiveness you are going to give away for scribing in the BF tree.

  
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Re: The Great Terror
Reply #252 - Oct 13th, 2016 at 1:55pm
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noamineo wrote on Oct 13th, 2016 at 12:54pm:
There's certainly no harm in trying. Even if it doesn't work out, the DPS is still pretty high. I think I'll try this next-life.

The goal was not to claim a BF version is "better", simply to get good self-healing. And some swanky chin-blades.


I think what they are telling you is, it's quite fine if you wish to BF rogue mech, but it's pointless shooting for Phantasmal Killer arrows if your DC doesn't check out.

Just go BF 18 Rogue 1 Paladin 1 Artificer and call it a day.
  
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Re: The Great Terror
Reply #253 - Oct 13th, 2016 at 2:40pm
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DoRayEgon wrote on Oct 13th, 2016 at 1:55pm:
I think what they are telling you is, it's quite fine if you wish to BF rogue mech, but it's pointless shooting for Phantasmal Killer arrows if your DC doesn't check out.

Just go BF 18 Rogue 1 Paladin 1 Artificer and call it a day.


With the latest gear from slavers and CC, most builds are seeing a 6-7 DC bump from where they were pre-U32.  With no increase in mob DC's in the lastest content.  DC's should check out just fine, assuming you are using +7 tomes and the latest gear.  If not, then the DC's will probably not check out. 

The loss of the human damage boost may be a concern.  Otherwise, he is just taking the 5 AP in Human and needs 11 AP to get the full Scribing.  Losing the Wis boost from AA and the top tier of BE Crossbow damage gets 4 of those points.  So far your losses are +2 permanent wisdom, the damage boost, and the temp wisdom boost from the human action surge, and the +1 to hit, +2 to damage.  That's not that much.  The gear power creep more than replaces the DC benefits of the wisdom.  And the damage isn't going to be that far off.  It's going to be lesser, but given that most builds, with the new gear, will be getting DPS increases, it will offset to some degree.  At this point, the trade off is workable.  It is 95-97% the same, just with another source of self healing through scribing.  But you only have two ranks. 

You can go with the two ranks version of scribing or you have to give up one of the following: Endless Fusilade(6 seconds of auto-reload), Mechanical Repeater (+10 RP, +30% Alacrity), Sniper (3 SA Dice, +2[w], and vorpal on 19-20), or two ranks of Rapid fire (7% doubleshot).  You only have to lose one of them, but I can't see any place else to find the 2 AP you need.

Getting that last rank of scribing to get the cool down from 15 seconds to 6 is going to be tough.  You have to give up something that is going to cost you a fair amount of DPS.  That's the big trade off.  Is scribing worth, say 7% doubleshot? 

That's the question you have to ask. 
« Last Edit: Oct 13th, 2016 at 2:44pm by Asheras »  
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Re: The Great Terror
Reply #254 - Oct 13th, 2016 at 4:18pm
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As far as healing, the ranger levels plus hamp should have your healing sorted out for you even on a first lifer.



In what way? 4 levels of ranger nets you exactly 0 healing spells. There's hamp, sure, but that's about it. I see no self-healing on this build as is, unless you want to count the Curative Ad-Mixutre on the Artificer spell list.

There's always Want/Potion/Scroll healing, too which I say "eww". I've done that, it was easily the least fun I've had. Plus, you have to STOP firing arrows, and who wants to do that?


Asheras wrote on Oct 13th, 2016 at 2:40pm:
With the latest gear from slavers and CC, most builds are seeing a 6-7 DC bump from where they were pre-U32.  With no increase in mob DC's in the lastest content.  DC's should check out just fine, assuming you are using +7 tomes and the latest gear.  If not, then the DC's will probably not check out. 

The loss of the human damage boost may be a concern.  Otherwise, he is just taking the 5 AP in Human and needs 11 AP to get the full Scribing.  Losing the Wis boost from AA and the top tier of BE Crossbow damage gets 4 of those points.  So far your losses are +2 permanent wisdom, the damage boost, and the temp wisdom boost from the human action surge, and the +1 to hit, +2 to damage.  That's not that much.  The gear power creep more than replaces the DC benefits of the wisdom.  And the damage isn't going to be that far off.  It's going to be lesser, but given that most builds, with the new gear, will be getting DPS increases, it will offset to some degree.  At this point, the trade off is workable.  It is 95-97% the same, just with another source of self healing through scribing.  But you only have two ranks. 

