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browniesforbreakfast
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A Terrorble Build
Jan 24th, 2017 at 9:23pm
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This is still a WiP. PK lands on everything possible in game, crits 15-30k. says 81/80 enhancement pts, but, Final Strike only costs one where planner says two.

[EDIT] misclicked swim point when trying to recreate build from live. I think that point went in jump.


TerrorbleBuild
12/6/2 Fighter/Monk/Warlock
Lawful Neutral Morninglord


Level Order

1. Warlock         6. Monk           11. Fighter        16. Fighter
2. Monk            7. Monk           12. Fighter        17. Fighter
3. Monk            8. Fighter        13. Fighter        18. Fighter
4. Monk            9. Fighter        14. Fighter        19. Fighter
5. Monk           10. Fighter        15. Fighter        20. Warlock


Stats
               28pt     32pt     34pt     36pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     ----     ----     ----     --------
Strength         8        8        8        8       +7       4: DEX
Dexterity       16       16       16       16       +7       8: WIS
Constitution    14       14       14       14       +7      12: WIS
Intelligence    13       16       16       16       +7      16: WIS
Wisdom          13       14       15       16       +7      20: WIS
Charisma         8        8        8        8       +7      24: WIS
                                                            28: WIS

Skills
          W  M  M  M  M  M  M  F  F  F  F  F  F  F  F  F  F  F  F  W
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Concent   4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
UMD       4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Balance   2  2  2  1  1  1  1  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  1  1  1  1  1  1½ 20
Heal      2  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½     11
Perform   1½    ½  1  1  ½  ½                                      1   6
Tumble       1                                                         1
Swim      ½                                                            ½
         ------------------------------------------------------------
         20  7  7  7  7  6  6  6  6  6  6  6  6  6  7  7  7  7  7  7
         20  7  7  7  7  7  8  6  6  6  6  6  6  6  7  7  7  7  7  7


Feats

1        : Spell Focus: Enchantment
1 Warlock: Pact: Fiend
2 Monk   : Shuriken Expertise
3        : Quick Draw
3 Monk   : Precision
4 Monk   : Path of Harmonious Balance
6        : Completionist
7 Monk   : Ten Thousand Stars
8 Fighter: Point Blank Shot
9        : Past Life: Bard
9 Fighter: Precise Shot
11 Fighter: Rapid Shot
12        : Master of Forms
13 Fighter: Improved Critical: Thrown
15        : Past Life: Wizard
15 Fighter: Improved Precise Shot
17 Fighter: Zen Archery
18        : Grandmaster of Forms
19 Fighter: Manyshot
21 Epic   : Quicken Spell
24 Epic   : Arcane Insight
26 Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Positive
27 Epic   : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Doubleshot
29 Destiny: Fount of Life
30 Epic   : Embolden Spell
30 Legend : Scion of: Feywild


Spells

Warlock
   1. Shield, Hypnotism, Command

Enhancements (81 of 80 AP) - Errors

Elf-Arcane Archer (34 AP)
    • Arcane Archer
         1. Energy of the Wild II, Shock Arrows, Awareness III
         2. Force Arrows I, Inferno Shot III, Elemental Damage
         3. Terror Arrows, Soul Magic, Elemental Damage, Wisdom
         4. Banishing Arrows, Paralyzing Arrows, Smiting Arrows, Elemental Damage, Wisdom
         5. Arrow of Slaying, Final Strike

Kensei (23 AP)
    • Kensei Focus: Martial Arts, Spiritual Bond, Strike with No Thought, Power Surge
         1. Extra Action Boost III, Haste Boost III
         2. Ascetic Training: Agility III
         3. Shattering Shot III, Wisdom
         4. Wisdom

Morninglord (14 AP)
    • Elven Accuracy
         1. Rejuvenation of Dawn II
         2. Enchantment Lore I, Arcanum II
         3. Arcane Archer

Ninja Spy (8 AP)
    • Basic Ninja Training, Advanced Ninja Training
         1. Stealthy II, Acrobatic II
         2. Agility II

