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harharharhar
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #75 - Nov 26th, 2016 at 8:29pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Nov 26th, 2016 at 6:59pm:
E Golden Guile (Improved Deception, Ghostly)


Props for thinking of this. I was trying to decide how I could get ghostly and Improved deception on my current build. This is an interesting option.
  
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #76 - Nov 26th, 2016 at 8:37pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Nov 26th, 2016 at 6:59pm:
Outfit of the Celestial Guardian (Fort 159, Q Deadly 3, Sheltering 38, Parrying 7, Deathblock 9, Angleic Grace, 2 slots, mythic +4)
T3 TF Shuri/Rebellion (-25% threat, Sneak Attack +5, Improved Deception, Armor Piercing 20%, red slot)


I know you've got a SA build here, but help me understand why this setup is better than
ToEE Armor/Set + Radiance LGS? Radiance procs constantly and blind is better than deception because shit can't hit you. I understand you're fitting Sneak attack, Sheltering and +3 Quality Deadly, but losing 20 Ranged Power is more of a loss than 3 deadly, and you could get SA on Slavers if I'm not mistaken (at +14 no less). You can devotion on your ToEE offhand and you can slot deathblock. You can get up to Mythic +2  I think on TOEE but I don't remember.

Anyway, Seems like you're leaving a lot of damage on the table and I don't understand why. 
  
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #77 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 12:31am
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This is what I settled on for one of my shuri toons.  Granted, I didn't emphasize SA as much since I don't plan on taking Scion of the Ethereal, but this same set should work with minor tweaking.

Slot Item Effect 1 Effect 2 Effect 3 Effect 4
Goggles Cannith Crafted Wisdom True Seeing Ins Wis
Helmet Legendary Executioner's Helm Ins SA +7/+11 Relentless Fury Seeker +17
Necklace Epic Golden Guile Ghostly Improved Deception
Trinket Epic Litany of the Dead Profane +2 abilities Profane +4 hit / dmg
Armor ToEE Robe Displacement Fortification Resistance 12
Cloak Legendary Slave Master's Cloak Protection +14 Spearblock VIII Ins Resist 6
Bracers Slave Lords Crafted Constitution Impulse Spellcraft Quality Con
Belt Legendary Animated Rope Dodge 17 SA +14/+22 Diversion 28 Combat Mastery 14
Ring 1 Slave Lords Crafted Dexterity 17 Armor Piercing Tendon Slice Quality Dex
Boots Slave Lords Crafted Sheltering Devotion Heal Quality PRR
Gloves Cannith Crafted Wizardry Healing Amp 61 Ins Dex 7
Ring 2 Legendary Ring of Prowess Deadly 14 Accuracy 28 Melee / Ranged Power 8
Weapon 1 Mortal Fear TF Shuriken / LGS Armor Piercing 35
Weapon 2 ToEE Shortsword Devotion 138 Riposte XII (+6) Magnetism 156
Quiver Epic Dynamistic Quiver Doubleshot 8 Ranged Power 4
  
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5 Foot Step
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #78 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 11:44am
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harharharhar wrote on Nov 26th, 2016 at 8:37pm:
I know you've got a SA build here, but help me understand why this setup is better than
ToEE Armor/Set + Radiance LGS? Radiance procs constantly and blind is better than deception because shit can't hit you. I understand you're fitting Sneak attack, Sheltering and +3 Quality Deadly, but losing 20 Ranged Power is more of a loss than 3 deadly, and you could get SA on Slavers if I'm not mistaken (at +14 no less). You can devotion on your ToEE offhand and you can slot deathblock. You can get up to Mythic +2  I think on TOEE but I don't remember.

Anyway, Seems like you're leaving a lot of damage on the table and I don't understand why. 


Radiance doesn't work on bosses, bosses are immune to blindness. Some creature types are immune to blindness as well. Nothing is immune to deception, AFAIK. For defense, I build for grouping, so I only have to worry if I have aggro, which is not often unless I hit it first and kite it (-25% threat Rebellion, -20% from SD, note to self: check if Dark Diversion stacks for hot swapping). Also the whole turning mobs around thing is a pretty good defense in and of itself.

As far as damage on the table, just like I found in my assassin DPS tests, a sneak attack build gets a huge DPS boost from double stacking deception. With a 4 second duration and assuming 6 attacks per second It's ~85% deception uptime vs ~98% uptime.
Aside from that, the TS outfit is major slot consolidation, as you can see in my other 2 lists I could not fit everything in, so it's not just 3 deadly, but also netting 2 dex, 8 wis, spellpower, and more. Note that the spellpower, riposte, resistance, fortification on the ToEE set isn't top of the line anymore. (I will sub in SA+14 for devotion lore on my slave craft, good catch, I was still looking at the rope belt when I picked that.)

Still, Rebellion is likely not the right choice if you are not sneak attack focused and run mostly solo.

Improved Deception Statistics:
10% rate, 4 second duration, 6 attacks per second.

Single stack:
1 second/6 procs: 53.14% chance of not proccing
2 seconds/12 procs: 28.24% chance of not proccing
3 seconds/18 procs: 15.01% chance of not proccing

Double stack:
1 second/12 procs: 28.24% chance of not proccing
2 seconds/24 procs: 7.98% chance of not proccing
3 seconds/36 procs: 2.25% chance of not proccing


BTW, what does your list look like?
« Last Edit: Nov 27th, 2016 at 11:53am by 5 Foot Step »  

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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #79 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 12:12pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 11:44am:
Nothing is immune to deception, AFAIK.


