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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) Fran still unable to do EE quests (Read 53202 times)
bob the builder
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Re: Fran still unable to do EE quests
Reply #100 - May 25th, 2016 at 3:24pm
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Then I logged on to a 1st Life Lvl 16 Cleric because I saw an E-BB Reaver's Fate up with two people in it {It had gone down by the time I'd alted and didn't come back up - That was the only character I had flagged and at the correct level}.
So I decided to do Orchard E-BBs instead - Put LFM up, did some banking, started Vol {Died 4 times in the damn traps but finally got the key before someone else joined me.}.
The two of us then finished Vol and ran Inferno, Flesh and GoP.
That Charisma Specced Cleric is now stuffed!
Lvl 17 and no more Undead Quests available!


Does your cleric not have Blade Barrier??!?!?!

Hell, that's the fucking easy button in all Heroic quests.  Maximize it and Empower it.  Craft yourself an Impulse item or find one on the AH.

You just run through quests and cast blade barrier and let everything run through it and watch it all die.

Doesn't work so well in Epics but you are asking about Heroics.

  
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Re: Fran still unable to do EE quests
Reply #101 - May 26th, 2016 at 2:05am
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FranOhmsford wrote on May 25th, 2016 at 1:19pm:
Do any of you have any idea of just how much information there is to keep track of in this game?

Every time I get used to one system the Devs go ahead and rip it apart!


  
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Frank
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Re: Fran still unable to do EE quests
Reply #102 - May 26th, 2016 at 2:51am
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bob the builder wrote on May 25th, 2016 at 3:24pm:
Does your cleric not have Blade Barrier??!?!?!

Hell, that's the fucking easy button in all Heroic quests.  Maximize it and Empower it.  Craft yourself an Impulse item or find one on the AH.

You just run through quests and cast blade barrier and let everything run through it and watch it all die.

Doesn't work so well in Epics but you are asking about Heroics.



You missed the part where this "Cleric" is Charisma focused.  Specialized to Turn Undead, one of the most useless mechanics in the game unless it's being spent for some other purpose.  Except he actually built it for turning undead.  And so no doubt it can't take Maximize and Empower because it has instead Extra Turning and Improved Turning.  And not enough mana to support casting multiple BBs anyway because a higher Cha than Wis.
  

No, let me be Frank.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 8th, 2016 at 12:39pm:
I've had multiple RoSS rot just from doing the explorer points in Sands across multiple lives since it is exclusive.


Smart players know how to use buyback.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 1:58pm:
I will not chone.

I did what I did intentionally and while my primary purpose was not to annoy the other Vaulties, I acknowledge that it was a side effect.


Smart people don't elicit "side effects."  They understand in advance the consequences of their actions.
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nowAvaultie
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Re: Fran still unable to do EE quests
Reply #103 - May 26th, 2016 at 7:12am
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FranOhmsford wrote on May 25th, 2016 at 1:19pm:
Do any of you have any idea of just how much information there is to keep track of in this game?

Yes. And this is why I said what I did. It wasn't a personal attack, even though you apparently took it as such. Like I said, people's minds work differently. Your mind is clearly not good at memorization and organizing information (without writing things down or using some kind of infographic). There's no shame in it.

Quote:
Every time I get used to one system the Devs go ahead and rip it apart!
Lvl 20 Cap - MotU and Destinies!
E-BB changing how the game is played!
Champions being added!
Random Loot being changed beyond recognition!
Lvl 28-30 {25-28 wasn't a big change on its own} and the rearranging of xp per level + the addition of much more xp being required!

No matter how bad you are at memorizing and learning, some of these are simply terrible examples. "MotU and Destinies"? Really? I can't see how an expansion pack qualifies as a "system" or constitutes a "tearing apart" of another system. Epic Destinies are a type of system, I suppose, but the destinies themselves are very straight-forward. The confusion lay in the Twist of Fate points/slots. And you've had several years to learn these "systems".

Champions are a "system" for you? And what system did the addition of champions "tear apart"? How hard is it to learn "Kill the guy with the crown first; kill the spell casters second; kill everything else" as compared to "Kill the spell casters first; kill everything else"?

"rearraging of xp per level" was a big change for you? Really? This threw your world into anarchy? I'm not buying it. All you have to do is look at your character sheet to see how much experience you need to reach the next level. There is no learning involved. It's still "Look at the experience bar and see if it's full" or "Talk to the trainer/Fatespinner to see if you can level up". Yep. TONS of learning involved there!

Quote:
Each time the Cap goes up I've just started on the previous cap -
I had one character at Lvl 20 when MotU came out and one TRd.
I had one character at Lvl 25 when cap went to 28 and a handful TRd.
I had one character at Lvl 28 when cap went to 30 and an absolute tonne TRd.
I now have two characters at Lvl 30 but one of them will be TRd very soon and the other {my Warlock} is being left on the backburner while I do TRs/ERs on my mains. {Because my Warlock was never meant to be a main and is in a position where I don't really need to TR or ER her. I just use her to farm seeds!}.

