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Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. (Read 9999 times)

Bones Stormreaver Piker Offline Posts: 598 Joined: Feb 7^th, 2014 Gender:	Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. Feb 24^th, 2016 at 11:56am	Print Post
	https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/472262-Data-Center-relocation?p=578770... Quote: We are currently targeting the first half of March for the data center move, although a more specific ETA will have to wait until we're ready to announce it. Well, there ya have it. I'm excited, aren't you??


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Wipe VoD Slasher Offline Posts: 1917 Joined: Mar 26^th, 2012 Gender:	Re: Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. Reply #1 - Feb 24^th, 2016 at 12:40pm	Print Post
	Damn, I played Lotro a lot. Makes me all nostalgic.


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Asheras Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline This is why we can't have nice things. Posts: 10230 Location: Ohio Joined: Jun 9^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. Reply #2 - Feb 24^th, 2016 at 12:45pm	Print Post
	Datacenter moves can be a real bitch. You find all sort of "short cuts" that need to be cleaned up.


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Flav Vault Frog Offline One Frog to Rule them All! Posts: 9961 Location: Land of the Frogs Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. Reply #3 - Feb 24^th, 2016 at 12:55pm	Print Post
	What does Nurse Ratchet sais before hitting ? Run, It's going to be... ( forgot the last bit ) I think it sums up.... months long for AC/AC2, several weeks of issues for LoTRO... DDO should fall somewhere in between... I need to update my traceroutes... just to know what has changed between the old datacenter and the new one. Oh and I'm already cringing, because it might break PyLOTRO and DDO-ML I don't want to go back to that stupid, slow and broken official launcher.

	Yes my avatar is an Hermine eating a Greenland Lemming for brunch.
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Durk The Deranged Offline I've got a secret! Posts: 705 Location: The Harbor Joined: May 15^th, 2012 Gender:	Re: Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. Reply #4 - Feb 24^th, 2016 at 12:55pm	Print Post
	I have no idea what to expect. I hope things are faster, with less lag. I can see the new center helping, especially with new physical equipment? Although my worry is that they will just move the old bloated VMs to new equipment.


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Flav Vault Frog Offline One Frog to Rule them All! Posts: 9961 Location: Land of the Frogs Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. Reply #5 - Feb 24^th, 2016 at 1:15pm	Print Post
	It's not VMs... And from what I've been able to gather, it's not really possible to put it on VMs. If they replace some 10 years old server hardware by a modern one, just the changes in memory, HDD and CPU will be felt. ( even if I'm convinced that the hardware is NOT 10 years old... it's still several years old )

	Yes my avatar is an Hermine eating a Greenland Lemming for brunch.
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[] Madame President Offline Posts: 10532 Joined: Oct 16^th, 2015	Re: Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. Reply #6 - Feb 24^th, 2016 at 1:16pm	Print Post
	Flav wrote on Feb 24^th, 2016 at 1:15pm: It's not VMs... And from what I've been able to gather, it's not really possible to put it on VMs. If they replace some 10 years old server hardware by a modern one, just the changes in memory, HDD and CPU will be felt. ( even if I'm convinced that the hardware is NOT 10 years old... it's still several years old ) Slavishly sucking Turbine's satanic cock at every opportunity; unbelievable.


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Asheras Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline This is why we can't have nice things. Posts: 10230 Location: Ohio Joined: Jun 9^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. Reply #7 - Feb 24^th, 2016 at 3:05pm	Print Post
	Flav wrote on Feb 24^th, 2016 at 1:15pm: It's not VMs... And from what I've been able to gather, it's not really possible to put it on VMs. If they replace some 10 years old server hardware by a modern one, just the changes in memory, HDD and CPU will be felt. ( even if I'm convinced that the hardware is NOT 10 years old... it's still several years old ) Any new hardware is going to perform better than any hardware that is older. However, without knowing if the app is CPU bound, I/O bound, etc, you can't make any estimate of the impact on performance.


