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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma (Read 39101 times)
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #50 - Jan 7th, 2017 at 6:42am
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Digimonk wrote on Jan 6th, 2017 at 12:34pm:
Based on past experience, I expect that about two weeks from now you'll find out that this past week SSG acknowledged there are issues with the current aggro coding due to the recent changes and are working to fix them.

Source?

Because here are the dev posts I've seen on the subject:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/481789-U33-2-aggro-mechanic?p=5915808&...
Quote:
Could you quote me what I said that has you doubting any of the above, because outside of some edge cases were trying to run down, isn't the system doing all of the above?

This referring to, well, nothing that is relevant.
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/481789-U33-2-aggro-mechanic?p=5915795&...
Quote:
Bluff difficulty does not increase with each attempt. The wiki appears to be incorrect. I couldn't find evidence of it working this way for a long time either, though it's possible it may of many years back.

Character skills that have bluff like effects do not solo pull currently. Ranger distracting shot, etc, feature the sneak attack vul and turn around distract elements, but the solo pull is exclusive to the skill proper. These enhancement skills don't overtly say they allow for solo pulling but do refer to themselves as "bluff" effects which is naturally confusing. We'll likely touch up their text soon.

Bluff skill has little to do with anything, either.
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/481789-U33-2-aggro-mechanic?p=5915515&...
Quote:
0> That is the plan. There is still a bit to do here and we'll actively be making changes until we feel both systems are working well.

1> So I was hoping to get feedback on bluff difficulty. I can easily believe bluff resistant may be a little to aggressive, but we are trying account for itemization and encourage players to many throw a few enhancement points bluffs way. Madness... I know... given this has been free beer for so long. The formula for bluff resistant is the creatures level + (1 * quest level). Hard multiplies this # by 1.25, and elite 1.5. This may seem a bit much but our thinking is currently that "solo pulling" is a pretty powerful ability so we're trying to calibrate how much of a commitment a player needs to give to do it reliably.

2> All the stuff that exposed creatures to sneak attack damage should still work the same. If that's not the case please post or pm me an example of it failing to do so and we'll try to get it fixed ASAP.

3> Rogue traps haven't been touched in to long. /agreed. Can't give you a time frame on this yet, to busy with stealth/aggro stuff plus reaper and unannounced "stuff", but it's on my list.

4> We are currently testing monsters ignoring aggro share if their friend was "quick" killed by a stealth-ed player while their not facing them. It's looking good so far.

5> So I'd love some more details here. Is this dungeon alert you have an issue with or monster perception in general even when no alert is present? The issue I've currently been investigating is outside the dungeon alert system, and it seems that sometimes monsters looking for me while I'm stealth-ed will sometimes get a position update on me that seems....illogically accurate. Seems to happen more often if I actually move far away to which is counter intuitive as well. I'll figure it out eventually but if you know a location that this happens 100% let me know.

6> Assassinate was original designed for unaggro'd monsters. Still, looking at this from two situations....

A> Using assassinate in active combat with my party: Might be a big power boost? Shrug. Assassinate was originally meant to be a reward for sneaking up on a monster clean. Using it as a general combat skill is worth looking at but would have to be reviewed in the general combat dps track, so it's a bit muddier. Still worth a look.

B> Monsters are hunting me in stealth but aren't actively on me (red eye) or anyone else: This might be more what your hoping to see addressed and effects solo stealth play more. I think part of the problem is the bug, finger of god thing mentioned above?

Some General Comments:

-The aggro assist radius will be shrinking soon to cut down on some "interesting" monster chain reactions. Other steps may be taken, we'll see how it goes.

-We will be taking a look at stealth character game play and trying to find a balance. This will take time (sorry), but it's a complex system, and globally effects content. This will probably take a few iterations to nail it down over several patches, but we intent to steadily punch away at it. I hope to get the "clean kills on monsters if their friends not looking" in pretty soon. We got a lot more know how back on the team since the new company, so expect things to change, even if little by little.

- Please post feedback on bluff difficulty, what's you think a fair bluff score vs target is... hows the duration, etc.