Do you really think you're special here? Do you really think you're the only one who had characters at various levels when the level cap was raised? Spare me. It's shit like this that makes me want to rip you a new asshole. So far, I'm managing to continue to restrain myself.


Quote:
Last night I logged back on to Cannith and noticed one character was 25k away from 20 {Sylveria 3rd Life Drow Arti 12/Rogue 7 with one Rogue and one Druid Past Life}.
I looked at the Compendium and saw she hadn't done any of the newer quests yet so put up an LFM for Multitude of Menace 16-19.
I started that quest solo and dear Lord with no AoEs worth anything it took forever to kill each mob one at a time before others started joining.
Kite Fest!

Yes, well, if you would actually take the advice being offered, your characters wouldn't suck as much.

Quote:
Archons onward has been another major change in gameplay where seemingly every new quest requires AoEs!
IPS isn't much help because the mobs keep moving around each other and don't line up.

That character will be TRd again ASAP to get more Arti lives before going back to Rogue Mech.

Completely non-sequitur and is the perfect example of the point I made in the post you quoted. What the fuck does getting more artificer past lives have anything to do with being a rogue mechanic? Here, I'll give you a hint: NOT ONE FUCKING THING. You really need +3 UMD (+1 UMD per artificer past life) on a rogue mechanic? Really? Cause I don't and I have a level 29 rogue mechanic who's had enough UMD for everything important since 16th level - and that rogue has ZERO artificer past lives. (Come to think of it, the only character I have with artificer past lives is my artificer.) You want to know what would actually help a rogue mechanic? Three ranger past lives for +6 ranged damage (bows/crossbows). Three paladin past lives for +15% heal amp. Three monk past lives for +3 damage with every weapon. Maybe even three fighter past lives if you feel you need the +3 to attack and +3 to tactics DC's (stun, trip, etc). Three each of the Iconic races past lives would help (and would help basically every build). Even three barbarian past lives for the +30 hp.

Duddits, past lives aren't that hard to figure out. Go look shit up on the wiki to see what you get for each kind of past life, then think about what you want to do with your character and what you'll face, and then evaluate each past life benefit to see if it actually benefits your character.

Quote:
That Charisma Specced Cleric is now stuffed!

I don't even know what this means. But if you're maxing charisma, YOU'RE DOING IT FUCKING WRONG.

Quote:
Lvl 17 and no more Undead Quests available!

Really? You're never going to do any quests on that character that aren't filled with undead? Then why did you do Fleshmaker's Laboratory? There are almost no undead in there. And you realize Inferno of the Damned is only half undead (at best), right?

Quote:
Can't Solo ANYTHING on Elite at that Level on that Character - Even Orchard would have been nasty as Flesh and GoP would have been impossible alone and I died in Inferno.

Probably because your cleric has the melee ability of a wet noodle.

Quote:
Vol was literally the only one I could solo! {And even then I had to accept the guaranteed trap deaths!}.

You know, when you're looking at predictable trap deaths like that, you pop a hireling that can cast Raise Dead, Resurrection, or True Resurrection, then park them at a safe place within running distance from where you expect to die, and put them on passive. Next, you go get yourself killed, run back and have the hireling cast raise on you, then run to the other side of the trap before taking the raise. Even you should know how to do this by now.


Quote:
{My Monk...Well Ftr/Monk right now can't contribute in a group because it takes him so long to kill anything and has ZERO AoEs!}

If your fighter/monk can hardly kill anything, then you've royally fucked up your build.

Quote:
I wish the Devs would fix EIN - Either remove the cooldown or remove the timer we don't need BOTH!

And if EIN is about the only thing you have in your bag that can kill things, you're a worse player than I thought.
« Last Edit: May 26th, 2016 at 7:14am by nowAvaultie »  

OldCoaly wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 11:27am:
If one of those types of weapons isn't "wraps", then it's a non-starter for Fran.
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Re: Fran still unable to do EE quests
Reply #104 - May 26th, 2016 at 10:17am
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i wish the devs would fix EIN


once again, those with no fucking idea about the game declaring that things are broken and offering 'solutions' to problems that dont exist in a system we've verified they know nothing about

keep trying to sabotage ddo, fran, you are this games greatest troll
  

͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊͊DISCLAIMER: This post is provided �as is� for informational purposes only. The Department of Vault
Security (DVS) does not provide any warranties of any kind regarding any information contained within. DVS
does not endorse any commercial product or service referenced in this post or otherwise.ďżźďżź
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Re: Fran still unable to do EE quests
Reply #105 - May 27th, 2016 at 9:00am
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nowAvaultie wrote on May 26th, 2016 at 7:12am:
What the fuck does getting more artificer past lives have anything to do with being a rogue mechanic? Here, I'll give you a hint: NOT ONE FUCKING THING. You really need +3 UMD (+1 UMD per artificer past life) on a rogue mechanic?

To paladin Fran for just a brief second, the +3 to all Int skills is pretty handy for a Rogue.  My lowby rogue has to play the equipment shuffle to find and then disarm/unlock stuff when running underlevel in heroic elites, and an untyped +3 for Search and Disable would be very welcome.