Soul Eater (2 AP)
    • Inhuman Understanding
         1. Taint the Blood


Destiny (24 AP)

Fury of the Wild
   1. Primal Scream III, Constitution
   2. Acute Instincts III, Damage Reduction I, Constitution
   3. Constitution
   4. Sense Weakness III, Constitution
   5. Fury Eternal, Constitution
   6. Unbridled Fury

Twists of Fate (31 fate points)
   1. Pierce the Gloom (Tier 4 Shadowdancer)
   2. Whirling Wrists (Tier 3 Shiradi)
   3. Enlightenment (Tier 1 Flowers)
   4. Extra Action Boost (Tier 1 Dreadnought)
   5. Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)

Gear:

Goggles: (placeholder for aug slots until replacement determined, may rearrange as other augs not necessary and put LGS dex skills back on from last life) Visions of Precision, Festive Wis +2, Topaz G Enchant

Armor: Outfit of the Celestial Guardian, Str+8, Drac SG, Mythic2

Bracers: Slavers - Wis17, Resist14, Q Wis4, Concent22

Helm: Legendary Executioner's Helm, Fear Immunity, Mythic1

Neck: Slavers - Con17, Decept14, Q Con4, Hide22

Trinket: Elitany, FL40, Golems Heart

Cloak: Cannith crafted, Dodge15, InsWis7, True Blood

Belt: Slavers, Sheltering45, Devo185, Heal22, Qphys11

Ring1: Legendary Ring of Prowess

Ring2: Dex17, Magnet185, Q Dex4,  Tendon Slice14

Boots: Legendary Knife Toed, Golems Heart

Gloves: Cannith crafted, DS9, Hamp61, InsDex7

Quiver: EE QoP

Offhand: TF SS, 150devo(from before slaver gear finished), Enchant6, Drac Reinvig., Cha8

Mainhand: TFshuri, 1DB, Dragon's Edge, Cripple Flames. Ruby of EN
« Last Edit: Jan 24th, 2017 at 9:33pm by browniesforbreakfast »  
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browniesforbreakfast
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Re: A Terrorble Build
Reply #1 - Jan 24th, 2017 at 10:53pm
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DC breakdown

20 base
32 ability(unbuffed)
6 arcane insight
4 feywild
4 power surge
4 AA enh's
3 twist
2 embolden
1 bard pl
1 wiz pl
1 ench focus
1 yugo
1 sup abil
------------
80
------------
4 taint debuff
2+ neg levels
------------
86+ effective total DC


My apologies on stating 90+ in another thread. I had done the calcs for running in EA before we realized "it was already hitting everything, lets run it in fury for more raw DPS."

  
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Grand
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Re: A Terrorble Build
Reply #2 - Jan 24th, 2017 at 11:36pm
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Interesting. There has been a fair bit of debate about pro/cons of calculating debuffs into DC's to make them look impressive, I'd suggest taking a look at them.
  
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harharharhar
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Re: A Terrorble Build
Reply #3 - Jan 24th, 2017 at 11:44pm
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See that wasn't so hard was it?

I tested embolden with a guildie extensively and could not get Embolden to work.

Have you confirmed for certain it is adding to your DC?
  
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Re: A Terrorble Build
Reply #4 - Jan 24th, 2017 at 11:56pm
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I also see you have Draconic Presence (listed as +3 twist, I think).

This also did nothing in my testing. Did you test this one?

Might be time for someone else to tests these for verification.
  
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Grand
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Re: A Terrorble Build
Reply #5 - Jan 25th, 2017 at 12:16am
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browniesforbreakfast wrote on Jan 24th, 2017 at 10:53pm:
DC breakdown

20 base
32 ability(unbuffed)
6 arcane insight
4 feywild
4 power surge
4 AA enh's
3 twist
2 embolden
1 bard pl
1 wiz pl
1 ench focus
1 yugo
1 sup abil
------------
80
------------
4 taint debuff
2+ neg levels
------------
86+ effective total DC


My apologies on stating 90+ in another thread. I had done the calcs for running in EA before we realized "it was already hitting everything, lets run it in fury for more raw DPS."