You can go with the two ranks version of scribing or you have to give up one of the following: Endless Fusilade(6 seconds of auto-reload), Mechanical Repeater (+10 RP, +30% Alacrity), Sniper (3 SA Dice, +2[w], and vorpal on 19-20), or two ranks of Rapid fire (7% doubleshot).  You only have to lose one of them, but I can't see any place else to find the 2 AP you need.

Getting that last rank of scribing to get the cool down from 15 seconds to 6 is going to be tough.  You have to give up something that is going to cost you a fair amount of DPS.  That's the big trade off.  Is scribing worth, say 7% doubleshot? 

That's the question you have to ask. 


^This^ pretty well works out all the math behind what I was saying. You could even make do with rank-1 communion and get an extra point. A 300-second cool-down "fully heal yourself" spell is not so bad. Not as good as 6 seconds and quickened, but on a ranged build it may not be so important.

The action boost is also a reasonable trade-off. That one action boost alone cannot make or break the build.

The leveling progression is also favorable. The current stated is:

Level progression: 1Arty, 2-5Ranger, 6-16Rogue, 17-19Arty, 20Rogue.

So instead it'd be:

Level progression: 1pal, 2-5Ranger, 6-15Rogue, +1 heart, 16 rogue, 17-19Arty, 20Rogue.

Its alsmost custom-made for this switch-over.
  

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Re: The Great Terror
Reply #255 - Oct 13th, 2016 at 4:29pm
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DoRayEgon wrote on Oct 13th, 2016 at 1:55pm:
I think what they are telling you is, it's quite fine if you wish to BF rogue mech, but it's pointless shooting for Phantasmal Killer arrows if your DC doesn't check out.

Just go BF 18 Rogue 1 Paladin 1 Artificer and call it a day.



Only 1 lev of Arty = no endless fusilade.
  
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Re: The Great Terror
Reply #256 - Oct 13th, 2016 at 4:48pm
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noamineo wrote on Oct 13th, 2016 at 4:18pm:
In what way? 4 levels of ranger nets you exactly 0 healing spells. There's hamp, sure, but that's about it. I see no self-healing on this build as is, unless you want to count the Curative Ad-Mixutre on the Artificer spell list.


Prior to 20 you can potions, and clickies and they are faster than using scribing which not only cost you 8 APs but is slow as shit. After 20 it all cocoon, BF is seriously gimp as fuck.
  
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Re: The Great Terror
Reply #257 - Oct 13th, 2016 at 5:52pm
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Prior to 20 you can potions, and clickies and they are faster than using scribing which not only cost you 8 APs but is slow as shit. After 20 it all cocoon, BF is seriously gimp as fuck.


Your logic is that switching an item for a clicky, using it, then switching back is somehow faster than scribbing? I don't see how that's physically possible.

If its a weapon, that several seconds of damage you're missing out on. If its an equipe-item thats possibly displacing some all-important piece of gear. Either way, it breaks up the action. Might as well be UMD-scroll healing, which sucks.

As for potions, if you speced your entire character around doing absolutely nothing but healing amp, a potion still wouldn't be 1/10th of a communion of scribbing.



Unrelated question: how much does being level-drained hurt your DCs?
  

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Re: The Great Terror
Reply #258 - Oct 13th, 2016 at 7:45pm
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noamineo wrote on Oct 13th, 2016 at 5:52pm:
Your logic is that switching an item for a clicky, using it, then switching back is somehow faster than scribbing? I don't see how that's physically possible.



For fucks sake let it go man, Clickies are hot bar'ed, as are potions. As for how they are somehow faster than scribing? well it's as simple as just playing it and you see. Because what you can't seem to want to address is that scribing is as slow as shit. Even more so compared to the other healing options for this kind of build prior to 20. Unless of course you want to now pick up quicken now as well? Cause at this point in your gimptastic ideas why not? you are already purposefully losing out on feats in this incredibly feat-tight build as it is. So why not grab quicken and make it that much worse so you can run it in a BF and still scribe slower than a click or pot for the lousy 5 levs until lev 20 when you should start using cocoon right? 

I mean come the fuck on man! I try to be patient when I read people posting useless garbage on Five foot's, Steel's, and Rubbins build threads but at this point you morons are driving me nuts with your aimless musing and ignorant build theory. Look at it, you are giving up damage 30% boost, +3 wis, extra feats, spending 4 more AP than you can afford to spend, and fucking up the crucial level progression (more feat losses) already so why not grab a pointless quicken feat so you can use gimped out scribing for 5 fucking levels so that you can pretend you have a fucking case here.