Yes.
Barring two freak mobs in the lord of blades chain this correct. Although what our Turbine overlords do going forward is another question. The direction the reaper development would seem to suggest that it is a possibility in that they are giving up on making challenge and defaulting to hobbling players and calling it difficulty. (another discussion I know, please forgive my digression.)
  
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #80 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 12:53pm
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Small update to the OP build.

Hmm...with 3 passive ki regen, I should look into 12 monk for abundant step.
« Last Edit: Nov 27th, 2016 at 1:48pm by 5 Foot Step »  

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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #81 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 2:56pm
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The Blender v4.2


Race: Human
Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Class: 12 Monk/6 Fighter/2 Ranger RMFM RMFM RMFM FRFM FMMM


Stats:......... (36 pt build)

Strength............8
Dexterity...........18 (+ level ups)
Constitution........8
Intelligence........12
Wisdom.............18
Charisma............8
(+7 tomes recommended for all stats)


Feat Progression:

RMFM RMFM MMFM FMMM MMFF

Level 1 : Point Blank Shot
Level 1(H) Precise Shot
Level 2(M1) Precision
Level 3 : Completionist
Level 3(F1) Weapon Focus Thrown
Level 4(M2) Shuriken Expertise
Level 5(R2) Rapid Shot
Level 6 : Dodge
Level 7(F2) Quick Draw
Level 9 : Mobility
Level 10(M6) 10K Stars
Level 12 : Improved Critical Thrown
Level 13(F4) Weapon Specialization Thrown
Level 15 : Improved Precise Shot
Level 18 : Grandmaster of Forms
Level 20(F6) Shot on the run
Level 21 : Overwhelming Critical
Level 24 : Great Dexterity
Level 26 : Epic Spellpower
Level 27 : Great Dexterity
Level 28 : Doubleshot
Level 29 : Elusive Target
Level 30 : Sneak of Shadows
Level 30 : Scion of the Ethereal Plane


Enhancements

Kensei: 35 AP

Core 3/6
Extra Action Boost 3/3 (6 pts)
Weapon Group Specialization 3/4 (6 pts)
Improved Dodge 3/3
Ascetic Training (Contemplation) 3/3
Dex +1
Dex +1
Athletic Mastery 3/3
Shattering Shot 1/3
Strike at the Heart
One with the Blade
Keen Edge
Deadly Shot
A Good Death


Deepwood Stalker: 1AP

Core 1/6

Ninja: 24 AP

Core 2/6
Ninjutsu 4/4
Sneak Attack Training 4/4 (8 pts)
Stealthy 1/3
Agility 3/3
Sting of the Ninja (2 pts)
Dex+1 (2 pts)
Dex+1 (2 pts)


Arcane Archer: 9 AP

Core 1/6
Awareness 2/3
Elemental Arrows 2/4 (4 pts)
Inferno Shot 2/3


Racial: 11 AP

Damage Boost
Dex +1
Improved Recovery (2 pts)
Sniper 3/3 (6 AP)


Epic Destiny: Shadowdancer

Stealthy 3/3
Dex +1

Lithe 1/3
Dex +1

Grim Precision 3/3
Shrouding Shot 1/3
Dex +1

Improved Invis 1/3
Dex +1

Untouchable
Dex +1

Shadow Form
Dex +1


Twists: 4/3/2/1/1

Piercing Clarity
Whirling Wrists
AB: Damage
Rejuvenation Cocoon
Enlightenment


Gear:
L Executioner's Helm (Ins deception +7, Relentless Fury, Seeker 17, Mythic +3)
E Golden Guile (Improved Deception, Ghostly)
E Litany (+2 stats, +4 hit and damage)
CC Cloak (Spell Saves 12/Dodge 15/i Wis 7/2 slots)
Slave craft belt (False life 68/Deception 14/-/Q PRR 11/Mythic 3)
L Ring of Prowess (Deadly 14, Accuracy 28, RP 8, Mythic +3)
CC Gloves(DS 9 of Hamp 61 Ins Dex 7)
Slave craft ring (Wis 17, Resistance 14/-/Q Wis 4/+3 Mythic)
Slave craft Boots (Dex 17/Magnetism 185/Tendon Slice/Q Dex 4/+3 Mythic)
Slave craft Bracers (Con 17/Devotion Lore/-/Q Con 4/+3 Mythic)
LGS Goggles (70 HP, 39 dex skills)
Outfit of the Celestial Guardian (Fort 159, Q Deadly 3, Sheltering 38, Parrying 7, Deathblock 9, blurry, Angelic Grace, 2 slots, mythic +4)
T3 TF Shuri/Rebellion (-25% threat, Sneak Attack +5, Improved Deception, Armor Piercing 20%, red slot w/ devotion slotted, adds implement bonus +24)
EE Quiver of Poison

