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Tspoon
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pure wis dex monk build questions
Jan 9th, 2017 at 3:20pm
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I realize even with the updates to monk that a pure max wis melee monk may be seriously ill fated, but I want to give it a try and see how disappointed I can be... So, there seems to be 2 ways to go with this in terms of feats either whirlwind attack or cleaves for aoe damage.  From my perspective, the downside to WWA is heavy feat usage and 13 int req, the cleave option needs 13 str to get the feats in, I am leaning to the cleave route here is my current build, very in progress:

Tspatula
Monk 20
Lawful Neutral Human


Stats
               36pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     --------
Strength        13       +6       4: WIS
Dexterity       16       +6       8: WIS
Constitution    16       +6      12: WIS
Intelligence     9       +6      16: WIS
Wisdom          16       +6      20: WIS
Charisma         8       +6      24: WIS
                                 28: WIS


Skills
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Concent   4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Jump      4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Balance         1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  18
Hide                                    1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  2  4  14
Heal      2  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½     11
UMD       2  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½     11
         ------------------------------------------------------------
         16  4  5  5  5  5  5  5  5  5  6  6  6  6  6  6  6  6  7  7



Feats

1        : Two Weapon Fighting
1 Human  : Power Attack
1 Monk   : Stunning Fist
2 Monk   : Dodge
3        : Cleave
3 Monk   : Path of Harmonious Balance
6        : Past Life: Monk
6 Monk   : Mobility
9        : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
12        : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
15        : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18        : Great Cleave
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic   : Improved Martial Arts
26 Destiny: Tactician
27 Epic   : Vorpal Strikes
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic   : Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning
30 Legend : Scion of: Astral Plane


Thoughts?
« Last Edit: Jan 9th, 2017 at 3:21pm by Tspoon »  
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Munkenmo
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Re: pure wis dex monk build questions
Reply #1 - Jan 10th, 2017 at 1:46am
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I don't see the point in Mobility if you're not picking up Spring Attack & Whirlwind attack.

Imo deflect arrows or a ranged feat would be more useful.
  

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Re: pure wis dex monk build questions
Reply #2 - Jan 10th, 2017 at 3:29pm
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The PA/Cleaves route has some synergy with being able to use Momentum swing and Lay Waste from LD.
  
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Re: pure wis dex monk build questions
Reply #3 - Jan 10th, 2017 at 4:17pm
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That's a lot of dex you're starting with, would suggest dropping it to 14 and waiting for the tomes to kick in for the feats, improved 2 weapon fighting at lvl 12 then.

Master mo is right, those feats are bad by themselves. Tho you really, really want whirlwind attack, its amazing especially in combination with dire charge.... 4 hits on every mob around you. Though pure is awfully tight on feats to fit in whirlwind attack.... I still suggest dropping cleave and great cleave for it tho, they both suck on unarmed anyways cuz cleave doesn't proc offhand attacks so it's just one hit in an arc, great cleave does but its hardly more dps than just regular punches.... technically whirlwind attack is the same as doing great cleave four times, and it has the same cooldown. Note that WA needs combat expertise which requires int, which isn't terribad since Know the angles is good on the build.

You're probably better off taking the scion of arborea when it comes to DPS, 8% doublestrike is only 8% doublestrike and only applies to main hand... 20 MP, +2 dmg is more, at cap at least, and can get your tactics DC high enough without the 4 from ethereal.
  
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Re: pure wis dex monk build questions
Reply #4 - Jan 10th, 2017 at 4:42pm
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Going to be using Dex for hit and damage, and this is a good allocation of build points in terms of value being stuck with 13 Str, putting them elsewhere is less efficient imo. 

yeah, I put mobility basically as a placeholder, looking now I realize I  forgot precision, so it will go there.

momentum and LW are strength based, so they'll be ok, but I think limited.  WWA is soooo feat intensive and 13 int... 

Scion is sort of a placeholder too, prob will go arborea

It really sucks that SSG isn't going to implement Wis to damage apparently..
  