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Digimonk Puppy Farmer Offline Posts: 1573 Joined: Apr 7^th, 2015	Re: Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. Reply #8 - Feb 24^th, 2016 at 6:37pm	Print Post
	Asheras wrote on Feb 24^th, 2016 at 3:05pm: Any new hardware is going to perform better than any hardware that is older.� However, without knowing if the app is CPU bound, I/O bound, etc, you can't make any estimate of the impact on performance.� Given that a lot of the on-demand lag scenarios involve rapid hits on large numbers of mobs at the same time and/or bugged, duplicated buffs/debuffs that have to be calculated as they interact with everything, I tend to suspect it more likely CPU/number crunching and/or memory bottlenecks. Disk IO bottlenecks would be indicated more by slow, laggy load times of instances and scripted spawns. Once an instance has been loaded into memory, disk IO should play a minimal part in lag as everything should be running from RAM.� Unless there is insufficient memory and the server has to swap memory to disk, which is still a RAM problem, not a disk IO problem really.
	« Last Edit: Feb 24^th, 2016 at 6:39pm by Digimonk »

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Asheras Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline This is why we can't have nice things. Posts: 10230 Location: Ohio Joined: Jun 9^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. Reply #9 - Feb 24^th, 2016 at 10:36pm	Print Post
	Digimonk wrote on Feb 24^th, 2016 at 6:37pm: Given that a lot of the on-demand lag scenarios involve rapid hits on large numbers of mobs at the same time and/or bugged, duplicated buffs/debuffs that have to be calculated as they interact with everything, I tend to suspect it more likely CPU/number crunching and/or memory bottlenecks. Disk IO bottlenecks would be indicated more by slow, laggy load times of instances and scripted spawns. Once an instance has been loaded into memory, disk IO should play a minimal part in lag as everything should be running from RAM.� Unless there is insufficient memory and the server has to swap memory to disk, which is still a RAM problem, not a disk IO problem really. I'm not disagreeing with your guess, but it is just that, a guess. It seems to me that CPU and RAM would be where the bottleneck is. Combined with network I/O and latency. Although a lot of the inside an instance stuff could be inefficient coding. Poorly written multi-instance handling might make even the best hardware look like a potato. But now I'm just speculating based on personal in game experience.


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PersonaNonGrata Shroud Slacker Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 1063 Joined: May 3^rd, 2015	Re: Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. Reply #10 - Feb 24^th, 2016 at 11:54pm	Print Post
	What about the behaviour when lag occurs - it only seems to affect players. The mobs move and hit just fine. Would that indicate it is more of a network/comms issue? Or is that likely just a client-server priority issue, where the server when under stress ignores/queues input from the clients?


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Flav Vault Frog Offline One Frog to Rule them All! Posts: 9961 Location: Land of the Frogs Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. Reply #11 - Feb 25^th, 2016 at 3:51am	Print Post
	PersonaNonGrata wrote on Feb 24^th, 2016 at 11:54pm: What about the behaviour when lag occurs - it only seems to affect players.� The mobs move and hit just fine. Would that indicate it is more of a network/comms issue? Or is that likely just a client-server priority issue, where the server when under stress ignores/queues input from the clients? It's not always the case. I agree that most of the time it is the case, but there's time when even the mob lags. Anyway, if it's new hardware, with new routers and a better connectivity ( one can dream ) is should solve at least some of the lag.