Slave Lord's Might set +2 Dex/Str, +4 Art RP, +4 Art Deadly


176 average base sneak attack (12d6+96 hide mod+14 SoS boost+24 from deception) * (1.5*139 RP=208 effective RP)(30 epic levels+33 10k+24 SD levels+20 Kensei+21 gear+11 feats)= 542.08 * 182% ANT/SE + 60% DS = 1853.9136 x 1.05 shadow mastery = 1946.60928 * 1.05 relentless fury = 2043.939744 of just sneak attack damage per animation. (no helpless)


5.75d2+20 enhancement+41 dex +25 deadly + 8 WS + 4 ninjutsu + 3 monk PLs + 6 ranger PLs = 115.625x1.35 (crit profile) = 156.09375+12.65 (23 seeker) = 168.74375 x 2.39 (RP) = 403.2975625 x 2.82 (ANT/SE) + .60 (DS) = 1379.27766375 * 1.05 shadow mastery = 1448.2415469375

plus

Mainhand 35 ToF + 10.35 DE + 36 MF + 10.5 CW Ruby + 65.61 Element Arrow (3d8 w/ 386sp) + (15 x 2.39=35.85)  sting +11 quiver + (10.5*2.39=25.095) harbinger  = 229.405 x 2.82 (ANT/SE) + .60 (DS) = 784.5651

= 4276.7463909375 average red name damage per animation while auto attacking

x1.4 animations per second = 5987.4449473125 red name auto attack damage per second

plus 103.1333333333333 inferno shot spam

=6090.578280645833 red name unboosted damage per second

1 base + .92 ANT + .92 SE + .63 DS = 3.47 * 1.4 animation rate = 4.858 attacks per second.

Shadow Mastery uptime = 94%
Improved Deception uptime = 96%
41% Dodge
25% incorporeal
20% perma blurry (clickies for 50%)
193 Armor Class
60% Doubleshot
195 Hide
139 Ranged Power
387 Spell Power
105% Fortification Bypass
1171 Hit Points
87 PRR
50 MRR
92 Dex
66 Wis
45 Con

Code
Select All
Dodge: 15 item + 3 Past Life + 6 monk levels + 3 dodge feat + 3 Kensei + 12 Grand Ocean stance= 42%

Max Dodge: 25 base + 2 guild + 3 Ninja + 3 Kensei + 8 Grand Ocean stance = 41% Dodge

Dexterity
18 base
7 tome
7 level ups
17 enhancement gear
7 insight
4 quality
2 artifact
1 exceptional
2 profane
2 completionist
2 epic feat
1 racial ap
2 Kensei ap
2 NSpy ap
6 ED
=82 Standing

4 Tensors
2 ship
2 yugo
2 store pot
=92 Buffed Dex

+2 fourth epic dex feat
+5 twists
+1 exc
+2 AP
+4 wind stance
=106 Theoretical Max Dex.

Wisdom:
18 base
7 tome
2 completionist
17 enhancement
7 insightful
4 quality
2 profane
1 exceptional
2 spooke
=60 standing

2 guild ship
2 yugo
2 store pot
=66 buffed Wis

Doubleshot:
10 feat
9 EPL stance
30 10k stars (12 monk levels * 5 /50% uptime)
9 enhancement item
2 guild
[s]3 Kensei[/s] Strike w/ no thought is bugged atm apparently
=60% Doubleshot

Hide
23 ranks
10 epic
41 dex
39 LGS (competence/insight/quality)
2 luck
2 completionist
1 profane
4 morale
4 scion of ethereal
20 shadow form
1 AP stealthy
6 SD stealthy
5 hide in plain sight (sometimes)
3 ship buff
31 sneak of shadows
5 inherent
=192-197 hide (96 sneak attack damage)

Ranged Power:
30 epic
24 SD
4 WF
4 WS
3 SotR
9 Mythic
33 10k avg
8 item
20 kensei
4 artifact
=139 RP

Int:
12 base
7 tome
8 enhancement (augment)
2 profane
2 completionist
2 insight (augment)
2 guild
2 store pot
1 exc
=38 int 

Spellcraft:
14 int
11 ranks
10 epic
22 item
2 completionist
2 luck
1 profane
4 scion
3 EPL stance
4 morale
5 inherent
=78 spellcraft

Spell power:
185 equipment
24 implement
60 epic levels
20 epic spell power feat
5 AA
78 spellcraft
15 EPL stance
=387 spell power

Fort Bypass:
25 precision
15 grim precision
10 piercing clarity
5 guild buff
20 armor piercing
=75% passive

15 Improved Destruction
15 shattering shot
=105% active fortification bypass

Con:
8 base
17 enhancement
7 tome
4 Quality
2 insight (augment)
2 completionist
2 profane
2 guild
1 exceptional
=45 Con

HP:
188 heroic levels
100 epic levels
510 con
135 EPLs
68 false life
70 LGS
30 pl barb
10 argo favor
20 vitality (augment)
20 guild
20 heroic durability
=1171 HP

PRR:
36 PLs
38 sheltering
13 mythic
=87 PRR

MRR:
18 PLs
38 Sheltering
13 mythic
= capped at 50 MRR

AC:
10 base
41 dex
27 wis
9 monk levels
20 armor
4 shield (clicky)
45 EPLs
7 insight
2 Lithe
8 natural
8 deflection
6 guild
6 alchemical
=193 AC 

« Last Edit: Jan 27th, 2017 at 1:46pm by 5 Foot Step »  

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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #82 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 2:58pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 12:53pm:
Hmm...with 3 passive ki regen, I should look into 12 monk for abundant step.


