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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid) (Read 70189 times)
Dr Faustus
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Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid)
Jun 27th, 2016 at 11:21am
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Although I'm responsible for enumerating the details in this particular build post, the actual split / build idea comes from the following video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdIF0FnaNYw&feature=youtu.be&t=0m1s. No claim of ownership or originality is being made by me.

12 monk/6 ranger/2 fighter

Stats: (32/34/36)
Str: 8
Dex: 18
Con: 14
Int: 8/10/12
Wis: 16
Cha: 8

Feats:
1 (Helf dilettante) rogue
1 point blank shot
3 quick draw
6 sneak of shadows
7 (monk) 10k stars
8 (monk) shuriken expertise
9 precision
12 IC: Thrown
12 (monk) zen archery
15 Weapon Focus: Thrown or Completionist
18 Grandmaster or Forms
19 (fighter) Improved Precise Shot
20 (fighter) IC: Ranged
21 Overwhelming Critical
24 Combat Archery or WF: ranged
26 Silver Dr breaker
27 blinding speed
28 Doubleshot
29 Harbinger of Chaos or Arcane Warrior
30 epic reflexes or wf: ranged/combat archery (whichever you didn't take at 24)
30 Scion of Ethereal

Enhancements:
Helf (14 pts): 4 Cores, Improved recovery, arcane archer (racial), arcanum (1/3)
Arcane Archer (41 pts): shock + improved ele arrows, force, smiting, paralyzing, banishing, terror, runebow, moonbow, dex  x2, capstone, inferno shot (1/3)
Deepwood Stalker (11 pts): stealthy (3/3), improved empathy (1/3), weapon finesse, damage boost, sniper shot
Harper (8 pts): toughness (2/3), harper enchantment, agent of good, know the angles (3/3)
Ninja Spy (6 pts): sneak attack training, stealthy (2/3), advanced ninja training

Destiny:
Fury of the Wild
1) primal scream (3/3), con
2) acute instincts (3/3) damage reduction (3/3), con
3) con
4) sense weakness (3/3), gird against demons (1/2)
5) fury eternal
6) unbridled fury

Twists:
Tier 3: Whirling Wrists
Tier 3: Grim Precision
Tier 3: critical damage (drop this if no epic completionist)
Tier 1: Enlightenment
Tier 1: Cocoon

Items:
Weapon (main): LGS Vacuum Neg/Air/Neg, LGS air/air/air, LGS pos/pos/pos, TF mortal fear, TF drac reinv
Weapon (off): ToEE Electric Shortsword (caster stick, devotion slotted) / LGS stat stick swap (int, wis, cha t2s)
Weapon (bow): LGS Vacuum Neg/Air/Neg, LGS pos/pos/pos, LGS air/air/air
Armor: ToEE Cold Robe
Helm: Dragon Masque
Necklace: Legendary Pendent of Warrior's Focus
Goggles: Epic Mentua's Goggles /  Charming of Enchantment (paralyzing)
Trinket: Epic Litany
Cloak: Mysterious Cloak / Jeweled Cloak
Gloves: Dex of insight Dex (healing amp would be nice if lucky enough)
Bracers: Legendary Magewright Toolkit
Ring (1): Legendary Ring of Prowess
Ring (2): Con of Sheltering Ring (insight con would be nice)
Belt: Legendary Animated Rope
Boots: LGS Hp dex skills item
Quiver: Epic Dynamistic Quiver

Obviously the items will change once more details about U32 are released.
« Last Edit: Jun 28th, 2016 at 9:43am by Dr Faustus »  
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Re: Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid)
Reply #1 - Jun 27th, 2016 at 12:03pm
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Here's the build posted on mobos: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/463636-Some-New-Thrower-Builds?p=56613...

I dont mind someone being like "hey, I updated this build since it's been a few updates". That's totally cool. But link the original.