But that's a quality of life thing, since because I'm running a Mechanic even w/o any past lives I can run underlevel in heroic elites.

But back to Fran bashing, all that other stuff you said was spot on.    Tongue
  

No, let me be Frank.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 8th, 2016 at 12:39pm:
I've had multiple RoSS rot just from doing the explorer points in Sands across multiple lives since it is exclusive.


Smart players know how to use buyback.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 1:58pm:
I will not chone.

I did what I did intentionally and while my primary purpose was not to annoy the other Vaulties, I acknowledge that it was a side effect.


Smart people don't elicit "side effects."  They understand in advance the consequences of their actions.
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Re: Fran still unable to do EE quests
Reply #106 - May 27th, 2016 at 9:40am
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nowAvaultie wrote on May 26th, 2016 at 7:12am:
No matter how bad you are at memorizing and learning, some of these are simply terrible examples. "MotU and Destinies"? Really? I can't see how an expansion pack qualifies as a "system" or constitutes a "tearing apart" of another system.

I assume he was referring to the armor class and to-hit change or that all of the old epic quests had been split into EN/EH/EE.
  
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Re: Fran still unable to do EE quests
Reply #107 - May 27th, 2016 at 10:34am
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apep wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 9:40am:
I assume he was referring to the armor class and to-hit change or that all of the old epic quests had been split into EN/EH/EE.

Then he should be specific, rather than complaining about an entire pack's worth of changes that are not related to his complaint. We're not fucking omniscient.
  

OldCoaly wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 11:27am:
If one of those types of weapons isn't "wraps", then it's a non-starter for Fran.
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Re: Fran still unable to do EE quests
Reply #108 - May 27th, 2016 at 10:42am
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Frank wrote on May 26th, 2016 at 2:51am:
You missed the part where this "Cleric" is Charisma focused.  Specialized to Turn Undead, one of the most useless mechanics in the game unless it's being spent for some other purpose.  Except he actually built it for turning undead.  And so no doubt it can't take Maximize and Empower because it has instead Extra Turning and Improved Turning.  And not enough mana to support casting multiple BBs anyway because a higher Cha than Wis.


I guess I did miss that.   So essentially he is complaining that he made a character that is ONLY good at turning undead and useless for everything else, but is blaming Turbine for not creating enough quests for his ultra-specialized build to solo on elite for him to level up.

C'mon Fran... even you have to see the absurdity of your complaint.

If you want to build ultra-specific and/or flavor builds, then you are going to need to accept the limitations of those.  You are going to need to group to level and not blame Turbine for not catering to your whimsical fancies when creating a character.


  
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Re: Fran still unable to do EE quests
Reply #109 - May 27th, 2016 at 11:13am
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bob the builder wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 10:42am:
C'mon Fran... even you have to see the absurdity of your complaint.

But that's just it.  He doesn't realize just how feeble a turn undead cleric is.  He has a post on the ddoboards asking for help making a turn undead specced paladin, ferchrissake.  That was a non-starter even in PnP D&D.

And once made, he has trouble understanding why it fails to perform.

Fran, read this:
Cha is good for Divine Might on either a cleric or paladin.  That's about it.  Saves on paladins, a few skills including UMD, and extra turns.  Which again are better spent on other channel divinity uses than turn undead.

  

No, let me be Frank.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 8th, 2016 at 12:39pm:
I've had multiple RoSS rot just from doing the explorer points in Sands across multiple lives since it is exclusive.


Smart players know how to use buyback.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 1:58pm:
I will not chone.

I did what I did intentionally and while my primary purpose was not to annoy the other Vaulties, I acknowledge that it was a side effect.


Smart people don't elicit "side effects."  They understand in advance the consequences of their actions.
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Re: Fran still unable to do EE quests
Reply #110 - May 27th, 2016 at 11:21am
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Frank wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 11:13am:
Fran, read this:
Cha is good for Divine Might on either a cleric or paladin.  That's about it.  Saves on paladins, a few skills including UMD, and extra turns.  Which again are better spent on other channel divinity uses than turn undead.


I just had to quote that because it's so true. Though, if he wanted to create a max-cha paladin, make a PDK and swap out the one fighter level. Of course, then he's stuck using one of four types of weapons. Could be interesting,  though.
  

OldCoaly wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 11:27am:
If one of those types of weapons isn't "wraps", then it's a non-starter for Fran.
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Re: Fran still unable to do EE quests
Reply #111 - May 27th, 2016 at 11:27am
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nowAvaultie wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 11:21am:
Though, if he wanted to create a max-cha paladin, make a PDK and swap out the one fighter level. Of course, then he's stuck using one of four types of weapons. Could be interesting,  though.


If one of those types of weapons isn't "wraps", then it's a non-starter for Fran.
  