12 monk/6 fighter/2 ranger

lose some spell points, 1 BAB
lose 2 damage from ram's might
lose 1d6 SA, 5 meters SA range, 10 positive SP from DS core 2
lose t3 AA (5d8 to 3d8 elemental arrows, 2W inferno shot to 0W)
lose 20 DS from killer
lose 30 hp from survivalist
lose thrill of the hunt +3 damage (sometimes)
lose AB RP

gain abundant step
gain slow fall
gain 5% run speed
gain poison "immunity"
gain +10% 10k DS
gain 23 AP (+ a good death, deadly shot, weapon spec x2 (+4 dmg), 1 seeker, ninjutsu x2 (+2 dmg), +3 SA dice, +3 dex, +human hamp)

feats wash (precise shot vs master stance)
saves wash

  

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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #83 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 7:32pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 11:44am:
Radiance doesn't work on bosses, bosses are immune to blindness


Dude, I don't use Radiance on red names. I switch to Vacuum or Triple Air. This is moot.

5 Foot Step wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 11:44am:
Some creature types are immune to blindness as well.


An absurdly low number of mobs in the game are immune to blindness. Most that are take greatly increased light damage from the proc, which is not nothing.

5 Foot Step wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 11:44am:
Also the whole turning mobs around thing is a pretty good defense in and of itself.


I agree on the defensive aspect, though it pales vastly in comparison to a blind mob. I think it's more important to blind mobs defensively for yourself and party than any other form of defense in DDO (Dodge, Deflect Arrows, AC, Concealment, Incorporeality, or PRR). If things are blind they literally cannot hit you unless you let them stand in front of you and swing and even then 100% miss chance is reduced to 50%. Against things that can't be blinded this defensive aspect is not applicable. But again, that's extraordinarily rare in this game. If needed, swap to a different weapon set. The build has quickdraw, it's not bad.

Moreover, unlike deception and bluffs, the entire party receives auto-sneak attack damage on blinded mobs. It's a nice boost to party damage and also allows people to take a lot less damage.

5 Foot Step wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 11:44am:
Still, Rebellion is likely not the right choice if you are not sneak attack focused and run mostly solo.

Improved Deception Statistics:
10% rate, 4 second duration, 6 attacks per second.

Single stack:
1 second/6 procs: 53.14% chance of not proccing
2 seconds/12 procs: 28.24% chance of not proccing
3 seconds/18 procs: 15.01% chance of not proccing

Double stack:
1 second/12 procs: 28.24% chance of not proccing
2 seconds/24 procs: 7.98% chance of not proccing
3 seconds/36 procs: 2.25% chance of not proccing


So, I haven't done your tests but from what I can understand, you think that using Sniper Shot, Improved Deception and Radiance will result in less SA damage than Sniper Shot and Improved Deception x 2? I'm still testing, but I think Blindness has somewhere between 10-15% proc chance. Duration is also better than Deception. Plus the above defensive benefits.

6 Attacks/second also seems very high. Full time over a minute should average to about 5 (1.4 throw rate * 3.2 Proc Rate @80 Dex and 50 Doubleshot).

5 Foot Step wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 11:44am:
Note that the spellpower, riposte, resistance, fortification on the ToEE set isn't top of the line anymore.


Perhaps not but I think it's pretty negligible. +2 Saves on the resistance, the Parrying on the ToEE offhand is still top notch, 138 electric spell power versus 185 is a big difference, but you can slot that if you have to on Slavers. Other than that I think it holds up just fine.

My list is sadly incomplete right now because I jus came back, LR'd and I never finished my Slavers grind. Probably 5 piece slavers, rest cannith, maybe Epic Golden Guile. But of course, I am running Fury of the Wild and Slayer/Sniper arrows. I do have Scion Ethereal however and about 130 Hide (though no Sneak of Shadows, preferred RP from Weapon Focus/Weapon Spec.
  
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #84 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 7:34pm
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I will say that if i end up working eGolden Guile in, I may LR to put points into Bluff and Diplomacy. Those would be great for shedding boss aggro since Adrenaline/Slayer draws so much aggro.
  
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #85 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 8:09pm
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isnt blind concealment? shouldnt stack with displace.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #86 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 8:46pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 8:09pm:
isnt blind concealment? shouldnt stack with displace.


Yes but they have to see you to find you and swing at you. Also, Displace runs out sometimes and it's awfully nice to know you don't need it for most when they're blind. Ditto for party members without a lot of Displace.
  
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #87 - Nov 27th, 2016 at 9:36pm
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harharharhar wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 8:46pm:
Yes but they have to see you to find you and swing at you. Also, Displace runs out sometimes and it's awfully nice to know you don't need it for most when they're blind. Ditto for party members without a lot of Displace.

I have a rad and a vac on my mech. the vac is way faster at killing, but the rad also has hamp tier 3 and is less dps but more utility. i play on low graphic settings and my object draw is low as well. i guess increasing that distance from mobs is better for blind. at medium range the mobs somehow still seek me out when blinded.

another benefit of blind is that it should ignore true seeing buff.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #88 - Nov 28th, 2016 at 10:51am
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harharharhar wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 7:32pm:
Radiance


Unlike blind players, blind mobs can use their listen skill to detect you within a certain range. You still get attacked less, but not less than a mob that is turned around 98% of the time. If they aren't detecting anything with listen, then they usually run around like idiots, effectively neutering your party's melee DPS.