And that's not my video, so that's just someone who made my build.
« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2016 at 12:07pm by harharharhar »  
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Re: Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid)
Reply #2 - Jun 27th, 2016 at 12:19pm
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harharharhar wrote on Jun 27th, 2016 at 12:03pm:
Here's the build posted on mobos: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/463636-Some-New-Thrower-Builds?p=56613...

I dont mind someone being like "hey, I updated this build since it's been a few updates". That's totally cool. But link the original.

And that's not my video, so that's just someone who made my build.

Incorrect.

You linked to a Human 12/6/2 Ranger/Monk/Fighter.  This is a Half-Elf 12/6/2 Monk/Ranger/Fighter.

The build in your mobo thread above the one you linked to is actually closer but it is 14/6 Monk/Ranger with no fighter levels so it's still not the same.

I have thoroughly enjoyed running a slight varation of your 12/6/2 Ranger shuri the past 4-5 months and it's a wrecking machine on trash and bosses.  I also have a lot of respect for the work you did on shuri builds in the past but jeez dude, relax and stop getting a tight sphincter any time someone else posts a shuriken build.

From watching that video and comparing it to my own experiences with the Ranger version, it's possible that the Monk version might be slightly better.
« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2016 at 12:23pm by Digimonk »  
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Re: Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid)
Reply #3 - Jun 27th, 2016 at 12:37pm
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Digimonk wrote on Jun 27th, 2016 at 12:19pm:
Incorrect.

You linked to a Human 12/6/2 Ranger/Monk/Fighter.  This is a Half-Elf 12/6/2 Monk/Ranger/Fighter.

The build in your mobo thread above the one you linked to is actually closer but it is 14/6 Monk/Ranger with no fighter levels so it's still not the same.

I have thoroughly enjoyed running a slight varation of your 12/6/2 Ranger shuri the past 4-5 months and it's a wrecking machine on trash and bosses.  I also have a lot of respect for the work you did on shuri builds in the past but jeez dude, relax and stop getting a tight sphincter any time someone else posts a shuriken build.

From watching that video and comparing it to my own experiences with the Ranger version, it's possible that the Monk version might be slightly better.



Human/Half Elf was always a variant for these builds. Choose extra feat, or elf AA path. Both offer human damage boosts. I talk about it in my thread.

Minus your misplaced criticism of my accurate build citation, I'm glad you've enjoyed the builds. I spent 3 years playing this game and perfecting them for you to have that enjoyment, focused solely on throwing builds the entire time. And then lots of time posting them on forums so you could try them. Defending them against idiots and morons and haters like FFS, and others.

the 14Monk/6Ranger is the real comparison to this build posted about, as you don't need the fighter levels for feats, and it's just more powerful all around.

Anyway, feel free to debate it, I've corrected the historical record here already.
« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2016 at 12:41pm by harharharhar »  
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Re: Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid)
Reply #4 - Jun 27th, 2016 at 12:46pm
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please...stop...now: the time for these builds is long past, the nerfs to manyshot/10k stars make them a joke; just stop.
  
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Re: Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid)
Reply #5 - Jun 27th, 2016 at 12:53pm
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If you see his bar he's clearly using shroud of the ardent on neck, and the ToEE set

BTW twist A Dance of Flowers instead of Critical Damage
« Last Edit: Aug 25th, 2016 at 7:20pm by Vaultaccount »  
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Re: Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid)
Reply #6 - Jun 27th, 2016 at 12:56pm
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harharharhar wrote on Jun 27th, 2016 at 12:37pm:
Human/Half Elf was always a variant for these builds. Choose extra feat, or elf AA path. Both offer human damage boosts. I talk about it in my thread.

Minus your misplaced criticism of my accurate build citation, I'm glad you've enjoyed the builds. I spent 3 years playing this game and perfecting them for you to have that enjoyment, focused solely on throwing builds the entire time. And then lots of time posting them on forums so you could try them. Defending them against idiots and morons and haters like FFS, and others.


Different class split, different feats (every non-core thrower/bow feat has been switched to something else), radically different AP/enhancement usage, different race, and key differences in playstyle (video vs what you describe in text).