-Torc

And here only 0 addresses the issue, answering the question:
Quote:
0) Keep the pack aggro mechanic but continue tweaks to make assassins/stealth playable again.


So please, if I'm "two weeks behind the curve" then feel free to enlighten me.  I'm sure you'd love nothing better than to be able to point out a "failing" of mine.  Not being able to be or even interested in keeping up with all the disjointed news from Turbine SSG about how they have fucked up yet again being the top of the list of these "failings."

So again, source?  Put up or shut up, Mookie.  Either way I win.  You either give me information which I lack or you admit failure and slink off to do whatever it is you do when you slink off.

  

No, let me be Frank.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 8th, 2016 at 12:39pm:
I've had multiple RoSS rot just from doing the explorer points in Sands across multiple lives since it is exclusive.


Smart players know how to use buyback.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 1:58pm:
I will not chone.

I did what I did intentionally and while my primary purpose was not to annoy the other Vaulties, I acknowledge that it was a side effect.


Smart people don't elicit "side effects."  They understand in advance the consequences of their actions.
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #51 - Jan 7th, 2017 at 12:30pm
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Frank wrote on Jan 7th, 2017 at 6:42am:
hd

LOL
  
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Frank
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #52 - Jan 8th, 2017 at 12:17am
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Digimonk wrote on Jan 7th, 2017 at 12:30pm:
LOL

I see you've chosen the third option:  Realizing that your foot was in your mouth, as usual.
  

No, let me be Frank.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 8th, 2016 at 12:39pm:
I've had multiple RoSS rot just from doing the explorer points in Sands across multiple lives since it is exclusive.


Smart players know how to use buyback.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 1:58pm:
I will not chone.

I did what I did intentionally and while my primary purpose was not to annoy the other Vaulties, I acknowledge that it was a side effect.


Smart people don't elicit "side effects."  They understand in advance the consequences of their actions.
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #53 - Jan 8th, 2017 at 1:38am
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Frank wrote on Jan 8th, 2017 at 12:17am:
FAIL.

  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #54 - Jan 8th, 2017 at 11:45am
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i didnt read the thread that i can remember, but i hope on day 1 theres 50 of these magic sentinel builds all tanking the same mob in the first room and them all debating who to kick from the party to make room to invite a dps toon
  

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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #55 - Jan 9th, 2017 at 1:13am
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eighnuss wrote on Jan 8th, 2017 at 11:45am:
i didnt read the thread that i can remember, but i hope on day 1 theres 50 of these magic sentinel builds all tanking the same mob in the first room and them all debating who to kick from the party to make room to invite a dps toon

It's going to be entertaining to see the return to the days of the "Full group - Just need a cleric/tank/cc" sitting in the LFM window for hours.

This is going to further fragment what is already a low, somewhat unhealthy population.  The powergamers on each server will likely run Reaper almost exclusively to chase those +3s.  The non-powergamers won't be able to cut it in high-level Reaper even if they wanted to.  There will be even less people to fill LFMs on both sides of the spectrum.
  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #56 - Jan 9th, 2017 at 1:37am
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Digimonk wrote on Jan 9th, 2017 at 1:13am:
It's going to be entertaining to see the return to the days of the "Full group - Just need a cleric/tank/cc" sitting in the LFM window for hours.

This is going to further fragment what is already a low, somewhat unhealthy population.  The powergamers on each server will likely run Reaper almost exclusively to chase those +3s.  The non-powergamers won't be able to cut it in high-level Reaper even if they wanted to.  There will be even less people to fill LFMs on both sides of the spectrum.


Please explain to me what you would do to get everyone to play together?

There isn't anything. People have different ways to play this game. For flower sniffers and non-pro's there's more content than they could ever want.

The only thing really lagging is a serious and challenging end game.

The only people who get this backward are the ones who are scared to play in Reaper. I don't understand it.
  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #57 - Jan 9th, 2017 at 10:39am
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harharharhar wrote on Jan 9th, 2017 at 1:37am:
Please explain to me what you would do to get everyone to play together?

