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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma (Read 39102 times)
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Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Dec 31st, 2016 at 11:51pm
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This is not my build. It is Seagryn's. Some of the gear may be wrong because its constantly getting shuffled. Close enough. It is a realistically max'd AC build. I played it and felt it was awesome even though I was missing some of the gear. Cheers to this guy. This is a great build.

---
---

Level      Fighter 14 / Paladin 5 / Wizard 1
Race      Human



Feats

Heroic      
1      Toughness
3      Past Life: Barbarian | Completionist
6      Empower Healing
9      Skill Focus: Intimidate
12      Toughness
15      Dragonmark of Sentinel
18      Past Life: Fighter
Bonus      
1H      Toughness
1W      Quicken Spell
     
1F      Dodge
2F      Shield Mastery
4F      Mobility
6F      Improved Shield Mastery
8F      Combat Expertise
10F      Heavy Armor Master
12F      Spring Attack
14F      Heavy Armor Champion
Epic      
21      Toughness
24      Epic Toughness
27      Epic Reflexes
30      Toughness
Destiny      
26D      ESF: Intimidate
28D      Elusive Target
29D      Fount of Life
Legend      
30L      Scion of Celestia
Earned      
     Draconic Vigor
     Coin Lord Training

Slot      Setup Augments
Head      Legendary Hardened Hide Helmet      Elemental Victory swap      
Neck      LGS            
Eyes      LGS            
Body      Platemail of the Celestial Sage            MDB +2, Power 250
Trinket      Legendary Planar Compass            
Back      Legendary Slavemaster's Cloak      Spell Absorb Swap      
Wrists      LGS            
Hands      LGS            
Waist      SLC            
Ring      SLC            
Ring      CC      DEX,      
Feet      Boots of Blessed Travels            
                 
Mainhand      LGS - Positive      Devotion, Amp, Amp      
Offhand      CC      Devotion, False Life, INS Intimidate      

ac      368
Imp Mage Armor      31
CE      31
aura      6
base      10
armor      41
extra armor      53
shield      25
extra shield      33
ship      9
dex      19
natural armor      22
protection      14
rituals      2
insightful      7
epl      45
ap      6
hardened      15

CON      70
base      16
levelups      7
tome      6
stance      6
item      17
goib      1
ap      2
insightful      7
yugo      2
ship      2
quality      4

hp      3505
stance      412
lgs opposition      619
strength of vitality      412.4
base      198
epic      100
feats      176
durability      35
vitality      20
false life      57
CON      900
ship      20
yugo      20
ap      51
scion      150
pl      135
destiny      200

prr      291
sheltering      38
mythic      4
insightful      17
ap      25
stance      25
feats      21
ce      20
blitz      30
epl      36
shield mastery      25
shield      10
heavy armor      38
tome      2

intim      140
base      23
epic      10
feats      17
item      22
quality      5
insight      11
luck      2
twist of fate      6
CHA      16
ap      15
gh      4
spider mask      1
tome      5
ePL      3


MDB      21

base armor      6
ship buff      2
fighter      3
paladin      3
boots      2
pl feat      1
augment      2
mobility      2

dodge      20
item      12
feats      5
iPL      3
« Last Edit: Dec 31st, 2016 at 11:53pm by WonderfulFoppyBint »  

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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #1 - Jan 1st, 2017 at 2:15am
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0 soloability, 0 dps Cheesy. Strictly for party play.
  

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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #2 - Jan 1st, 2017 at 8:15am
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Are lays also nerfed on reaper?
Didnt try em, entirely forgot to test
  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #3 - Jan 1st, 2017 at 8:34am
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Is it possible to do dwarf instead?   You lose a feat and the hamp but could gain the 4% hp and the prr action boost and the throw your weight around for some damage.   I didn't see stats but it looked like a lot of points in con and cha.   Strength is probably mid 50's ish? 

I also wonder about dropping the stalwart defender stuff and doing some Kensai for the power surge and +8 to all stats.  That would help the hp and the intim as well as make it a bit more capable in dealing damage. Given the diminishing returns on ac and prr at the highest levels I'm not sure you are giving up much defensively.
  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #4 - Jan 1st, 2017 at 8:40am
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Also. What about helf for race instead of human.  To get the second intim?  Since your dps is shit you need to use that to hold Aggro.   Just keep your helmet on to hide that face
  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #5 - Jan 1st, 2017 at 11:00am
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Alex DeLarge wrote on Jan 1st, 2017 at 2:15am:
0 soloability, 0 dps Cheesy. Strictly for party play.


ya lol

Lelouch wrote on Jan 1st, 2017 at 8:15am:
Are lays also nerfed on reaper?
Didnt try em, entirely forgot to test


Yes.
Take a look at Light the Dark. Massive heals for people with lay on hands.