	Yes my avatar is an Hermine eating a Greenland Lemming for brunch.
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Meursault Horoluth Raider Offline I Love Freedom of Speech Posts: 2410 Location: Hartford, CT; USA Joined: Aug 22^nd, 2013 Gender:	Re: Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. Reply #12 - Feb 25^th, 2016 at 7:18am	Print Post
	Asheras wrote on Feb 24^th, 2016 at 10:36pm: I'm not disagreeing with your guess, but it is just that, a guess.� It seems to me that CPU and RAM would be where the bottleneck is.� Combined with network I/O and latency.� Although a lot of the inside an instance stuff could be inefficient coding.� Poorly written multi-instance handling might make even the best hardware look like a potato.� But now I'm just speculating based on personal in game experience.� That was my guess too - I think a major player in this is the O(N^2) scaling complexity problem for multi-entity interactions. They keep adding effects and modifiers, so a modest increase in effects or mobs adds a huge increase in calculational complexity. Auras, AoE bursts, pets, etc. all count as entities when you calculate interactions. They keep adding those, so a mob of 10 now takes as much calculation as a mob of 100 used to (example, not hard number).

	Turdbin, keep changing the DDO rules, because McDonalds sold over 200 billion hamburgers by changing the recipe for their Special Sauce every couple of months to keep interest up.
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Meursault Horoluth Raider Offline I Love Freedom of Speech Posts: 2410 Location: Hartford, CT; USA Joined: Aug 22^nd, 2013 Gender:	Re: Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. Reply #13 - Feb 25^th, 2016 at 7:25am	Print Post
	PersonaNonGrata wrote on Feb 24^th, 2016 at 11:54pm: What about the behaviour when lag occurs - it only seems to affect players.� The mobs move and hit just fine. Would that indicate it is more of a network/comms issue? Or is that likely just a client-server priority issue, where the server when under stress ignores/queues input from the clients? That's a good observation but I don't think it rules out a memory/cpu bound process. The server always considers itself the "reference" for position and direction of all objects, so it can't miss because of desync no matter where desync occurs. A CPU bound process that takes too long to report back to a client looks just as laggy as a network bound process that reports back promptly but isn't heard for a while. I don't mean I'm ruling out network bound, it's hard to say for sure, I'm only making an educated guess on the CPU/Memory bound. And the most likely explanation is that both contribute to the problem, since companies don't tend to wildly over engineer one component while starving the other.

	Turdbin, keep changing the DDO rules, because McDonalds sold over 200 billion hamburgers by changing the recipe for their Special Sauce every couple of months to keep interest up.
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Sailias Dragon Raider Offline Posts: 251 Joined: Nov 16^th, 2015	Re: Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. Reply #14 - Feb 25^th, 2016 at 11:08am	Print Post
	Looks like that rumor on g-land that it was this summer or sooner was right, good to know a certain someone is exactly who they claim to be.

	monk changes 2016 for president
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PersonaNonGrata Shroud Slacker Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 1063 Joined: May 3^rd, 2015	Re: Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. Reply #15 - Feb 25^th, 2016 at 5:10pm	Print Post
	Sailias wrote on Feb 25^th, 2016 at 11:08am: Looks like that rumor on g-land that it was this summer or sooner was right, good to know a certain someone is exactly who they claim to be. Could you be more obtuse Quinn? Is this like a secret communication to your fellow Ghallandians? Do you have a "Smoking Man" on Ghallanda and you're protecting his/her identity?
	« Last Edit: Feb 25^th, 2016 at 5:16pm by PersonaNonGrata »

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PersonaNonGrata Shroud Slacker Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 1063 Joined: May 3^rd, 2015	Re: Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. Reply #16 - Feb 25^th, 2016 at 5:15pm	Print Post
	Meursault wrote on Feb 25^th, 2016 at 7:18am: That was my guess too - I think a major player in this is the O(N^2) scaling complexity problem for multi-entity interactions. They keep adding effects and modifiers, so a modest increase in effects or mobs adds a huge increase in calculational complexity. Auras, AoE bursts, pets, etc. all count as entities when you calculate interactions. They keep adding those, so a mob of 10 now takes as much calculation as a mob of 100 used to (example, not hard number). This theory would be supported by the anecdotal reports of players regarding multiple Warlock auras and also Shroud blades being associated with lag. You can imagine the calculations required when there are twelve clients in a group of calcs along with all the Mobs, environment and other effects like spells and combat.