There isn't anything. People have different ways to play this game. For flower sniffers and non-pro's there's more content than they could ever want.

The only thing really lagging is a serious and challenging end game.

The only people who get this backward are the ones who are scared to play in Reaper. I don't understand it.

I think you missed my point.  I am not talking about a content or challenge problem.  I am talking about an "enough people to fill the group" problem.

The power gamers will migrate to Reaper.  Some of the more skilled flower sniffers may, too.  If Reaper lives up to its hype though, there won't be room for the power gamers to carry potatoes running flavor builds.

This increased segregation of the power gamers from the potatoes will increase the wait times for the potato LFMs to fill, thus increasing their frustration with the game.  If it continues, they will quit, further increasing the remaining non-reaper players' frustration.  It becomes a self-reinforcing cycle that will hurt the already low server populations.

They should have done some server mergers before releasing reaper.

Then again, who knows.  Merging servers would probably put additional load on the VMs and make lag worse than it already is.
« Last Edit: Jan 9th, 2017 at 10:58am by Digimonk »  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #58 - Jan 9th, 2017 at 3:19pm
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If reaper is done right, any additional DPS, even from potatoes, will be preferable to solo'ing.

That means more potatoes experiencing true end game, which is the only way people go from potato to end gamer.

That IS the cycle. It always has been.

I repeat, reaper is the only chance this game has. If it's successful, then yes lots of new content and marketing would be the next step.

Step one is getting people playing together again, and somewhere for people to stay at end game.
  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #59 - Jan 9th, 2017 at 4:24pm
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harharharhar wrote on Jan 9th, 2017 at 3:19pm:
If reaper is done right, any additional DPS, even from potatoes, will be preferable to solo'ing.

That means more potatoes experiencing true end game, which is the only way people go from potato to end gamer.

That IS the cycle. It always has been.

I repeat, reaper is the only chance this game has. If it's successful, then yes lots of new content and marketing would be the next step.

Step one is getting people playing together again, and somewhere for people to stay at end game.

Heh, ok.  Not sure what game you've been playing but I run missions with guildies, in-game friends from other guilds and random people who join the LFMs on pretty much a daily basis.  Not sure how reaper will make that any better.  In fact, it will ostracize the lower skilled pubs and flavor builds.

I know I'm going to a lot more picky on who joins a high skulls reaper mission than I am an LE Slavers run that I can carry a random, first-lifer turn undead cleric through without risking the mission.

You have fun dragging scrubs through reaper though.  =P

  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #60 - Jan 9th, 2017 at 6:19pm
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I drag everyone through everything and I'm tired of it.

I want a fucking challenge
  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #61 - Jan 10th, 2017 at 2:00am
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harharharhar wrote on Jan 9th, 2017 at 6:19pm:
I drag everyone through everything and I'm tired of it.

I want a fucking challenge

Must be hard being that awesome.   Tongue
  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #62 - Jan 10th, 2017 at 2:25am
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Digimonk wrote on Jan 8th, 2017 at 1:38am:
FAIL

I thought you'd sworn off trolling and had promised to be a good boy going forward?

I guess once a troll always a troll.  It's almost funny how you FAIL at trying not to be a troll.
  

No, let me be Frank.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 8th, 2016 at 12:39pm:
I've had multiple RoSS rot just from doing the explorer points in Sands across multiple lives since it is exclusive.


Smart players know how to use buyback.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 1:58pm:
I will not chone.

I did what I did intentionally and while my primary purpose was not to annoy the other Vaulties, I acknowledge that it was a side effect.


Smart people don't elicit "side effects."  They understand in advance the consequences of their actions.
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #63 - Jan 10th, 2017 at 3:41am
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harharharhar wrote on Jan 9th, 2017 at 6:19pm:
I drag everyone through everything and I'm tired of it.

