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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) The hostages are free to talk (Read 23388 times)
Yobai
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Re: The hostages are free to talk
Reply #50 - Dec 22nd, 2016 at 11:28pm
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Frank wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 11:24pm:
The reality is that it's often the people who are closest to the customers who can provide the best ideas about how to better support those customers. A strict focus on the technology is often not the best way to provide the best service.



so true.  seen this on the business side at several companies as well.  devs in one silo, testers and end users in another.
  

Revaulting wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 8:16pm:
Have you tried a lower difficulty, such as the official forums?
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Yobai
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Re: The hostages are free to talk
Reply #51 - Dec 22nd, 2016 at 11:33pm
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Yobai wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 7:44pm:


As for the exact figures, we were told at the time (this is going back 5 years now almost to the day) and the upfront was as I recall less than 100 million. My friends and I were privately stunned.  As I said, it felt like we were being bought out at cost."


so if WB bought all of Turban and its titles for less than $100 million, what did SS pay Turban for DDO?  $10million?  $5?
  

Revaulting wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 8:16pm:
Have you tried a lower difficulty, such as the official forums?
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Revaulting
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Re: The hostages are free to talk
Reply #52 - Dec 23rd, 2016 at 12:35am
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Yobai wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 11:33pm:
so if WB bought all of Turban and its titles for less than $100 million, what did SS pay Turban for DDO?  $10million?  $5?

They're the ones who think it's worth the most. So prolly 500 mil. Maybe 2 bil.
  

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Sim-Sala-Bim
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Re: The hostages are free to talk
Reply #53 - Dec 23rd, 2016 at 1:45am
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Yobai wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 8:08pm:
Those were the best parts of his/her posts sifted out of 59 pages of BB forum dreck.


Nice read.

Smiley
  
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Re: The hostages are free to talk
Reply #54 - Dec 23rd, 2016 at 12:58pm
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The thing about the game economy worries me most. Like other companies higher actual economists to do analysts of their in-game economies, because a healthy in-game economy is a HUGE part of an MMO. Turbine's complete lack of fucks is disturbing.
  

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Re: The hostages are free to talk
Reply #55 - Dec 23rd, 2016 at 12:58pm
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Lhynn wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 7:32pm:
This is probably the best thread on the site, thanks for filtering these gems yobai.

You're new here, eh? Grin
  
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Lhynn
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Re: The hostages are free to talk
Reply #56 - Dec 23rd, 2016 at 5:34pm
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Strake wrote on Dec 23rd, 2016 at 12:58pm:
You're new here, eh? Grin

Indeed.
  
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Re: The hostages are free to talk
Reply #57 - Dec 23rd, 2016 at 6:22pm
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Yobai wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 6:34pm:
"I would comment that Turbine was not particularly open about it's tech even in-house. One of the things that amazed me at ZOS was QA's having access to all the same tools as the developers. We were in fact encouraged to play with them, build quest chains, mobs, skills, and everything else. And it was a great idea, too, as not only could QA precisely identify how something was broken, often we could actually fix the bugs ourselves and save the devs the time. Moreover any QA brought over to devside could be expected to already know the tools, saving weeks of training time. I imagine that paid ZOS a lot of dividends in the home stretch.

But such was unthinkable at Turbine.


That's fucking mind-boggling.  Good QA is hard.  It's like film editing - tedious, unpleasant, under-rated and unappreciated work with a serious impact.  If you find somebody who actually enjoys doing that, you have to give them every possible advantage.  If your developers treat your QA like some sort of adversary, you're fucked from the start.
  

Daggertooth wrote on Apr 14th, 2017 at 6:52pm:
I'm pretty fucking sure I am a special snowflake.


Frank wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 8:32am:
Laugh it up, funny man.
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Re: The hostages are free to talk
Reply #58 - Dec 23rd, 2016 at 6:34pm
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Yobai wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 7:26pm:
"...a game with no distinct personality or sense of design continuity, a hodge-podge of borrowed, half-realized, and abandoned systems."