Groo The Wanderer wrote on Sep 8th, 2013 at 10:43pm:
they will probably congratulate themselves on how long they "kept it going" never able to see that it could have easily managed to keep itself going for far longer if they had just meddled far less drastically and with some semblance of an actual gameplan.
Darth Anonymous wrote on Feb 1st, 2014 at 1:11pm:
Hearing something has "merit" but we don't have "time" kind of says everything about how Turbine works on things.
eighnuss wrote on May 27th, 2014 at 12:52pm:
everyone but turbine knows that we are sad they are destroying our game
majmalphunktion wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 12:12am:
I don't make the game, I just get tested what they build. Sorry you are not happy.
Skoodge wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 6:54am:
DDO is easy to summarize - the greatest game to suck the most ass.
GooFY wrote on Mar 2nd, 2015 at 5:36pm:
Turbine - So incompetent that we are skeptical when they report their own incompetence.  
Meursault wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 8:10pm:
Other companies will settle for shitting out garbage, Turdbin actually prefers to. Especially if they can get us to buy it, that just cracks them up.
Meursault wrote on Nov 12th, 2015 at 2:50pm:
Breaking something and putting it back together isn't as good as not breaking it to begin with, it's not even close.
palmer01 wrote on Nov 20th, 2015 at 9:05am:
Devs do not care what players want - they already have an agenda and give out token gestures so the paladins can feel worthy.
PersonaNonGrata wrote on Oct 4th, 2016 at 1:24am:
The DDO devs aren't motivated by a positive user experience.

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Re: Fran still unable to do EE quests
Reply #112 - May 27th, 2016 at 2:30pm
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OldCoaly wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 11:27am:
If one of those types of weapons isn't "wraps", then it's a non-starter for Fran.

But you're just describing Fran: a non-starter.
  

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Re: Fran still unable to do EE quests
Reply #113 - May 29th, 2016 at 2:30am
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nowAvaultie wrote on May 26th, 2016 at 7:12am:
Yes. And this is why I said what I did. It wasn't a personal attack, even though you apparently took it as such. Like I said, people's minds work differently. Your mind is clearly not good at memorization and organizing information (without writing things down or using some kind of infographic). There's no shame in it.


I know you weren't making a deliberate personal attack - It's just the wording you used wasn't specific and a number of other people have made deliberate personal attacks along those lines.

I just wanted to clarify the issue.

nowAvaultie wrote on May 26th, 2016 at 7:12am:
No matter how bad you are at memorizing and learning, some of these are simply terrible examples. "MotU and Destinies"? Really? I can't see how an expansion pack qualifies as a "system" or constitutes a "tearing apart" of another system. Epic Destinies are a type of system, I suppose, but the destinies themselves are very straight-forward. The confusion lay in the Twist of Fate points/slots. And you've had several years to learn these "systems".


For me Destinies are anything but straightforward!

The amount of stacking of abilities and take this that looks utterly useless because it makes some other thing that also looks utterly useless actually useful.

The number of activated abilities, cooldown timers and stacks {I really hate the Blitz system!}.

And remember that I'm still over multiple characters running through Destinies to build them up {a lot of the time on a Class or Build that doesn't gain much from that Destiny and I don't know the perfect set up for any of them yet!


As for MotU - The Epic System being changed to E/H/N, 5, 8 and now 10 extra levels, A tonne more Feats to learn, Gear that used to be amazing now pretty much useless etc.!
That to me is a "system change" though maybe not the single definition of system that you're thinking of {shall we say a paradigm change in the game itself rather than just a system of the game}.

nowAvaultie wrote on May 26th, 2016 at 7:12am:
Champions are a "system" for you? And what system did the addition of champions "tear apart"? How hard is it to learn "Kill the guy with the crown first; kill the spell casters second; kill everything else" as compared to "Kill the spell casters first; kill everything else"?


Actually a lot of the time it's still kill casters first!
The Champs are far more dangerous if that fuckin' caster hits you with a Disco Ball!

What Champs did was up the difficulty of the game! Apart from widening the gap between Normal and Hard - which isn't a problem in Heroics because in the main I can solo Elite but is a problem in Epics because all of my characters when Champs came out were barely capable in EHs as was and Champs set me back!

I've got used to Champs now but they did represent a big change!

nowAvaultie wrote on May 26th, 2016 at 7:12am:
"rearraging of xp per level" was a big change for you? Really? This threw your world into anarchy? I'm not buying it. All you have to do is look at your character sheet to see how much experience you need to reach the next level. There is no learning involved. It's still "Look at the experience bar and see if it's full" or "Talk to the trainer/Fatespinner to see if you can level up". Yep. TONS of learning involved there!


I wasn't talking about it like that but about the sheer amount of extra xp needed!

Remember that when MotU came out I had exactly one character that had TRd even once! And one more Character at Lvl 20! Both on different Servers!

I didn't have a bunch of Past Lives already earned!

I wasn't ready to blast through a bunch of ERs when cap was 25 either and had only done maybe 5 over 3 characters at cap 28!

I'm not just way behind on TRs anymore, I'm way behind on ERs too!

And the amount of xp required for me to get them now {well 2 million extra per ER is a lot!}.

nowAvaultie wrote on May 26th, 2016 at 7:12am:
Do you really think you're special here? Do you really think you're the only one who had characters at various levels when the level cap was raised? Spare me. It's shit like this that makes me want to rip you a new asshole. So far, I'm managing to continue to restrain myself.