I want a fucking challenge


How are throwers with red alert and aggro change?
Seems to me that compared to aoe trash builds they cant carry themself to proper completition times atm.
You swap to your shiradi caster now and parke your thrower til they change the aggro?
(killing with impr precise seems so awfully slow for my taste with aggro change since you cant mass them up kill in 2-3 buttons and move on and killing every mob while moving is also tiring)
« Last Edit: Jan 10th, 2017 at 3:45am by Lelouch »  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #64 - Jan 10th, 2017 at 10:34am
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Can any DPS melee toons be successful in Reaper?  Can they survive long enough to be of any use?
  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #65 - Jan 10th, 2017 at 12:19pm
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DoRayEgon wrote on Jan 10th, 2017 at 10:34am:
Can any DPS melee toons be successful in Reaper?  Can they survive long enough to be of any use?


tank + holdbot + 3 DOD tempests + healer = fun imo we had a good time of it
  

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volt_ wrote on Mar 23rd, 2017 at 4:43pm:
Be a container for your genes to control your behavior in order to reproduce
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #66 - Jan 10th, 2017 at 12:42pm
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Lelouch wrote on Jan 10th, 2017 at 3:41am:
How are throwers with red alert and aggro change?
Seems to me that compared to aoe trash builds they cant carry themself to proper completition times atm.
You swap to your shiradi caster now and parke your thrower til they change the aggro?
(killing with impr precise seems so awfully slow for my taste with aggro change since you cant mass them up kill in 2-3 buttons and move on and killing every mob while moving is also tiring)


Full disclosure:

I have not played DDO in a little over a month, previous to the latest aggro changes I think. So I'd be lying if I said it doesn't affect thrower builds, I have no idea.

I would probably just throw up para arrows if it's that bad though, and twist pin.
  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #67 - Jan 10th, 2017 at 1:08pm
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harharharhar wrote on Jan 9th, 2017 at 6:19pm:
I drag everyone through everything and I'm tired of it.

I want a fucking challenge


Come to G-land. If you're not dying, you're not zerging hard enough.
  

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volt_ wrote on Mar 23rd, 2017 at 4:43pm:
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #68 - Jan 10th, 2017 at 2:10pm
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I can solo everything on LE already, and I am not alone on Khyber in that regard.

I am excited for Reaper, though with work and homesearching right now not sure when I can come back to game.
  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #69 - Jan 10th, 2017 at 5:19pm
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Frank wrote on Jan 10th, 2017 at 2:25am:
I thought you'd sworn off trolling and had promised to be a good boy going forward?

I guess once a troll always a troll.  It's almost funny how you FAIL at trying not to be a troll.

I'm not trolling you anymore.  Trolling is an intentional effort to elicit a reaction, usually a negative one, from the target.  At this point, I could not care less whether or not you respond.  Now I'm just laughing at your stupid fails.

However, if all it takes to "troll" you is the word FAIL, that's kind of sad and pathetic.  If so, you really should take a few moments to internally reflect upon what's really important in life.
« Last Edit: Jan 10th, 2017 at 5:34pm by Digimonk »  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #70 - Jan 10th, 2017 at 10:03pm
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harharharhar wrote on Jan 10th, 2017 at 2:10pm:
I can solo everything on LE already, and I am not alone on Khyber in that regard.

I am excited for Reaper, though with work and homesearching right now not sure when I can come back to game.


Who are you on Khyber? Can PM
  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #71 - Jan 10th, 2017 at 11:22pm
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WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Jan 3rd, 2017 at 3:39pm:
+1

I have never tried everquest. Still worth it?


Not current Everquest, it's a shadow of it's former self and all that made it stand out in it's time has been lost in order to cash in on the WoW phenomenon.

I can't speak for more recent changes to everquest, but kiting was handled in two different ways in classic EQ. One was to reduce DoT damage(one of the primary ways to kill monsters while kiting) anytime the mob was actively attempting to engage you. If it was standing still(rooted or aggro'd on tank) or running away(low health/feared) then you would do full damage.

The more heavy handed way they handled it specifically for higher level, rare/named/boss type mobs was simply allowing them to summon you at will. If you were at the top of the hate list from the mob and attempted to run out of melee range then you would see a /shout in the zone of the monsters saying "soandso, you will not escape me.." as you were teleported to them instantly. And they could do it at will.