Asheras wrote on Jan 1st, 2017 at 8:34am:
Is it possible to do dwarf instead?   You lose a feat and the hamp but could gain the 4% hp and the prr action boost and the throw your weight around for some damage.   I didn't see stats but it looked like a lot of points in con and cha.   Strength is probably mid 50's ish? 


Lets look and see if dwarf would be better. Keep in mind though that I don't have access to Seagryn's AC spreadsheets.

If you want to do damage and tank then I would go with a monk tank---it can get about 75% of the defensive effectiveness of this with 120 melee power and TWF khopeshes. My front number on this MagicTurtlePig was single digits in reaper, and I didn't feel like I had a lot of time to be doing damage anyway. There are scenarios where you could but throwing renewal on others is more useful.

Before we look at dwarf...
dwarven PRR boost causes -50% movement speed and has a long cooldown

HUMAN
1 feat
1.6 healing amp multiplier

DWARF
4 con
15% shield AC
Radiant Forcefield Dragonmark with only 1min cooldown
4% HP

H-ELF
Diplomatic Impunity (Activate: Reduce physical damage you take by 25% for 15 seconds or until you attack. Until you rest you have -2 Diplomacy (stacks up to 100 times). On a shared cooldown with Half-Elven Social Graces, and your total Diplomacy score must be positive to use this ability. (Cooldown: 1 minute).

CONCLUSION
You could go dwarf for flavor, but you'll make the healer work harder. The marginal increase in health for a substantial increase in healing amp is apples to oranges. I would go with healing amp. Again this build is kinda above my pay grade. I focus on DPS builds. This guy has been making tanks since TOD came out.

Asheras wrote on Jan 1st, 2017 at 8:34am:
I also wonder about dropping the stalwart defender stuff and doing some Kensai for the power surge and +8 to all stats.  That would help the hp and the intim as well as make it a bit more capable in dealing damage. Given the diminishing returns on ac and prr at the highest levels I'm not sure you are giving up much defensively. 


A tank with less than optimal defensive set-up might work fine for you.
This is a concept build of the most powerful tank available. (I'm pretty sure AC can't go higher.)
It only took 3 swings from a trash mob in SKULL 10 to kill the Turtle, but it got hit so seldom as to be comedic. We won't know the reaper meta until the rewards hit but this thing is solid.
« Last Edit: Jan 1st, 2017 at 11:03am by WonderfulFoppyBint »  

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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #6 - Jan 1st, 2017 at 11:33am
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WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Jan 1st, 2017 at 11:00am:
ya lol


Yes.
Take a look at Light the Dark. Massive heals for people with lay on hands.


Lets look and see if dwarf would be better. Keep in mind though that I don't have access to Seagryn's AC spreadsheets.

If you want to do damage and tank then I would go with a monk tank---it can get about 75% of the defensive effectiveness of this with 120 melee power and TWF khopeshes. My front number on this MagicTurtlePig was single digits in reaper, and I didn't feel like I had a lot of time to be doing damage anyway. There are scenarios where you could but throwing renewal on others is more useful.

Before we look at dwarf...
dwarven PRR boost causes -50% movement speed and has a long cooldown

HUMAN
1 feat
1.6 healing amp multiplier

DWARF
4 con
15% shield AC
Radiant Forcefield Dragonmark with only 1min cooldown
4% HP

H-ELF
Diplomatic Impunity (Activate: Reduce physical damage you take by 25% for 15 seconds or until you attack. Until you rest you have -2 Diplomacy (stacks up to 100 times). On a shared cooldown with Half-Elven Social Graces, and your total Diplomacy score must be positive to use this ability. (Cooldown: 1 minute).

CONCLUSION
You could go dwarf for flavor, but you'll make the healer work harder. The marginal increase in health for a substantial increase in healing amp is apples to oranges. I would go with healing amp. Again this build is kinda above my pay grade. I focus on DPS builds. This guy has been making tanks since TOD came out.


A tank with less than optimal defensive set-up might work fine for you.
This is a concept build of the most powerful tank available. (I'm pretty sure AC can't go higher.)
It only took 3 swings from a trash mob in SKULL 10 to kill the Turtle, but it got hit so seldom as to be comedic. We won't know the reaper meta until the rewards hit but this thing is solid.


The dwarf is probably a nonstarter.   The helf seems more viable, depending on whether you are having trouble holding Aggro.  You don't give up much defense for better Aggro management.   I've not seen any videos of this guy though.  Was he having trouble holding Aggro when intim was on timer?   What is the play style?  Shield block and intim?
  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #7 - Jan 1st, 2017 at 11:44am
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The kensai is bringing a lot of hp to the table with the power surges.  120 before multipliers.  At that prr that's a solid boost.  You are losing what looks like about 28 ac or so.  I'm not sure what the diff is on 340 vs 368.  If it is worth it to get an extra 150 hp or so.  And +4 on the Intim and the saves boost. 