Why don't you just say "I want to play this flavor build" and move the fuck on to a different thread with this clueless shit? Or how about you go start your own build thread titled "fucked up gimpy BF scary shooter" and post all your uninformed bullshit there instead of messing up a thread that is about an actually viable fucking build?

And take Tilo with you as well. 
« Last Edit: Oct 13th, 2016 at 7:47pm by »  
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Re: The Great Terror
Reply #259 - Oct 13th, 2016 at 7:51pm
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Thanks Forest, I hadn't laughed today. 

Again, noamineo, save yourself the trouble and just go BF 18 Rogue 1 Paladin 1 Artificer and call it a day.
  
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Re: The Great Terror
Reply #260 - Oct 13th, 2016 at 8:01pm
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For fucks sake let it go man, Clickies are hot bar'ed, as are potions. As for how they are somehow faster than scribing? well it's as simple as just playing it and you see. Because what you can't seem to want to address is that scribing is as slow as shit. Even more so compared to the other healing options for this kind of build prior to 20. Unless of course you want to now pick up quicken now as well? Cause at this point in your gimptastic ideas why not? you are already purposefully losing out on feats in this incredibly feat-tight build as it is. So why not grab quicken and make it that much worse so you can run it in a BF and still scribe slower than a click or pot for the lousy 5 levs until lev 20 when you should start using cocoon right?

I mean come the fuck on man! I try to be patient when I read people posting useless garbage on Five foot's, Steel's, and Rubbins build threads but at this point you morons are driving me nuts with your aimless musing and ignorant build theory. Look at it, you are giving up damage 30% boost, +3 wis, extra feats, spending 4 more AP than you can afford to spend, and fucking up the crucial level progression (more feat losses) already so why not grab a pointless quicken feat so you can use gimped out scribing for 5 fucking levels so that you can pretend you have a fucking case here.

Why don't you just say "I want to play this flavor build" and move the fuck on to a different thread with this clueless shit? Or how about you go start your own build thread titled "fucked up gimpy BF scary shooter" and post all your uninformed bullshit there instead of messing up a thread that is about an actually viable fucking build?

And take Tilo with you as well. 


rofl  *boom* *mic drop*
  
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Re: The Great Terror
Reply #261 - Oct 13th, 2016 at 10:53pm
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I forgot about the feat loss with going to Bf from human.  But dropping the pl wiz or pl bard isn't that big a deal.  Your D.C.'s will still be the same or better when you have a slavers set on and a +17/+7/+4 wis stat items on. 

You are trading the 30% damage boost and +2 to damage for the scribing every 15 seconds.  But you can swap out the 4th twist for something else since you don't need the 3 extra boosts.  I'd go with action boost damage from the ld tree.  That will replace the action boost you lost.  So.  What you lose to get scribing is only +1 attack, +2 damage and 3 uses of damage boost per shrine. (I rarely run out of boosts).   

The difference is less than 5% of the overall dps of the build, if that.   It's really minor.   Honestly you can do this build with any race.  The build is effective regardless.   It's the class feats and enhancements that really make the build.  The race is kinda extraneous. 
« Last Edit: Oct 13th, 2016 at 10:53pm by Asheras »  
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Re: The Great Terror
Reply #262 - Oct 14th, 2016 at 1:48pm
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Asheras wrote on Oct 13th, 2016 at 10:53pm:
I forgot about the feat loss with going to Bf from human.  But dropping the pl wiz or pl bard isn't that big a deal.  Your D.C.'s will still be the same or better when you have a slavers set on and a +17/+7/+4 wis stat items on. 

You are trading the 30% damage boost and +2 to damage for the scribing every 15 seconds.  But you can swap out the 4th twist for something else since you don't need the 3 extra boosts.  I'd go with action boost damage from the ld tree.  That will replace the action boost you lost.  So.  What you lose to get scribing is only +1 attack, +2 damage and 3 uses of damage boost per shrine. (I rarely run out of boosts).   

The difference is less than 5% of the overall dps of the build, if that.   It's really minor.   Honestly you can do this build with any race.  The build is effective regardless.   It's the class feats and enhancements that really make the build.  The race is kinda extraneous. 