+4 power surge DC?  That's only intermittent 60 secs a crack.  And your +3 from twists isn't accounted for in the twists you list,  leaving you at 79 the majority of the time even it debuffs are counted towards DCs.  79 isn't going to come close to cutting it in LE, even the 83 when you boost won't be that solid because of the debuff issues. 

And what about arcane insight's 3 minute cooldown? that means that for every 2.5 minutes out of 3 you will only have a DC in the low 70's that's not going to PK anything in endgame. 


Good on you for posting tho man.
« Last Edit: Jan 25th, 2017 at 12:28am by Grand »  
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Re: A Terrorble Build
Reply #6 - Jan 25th, 2017 at 12:23am
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harharharhar wrote on Jan 24th, 2017 at 11:56pm:
I also see you have Draconic Presence (listed as +3 twist, I think).

This also did nothing in my testing. Did you test this one?

Might be time for someone else to tests these for verification.


Yup, gotta use a different delivery device.
  
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Re: A Terrorble Build
Reply #7 - Jan 25th, 2017 at 12:40am
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Did you happen to test after they fixed multipliers? The changes to code to fix multi's may have changed how ammo is processed when throwing to be more like an xbow. My tests were months ago. It's a super long shot, but who knows.
  
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browniesforbreakfast
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Re: A Terrorble Build
Reply #8 - Jan 25th, 2017 at 12:50am
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harharharhar wrote on Jan 24th, 2017 at 11:44pm:
See that wasn't so hard was it?



actually, yes it was. over an hour wasted that i could have been watching Bones reruns.

havent done any testing but will test against alt account toon with 80ish saves if i feel like wasting any more time.

this build's terror goes off like crazy in most content, stubbornly but still ~75% of 20s result in PK in the highest saves content we have.


  
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Re: A Terrorble Build
Reply #9 - Jan 25th, 2017 at 1:12am
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Grand wrote on Jan 25th, 2017 at 12:16am:
+4 power surge DC?  That's only intermittent 60 secs a crack.  And your +3 from twists isn't accounted for in the twists you list,  leaving you at 79 the majority of the time even it debuffs are counted towards DCs.  79 isn't going to come close to cutting it in LE, even the 83 when you boost won't be that solid because of the debuff issues. 

And what about arcane insight's 3 minute cooldown? that means that for every 2.5 minutes out of 3 you will only have a DC in the low 70's that's not going to PK anything in endgame. 


Good on you for posting tho man.



power surge with 10 of them is plenty to keep it 100% between shrines, if you have friends to play with. We duo a little for added challenge but with full party, if youre not going for speed records, you can stop at a shrine before you run out.

yeah i messed up the twists listed, reorder and put t2 as +3 enchant twist. dont really need EAB with drac reinvig. wish it recharged surge.

if youre not counting debuffs, without AI, its 74. since i know im going to hit that mob with 4shuri with one or two shots, im going to count it. 78. so it doesnt instakill something. hit a 10k stars and it takes 4negs, therefore loses 8saves. back up to 86, EFFECTIVELY.

I get what yall mean in your arguments. I'm not basing my thoughts on spreadsheets or tables or hundreds of lines of calculations with atk speed, damage, debuffs and DCs all rolled together for a true dps layout. I'm saying this works, and it works very well, in my experience.
  
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Re: A Terrorble Build
Reply #10 - Jan 25th, 2017 at 1:40am
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Yes, I know what you're doing, because I already did it last year. Almost exactly, with worse gear. Including playing in Fury of the Wild as the ED.

But the fact is, the DC's are not 90's with DPS. They are high 70's and low 80's. You were wrong. Maybe you'll have a little more respect for your elders now.

What I found when I played an equivalent version of this build was that even though I intended to PK everything and save Adrenalines for bosses, I it was faster to just play this thing as a  fury shuri build, and the PK's were nice when they procced. That's why I TR'd.

The investment for PK wasn't getting me anywhere that more DPS couldn't get me further.