I'd imagine it needs some play testing.  Reaper is unknown and ac in those ranges is kinda rarely tested.  There is a sweet spot in just not sure where it is.  I am wary of builds that just go full retard/overkill without analysis tho as the game has programmed in heavily diminishing returns.

I'm not saying that work hasn't been done. Just that I'm not seeing it yet so I'm still looking at all the variables.
  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #8 - Jan 1st, 2017 at 12:11pm
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Asheras wrote on Jan 1st, 2017 at 11:33am:
The dwarf is probably a nonstarter.   The helf seems more viable, depending on whether you are having trouble holding Aggro.  You don't give up much defense for better Aggro management.   I've not seen any videos of this guy though.  Was he having trouble holding Aggro when intim was on timer?   What is the play style?  Shield block and intim? 


let me find the vids



this was from the last Lamma iteration,
I've been too lazy to upload the other ones we did
  

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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #9 - Jan 1st, 2017 at 12:12pm
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Asheras wrote on Jan 1st, 2017 at 11:44am:
I'd imagine it needs some play testing.  Reaper is unknown and ac in those ranges is kinda rarely tested.  There is a sweet spot in just not sure where it is.  I am wary of builds that just go full retard/overkill without analysis tho as the game has programmed in heavily diminishing returns.



+1
  

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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #10 - Jan 1st, 2017 at 12:13pm
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defense is not like the size of titties
  

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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #11 - Jan 2nd, 2017 at 8:16am
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WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Jan 1st, 2017 at 12:13pm:
defense is not like the size of titties



Personally I prefer a Perky defense.
  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #12 - Jan 2nd, 2017 at 12:00pm
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WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Jan 1st, 2017 at 11:00am:
DWARF
4 con
15% shield AC
Radiant Forcefield Dragonmark with only 1min cooldown
4% HP


Dwarf also has racial armor mastery for a stacking +3 dodge and +6 AC (3 for increased max dex, and 3 straight up. Dwarf Fortress adds another stacking untyped 3 AC if you can fit that in.
« Last Edit: Jan 2nd, 2017 at 12:07pm by 5 Foot Step »  

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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #13 - Jan 2nd, 2017 at 12:11pm
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Also, have they added relevant anti kiting effects to reaper yet? Otherwise, it'll just be a dps fest and still not getting hit.
  

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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #14 - Jan 2nd, 2017 at 12:12pm
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It looks a lot like a tweaked version of The Eleven Steel Maiden build on the forums

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/476148-The-Elven-Steel-Maiden-(-AC-Fig...

from what I've been told by someone using the steel maiden build, reaper 10 demolishes it.
  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #15 - Jan 2nd, 2017 at 1:15pm
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Fred Astaire wrote on Jan 2nd, 2017 at 12:12pm:
It looks a lot like a tweaked version of The Eleven Steel Maiden build on the forums

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/476148-The-Elven-Steel-Maiden-(-AC-Fig...

from what I've been told by someone using the steel maiden build, reaper 10 demolishes it. 


The major differences I see in a quick scan between the Steel Maiden and the Turtle are:

1)  Steel Maiden is a STR build.  level ups in STR.  And stats split between Int, Con, Dex, Cha and Str.  The Turtle seems to focus more on Con (Tough to say since the turtle doesn't really give a stat breakdown besides Con).  It isn't starting at a 14, though (the elf is part of what is killing that).  And I think the Cha is higher on Turtle as well.  This results in +5 to the intim, although that is probably also coming from somewhere else.

2)  Steel Maiden  has 1/2 the HP.  That's because the Steel Maiden is trying to do some DPS and tactics.  There is no 5 piece HP LGS Set killing your gear.  There are no multiple toughness feats being taken.  That HP amount (1800-ish) is going to lead to 1 or 2 shotting in 10 skull.  That loss of almost 2k HP is probably a big part of the issue.

3)  The PRR is probably off a little.  But not significantly.  And the Heal amp is probably off by 60 or so. 

I will say that the AC looks like it is on par. 

It looks like Reaper 10 skull is going to require a bit more commitment to defense than Steel Maiden is giving.  Mainly in the area of HP.  I still don't think you need to go full bore like the Turtle did, but this is a bit too far of a swing towards tactics and DPS. 

Just a quick scan.  I do like the thought about the elf and the dragonmark for displacement.  But there are definitely trade offs to that racial choice.
  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #16 - Jan 2nd, 2017 at 1:38pm
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I wanted to try the pally/fighter stacking ac concept since the Steel Maiden thread was posted.
Capped 2 wiz version ( for prr clicky ), epic prr, deific ward, earth scion of this before xmas.
Already regret it, it's the most fucking boring build ever.
Thing had like 240 ac and prr at 20 ( the plan was to try see ac works at level while levelling ) but respecced to kensei after two hours.