Good job there on restraining yourself but think about what you just wrote....

No I don't think I'm the only one - In fact I've said over and over again that I'm not alone in this!

I still see plenty of people in quests with characters objectively weaker than my own and no they aren't all complete newbies who are going to race past me either - Some have been playing at least as long as I have!

nowAvaultie wrote on May 26th, 2016 at 7:12am:
Yes, well, if you would actually take the advice being offered, your characters wouldn't suck as much.


I've taken plenty of advice over the years but when that advice = the character you want to play sucks, play this instead well would you take that advice?

nowAvaultie wrote on May 26th, 2016 at 7:12am:
Completely non-sequitur and is the perfect example of the point I made in the post you quoted. What the fuck does getting more artificer past lives have anything to do with being a rogue mechanic? Here, I'll give you a hint: NOT ONE FUCKING THING. You really need +3 UMD (+1 UMD per artificer past life) on a rogue mechanic? Really? Cause I don't and I have a level 29 rogue mechanic who's had enough UMD for everything important since 16th level - and that rogue has ZERO artificer past lives. (Come to think of it, the only character I have with artificer past lives is my artificer.) You want to know what would actually help a rogue mechanic? Three ranger past lives for +6 ranged damage (bows/crossbows). Three paladin past lives for +15% heal amp. Three monk past lives for +3 damage with every weapon. Maybe even three fighter past lives if you feel you need the +3 to attack and +3 to tactics DC's (stun, trip, etc). Three each of the Iconic races past lives would help (and would help basically every build). Even three barbarian past lives for the +30 hp.


I was playing a X-Bow build so was getting the Arti Lives done early {I did the Druid life with my free +20 Heart to get it out the way}.
I take your point about Ranger, Paladin and Monk {Ftr/Rog Mech shouldn't be too difficult either} and with Arti in the doldrums right now {My 18/2 Arti/Rogue Crafter is fucking atrocious - Lvl 20 and can barely make it through EH VoN 3!} I might leave the other Arti lives on my Rogue Mech for a bit in favour of Ranger {A Repeater Build to work with would be nice?}.

nowAvaultie wrote on May 26th, 2016 at 7:12am:
Duddits, past lives aren't that hard to figure out. Go look shit up on the wiki to see what you get for each kind of past life, then think about what you want to do with your character and what you'll face, and then evaluate each past life benefit to see if it actually benefits your character.


I've done that so many times but I do have trouble memorizing stuff and I find I take more in from asking these questions on the forums than from reading the wiki.

nowAvaultie wrote on May 26th, 2016 at 7:12am:
I don't even know what this means. But if you're maxing charisma, YOU'RE DOING IT FUCKING WRONG.


See - This is the sort of advice I'm simply not going to take!

Why shouldn't I be able to make a Turn Specced Cleric? I know full well the Devs messed up Turning but if I can make a Full Cha Cleric that can cope up to Lvl 16 as bad as I am surely you could make one that could cope at Lvl 30!

nowAvaultie wrote on May 26th, 2016 at 7:12am:
Really? You're never going to do any quests on that character that aren't filled with undead? Then why did you do Fleshmaker's Laboratory? There are almost no undead in there. And you realize Inferno of the Damned is only half undead (at best), right?


I do Fleshmakers and Inferno for the simple reason that putting up an LFM for Orchard E-BB gets more joiners than putting up an LFM for Vol+GoP Only! {and of course it means I only have to do Vol+GoP once - I don't like repeating quests}.

nowAvaultie wrote on May 26th, 2016 at 7:12am:
Probably because your cleric has the melee ability of a wet noodle.


I don't dispute this!

For me a Cleric = Sword+Board - If I wanted to play a Barbarian I'd play a Barbarian, If I wanted to play a Monk I'd play a Monk! {I have multiple Barbarians and Monks just as I have multiple Clerics!}.

I've said over and over again that I'm not capable of EEs and not looking to run EEs any time soon - I'm not getting in your way in your EE runs or causing you any problems!

I know full well where I am and have even given up on my EE Sagas despite still needing another 18 million+ renown to get my Guild to Lvl 150!

nowAvaultie wrote on May 26th, 2016 at 7:12am:
You know, when you're looking at predictable trap deaths like that, you pop a hireling that can cast Raise Dead, Resurrection, or True Resurrection, then park them at a safe place within running distance from where you expect to die, and put them on passive. Next, you go get yourself killed, run back and have the hireling cast raise on you, then run to the other side of the trap before taking the raise. Even you should know how to do this by now.


It's still annoying having to die and lose 10% xp in Vol and cargo hold buffs right at the start of the chain!

nowAvaultie wrote on May 26th, 2016 at 7:12am:
If your fighter/monk can hardly kill anything, then you've royally fucked up your build.


He can kill stuff fine - It just takes forever! And if he gets 3 or more mobs on him in EE he's going to die first!