And they're not even talking about DDO!
  
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Re: The hostages are free to talk
Reply #59 - Dec 24th, 2016 at 6:45am
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Attaboy for Yobai.
  
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Re: The hostages are free to talk
Reply #60 - Dec 24th, 2016 at 2:43pm
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Thank you for your service.
  

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Re: The hostages are free to talk
Reply #61 - Dec 24th, 2016 at 3:15pm
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Yobai wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 11:33pm:
so if WB bought all of Turban and its titles for less than $100 million, what did SS pay Turban for DDO?  $10million?  $5?


This wouldnt surprise me. WB sold WCW for a total of $4.2 to WWE just because Barry Diller didn't want Ted Turner's redneck stuff on cable channels that he managed.
  

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Re: The hostages are free to talk
Reply #62 - Dec 24th, 2016 at 3:18pm
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you forgot something stupid

Barkabout wrote on Dec 24th, 2016 at 3:15pm:
This wouldnt surprise me. WB sold WCW for a total of $4.2 million to WWE just because Barry Diller didn't want Ted Turner's redneck stuff on cable channels that he managed.


  

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Re: The hostages are free to talk
Reply #63 - Dec 25th, 2016 at 12:44am
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Yobai wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 11:33pm:
so if WB bought all of Turban and its titles for less than $100 million, what did SS pay Turban for DDO?  $10million?  $5?


The company now vs then is probably much different in terms of assets and revenue and expense.  Also the previous was an acquisition of a company.  Assets and liabilities.  This is just and asset sale of two specific assets. It would be hard to gauge. Most software company asset purchases are heavily based on a multiple of EBITDA.   Unless you have their last 3 years financials you would just be pulling numbers out of your ass.  There's no way to know.
  
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Re: The hostages are free to talk
Reply #64 - Dec 25th, 2016 at 3:56am
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Asheras wrote on Dec 25th, 2016 at 12:44am:
you would just be pulling numbers out of your ass.  There's no way to know.



That pretty much sums up 99,9% of posts here.
  
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Re: The hostages are free to talk
Reply #65 - Dec 25th, 2016 at 5:08pm
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DDONoob wrote on Dec 25th, 2016 at 3:56am:
That pretty much sums up 99,9% of posts here.

That number smells like ass.
« Last Edit: Dec 25th, 2016 at 5:08pm by Toke »  

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Re: The hostages are free to talk
Reply #66 - Dec 25th, 2016 at 7:51pm
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Re: The hostages are free to talk
Reply #67 - Jan 4th, 2017 at 12:22am
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Thanks for posting this Yobai.

Like you said (sadly) a lot of the hypotheses posted in the forums was frighteningly close to the mark.

This thread validated a lot of my suspicions and even gave me some sympathy for the staff in general.

I'd like to learn more about why DDO was a "lame duck" and a "bomb" and why WotC wouldn't license Forgotten Realms or answer their phone calls (I suspect Perfect World and Never winter had something to do with this, but that's mere speculation on my part).
« Last Edit: Jan 4th, 2017 at 12:26am by Metal-Beast »  

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Re: The hostages are free to talk
Reply #68 - Jan 5th, 2017 at 11:53am
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Chances are nothing is going to change on the Dev front now, taking over themselves means no one is going to force them to look at their mistakes.
  
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Technomage
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Re: The hostages are free to talk
Reply #69 - Jan 5th, 2017 at 1:18pm
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Quote:
Chances are nothing is going to change on the Dev front now, taking over themselves means no one is going to force them to look at their mistakes.

As if there was EVER someone who forced them to look at their mistakes.  Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: Jan 5th, 2017 at 1:23pm by Technomage »  

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Asheras
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Re: The hostages are free to talk
Reply #70 - Jan 5th, 2017 at 1:48pm
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Chances are nothing is going to change on the Dev front now, taking over themselves means no one is going to force them to look at their mistakes.