Kuldjargh:
Code
Select All
(Acid_DamageResistance): 0
(Acid_DamageVulnerability): 100%
(AI.Combat@NPC.m_PrimaryMissileDID): (item_weapon_ThrowingDagger_epic_throwing_axe)
(AI.SpellSelection@NPC.m_bDoesNotAcceptHealing): True
(AI_CastFrequency): Never
(AI_HearingAbility): Medium
(AI_HearingAbility_Value): 50
(AI_MakeDecision_Int): 4
(AI_MaxStunHitCount): 0
(AI_SeeingAbility): Medium
(AI_SeeingAbility_Value): 50
(AI_WaitingForEntrance): True
(BehaviorState_CharismaZero): False
(BehaviorState_DexterityZero): False
(BehaviorState_IntelligenceZero): False
(BehaviorState_StrengthZero): False
(BehaviorState_WisdomZero): False
(Chaotic_DamageVulnerability): 100%
(Character_Base_FortitudeSaveBonus): 40
(Character_Base_ReflexSaveBonus): 35
(Character_Base_WillSaveBonus): 39
(Character_ChallengeRating): 59
(Character_CreatureSize): Medium
(Character_TotalLevel): 59
(Charisma_Base): 1
(Cold_DamageResistance): 0
(Cold_DamageVulnerability): 0%
(Collect_OnceADayQuestBag): Undef
(Collect_OnceADayQuestItem): Undef
(Collect_PercentChanceCorpseLoot): 0
(Combat.Damage@Agent::m_bIsInvulnerableToDamage): True
(Combat.Damage@Agent::m_bIsInvulnerableToProcs): True
(Combat_BaseAttackBonus): 99
(Combat_BlockingArmorBonus): 0
(Combat_BlockingDamageReduction): 0
(Combat_CriticalHitResistance): 100%
(Combat_FlankingAttackBonus): 2
(Combat_GhostTouch): False
(Combat_HasTrueSeeing): False
(Combat_ImmuneToSneakAttack): True
(Combat_InnateArmorBonus): 44
(Combat_InnateAttack_Array): ARRAY[2]
      (Combat_InnateAttack_Entry): ARRAY[12]
            (Durability_PenetrationValue): 59
            (Combat_CriticalHitRange): 19-20
            (Combat_CriticalHitMod): x3
            (Durability_WearValue): "2d2-2"
            (DamageFlags): Pierce
            (Combat_DamageAbilityMod_Multiple): Strength
            (Material): (material_bone)
            (Combat_HitAbilityMod_Multiple): Strength
            (Combat_InnateAttackID): mn_r_hand
            (Combat_HandednessDamageMod): 100%
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      (Combat_InnateAttack_Entry): ARRAY[12]
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            (Combat_CriticalHitRange): 19-20
            (Combat_CriticalHitMod): x3
            (Durability_WearValue): "2d2-2"
            (DamageFlags): Pierce
            (Combat_DamageAbilityMod_Multiple): Strength
            (Material): (material_bone)
            (Combat_HitAbilityMod_Multiple): Strength
            (Combat_InnateAttackID): mn_l_hand
            (Combat_HandednessDamageMod): 100%
            (Effect_OnHitEffects): ARRAY[1]
                  (Effect_Entry): ARRAY[1]
                        (Effect): (eff_impeded)
            (DamageValue): "5d18"
(Combat_InnateShieldBonus): 0
(Constitution_Base): 0
(Creation_ReceiveNotice): "<rgb=0x00FFFFFF>You gather #1: from #2:{the[!n]} #2:.</rgb>"
(Creature_Genus): Undead
(Creature_ShowName): True
(Creature_Species): Skeleton
(Creature_Traits): Boss, Evil, NoConstitution, UnderstandsCommon
(Creature_TraitsExtended): Undef
(Damage_Agent_DefensiveRating): 0
(Damage_Agent_MagicalRating): 0
(Death_CanBeResurrected): True
(Death_LifeState): Alive
(Death_RotDelay): 15
(Dexterity_Base): 14
(DR_Base_Array): ARRAY[1]
      (DamageReductionEntry): ARRAY[2]
            (DamageReductionFlags): Bludgeon
            (DamageReductionValue): 39
(Dungeon_CasualDifficulty): (mn_(Skeleton)_kuldjargh_[normal])
(Dungeon_EasyDifficulty): (mn_(Skeleton)_kuldjargh_[normal])
(Dungeon_EpicCasualDifficulty): (mn_(Skeleton)_kuldjargh_[epic])
(Dungeon_EpicDifficulty): (mn_(Skeleton)_kuldjargh_[epic])
(Dungeon_EpicEliteDifficulty): (mn_(Skeleton)_kuldjargh_[epic_elite])
(Dungeon_EpicHardDifficulty): (mn_(Skeleton)_kuldjargh_[epic_hard])
(Dungeon_HardDifficulty): (mn_(Skeleton)_kuldjargh_[elite])