For reaper it might be a different story, but saves will be higher, you will have to go EA, and they might fix AA imbues.
« Last Edit: Jan 25th, 2017 at 1:45am by harharharhar »  
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Re: A Terrorble Build
Reply #11 - Jan 25th, 2017 at 2:04am
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harharharhar wrote on Jan 25th, 2017 at 1:40am:
You were wrong. Maybe you'll have a little more respect for your elders now.


I was only wrong about my exact numbers on those DCs. When you play with the groups I do, its not a big deal. This is the middle ground, tho. A build with great Red-name DPS and viable DCs, after debuffs. Don't forget that I'm in a party. One with a FVS and a bard that buff me and debuff things, too. It's fun playing with people as a team.

I'll go back to watching Bones now. And big blue hands grabbing all the Kobolds, orcs and such that walk in front of me, tomorrow.
  
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Re: A Terrorble Build
Reply #12 - Jan 25th, 2017 at 2:12am
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With the proposed reaper tree for casters this should be viable now, right?
The dcs and wisdom from caster tree seem more interesting then what they offer in other 2 trees.
No need for feats, keep good dcs and still go full burst mode

( i have no idea how morons plan to do this, allow us to cap all 3 trees or only 1)
« Last Edit: Jan 25th, 2017 at 2:14am by Lelouch »  
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Re: A Terrorble Build
Reply #13 - Jan 25th, 2017 at 2:34am
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Lelouch wrote on Jan 25th, 2017 at 2:12am:
With the proposed reaper tree for casters this should be viable now, right?
The dcs and wisdom from caster tree seem more interesting then what they offer in other 2 trees.
No need for feats, keep good dcs and still go full burst mode

( i have no idea how morons plan to do this, allow us to cap all 3 trees or only 1)



This one isn't viable Lelo, there's some pretty big issues with the Vorp rate and the DCs that would need to be addressed to get higher numbers, before you add in the reaper buffs. Chicken v.s. egg problem you know.

But that said, a properly built Terror build is certainly viable, you can find some great info and discussions about play tested results on other threads in the build section. But keep in mind that the needed ranged suite will eat up a ton of feats, and they are invariably very narrowly focused builds.
« Last Edit: Jan 25th, 2017 at 2:35am by »  
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Re: A Terrorble Build
Reply #14 - Jan 25th, 2017 at 2:40am
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Quote:
This one isn't viable Lelo, there's some pretty big issues with the Vorp rate and the DCs that would need to be addressed to get higher numbers, before you add in the reaper buffs. Chicken v.s. egg problem you know.

But that said, a properly built Terror build is certainly viable, you can find some great info and discussions about play tested results on other threads in the build section. But keep in mind that the needed ranged suite will eat up a ton of feats, and they are invariably very narrowly focused builds.


Hmm k, guess il stick with paralyze imbue then.
Should work decently enough
  
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Re: A Terrorble Build
Reply #15 - Jan 25th, 2017 at 2:52am
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Lelouch wrote on Jan 25th, 2017 at 2:40am:
Hmm k, guess il stick with paralyze imbue then.
Should work decently enough


As long as you have a high enough DC, which can be an issue in end game and high skull reaper, just watch out for the blue saves above their heads. You may be interested to know that the Save for the initial imbue effects runs about 7 less than the Vorp saves. It was never put out in any release notes since the ranger pass, but it was identified pretty early on. On the plus side that spread is not scaling up in Reaper, it still runs about 7 even at 10 skulls. That applies to Para, smite, banish, and terror vorp effects. But anything other than GxB will require two saves for the PK effect.
« Last Edit: Jan 25th, 2017 at 2:52am by »  
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Re: A Terrorble Build
Reply #16 - Jan 25th, 2017 at 2:57am
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As long as you have a high enough DC, which can be an issue in end game and high skull reaper, just watch out for the blue saves above their heads. You may be interested to know that the Save for the initial imbue effects runs about 7 less than the Vorp saves. It was never put out in any release notes since the ranger pass, but it was identified pretty early on. On the plus side that spread is not scaling up in Reaper, it still runs about 7 even at 10 skulls. That applies to Para, smite, banish, and terror vorp effects. But anything other than GxB will require two saves for the PK effect.