I give up, fuck it, can't be bothered at this point because there is so much wrong and uniformed garbage in this post that I can see myself wasting another 5 days of my life explaining obvious shit to another nitwit if I start. I guess Build-noobs must be related to hydras. 
« Last Edit: Oct 14th, 2016 at 1:49pm by »  
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Re: The Great Terror
Reply #263 - Oct 14th, 2016 at 2:45pm
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I give up, fuck it, can't be bothered at this point because there is so much wrong and uniformed garbage in this post that I can see myself wasting another 5 days of my life explaining obvious shit to another nitwit if I start. I guess Build-noobs must be related to hydras. 


I've got a character that still needs BF PL's and rogue PL's.  I can do Naom's variant for that life and invite you to join me in group to see how it performs and whether the build theory works or not, since we both play on Khyber.  Let me know.
  
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Re: The Great Terror
Reply #264 - Oct 14th, 2016 at 3:33pm
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Only 1 lev of Arty = no endless fusilade.


Good point.  BF 18 Rogue 1 Wizard 1 Paladin then, because fuck burning a heart.
  
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Re: The Great Terror
Reply #265 - Oct 19th, 2016 at 3:04pm
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So crit multipliers on thrown are going to work next patch.


Source?
  

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Re: The Great Terror
Reply #266 - Oct 19th, 2016 at 6:47pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Oct 19th, 2016 at 3:04pm:
Source?

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Re: The Great Terror
Reply #267 - Oct 20th, 2016 at 10:25am
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Originally Posted by Ulfo  View Post
So, bug prevent all abilities to add crit multiplier to thrown weapon will be fixed too?

Not for U33, unfortunately. It's not a small or simple problem. I'll try to get it pushed (back) up the priority list again.(Steelstar)

This is the latest I've seen posted on October 15th.  Is there something newer?  Link here:  https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/479777-Update-33-on-Lamannia-Preview-2...

Edit....yes actually Sev posted on the 18th that it WOULD be fixed in Update 33....
« Last Edit: Oct 20th, 2016 at 10:29am by DoRayEgon »  
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Re: The Great Terror
Reply #268 - Oct 20th, 2016 at 11:40am
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Technomage wrote on Oct 19th, 2016 at 6:47pm:
Lamannia Dev Tracker is your friend.


Not at work.
  

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Re: The Great Terror
Reply #269 - Oct 20th, 2016 at 12:48pm
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Asheras wrote on Oct 14th, 2016 at 2:45pm:
I've got a character that still needs BF PL's and rogue PL's.  I can do Naom's variant for that life and invite you to join me in group to see how it performs and whether the build theory works or not, since we both play on Khyber.  Let me know.



Hm. What makes you think that just because you're willing to waste your time playing a gimped wannabe build such as this for the sake of ego that I would want to wast my time waiting for you while you limp along in it?  I mean I can easily go find some noobs in the harbor to carry through quests if I'm feeling that charitable.
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Re: The Great Terror
Reply #270 - Oct 20th, 2016 at 3:23pm
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Hm. What makes you think that just because you're willing to waste your time playing a gimped wannabe build such as this for the sake of ego that I would want to wast my time waiting for you while you limp along in it?  I mean I can easily go find some noobs in the harbor to carry through quests if I'm feeling that charitable.

I'm not a fan of Asheras either.  He's too Turbine fanboyish for my tastes.  That aside, I'm surprised by your response.  For someone who seems to enjoy insulting and belittling him, it's a odd that you're coughing up an excuse and walking away from a golden opportunity to acquire legit evidence of you being right and him being wrong.

He issued the offer/challenge.  If you're as confident of your superiority as you claim, walk the walk and take him up on it.  It'll cost you an hour tops to run a few missions with your build vs his build.  Seems like it would be worth it.
  
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Re: The Great Terror
Reply #271 - Oct 20th, 2016 at 4:37pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Oct 20th, 2016 at 11:40am:
Not at work.

What good would posting a link to the source be, then?
  

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Re: The Great Terror
Reply #272 - Oct 20th, 2016 at 5:09pm
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Technomage wrote on Oct 20th, 2016 at 4:37pm:
What good would posting a link to the source be, then?


I didn't ask for a link.  Roll Eyes

I see it in the release notes now though.
  

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Re: The Great Terror
Reply #273 - Oct 20th, 2016 at 5:32pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Oct 20th, 2016 at 5:09pm:
I didn't ask for a link.  Roll Eyes

So it would have been ok if one of us just said, "Sev said so."?
  

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Re: The Great Terror
Reply #274 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 9:41am
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Steel wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 6:31am:
I've gotten quite a few PMs about terror builds in the last two weeks


Lies

  
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