(Dungeon_MediumDifficulty): (mn_(Skeleton)_kuldjargh_[hard])
(Dungeon_SoloDifficulty): (mn_placeholder_kobold)
(Durability_PenetrationValue): 25
(Durability_WearValue): "2d2-2"
(Effect_OnCreationEffects): ARRAY[1]
      (Effect_Entry): ARRAY[1]
            (Effect): (eff_see_invisibility)
(Electric_DamageResistance): 0
(Electric_DamageVulnerability): 100%
(Entity_AdditionalScriptTables): ARRAY[2]
      (ScriptTable_DBScriptTable): Resource 0x07004E0B ""
      (ScriptTable_DBScriptTable): Resource 0x07004ECE ""
(Entity_Monitors): ARRAY[3]
      (Entity_Monitor): ARRAY[3]
            (Monitor_BoxMin): -1, -1, -0.5
            (Monitor_BoxMax): 1, 1, 2.5
            (Monitor_Name): NearVolume
      (Entity_Monitor): ARRAY[4]
            (Monitor_BoxMin): -60, -60, -0.5
            (Monitor_BoxMax): 60, 60, 10
            (Monitor_RejectNotDetectableObjects): False
            (Monitor_Name): SightVolume
      (Entity_Monitor): ARRAY[5]
            (Monitor_DynamicEntitiesOnly): True
            (Monitor_BoxMin): -60, -60, -0.5
            (Monitor_BoxMax): 60, 60, 10
            (Monitor_Name): DetectVolume
            (Monitor_ClientOnly): True
(Evil_DamageVulnerability): 100%
(Examination@Target.m_aControllers): ARRAY[6]
      (Examination@Target.m_didController): (examination_default)
      (Examination@Target.m_didController): (examination_challengerating)
      (Examination@Target.m_didController): (examination_genus)
      (Examination@Target.m_didController): (examination_species)
      (Examination@Target.m_didController): (examination_description)
      (Examination@Target.m_didController): (examination_effects)
(Feat_ArmorPiercing): 0%
(Feat_Evasion): 0
(Feat_ImprovedEvasion): 0
(Feat_SneakAttack): 0
(Fire_DamageResistance): 0
(Fire_DamageVulnerability): 100%
(Force_DamageVulnerability): 100%
(Generator_DontIncludeInCount): True
(Good_DamageVulnerability): 100%
(HitDice): "1D22193+105580"
(HP_Percentage): 100%
(HP_Threshold_High_Percentage): 75%
(HP_Threshold_Low_Percentage): 25%
(HP_Threshold_Medium_Percentage): 50%
(Intelligence_Base): 8
(Lawful_DamageVulnerability): 100%
(Light_DamageVulnerability): 100%
(Material): (material_bone)
(MaxSpellPoints): 0
(MonsterManual_VariantOverrideDID): Undef
(MoveToController_TurnRate): 1800
(Name): "Kuldjargh"
(Name_Qualified): "Kuldjargh"
(Negative_DamageVulnerability): -100%
(NPC_AttackPlayers): True
(NPC_IsPotentialPlayerTarget): True
(NPC_RecoveryTime): 1
(NPC_StunTime): 0
(Physics_EtherealityType): Monster
(Physics_EtherealToType): Default, Water, Ethereal
(Physics_MissileEtherealToType): Camera, Default, Projectile, Monster, Water, Ethereal
(Physics_MissilePlacementRaycastEtherealToType): Camera, Default, Projectile, Monster, Water, Ethereal, Admin, Player
(Physics_NotDetectable): True
(Physics_PlacementEtherealToType): Default, Monster, Water, Ethereal
(PhysObj): Resource 0x4700428F ""
(PluralName): ""
(Poison_DamageVulnerability): 0%
(Positive_DamageVulnerability): -100%
(Repair_DamageVulnerability): 0%
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(Scaling_Lookup_General): Undef
(Scaling_Lookup_Ranged): Undef
(Scaling_Lookup_Spells): Undef
(Skill_Balance): 49
(Skill_Hide): 0
(Skill_MoveSilently): 0
(Slavery_Can_Be_Raised_X_Times): 1
(Slavery_Role): Independant_As_Undead
(Sonic_DamageResistance): 0
(Sonic_DamageVulnerability): 100%
(SpellPoints_AbilityBonus): 0
(Spell_CasterLevel): 59
(Spell_CastingAbility): Charisma
(Spell_DamageMod_SpellPower): 0%
(Spell_IsSpellGod): True
(Spell_Resistance): 0
(Strength_Base): 64
(Title): "Skeletal Battlerager"
(Toggle.Creation@Entity::m_didEntity): Undef
(Toggle.Creation@Entity::m_ePlacement): Give
(Usage@Usable.m_didAction): (action_)
(Usage_CanBeUsed): False
(Usage_CanBeUsedOnlyOnce): True
(WeenieType): Monster
(Wisdom_Base): 13
 