On top of all that - I reverse engineered (with some slight optimization tweaks) this build from looking at the video + a few posts on the tree build thread. If this doesn't qualify as a different build, then I don't know what will/does? Are you claiming ownership and originality on all thrower builds that have monk levels? or that use fury of the wild? or....

Also would like to point out, you explicitly state in the post you linked that taking AA slayer arrow is not worth it. This video shows its definitively worth it - as has my individual game time and spreadsheeting.
  
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Re: Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid)
Reply #7 - Jun 27th, 2016 at 12:57pm
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harharharhar wrote on Jun 27th, 2016 at 12:37pm:
Human/Half Elf was always a variant for these builds. Choose extra feat, or elf AA path. Both offer human damage boosts. I talk about it in my thread.

Minus your misplaced criticism of my accurate build citation, I'm glad you've enjoyed the builds. I spent 3 years playing this game and perfecting them for you to have that enjoyment, focused solely on throwing builds the entire time. And then lots of time posting them on forums so you could try them. Defending them against idiots and morons and haters like FFS, and others.

the 14Monk/6Ranger is the real comparison to this build posted about, as you don't need the fighter levels for feats, and it's just more powerful all around.

Anyway, feel free to debate it, I've corrected the historical record here already.


This is totally stupid. It's like saying anyone who plays a Barb is a variant of "Zodaroth" build, even if the build is fucking obvious and most people do almost the same of that despite the fact that they don't even know the game has a forum.
« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2016 at 12:57pm by Vaultaccount »  
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Re: Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid)
Reply #8 - Jun 27th, 2016 at 1:14pm
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Vaultaccount wrote on Jun 27th, 2016 at 12:53pm:
If you see his bar he's clearly using shroud of the ardent on neck, and the ToEE set, but I talked to him lately and he changed the gear. These things are different:

Main Weapon LGS Shuri Vacuum Neg/Dex/forgot (bow is same)
Weapon off hand LGS shortsword wisdom/wisdom/wisdom
Armor Outift of Celestial Avenger is giving unlisted doubleshot
Helm Pansophic Circle
Cloak Earthen Mantle
Gloves Curcible Gloves
Ring 2 Constituion of Kinetic Lore
Boots: forgot but I think it was DoJ ones. It is possible that he's using those boots from Detour for ghostly, because he doesn't use Mentau as you can see on the vid.
He probably is using the pendant now instead of shroud on the neck because the outfit covers most of what the shroud did, except the amp, so I think he just dumped the amp

I am not the guy but I'm form his server and play with him a lot. In Cannith end game circle there are quite some people using that build. Another one that was kinda popular too was 18monk/2ranger. I say was because almost every furyshoter on the server was 18/2 mnk/rgr, but now most have changed to 12/6/2/ mnk/rgr/ftr. It is better DPS with 10k stars but you loose sniper shot. I belive the 18/2 split is still better DPS overall.

BTW twist A Dance of Flowers instead of Critical Damage


Thanks for your response! Would love to talk to the guy who came up with this variant, I'm enjoying it a lot on live since I switched. I've taken the liberty of changing some stuff in order to optimize for dps and my playstyle.

Items are different because I tweaked some stuff (feats are also different by a few). 20 ranged power is a lot to give up (optimizing for dps, no way you can afford to drop this). He uses force arrow exclusively in video, I favor electric arrow as I use a toee set so spellpower is already built in. A couple other tweaks (I have dex 15 insight dex 6 gloves so obviously that slot is taken). Basically minute customization/optimization changes... Smiley


18/2 vs 12/6/2 - haven't done the math or empirically tested, but I'm doubting 18/2 is higher dps atm. Nothing in the monk trees or harper worth losing sniper shot (in the 12/6/2 build, its empirically ~29-34% of your total dps when bursting, and roughly 37-42% of your total dps when sustained).