I have no personal knowledge of the people at SSG, but it has not been my experience that people who leave a corporation and start their own entrepreneurial venture are less diligent or motivated. 

Quite the opposite.  Speaking from my own experience, when I started my software business branching off from a large corporation with my team from that corporation, we were all worked longer hours, with more dedication and cared more about the product.  Because it was ours.  There was a sense of ownership that didn't exist when we worked for E Corp as a clock puncher.  Part of that may have been the stock options and profit sharing.  There was a sense that everyone would win if the company won.  I have heard the same sort of mentality from others who have gone through the same transition.

That said, I don't know how SSG is organized and if the rank and file have "skin in the game".  I'm not saying my experience is relevant or accurate.  I'm sure a lot of this stuff has to do with individual personalities and priorities and work ethics.  But I've just never heard of a group of people starting their own business so they can just slack off even more.
  
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Re: The hostages are free to talk
Reply #71 - Jan 5th, 2017 at 2:10pm
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You're looking at it as though they 'started their own business' as opposed to the more likely option that they were forced to accept  the DDO and LoTR properties as a proforma severance package, rather than being laid off when WB rolled up the games. Sure they will work hard, but if it's the later case (which I have seen before) the low totem pole staff will be working harder at looking for new jobs knowing that the ship is now being steered by the people who brought the games into the duldrums that undercut them in the first place to the extent that WB was ready to pull the plug.

Just sayin. 
« Last Edit: Jan 5th, 2017 at 2:11pm by Grand »  
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Re: The hostages are free to talk
Reply #72 - Jan 5th, 2017 at 3:50pm
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Yobai wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 5:15pm:
"A cynic might suggest that the Paizs had flat lined DDO already and when Ascherons Call's concurrency numbers are beating DDO on a nightly basis, you can only go up from there.

LOTRO was certainly ailing when they made the call to go f2p. We all assumed it would happen eventually but not so soon. In March or thereabouts in '10 an email went out from Crowley stating that LOTRO's US subs were down to around 85k (the only time specific sub numbers were ever mentioned even in-house while I was there) and could we maybe ask our friends to try the game?"


So, LoTRO only had 85K subs back in 2010, with DDO usually having about 25% the player base. 20K of so DDO players in 2010 has probably dropped at least another 70%.

I would be shocked if DDO currently had more then a couple thousand subs and around 10K total players.

The fucking delusional ass wipes on the mobo's that constantly claim there are tens of thousands of people playing DDO are fucking brainless.


  
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Re: The hostages are free to talk
Reply #73 - Jan 5th, 2017 at 4:17pm
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Turd_Ferguson wrote on Jan 5th, 2017 at 3:50pm:
I would be shocked if DDO currently had more then a couple thousand subs and around 10K total players.






Depends on how you define "players", I suppose. Once a month? Week?

But, I agree that it's probably <20k total unless you count super casual occasional players.

A couple of years ago I was semi-regularly logging on to each server and counting players logged on. It was usually averaging around 600 people per server. So, <5k total even at peak times. I haven't checked in a while. But, casual check on Khyber recently says it's still in that neighborhood.
« Last Edit: Jan 5th, 2017 at 4:20pm by Head-Meat »  


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Re: The hostages are free to talk
Reply #74 - Jan 5th, 2017 at 4:58pm
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Asheras wrote on Jan 5th, 2017 at 1:48pm:
I have no personal knowledge of the people at SSG, but it has not been my experience that people who leave a corporation and start their own entrepreneurial venture are less diligent or motivated. 

How many of those entrepreneurial ventures were based on supporting a legacy product, and one that has no real future?
  

Daggertooth wrote on Apr 14th, 2017 at 6:52pm:
I'm pretty fucking sure I am a special snowflake.


Frank wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 8:32am:
Laugh it up, funny man.
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