This is one of only two characters I have at this time who is actually on the cusp of being EE capable.

nowAvaultie wrote on May 26th, 2016 at 7:12am:
And if EIN is about the only thing you have in your bag that can kill things, you're a worse player than I thought.


It's the only AOE!

Not the only THING!

What other AoEs could I have as a Wraps Monk {No I'm not counting Whirlwind Attack which he does have}.

  

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Re: Fran still unable to do EE quests
Reply #114 - May 29th, 2016 at 2:33am
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OldCoaly wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 11:27am:
If one of those types of weapons isn't "wraps", then it's a non-starter for Fran.


Oh Puhlease!

You do realise the wraps thing was about a different character!

My Monk uses Wraps!

My Cleric {well the one talked about in this thread} is currently and preferably will remain Sword+Board!

My Bladeforged Paladins use Greatswords - They all have at least a SoS now since the Anniversary.

My Acrobats use Staves!

My Mechs and Artis use Repeaters!

And so on!
  

Main Characters by Server - Cannith Jelina, Sylveria, Enochpagett, Lieuk, Larystessian, Molineux. Sarlona Keltenn, Franq, Athiina, Nyszsa, Curleag, Nalpheyn. Khyber Tynecastle, Athenion, Argo Clievelund, Bjorkalina, G-Land Hassannavid, Tannadice.
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Re: Fran still unable to do EE quests
Reply #115 - May 29th, 2016 at 2:42am
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bob the builder wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 10:42am:
I guess I did miss that.   So essentially he is complaining that he made a character that is ONLY good at turning undead and useless for everything else, but is blaming Turbine for not creating enough quests for his ultra-specialized build to solo on elite for him to level up.

C'mon Fran... even you have to see the absurdity of your complaint.

If you want to build ultra-specific and/or flavor builds, then you are going to need to accept the limitations of those.  You are going to need to group to level and not blame Turbine for not catering to your whimsical fancies when creating a character.




I think people are reading more into things than what I'm actually saying.

I am fully aware that a Charisma Specced TU S+B Cleric is a Flavour Build currently.

NOTE CURRENTLY!

I am surely allowed to ask for the Devs to make this D&D standard Cleric actually viable in DDO?

I'm not asking for it to be the new ES Lock! {though that would be nice - ES Lock plays against everything how I want my Clerics to play just against specifically Undead!}.

It's not a whimsical fantasy either - TU and S+B {well ok Mace and Board} was the done way to play Clerics in PnP!

When you had just 3 Lvl 1 Spell Slots at Lvl 1 {if you had 18 Wis that is} you damn well took 3x Cure Light and nothing else!


I want to play a Cleric!
NOT A Wizard or Sorc!
Not a Barbarian with Buffs and Blade Barrier!
NOT a Monk!
A CLERIC!

Is that so much to ask?



The S+B thing can probably be done with 5 Paladin Sacred Defender and Vanguard but TU is bad enough on Pure Cleric and utterly useless with any sort of Multiclassing!
« Last Edit: May 29th, 2016 at 2:43am by FranOhmsford »  

Main Characters by Server - Cannith Jelina, Sylveria, Enochpagett, Lieuk, Larystessian, Molineux. Sarlona Keltenn, Franq, Athiina, Nyszsa, Curleag, Nalpheyn. Khyber Tynecastle, Athenion, Argo Clievelund, Bjorkalina, G-Land Hassannavid, Tannadice.
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Re: Fran still unable to do EE quests
Reply #116 - May 29th, 2016 at 4:08am
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FranOhmsford wrote on May 29th, 2016 at 2:30am:
6 periods
2 question marks
2 ellipses
32 exclamation points

and 11 sets of French brackets

  
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Re: Fran still unable to do EE quests
Reply #117 - May 29th, 2016 at 5:01am
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FranOhmsford wrote on May 29th, 2016 at 2:42am:
I am fully aware that a Charisma Specced TU S+B Cleric is a Flavour Build currently.

NOTE CURRENTLY!

I am surely allowed to ask for the Devs to make this D&D standard Cleric actually viable in DDO?

Sure, you can ask.  In the meantime be aware that you are playing a gimped build.  It's just that simple.

Quote:
It's not a whimsical fantasy either - TU and S+B {well ok Mace and Board} was the done way to play Clerics in PnP!

When you had just 3 Lvl 1 Spell Slots at Lvl 1 {if you had 18 Wis that is} you damn well took 3x Cure Light and nothing else!

Even in 3.5 Turn Undead was a broken mechanic.  You had to apply your results to the undead closest to you, and so you got to waste, yes waste, your Turn Undead results against the mass of low level undead that your party could mop up with ease anyway.


Quote:
I want to play a Cleric!
NOT A Wizard or Sorc!

You don't understand how a cleric is played.  That is the problem.  Once you understand that, you might start to figure things out.  Even in PnP 3.5 Turn Undead was a poor mechanic.

I have a saying that has served me well in game design, play testing, etc.  Play to the victory conditions.  When Turn Undead is demonstrably broken, playing to the victory conditions does not include a build that tries and fails to make a broken mechanic work.  It does not work, so move on to things that do work.