For these reasons, and the aforementioned nonstacking of concealment, I see no reasonable way to consider radiance a party buff, unless your party is all ranged sneak attackers. Even then, ideally only 1 player needs to be blinding them.

harharharhar wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 7:32pm:
Vacuum


I find vacuum is almost always a waste since there's a ridiculous number of sources of vulnerability stacks and they all pool into the same debuff. (Pally cleaves, warpriest smites, air savant, arcane archer, arcanotechnician, 1st degree burns, etc. Most mobs were constantly fully vulnerability stacked before LGS even came out. It's awesome when you solo, but even then a few swings fully stacks it and then you're better off swapping to a DPS weapon.

harharharhar wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 7:32pm:
So, I haven't done your tests but from what I can understand, you think that using Sniper Shot, Improved Deception and Radiance will result in less SA damage than Sniper Shot and Improved Deception x 2? I'm still testing, but I think Blindness has somewhere between 10-15% proc chance. Duration is also better than Deception. Plus the above defensive benefits.

6 Attacks/second also seems very high. Full time over a minute should average to about 5 (1.4 throw rate * 3.2 Proc Rate @80 Dex and 50 Doubleshot).


The proc rate on radiance is unspaded AFAIK. Sniper Shot will help close the gap if you truly spam it, but at 5 attacks per second, that gap is going to be larger.

Improved Deception Statistics:
10% rate, 4 second duration, 5 attacks per second.

Single stack:
1 second/5 procs: 59.049% chance of not proccing
2 seconds/10 procs: 34.86784401% chance of not proccing
3 seconds/15 procs: 20.5891132094649% chance of not proccing

Double stack:
1 second/10 procs: 34.86784401% chance of not proccing
2 seconds/20 procs: 12.15766545905693% chance of not proccing
3 seconds/30 procs: 4.23911582752162% chance of not proccing

harharharhar wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 7:32pm:
Parrying on the ToEE offhand is still top notch


Parrying 7 on TS armor > Riposte 12 on ToEE.

harharharhar wrote on Nov 27th, 2016 at 7:34pm:
Diplomacy


Diplo is very much worth it.
  

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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #89 - Nov 28th, 2016 at 11:16am
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Just a question regarding Improved Deception.
Do two sources of ID really stack?
I thought that Improved Deception only stacks with a normal [not Improved] Deception item.
  
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #90 - Nov 28th, 2016 at 11:27am
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Dexterity
18 base
7 tome
7 level ups
17 enhancement gear
7 insight
4 quality
2 artifact
1 exceptional
2 profane
2 completionist
2 epic feat
1 racial ap
2 Kensei ap
2 NSpy ap
6 ED
=82 Standing

4 Tensors
2 ship
2 yugo
2 store pot
=92 Buffed

+2 fourth epic dex feat
+5 twists
+1 exc
+2 AP
+4 wind stance
=106 Theoretical Max Dex.


Doubleshot:
10 feat
9 EPL stance
30 10k stars (12 monk levels * 5 /50% uptime)
9 enhancement item
2 guild
3 Kensei
=63%

1 base + .92 ANT + .92 SE + .63 DS = 3.47 * 1.4 animation rate = 4.858 attacks per second.

1.4 seems a little low to me, but I know Jakee has put more research into that than I have.
« Last Edit: Nov 28th, 2016 at 11:34am by 5 Foot Step »  

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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #91 - Nov 28th, 2016 at 12:44pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Nov 28th, 2016 at 11:27am:
Doubleshot:
10 feat
9 EPL stance
30 10k stars (12 monk levels * 5 /50% uptime)
9 enhancement item
2 guild
3 Kensei
=63%

1 base + .92 ANT + .92 SE + .63 DS = 3.47 * 1.4 animation rate = 4.858 attacks per second.


I'm really enjoying this thread keep it up dudes.

On the subject of DS and 10k I don't think they should be listed together, although it's counter intuitive the DS from the base sources:

10 feat
9 EPL stance
9 enhancement item
2 guild
3 Kensei

33%

Are resolved separately for every animation, while the 60% that 10k will give you is resolved for every shuriken that the thrower throws not just animation or initial shuriken. Think of it as a last step the attacks go through before engaging the enviroment/targets.  This is not the same for the SE percentage and the ANT percentage, each is resolved for every animation not every shuriken created.

Think of it this way: DS, SE, ANT, are all running 'in parallel' at the attack action combining their effects, while 10k is running 'in series' amplifying the effects downstream before the attacks are resolved. This is one of the main reasons why monk thrower can feel like it's producing so many more attacks than a non 10k, because it quite often is.

Hope that helps peoples.
« Last Edit: Nov 28th, 2016 at 12:45pm by »  
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #92 - Nov 28th, 2016 at 1:27pm
Print Post  
Quote:
I'm really enjoying this thread keep it up dudes.

On the subject of DS and 10k I don't think they should be listed together, although it's counter intuitive the DS from the base sources:

10 feat
9 EPL stance
9 enhancement item
2 guild
3 Kensei

33%

Are resolved separately for every animation, while the 60% that 10k will give you is resolved for every shuriken that the thrower throws not just animation or initial shuriken. Think of it as a last step the attacks go through before engaging the enviroment/targets.  This is not the same for the SE percentage and the ANT percentage, each is resolved for every animation not every shuriken created.

Think of it this way: DS, SE, ANT, are all running 'in parallel' at the attack action combining their effects, while 10k is running 'in series' amplifying the effects downstream before the attacks are resolved. This is one of the main reasons why monk thrower can feel like it's producing so many more attacks than a non 10k, because it quite often is.

Hope that helps peoples.