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Re: pure wis dex monk build questions
Reply #5 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 12:08am
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Asheras wrote on Jan 10th, 2017 at 3:29pm:
The PA/Cleaves route has some synergy with being able to use Momentum swing and Lay Waste from LD.


Whirlwind attack is a cleave attack just the same and also resets momentum swing.

Tspoon wrote on Jan 10th, 2017 at 4:42pm:
Going to be using Dex for hit and damage


Why tho? There's are a lot more ways to buff/increase strength than there are for dex. Going dex instead of str might give a slightly higher reflex save but you won't have any trouble making reflex saves, can get reflex high enough for anything, besides, you have frickin' improved evasion?

Tspoon wrote on Jan 10th, 2017 at 4:42pm:
WWA is soooo feat intensive and 13 int... 


Have you heard about know the angles from harper tree? 11 int is enough fyi.

You fail to see my point though. Let me break it down for you: WA > cleave + great cleave....

Trust me, cleave is ass on an unarmed and using it will only lower your damage output. I have cleave just to be able to take momentum swing (which is broken AF btw and far worse than even cleave) and dont even have cleave on my hotbars anymore since you can throw like 4+ punches in the time it takes to make a cleave, especially with haste boost active cleave will be super lame. Again, cleave only hits once... IDK how many mobs you plan to hit with nerfed unarmed cleave range, but hardly more than 4.

Tspoon wrote on Jan 10th, 2017 at 4:42pm:
yeah, I put mobility basically as a placeholder, looking now I realize I  forgot precision, so it will go there.


You do know that precision and power attack can't be active at the same time, right?

BTW idk if you play EE or not but on a pure melee monk with only cocoon, ur gonna have a bad time mkay... unless u like kiting with a melee toon, 150 hp is gone in 1 hit in most content so useless with an EE mob trying to rape your soon to be loose butthole.

I always used to roll my monks bf, with a few fighter levels which solve the feat issue. Since the changes to shintao tree its a shame to miss out on that capstone but idc I just keep using my old build, soulstones don't do a lot of dps. Reconstruct easily hits for over 1k every 6 sec. shaken on hit, +3 tactics, dual action boost, stalwart stance...

Well, up to you just saying what I found in my unarmed lives,

Game on!
  
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Re: pure wis dex monk build questions
Reply #6 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 3:51am
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I will say purely based on reaper 10 skull.
Mobs have dodge bypass, mobs have conceal bypass, mobs have fortification bypass, you need heavy prr if you want to take 1 hit.

I wouldnt do monks unless if you plan to play in gmaster, blitz in current reaper iteration is utterly useless.
IF this is a gmaster build, it would fare nicely in reaper, all level ups into wisdom  was smart choice, just to have no fail cc /til we can estimate if we can go dex based with kta as supplement for high enough dcs in any content.ž
/you need dex because even on a failed save with imp evasion thro 200 prr some traps hit me for 700 per tick and if trap is multi hit, say bye bye as str based.

I repeat, blitz melle builds focusing on multi hits are dead.
Guards and bypasses will make you die alot on a conventional unarmed blitzer monk.
I would drop cleaves and dodge line, unless if you plan to build for ac via cexpertise /that might be viable i saw no champs with "ac bypass" and focus on single target.
Unless momentum is bugged the dc wont be reliable for cc /and i repeat you wont run in blitz unless you get the perfect group that allows you to blitz with flawless cc.
But wise + kta + shintao strikes + gmaster strikes might be a way to play a monk if you really want to torture yourself with melle (and there are better options if melle then that).