Oh good info. Tnx
« Last Edit: Jan 25th, 2017 at 3:01am by Lelouch »  
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Re: A Terrorble Build
Reply #17 - Jan 25th, 2017 at 6:09pm
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Yeah I think a Para Imbue in the 70-80's + Pin is going to be a lot of fun on a thrower.
  
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Re: A Terrorble Build
Reply #18 - Jan 25th, 2017 at 8:18pm
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browniesforbreakfast wrote on Jan 25th, 2017 at 1:12am:
if youre not counting debuffs, without AI, its 74. since i know im going to hit that mob with 4shuri with one or two shots, im going to count it.


Taint only debuffs Fort saves.  For PK, mobs need a to fail a Will save first, before being forced to make that Fort save. This means taint isn't having the impact you thought.

browniesforbreakfast wrote on Jan 25th, 2017 at 1:12am:
hit a 10k stars and it takes 4negs, therefore loses 8saves. back up to 86, EFFECTIVELY.


Actually with your build, 10k will only give you a small 30% (15% consider full time) boost because of the limited mk levels. So 'hitting 10K" is hardly going to throw a switch and give you 4 instant neg levels on a target. You would need to vorp 4 times to get the neg levs effect you want to count and it would take 80 spawned shuriken attacks to get those 4 Vorps. With your current build's double shot chances and 10k running you would need to throw for at least 20 seconds to get 4 neg levs on a target that you wish to count. That's a lifetime in current game play.

As bad as that is, it's much more import to remember that you will have wasted 4 Vorp PK chances getting to that marginal DC for twenty seconds. You may also not realize that the neg effects of the neg lev apply to all saves AFTER it has been hit not instantaneously so you can't even count the Endless night -2 effect for a single PK chance.

Taint effecting only Fort...
Time delay debuffing with neg levs....

These are only a couple reasons why debuffs are a false economy when it comes to Terror builds. Terror builds count on Vorps, you cannot afford to waste a single one of them. That being the case if a Terror build is to be effective at all it needs to have the DC effects load on the frontend of any attack so that no Vorp chance are wasted.

Looking at the DC factors and choices you have listed in your build we see the following:

browniesforbreakfast wrote on Jan 24th, 2017 at 10:53pm:
DC breakdown

20 base
32 ability(unbuffed)
6 arcane insight
4 feywild
4 power surge
4 AA enh's
3 twist
2 embolden
1 bard pl
1 wiz pl
1 ench focus
1 yugo
1 sup abil
------------
80
------------
4 taint debuff
2+ neg levels
------------
86+ effective total DC



First thing- With the leveling, feats, AP, gear and monk stance that you have listed in the OP your Build the Wis is actually 71 , giving it a DC effect of only 30, not your listed 32 (unbuffed).

Next, Arcane insight is only 30 seconds with a 3 minute cool down. That mean you will be running down -6 DC 83% of the time.

Another problem is that Embolden doesn't work with Shuriken or bow Terror attacks.

With those considerations you end up with this:

browniesforbreakfast wrote on Jan 24th, 2017 at 10:53pm:
DC breakdown

20 base
3230 ability(unbuffed)
6 arcane insight only 16% of the time
4 feywild
4 power surge
4 AA enh's
3 twist
2 embolden
1 bard pl
1 wiz pl
1 ench focus
1 yugo
1 sup abil
6 TF enchant
------------
80
82 16% of the time
76 83% of the time
------------
4 taint debuff no effect on Will saves
2+ neg level only after previous Vorp,
------------
86+ effective total DC
76 effective total DC 83% of the time
82 effective total DC only 16% of the time



I'm assuming from looking at your build and the choices and oversights you have made, that you are new to Terror builds and haven't run them in game very often and not at LE or Reaper. There's nothing wrong with that, but you should know going forward that a 76 DC is useless, you need to be running with a DC of at least 85 (unbuffed) to be of any use in game. There are many ways you can improve and change the build, I'd suggest you take a look at the builds the Jakeelala, 5 foot step, and Steelstar for a start. They have played and tested builds extensively. Also don't hesitate to send PM's asking for advice and input.