A dance of flower adds ~3.75 damage per hit (if you say 50% bow 50% shuriken), assuming 1[w] is applying as it should (there have been reports that it actually applies .5 multiplier before adding. Vs 6 seeker. The more you attack with shuriken the more the seeker is favored. A dance of flowers is probably better overall though. I actually was thinking about restructuring them if possible to get pierce the gloom for furyshot on kittykat.


Definitely some room for improvement (I'm missing 2 ranger past lives on my toon, I might need to grind those out).
« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2016 at 1:15pm by Dr Faustus »  
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Re: Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid)
Reply #9 - Jun 27th, 2016 at 1:55pm
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Epic Destiny is identical
Twists idenitcal
Feats are identical
AP's are identical (I've always given 2 paths: elf AA or DWS path, but AA previously was slower to kill red names as of update 29/30ish)
Haper+6AP in Ninja Spy all totally the same
Equipment is identical except I quit and you've added in some leg GS which wasn't out the last time I posted a build with excecption of Enchant focused Terror stars build using Terror arrow

Only other diff is updates, not any actual substantial changes or improvements.

Many lolz being had, youre welcome for all the of the years of effort. This is like when libertarians say they don't want to pay taxes but they made their fortunes on roads built by tax dollars, and protected by government funded security and a stable government organized financial system.
  
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Re: Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid)
Reply #10 - Jun 27th, 2016 at 1:56pm
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Vaultaccount wrote on Jun 27th, 2016 at 12:57pm:
This is totally stupid. It's like saying anyone who plays a Barb is a variant of "Zodaroth" build, even if the build is fucking obvious and most people do almost the same of that despite the fact that they don't even know the game has a forum.


Its not even close to that. These are deeply multiclass builds utilizing multiple destiny and AP choices and multiple combat styles.

I wouldn't expect you to understand.
  
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Re: Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid)
Reply #11 - Jun 27th, 2016 at 2:22pm
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harharharhar wrote on Jun 27th, 2016 at 12:37pm:
Human/Half Elf was always a variant for these builds. Choose extra feat, or elf AA path. Both offer human damage boosts. I talk about it in my thread.

Minus your misplaced criticism of my accurate build citation, I'm glad you've enjoyed the builds. I spent 3 years playing this game and perfecting them for you to have that enjoyment, focused solely on throwing builds the entire time. And then lots of time posting them on forums so you could try them. Defending them against idiots and morons and haters like FFS, and others.

the 14Monk/6Ranger is the real comparison to this build posted about, as you don't need the fighter levels for feats, and it's just more powerful all around.

Anyway, feel free to debate it, I've corrected the historical record here already.

You just don't get it, do you?  Misplaced criticism?  The only thing misplaced in this thread is your attempt to claim ownership and credit for a build that you never posted.

It's a shame really.  You gained a lot of respect back when you first posted your Meteor Shower and Dark Star builds.  But now you consistently lose that respect with the petty name calling and posting "but mah builds!!!!" in pretty much every shuriken thread since.

You *talked* about variants in your build thread.  Great... good for you.  You didn't flesh them out and post a full build?  Not your builds then.  Used your ideas/builds for a starting point?  Maybe, but still not your build.

If you want to be that loose in the definition of build ownership, all you did was rip off the classic Monkcher splits and add Shuriken.  Hell, you even talked about using a bow for furyshot.  Did you give attribution to the original creators of the Monkcher builds?...

If your builds are as good as you say, they'll stand on their own merits.  Other people will praise them without you having to do or say anything.  Trash-talking other people and their builds doesn't make your own look any better.  It just makes you appear petty and desperate to remain relevant.  It's kind of like this:  "How do you know Jakeelala is a DDO shuriken build creator?  Don't worry, he will tell you."

Most of us are interested in having a respectful, mature conversation about the pros and cons of this particular build versus other shuriken builds (yours included).  Reference this bow build thread for an example of productive back and forth discussion of the pros and cons of the possible class splits.  Notice the lack of name calling and pleas for attribution and credit?

« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2016 at 2:36pm by Digimonk »  
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Re: Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid)
Reply #12 - Jun 27th, 2016 at 8:23pm
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Is the racial AA crit multiplier functioning?
  
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Re: Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid)
Reply #13 - Jun 27th, 2016 at 9:13pm
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gibbon wrote on Jun 27th, 2016 at 8:23pm:
Is the racial AA crit multiplier functioning?


Sorta. I've had to reset my enhancements a few times when it "stopped working" all of a sudden after a relog. I simply test to see if its working on ship by hitting training dummy. If it isn't then I reset. If it is, I'm good (I think) till I relog. Its a pain in the ass, and for the most part it works fine but definitely something I want them to fix. (a little bit more annoying than the arcane critical pl bug imo)
  
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Re: Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid)
Reply #14 - Jun 27th, 2016 at 9:15pm
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Hey Jakee. Relax. lol You don't have a fucking patent on that shit, lol

  

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Re: Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid)
Reply #15 - Jun 27th, 2016 at 9:26pm
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harharharhar wrote on Jun 27th, 2016 at 1:55pm:
Epic Destiny is identical
Twists idenitcal
Feats are identical
AP's are identical (I've always given 2 paths: elf AA or DWS path, but AA previously was slower to kill red names as of update 29/30ish)
Haper+6AP in Ninja Spy all totally the same
Equipment is identical except I quit and you've added in some leg GS which wasn't out the last time I posted a build with excecption of Enchant focused Terror stars build using Terror arrow

Only other diff is updates, not any actual substantial changes or improvements.

Many lolz being had, youre welcome for all the of the years of effort. This is like when libertarians say they don't want to pay taxes but they made their fortunes on roads built by tax dollars, and protected by government funded security and a stable government organized financial system.


Epic destiny is the same for every fury ranged build ever....

Twists for the most part are going to be the same on every thrower build ever.... (whirling wrists, grim precision, cocoon, enlightenment). After doing the math, I've now switched out critical damage for a dance of flowers as was suggested.

AP is drastically different. Even if you count listing out a possibility as one of your builds, you listed out AA combo using ranger tree not racial (see quote below). You wouldn't lose 20% doubleshot if you had taken racial AA tree.
Quote:
Additionally, Slayer and Sniper are not mutually exclusive. You could take Slayer and Sniper, but you lose 5 damage, 20% Archers Focus damage on red names, 20% Doubleshot, and Head Shot which I find very useful for the Blind. I'd rather not lose all of that for the small extra damage Slayer Arrow offers over Sniper shot. It is perfectly workable however.

Also, every harper tree for 99.9999999% of builds is going to be the exact same 8 point spread listed - its called common sense. (same goes for ninja, ANT)

Feats aren't identical. You don't take sneak of shadows. You don't take IC:ranged. You don't take silver piercing. You don't take harbinger of chaos / arcane warrior. You don't take scion of ethereal. You don't take epic reflexes. (on top of explicitly not taking all of these things, some of them aren't even mentioned in the entirety of your thread). All the feats that are shared between the 2 builds are in fact the core ranged/thrower feats. Feats that EVERY thrower/ranged build will have and has to have in order to function.

Not to mention, I reverse engineered this build from that video. I haven't claimed credit for the build. I didn't even give credit to the person who made the video - I simply gave credit for whoever came up with the build in the video. It is my opinion (and I think the opinion of other people) that this thrower build is significantly different enough from your builds to warrant its own build title. Also, it didn't take you "3 years" of "hard work" to come up with this build. You didn't come up with comboing adrenaline to special shots (ie slayer). Split breaks, feats, AP are pretty fucking self explanatory if you know what you are doing. It took me ~5 minutes to reverse engineer the feats, AP, destiny, twists; it took me this little time because there isn't much to it - there exists extremely rigid constraints in terms of what you can and can't do. Items took a lot longer due to there being so many different combinations.