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Revaulting Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Posts: 10143 Location: Not in my pants Joined: Apr 3^rd, 2014 Gender:	Re: Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. Reply #17 - Feb 25^th, 2016 at 6:10pm	Print Post
	Flav wrote on Feb 24^th, 2016 at 12:55pm: Oh and I'm already cringing, because it might break PyLOTRO and DDO-ML I don't want to go back to that stupid, slow and broken official launcher. FUCK. I'll just stop playing, if that happens.

	Silence is golden, but I only get silver rolls.
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Asheras Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline This is why we can't have nice things. Posts: 10230 Location: Ohio Joined: Jun 9^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. Reply #18 - Feb 25^th, 2016 at 6:14pm	Print Post
	What's wrong with the official launcher?


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Meursault Horoluth Raider Offline I Love Freedom of Speech Posts: 2410 Location: Hartford, CT; USA Joined: Aug 22^nd, 2013 Gender:	Re: Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. Reply #19 - Feb 25^th, 2016 at 7:04pm	Print Post
	Asheras wrote on Feb 25^th, 2016 at 6:14pm: What's wrong with the official launcher? If they do it right, nothing. But, Turbine. If they have to edit their launcher to reach the new server, and make some other changes while they are in there, then maybe kablooey. Remember, this is the company that couldn't even get domain renewal right But if they just change their DNS entries, we should be fine, which I'm hoping for even if not exactly expecting

	Turdbin, keep changing the DDO rules, because McDonalds sold over 200 billion hamburgers by changing the recipe for their Special Sauce every couple of months to keep interest up.
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Sailias Dragon Raider Offline Posts: 251 Joined: Nov 16^th, 2015	Re: Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. Reply #20 - Feb 25^th, 2016 at 8:17pm	Print Post
	PersonaNonGrata wrote on Feb 25^th, 2016 at 5:10pm: Could you be more obtuse Quinn?� � Is this like a secret communication to your fellow Ghallandians? Do you have a "Smoking Man" on Ghallanda and you're protecting his/her identity? It's not like the person I'm talking about is a quiet person. Pretty sure if you're currently grouping publicly in epics you've met her.

	monk changes 2016 for president
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PersonaNonGrata Shroud Slacker Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 1063 Joined: May 3^rd, 2015	Re: Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. Reply #21 - Feb 25^th, 2016 at 8:19pm	Print Post
	Sailias wrote on Feb 25^th, 2016 at 8:17pm: It's not like the person I'm talking about is a quiet person. Pretty sure if you're currently grouping publicly in epics you've met her. On Lammania or Ghallanda? I'm not on either sorry, so I may not know this personality you speak of.


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Sailias Dragon Raider Offline Posts: 251 Joined: Nov 16^th, 2015	Re: Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. Reply #22 - Feb 25^th, 2016 at 8:23pm	Print Post
	PersonaNonGrata wrote on Feb 25^th, 2016 at 8:19pm: On Lammania or Ghallanda? I'm not on either sorry, so I may not know this personality you speak of. G-land. I don't want to call anyone out, though. Goal here is to not get people banned

	monk changes 2016 for president
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mystafyi Abbot Raider Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 836 Joined: Nov 10^th, 2010	Re: Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. Reply #23 - Feb 25^th, 2016 at 8:38pm	Print Post
	Flav wrote on Feb 25^th, 2016 at 3:51am: Anyway, if it's new hardware, with new routers and a better connectivity ( one can dream ) is should solve at least some of the lag.� Folks at AC/Lotro sure didn't like their moves and all the problems that still persist...


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nagus Ex Member	Re: Data Center Move ETA: First Half of March. Reply #24 - Feb 25^th, 2016 at 9:36pm	Print Post
	mystafyi wrote on Feb 25^th, 2016 at 8:38pm: Folks at AC/Lotro sure didn't like their moves and all the problems that still persist... Lotro still not 100%


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