No, it is straight up doubleshot and ranged power as of the ranged pass update.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Ten_Thousand_Stars

Quote:
Ten Thousand Stars

Cost: 20 Ki
Cooldown: 60 seconds
Usage: Active
Prerequisite: Monk 6, Dexterity 13
Description

Activate this ability to enter a trance for 30 seconds (or until you become uncentered). Add your Wisdom ability score to your Ranged Power and add your monk level * 5 to your Doubleshot.


Hope that helps.
  

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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #93 - Nov 28th, 2016 at 1:44pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Nov 28th, 2016 at 1:27pm:
No, it is straight up doubleshot and ranged power as of the ranged pass update.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Ten_Thousand_Stars


Hope that helps.



The last thing I want is to get into a argument with you guys, I like the builds and I'm here to learn and use stuff okay?

I've read the wiki and followed the mobos for discussions of 10k, ES, ANT. The info I was trying to share is fresh (Nov 12th)  from a player in my Pathfinder campaign who is a code monkey for Turbine on both LoTR and DDO and knew that I was getting into throwers and ranged building. I thought you guys would like to know what he outline about the current throwing mechanic post U33 so I shared.
« Last Edit: Nov 28th, 2016 at 1:47pm by »  
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #94 - Nov 28th, 2016 at 2:48pm
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Quote:
The last thing I want is to get into a argument with you guys, I like the builds and I'm here to learn and use stuff okay?

I've read the wiki and followed the mobos for discussions of 10k, ES, ANT. The info I was trying to share is fresh (Nov 12th)  from a player in my Pathfinder campaign who is a code monkey for Turbine on both LoTR and DDO and knew that I was getting into throwers and ranged building. I thought you guys would like to know what he outline about the current throwing mechanic post U33 so I shared.


If what you shared is true, then we would often see 5-8 attacks from one animation. We only ever see 4 though (unless you boost to +100% DS for 5).

I'm all for new info, but this seems obviously false. Unless you were trying to say something else?
  

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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #95 - Nov 28th, 2016 at 2:50pm
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Updated damage calc in the build post:

Quote:
1 base + .92 ANT + .92 SE + .63 DS = 3.47 * 1.4 animation rate = 4.858 attacks per second.
Shadow Mastery uptime = 94%
Improved Deception uptime = 96%

142.5 average base sneak attack (11d6+55 standing hide mod+25 SoS boost+24 from deception) * (1.5*138 RP=207 effective MP)(30 epic levels+32 10k+24 SD levels+20 Kensei+21 gear+11 feats)= 437.475 + 182% ANT/SE = 1233.6795 + 60% DS = 1496.1645 x 1.05 shadow mastery = 1570.972725 of just sneak attack damage per animation. (no helpless)


7.25d2+20 enhancement+41 dex +25 deadly + 8 WS + 4 ninjutsu +3 monk PLs + 6 ranger PLs = 97.875x1.35 (crit profile) = 132.13125+13.2 (24 seeker) = 145.33125 x 2.38 (MP) = 345.888375 x 2.82 (ANT/SE) = 975.4052175 + .60 (DS) = 1182.9382425 x1.05 shadow mastery = 1242.085154625

plus

Mainhand 35 ToF + 10.35 DE + 36 MF + 10.5 CW Ruby + 62.91 Element Arrow (3d8 w/ 366sp) + (15 x 2.38=35.7)  sting +11 quiver +10.5 harbinger  = 211.96 x 2.82 (ANT/SE)= 597.7272 + .60 (DS) = 724.9032

= 3537.961079625 average red name damage per animation while auto attacking

x1.4 animations per second = 4953.145511475 red name auto attack damage per second


I think I'm forgetting something.
  

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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #96 - Nov 28th, 2016 at 4:31pm
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How do I have 367 spell power? I'm glad you asked.

Int:
12 base
7 tome
8 enhancement (augment)
2 profane
2 completionist
2 insight (augment)
2 guild
2 store pot
1 exc
=38 int

Spellcraft:
14 int
11 ranks
10 epic
22 item
2 completionist
2 luck
1 profane
4 scion
3 EPL stance
4 morale
=73 spellcraft

Spell power:
185 equipment
24 implement
60 epic levels
20 epic spell power feat
5 AA
73 spellcraft
=367 spell power
  

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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #97 - Nov 28th, 2016 at 5:26pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Nov 28th, 2016 at 2:48pm:
If what you shared is true, then we would often see 5-8 attacks from one animation. We only ever see 4 though (unless you boost to +100% DS for 5).

I'm all for new info, but this seems obviously false. Unless you were trying to say something else?



I can only report what I was told, he does play as well so he has a decent grasp of live game play but if you are saying it's wrong then I guess I will have to bow to you're experience in the matter and move on.
  
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #98 - Nov 28th, 2016 at 5:41pm
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SweetKitten wrote on Nov 28th, 2016 at 11:16am:
Just a question regarding Improved Deception.
Do two sources of ID really stack?
I thought that Improved Deception only stacks with a normal [not Improved] Deception item.


You can combine 1 deception effect from a weapon and 1 from an accessory. The better of Improved deception or regular deception will apply from each. So you can have 2 regulars, 2 improveds, or one of each, as long as one is on a weapon and one is on an accessory both will always apply to both hands
  

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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #99 - Nov 28th, 2016 at 7:25pm
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Dance of Flowers vs +1 Dex

DoF = 24.7 damage
+1 Dex = 7 damage, 9 Sneak Attack damage, 4 proc damage
  

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