I'm a very patient and understanding person. However, you have serious issues dude. Please get some professional help.
« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2016 at 9:38pm by Dr Faustus »  
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Re: Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid)
Reply #16 - Jun 27th, 2016 at 11:33pm
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well you're just a bloody fucking genius.
  
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Re: Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid)
Reply #17 - Jun 27th, 2016 at 11:36pm
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Dr Faustus wrote on Jun 27th, 2016 at 9:26pm:
Please get some professional help.

aren't you the doctor?
  

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Re: Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid)
Reply #18 - Jun 28th, 2016 at 1:14am
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Rubbinns wrote on Jun 27th, 2016 at 11:36pm:
aren't you the doctor?


Get undressed, we'll begin the examination shortly...
  

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Re: Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid)
Reply #19 - Jun 28th, 2016 at 1:26am
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Alex DeLarge wrote on Jun 28th, 2016 at 1:14am:
Get undressed, we'll begin the examination shortly...


  
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Re: Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid)
Reply #20 - Jun 28th, 2016 at 12:03pm
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harharharhar wrote on Jun 27th, 2016 at 1:56pm:
Its not even close to that. These are deeply multiclass builds utilizing multiple destiny and AP choices and multiple combat styles.

I wouldn't expect you to understand.


Pretty much the opposite. The build here is totally different from the build you posted. And there is nothing genious on it, nobody gives a dam for who made the build first, so why do you?

You don't have to be a genious to use FotW on archer, and if you thought about that you are not unique. You don't have to be a genious to see the synergy between 10k stars and bow users, and you are not special if you thought about it. You don't have to be a genious to take sniper shot + AA capstone, and you are not special if you do. You don't have to be a genious to take the ranged feats...

I mean, seriously, all this is obvious stuff, just like it is when making a barb. There isn't any difference.

And by the way the video guy don't use Sneak of Shadows, Silver Piercing, Scion of Ethereal and Epic Reflexes, so all 3 builds are different and nobody yes door who created them. Go get some help.
  
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Re: Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid)
Reply #21 - Jun 28th, 2016 at 12:11pm
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You people just don't understand.  If the toon is throwing something, it is clearly ripping off Jak becuase he implemented throwing into existence into the game.  HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT.
  
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Re: Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid)
Reply #22 - Jun 28th, 2016 at 1:36pm
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DoRayEgon wrote on Jun 28th, 2016 at 12:11pm:
You people just don't understand.  If the toon is throwing something, it is clearly ripping off Jak becuase he implemented throwing into existence into the game.  HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT.


Finally
  
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Re: Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid)
Reply #23 - Jun 28th, 2016 at 1:40pm
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Vaultaccount wrote on Jun 28th, 2016 at 12:03pm:
And by the way the video guy don't use Sneak of Shadows, Silver Piercing, Scion of Ethereal and Epic Reflexes, so all 3 builds are different and nobody yes door who created them. Go get some help.


That's because almost all of these are terrible. You don't need epic reflexes. Sneak of Shadows + Scion Ethereal requires you to focus gear on sneak attack vulnerability that you otherwise wouldn't need to. Taking a spell damage feat instead is generally a much better way to go. Especially coupled with ToEE set using a caster weapon. I considered all of these things. And if you're using elemental arrow damage from AA, you really should be taking a spell damage feat that is complementary.


  
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Re: Furicannon Build (Thrower/Bow hybrid)
Reply #24 - Jun 28th, 2016 at 1:59pm
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harharharhar wrote on Jun 28th, 2016 at 1:40pm:
That's because almost all of these are terrible. You don't need epic reflexes. Sneak of Shadows + Scion Ethereal requires you to focus gear on sneak attack vulnerability that you otherwise wouldn't need to. Taking a spell damage feat instead is generally a much better way to go. Especially coupled with ToEE set using a caster weapon. I considered all of these things. And if you're using elemental arrow damage from AA, you really should be taking a spell damage feat that is complementary.




Silver piercing and epic reflexes are definitely terrible.
  
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