This build is trying to be many things at once and is ends up being useless at them. But If you take some time to rearrange your gear, destiny, class, and feat choices you could get it into playable shape.

Have fun.
  
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Re: A Terrorble Build
Reply #19 - Jan 26th, 2017 at 12:04am
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I'm assuming from looking at your build and the choices and oversights you have made, that you are new to Terror builds and haven't run them in game very often and not at LE or Reaper. 


I've obviously made some mistakes in posting everything, the ability score came directly from the character sheet, so, 32 is accurate. I also forgot to list the TF enchant. Also, I DO run this build in LE shroud and slavers, where it does work.

The arcane insight 16% of the time and embolden not functioning, are mistakes to fix. i thought i'd read on here somewhere that terror was affected by embolden. meh, the build works as is, anyway.

thanks for your detailed responses, everyone.
  
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Re: A Terrorble Build
Reply #20 - Jan 26th, 2017 at 12:28am
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browniesforbreakfast wrote on Jan 26th, 2017 at 12:04am:
embolden not functioning, are mistakes to fix. i thought i'd read on here somewhere that terror was affected by embolden. meh, the build works as is, anyway.


Nah, Jakeelala already told you:

harharharhar wrote on Jan 24th, 2017 at 11:44pm:
I tested embolden with a guildie extensively and could not get Embolden to work.
  
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Re: A Terrorble Build
Reply #21 - Jan 26th, 2017 at 12:30am
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harharharhar wrote on Jan 25th, 2017 at 12:40am:
Did you happen to test after they fixed multipliers? The changes to code to fix multi's may have changed how ammo is processed when throwing to be more like an xbow. My tests were months ago. It's a super long shot, but who knows.



Yeah still working as of this weekend, but only for Great crossbow.
  
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Re: A Terrorble Build
Reply #22 - Jan 26th, 2017 at 12:33am
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Taint only debuffs Fort saves.  For PK, mobs need a to fail a Will save first, before being forced to make that Fort save. This means taint isn't having the impact you thought.


Actually with your build, 10k will only give you a small 30% (15% consider full time) boost because of the limited mk levels. So 'hitting 10K" is hardly going to throw a switch and give you 4 instant neg levels on a target. You would need to vorp 4 times to get the neg levs effect you want to count and it would take 80 spawned shuriken attacks to get those 4 Vorps. With your current build's double shot chances and 10k running you would need to throw for at least 20 seconds to get 4 neg levs on a target that you wish to count. That's a lifetime in current game play.

As bad as that is, it's much more import to remember that you will have wasted 4 Vorp PK chances getting to that marginal DC for twenty seconds. You may also not realize that the neg effects of the neg lev apply to all saves AFTER it has been hit not instantaneously so you can't even count the Endless night -2 effect for a single PK chance.

Taint effecting only Fort...
Time delay debuffing with neg levs....

These are only a couple reasons why debuffs are a false economy when it comes to Terror builds. Terror builds count on Vorps, you cannot afford to waste a single one of them. That being the case if a Terror build is to be effective at all it needs to have the DC effects load on the frontend of any attack so that no Vorp chance are wasted.




So much this.
  
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Re: A Terrorble Build
Reply #23 - Jan 26th, 2017 at 12:37am
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browniesforbreakfast wrote on Jan 26th, 2017 at 12:04am:
I DO run this build in LE shroud and slavers, where it does work.



But only 15% of the time, and that's if you're lucky. A 82 DC is a recipe for fail.
  
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Re: A Terrorble Build
Reply #24 - Jan 26th, 2017 at 1:30am
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Grand wrote on Jan 26th, 2017 at 12:37am:
But only 15% of the time, and that's if you're lucky. A 82 DC is a recipe for fail.


My sorc (not specc'd) has an 80 DC mass hold. It works well in slavers against some mobs and not at all vs others. Any melee target? Good to go. Any archer? No way. Any caster? About 50% of the time.
The DC spread in that quest is massive.
  

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volt_ wrote on Mar 23rd, 2017 at 4:43pm:
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