Also remember that part of the issue with DDO kiting is that once you kill a mob in most instances, they stay dead. Which gives you room to kite freely backwards from areas you've already cleared. EQ wasn't instanced back in the day and all dungeons and open world areas had respawns. Trying to kite anything in a dungeon was a death sentence for you and anyone else caught in the mayhem.

EQ dungeons were absolute death traps that one feared. Kiting was simply out of the question regardless. That was something druids and other DoT casters did in outdoor zones with room to run.
  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #72 - Jan 10th, 2017 at 11:58pm
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Frank wrote on Jan 6th, 2017 at 4:11am:
...
When my caster starts his rotation by using a 95% hate reduction ability (Imperceptible Casting) and still pulls aggro because mobs that couldn't even see him when he was casting were triggered to him as a threat, or better yet when the melee opens a door and starts cleaving/swinging/intimidating and yet the mobs stream past him and attack my caster who hasn't thrown a single spell yet, there are issues with the aggo mechanics in the game.  This is not to be dismissed as players not understanding how to manage their aggro.  That is the refuge of an idiot who doesn't understand how the game is played.

U33.2 changed the aggro mechanics for the worse.

Digimonk wrote on Jan 6th, 2017 at 12:34pm:
Based on past experience, I expect that about two weeks from now you'll find out that this past week SSG acknowledged there are issues with the current aggro coding due to the recent changes and are working to fix them. 

Frank wrote on Jan 7th, 2017 at 6:42am:
...
So please, if I'm "two weeks behind the curve" then feel free to enlighten me.  ...blah blah blah...

So again, source?  Put up or shut up, Mookie.


Grand wrote on Jan 10th, 2017 at 8:01pm:
Default Lamannia Release Notes (Last Updated 1-10-17)
Lamannia Update 34 Release Notes
...
Monster assist range has been reduced....

You'll catch up one day.
« Last Edit: Jan 14th, 2017 at 3:15pm by Digimonk »  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #73 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 12:01am
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vageta31 wrote on Jan 10th, 2017 at 11:22pm:
Also remember that part of the issue with DDO kiting is that once you kill a mob in most instances, they stay dead. Which gives you room to kite freely backwards from areas you've already cleared. EQ wasn't instanced back in the day and all dungeons and open world areas had respawns. Trying to kite anything in a dungeon was a death sentence for you and anyone else caught in the mayhem.

EQ dungeons were absolute death traps that one feared. Kiting was simply out of the question regardless. That was something druids and other DoT casters did in outdoor zones with room to run.

TRAIN TO EXECUTIONER!   LOL


Crap, you're right.  I was mistaken about the anti-kiting mechanic in Everquest.  It's been a while.  The mob summoned you, not teleported to you like I said.  Guess I've spent too much time fighting devils in DDO.  =)

Here's a good writeup of the early days in EQ.
http://afkgamer.com/archives/category/everquest-i-journal/

In it's early days, that game really did get the grouping thing right.  Soloing was possible on a few classes, but tough even for those.  Even for good groups, at-level content was a challenge.  Oddly enough, very few non-raid mobs could one-shot players.  Even casters could usually take a few hits before dropping.  The mobs were a challenge because they had enough HPs to not die in 2s and the AI and pathing were much better than DDO.  The good, named loot was pretty rare and generally required a group effort to camp/farm it even for just one or two people.

Lots of nostalgia and fond memories from that game.
« Last Edit: Jan 11th, 2017 at 12:11am by Digimonk »  
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Re: Magic Turtle /// Reaper Tank from Skull 10 Lamma
Reply #74 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 12:25pm
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Digimonk wrote on Jan 9th, 2017 at 1:13am:
It's going to be entertaining to see the return to the days of the "Full group - Just need a cleric/tank/cc" sitting in the LFM window for hours.


Some people still have a hard on for the "glory days" of their old triad MMO and this is the closest they are going to get in today's DDO.

They can have fun their way, but it's not going to be the only way to do it.
  

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