Purely 10skull objective view.
« Last Edit: Jan 11th, 2017 at 4:01am by Lelouch »  
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Re: pure wis dex monk build questions
Reply #7 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 2:26pm
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Well, it seems like Strength based monk builds are about 5 updates ago.  This build will certainly be viable all the way to lvl 30 and I have 3 more epic lives to throw on it so, I can pretty easily lesser to a WWA build or other idea.  However, I don't think that one should be making builds for Reaper mode with the same mindset one uses for LE content.  Personally, I am hoping that Reaper is more group oriented and pushes the gameplay back to the "good" old days where balanced parties were needed to efficiently run through content on elite...  if melee is not viable in Reaper, I am not going to be running a pure monk no matter what the build does...
« Last Edit: Jan 11th, 2017 at 2:26pm by Tspoon »  
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Re: pure wis dex monk build questions
Reply #8 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 3:08pm
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Tspoon wrote on Jan 11th, 2017 at 2:26pm:
Well, it seems like Strength based monk builds are about 5 updates ago.  This build will certainly be viable all the way to lvl 30 and I have 3 more epic lives to throw on it so, I can pretty easily lesser to a WWA build or other idea.  However, I don't think that one should be making builds for Reaper mode with the same mindset one uses for LE content.  Personally, I am hoping that Reaper is more group oriented and pushes the gameplay back to the "good" old days where balanced parties were needed to efficiently run through content on elite...  if melee is not viable in Reaper, I am not going to be running a pure monk no matter what the build does...

Atm reaper isn't what was promised.
It is still the "pick cheesy build" and complete on it.
Only difference is less damage dealt, less damage made, less healing done.
Maybe for casuals who will run 3-4 skulls the trinity might work out, but for high tier 10 skulls i doubt anyone would want to run a dedicated tank.
IT might work out, but i just dont see it since kiting is faster (same issue we faced in old premotu epics)
  
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Re: pure wis dex monk build questions
Reply #9 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 3:55pm
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Lelouch wrote on Jan 11th, 2017 at 3:08pm:
(same issue we faced in old premotu epics)


Yes I remember, and not fondly...
  
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Re: pure wis dex monk build questions
Reply #10 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 4:48pm
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Lelouch wrote on Jan 11th, 2017 at 3:08pm:
IT might work out, but i just dont see it since kiting is faster (same issue we faced in old premotu epics)


I used to enjoy speed runs with groups comprising soley of PM's or W/f Sorcs.

I preferred the melee playstyle, but damn our all arcane runs were quick.
  

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Re: pure wis dex monk build questions
Reply #11 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 11:39pm
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Munkenmo wrote on Jan 11th, 2017 at 4:48pm:
I used to enjoy speed runs with groups comprising soley of PM's or W/f Sorcs.

I preferred the melee playstyle, but damn our all arcane runs were quick.


I know xD

I was in a stubborn guild that did it with melees.
But 6 out of 12 had esos and eclaw/litany/chrono set so it was faster then all arcane runs.
Other 6 were casters and carried the trash duty flawlesly
Damn that weapon was so op back then on a barb
« Last Edit: Jan 11th, 2017 at 11:41pm by Lelouch »  
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Re: pure wis dex monk build questions
Reply #12 - Jan 12th, 2017 at 8:17am
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My guild had the worst luck with ESOS, I'd gotten 4 before anyone else ever managed to get one.

This is making me all nostalgic, I miss those days Sad
  

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Re: pure wis dex monk build questions
Reply #13 - Jan 12th, 2017 at 12:12pm
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eSoS is still a relevent weapon. Not best in slot anymore, but competitive.
  

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Re: pure wis dex monk build questions
Reply #14 - Jan 13th, 2017 at 12:16pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 12th, 2017 at 12:12pm:
eSoS is still a relevent weapon. Not best in slot anymore, but competitive.

There's someone on G-land running an eSoS fighter multiclass that would likely prove you wrong.  From talking to them, it requires non-stop mashing for cleaves, monk specials, etc. but has an insane Dire Charge DC and is a crit-spamming wrecking machine that wipes out entire groups of mobs in LE slavers at will.  He has apparently run the math on eSoS vs Riftmaker, Silvanus mauls, etc. ad nauseum and it still comes out ahead for him.

It's the only melee fighter-based build I've seen that consistently beats good shuris, tempest rangers, warlocks, shiradis and palemasters.
« Last Edit: Jan 13th, 2017 at 12:16pm by Digimonk »  
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