Someone convinced me that Emp Hjeal ( and self hjealing ) is a waste in Reaper anyway ( haven't played myself, cuz why the heck would I ), sorc instead of wiz for 6 intim is an option.
« Last Edit: Jan 2nd, 2017 at 1:49pm by Wipe »  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #17 - Jan 2nd, 2017 at 6:11pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 2nd, 2017 at 12:11pm:
Also, have they added relevant anti kiting effects to reaper yet? Otherwise, it'll just be a dps fest and still not getting hit.


LFM of the future:

10S, ranged DPS only, BYOH, be able to raise (All classes deselected except ranger, monk, and rogue)
  

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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #18 - Jan 3rd, 2017 at 3:17pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 2nd, 2017 at 6:11pm:
LFM of the future:

10S, ranged DPS only, BYOH, be able to raise (All classes deselected except ranger, monk, and rogue)


If it goes live anyway like what we saw on Lamania BYOH is impossible.
  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #19 - Jan 3rd, 2017 at 3:22pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 2nd, 2017 at 6:11pm:
LFM of the future:

10S, ranged DPS only, BYOH, be able to raise (All classes deselected except ranger, monk, and rogue)


people keep saying this but honestly I don't see it
the power of a well built tank, 2 high quality CCers and DOD aoe dps is insane

fear reapers are a bitch
and the slowing ones suck as well
« Last Edit: Jan 3rd, 2017 at 3:22pm by WonderfulFoppyBint »  

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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #20 - Jan 3rd, 2017 at 3:31pm
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If SSG gave reaper mobs 2x max player runspeed and auto-teleporting to the player after 5-10s of being unable to reach them via normal pathing = kiting and platform cheesing fixed.

Of course, it would be glorious to see the mass outrage on the motherboards from all the ranged and caster players who have no idea how to manage their aggro.  Which also happens to be exactly why it will likely never happen.

Everquest used a system like this to prevent kiting.  The only mobs that were kite-able were the ones that they specifically intended by tweaking their abilities.
« Last Edit: Jan 3rd, 2017 at 3:34pm by Digimonk »  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #21 - Jan 3rd, 2017 at 3:36pm
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Digimonk wrote on Jan 3rd, 2017 at 3:31pm:
If SSG gave reaper mobs 2x max player runspeed and auto-teleporting to the player after 5-10s of being unable to reach them via normal pathing = kiting and platform cheesing fixed.

Of course, it would be glorious to see the mass outrage on the motherboards from all the ranged and caster players who have no idea how to manage their aggro.  Which also happens to be exactly why it will likely never happen.



All great ideas, or simply make it so we run backwards at half-speed.
Everquest used a system like this to prevent kiting.  The only mobs that were kite-able were the ones that they specifically intended by tweaking their abilities.
« Last Edit: Jan 3rd, 2017 at 3:41pm by Bigjunk »  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #22 - Jan 3rd, 2017 at 3:39pm
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Digimonk wrote on Jan 3rd, 2017 at 3:31pm:
If SSG gave reaper mobs 2x max player runspeed and auto-teleporting to the player after 5-10s of being unable to reach them via normal pathing = kiting and platform cheesing fixed.

Of course, it would be glorious to see the mass outrage on the motherboards from all the ranged and caster players who have no idea how to manage their aggro.  Which also happens to be exactly why it will likely never happen.

Everquest used a system like this to prevent kiting.  The only mobs that were kite-able were the ones that they specifically intended by tweaking their abilities.


+1

I have never tried everquest. Still worth it?
  

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volt_ wrote on Mar 23rd, 2017 at 4:43pm:
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #23 - Jan 3rd, 2017 at 5:48pm
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Bigjunk wrote on Jan 3rd, 2017 at 3:17pm:
If it goes live anyway like what we saw on Lamania BYOH is impossible.


Everyone brings cocoon so they can tag each other with it.

WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Jan 3rd, 2017 at 3:22pm:
people keep saying this but honestly I don't see it
the power of a well built tank, 2 high quality CCers and DOD aoe dps is insane


You think people are going to sit around waiting for a perfect party with 4 slots dedicated to archetypes that no one plays anymore? Screw that. Ain't nobody got time.
  

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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #24 - Jan 3rd, 2017 at 8:54pm
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WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Jan 3rd, 2017 at 3:39pm:
+1

I have never tried everquest. Still worth it?

No idea what it's like these days to be honest. 

I played it for about 11 years from beta on until the end-game raiding guild I was in retired.   Didn't feel like joining any other guilds so I retired, too, and haven't logged back into it in about 4 years.

Loved the game back then, but it definitely required more of a serious commitment and time investment to be end-game than DDO does.

  
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