At best, Turn Undead is a situational advantage.  You can turn/destroy a lot of undeads, yay!  But once you see the actual numbers, you should come to realize that it just isn't going to work for you.  3 > 1.  Turn Undead is kinda ok in Heroics, if you are running on Normal.  Run under level and/or on epic and it fails more often than it works.  So it has a very niche application in situations where it isn't really needed to contribute to the win.  This is the very definition of a poor mechanic that no one ought to take.
  

No, let me be Frank.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 8th, 2016 at 12:39pm:
I've had multiple RoSS rot just from doing the explorer points in Sands across multiple lives since it is exclusive.


Smart players know how to use buyback.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 1:58pm:
I will not chone.

I did what I did intentionally and while my primary purpose was not to annoy the other Vaulties, I acknowledge that it was a side effect.


Smart people don't elicit "side effects."  They understand in advance the consequences of their actions.
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Re: Fran still unable to do EE quests
Reply #118 - May 29th, 2016 at 7:25am
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FranOhmsford wrote on May 29th, 2016 at 2:33am:
Oh Puhlease!

You do realise the wraps thing was about a different character!

My Monk uses Wraps!

My Cleric {well the one talked about in this thread} is currently and preferably will remain Sword+Board!

My Bladeforged Paladins use Greatswords - They all have at least a SoS now since the Anniversary.

My Acrobats use Staves!

My Mechs and Artis use Repeaters!

And so on!


"Wraps" symbolize your relentless pursuit to pull what already works well down to the level of what is known and documented to suck.

Really really wanting turn based clerics to not suck is a fool's errand and has been since 2006. 

When you learn to stop chasing your tail, you'll be much less frustrated.
  

Groo The Wanderer wrote on Sep 8th, 2013 at 10:43pm:
they will probably congratulate themselves on how long they "kept it going" never able to see that it could have easily managed to keep itself going for far longer if they had just meddled far less drastically and with some semblance of an actual gameplan.
Darth Anonymous wrote on Feb 1st, 2014 at 1:11pm:
Hearing something has "merit" but we don't have "time" kind of says everything about how Turbine works on things.
eighnuss wrote on May 27th, 2014 at 12:52pm:
everyone but turbine knows that we are sad they are destroying our game
majmalphunktion wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 12:12am:
I don't make the game, I just get tested what they build. Sorry you are not happy.
Skoodge wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 6:54am:
DDO is easy to summarize - the greatest game to suck the most ass.
GooFY wrote on Mar 2nd, 2015 at 5:36pm:
Turbine - So incompetent that we are skeptical when they report their own incompetence.  
Meursault wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 8:10pm:
Other companies will settle for shitting out garbage, Turdbin actually prefers to. Especially if they can get us to buy it, that just cracks them up.
Meursault wrote on Nov 12th, 2015 at 2:50pm:
Breaking something and putting it back together isn't as good as not breaking it to begin with, it's not even close.
palmer01 wrote on Nov 20th, 2015 at 9:05am:
Devs do not care what players want - they already have an agenda and give out token gestures so the paladins can feel worthy.
PersonaNonGrata wrote on Oct 4th, 2016 at 1:24am:
The DDO devs aren't motivated by a positive user experience.

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Re: Fran still unable to do EE quests
Reply #119 - May 29th, 2016 at 8:28am
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OldCoaly wrote on May 29th, 2016 at 7:25am:
"Wraps" symbolize your relentless pursuit to pull what already works well down to the level of what is known and documented to suck.

Really really wanting turn based clerics to not suck is a fool's errand and has been since 2006. 

When you learn to stop chasing your tail, you'll be much less frustrated.


Uhm sorry to bring it up, but we have a turn based cleric tank who makes le raids a joke and not a kite fest.
At least get your facts straight before attacking, yo
  
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Re: Fran still unable to do EE quests
Reply #120 - May 29th, 2016 at 9:22am
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Lelouch wrote on May 29th, 2016 at 8:28am:
Uhm sorry to bring it up, but we have a turn based cleric tank who makes le raids a joke and not a kite fest.
At least get your facts straight before attacking, yo

Yo.  [pops collar]  Yo.  You mighty have a cleric who doesn't suck, but I guarantee ya [pops collar] that he sucks next to someone who knows what he is doing, yo.
  

No, let me be Frank.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 8th, 2016 at 12:39pm:
I've had multiple RoSS rot just from doing the explorer points in Sands across multiple lives since it is exclusive.


Smart players know how to use buyback.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 1:58pm:
I will not chone.

I did what I did intentionally and while my primary purpose was not to annoy the other Vaulties, I acknowledge that it was a side effect.


Smart people don't elicit "side effects."  They understand in advance the consequences of their actions.
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Re: Fran still unable to do EE quests
Reply #121 - May 29th, 2016 at 11:25am
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Lelouch wrote on May 29th, 2016 at 8:28am:
Uhm sorry to bring it up, but we have a turn based cleric tank who makes le raids a joke and not a kite fest.
At least get your facts straight before attacking, yo


Give the build to Fran. He'll still insist that you're doing it wrong.
  

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Re: Fran still unable to do EE quests
Reply #122 - May 29th, 2016 at 11:39am
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5 Foot Step wrote on May 29th, 2016 at 11:25am:
Give the build to Fran. He'll still insist that you're doing it wrong.

Smiley Smiley Smiley
  

Groo The Wanderer wrote on Sep 8th, 2013 at 10:43pm:
they will probably congratulate themselves on how long they "kept it going" never able to see that it could have easily managed to keep itself going for far longer if they had just meddled far less drastically and with some semblance of an actual gameplan.
Darth Anonymous wrote on Feb 1st, 2014 at 1:11pm:
Hearing something has "merit" but we don't have "time" kind of says everything about how Turbine works on things.
eighnuss wrote on May 27th, 2014 at 12:52pm:
everyone but turbine knows that we are sad they are destroying our game
majmalphunktion wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 12:12am:
I don't make the game, I just get tested what they build. Sorry you are not happy.
Skoodge wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 6:54am:
DDO is easy to summarize - the greatest game to suck the most ass.
GooFY wrote on Mar 2nd, 2015 at 5:36pm:
Turbine - So incompetent that we are skeptical when they report their own incompetence.  
Meursault wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 8:10pm:
Other companies will settle for shitting out garbage, Turdbin actually prefers to. Especially if they can get us to buy it, that just cracks them up.
Meursault wrote on Nov 12th, 2015 at 2:50pm:
Breaking something and putting it back together isn't as good as not breaking it to begin with, it's not even close.
palmer01 wrote on Nov 20th, 2015 at 9:05am:
Devs do not care what players want - they already have an agenda and give out token gestures so the paladins can feel worthy.
PersonaNonGrata wrote on Oct 4th, 2016 at 1:24am:
The DDO devs aren't motivated by a positive user experience.

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Re: Fran still unable to do EE quests
Reply #123 - May 29th, 2016 at 6:18pm
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platfarmchink wrote on May 29th, 2016 at 4:08am:


And that was just the first paragraph....
  
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Re: Fran still unable to do EE quests
Reply #124 - May 29th, 2016 at 6:22pm
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Lelouch wrote on May 29th, 2016 at 8:28am:
Uhm sorry to bring it up, but we have a turn based cleric tank who makes le raids a joke and not a kite fest.
At least get your facts straight before attacking, yo


Is Vic no longer a FvS then?

Cos I don't believe either you Asu, Cap or Die would play a Cleric {unless it was able to be a Wolf}.


5 Foot Step wrote on May 29th, 2016 at 11:25am:
Give the build to Fran. He'll still insist that you're doing it wrong.


I've seen what people are calling Cleric these days - It tends to include 8+ levels of something else or a Two Hander!

Again - If I want to play a Barb with Buffs I'll play a Bladeforged Pally!

And the big problem with TU is the inability to multiclass {because it's only just viable Pure and then only in EH at best}.


Of the characters I have that started out as Clerics:

Cannith

Jelina has two Cleric Past Lives and is currently a Human Sacred KotC Paladin {I prefer KotC to Vanguard even for S+B - Yes I tried Vanguard and it sucked!}.

Heanton {Originally Enoq of Orien - Came to Cannith in 2012 at about Lvl 8 and took 3+ more years to reach 20.}:
1st Life: Cleric 20 {TRd instantly}
2nd Life: PDK Pally 13/Ftr 2 {Not played since I TRd him a couple months ago}.

Ffyra is Lvl 17 1st Life {One of only two out of the 28 characters on my main account on Cannith that hasn't hit Lvl 20!}.


Sarlona

Wulfruna:
1st Life - Cleric 21 {TRd asap}
2nd Life - Cleric 11 / Ftr 3 / Wiz 1 {Morninglord - Hasn't been played in the 6+ months since I TRd her}.

Nyszsa:
1st Life - Cleric 28 with 1 Divine Past Life
2nd Life - Cleric 4 {Hasn't been played since the first week after she was TRd - Before Cap went up to 30!}.

Lakshmibai - 1st Life Morninglord created when Morninglord came out and still only Lvl 17!


Khyber

Xenyr {Originally Marethx of Wayfinder}:
1st Life: Cleric 13 / Monk 7 / Epic 2 {Totally gimped attempt at a Clonk - TRd asap}.
2nd Life: Warlock 9 {don't get to play much on Khyber and when I do I've been trying to ungimp other alts}.

I do also have a couple of characters doing Cleric Past Lives but I pretty much gave up on having a viable Cleric a long time ago!




If you truly want to help then here:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/475779-Help-me-ungimp-at-least-one-of-...
« Last Edit: May 29th, 2016 at 6:44pm by FranOhmsford »  

Main Characters by Server - Cannith Jelina, Sylveria, Enochpagett, Lieuk, Larystessian, Molineux. Sarlona Keltenn, Franq, Athiina, Nyszsa, Curleag, Nalpheyn. Khyber Tynecastle, Athenion, Argo Clievelund, Bjorkalina, G-Land Hassannavid, Tannadice.
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