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5 Foot Step
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Assassin path for beginners template
Mar 23rd, 2017 at 12:03pm
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Alignment: Neutral
Class: 20 Rogue


Stats: (28 pt build)

Strength............8
Dexterity...........18 (+ level ups)
Constitution.......14
Intelligence........14
Wisdom.............8
Charisma...........8

Stats: (32 pt build)

Strength............8
Dexterity...........18 (+ level ups)
Constitution.......16
Intelligence........14
Wisdom.............8
Charisma...........8

Feat Progression:

Level 1     : Two Weapon Fighting
Level 3     : Precision
Level 6     : Dodge
Level 9     : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Level 10   : Improved Evasion
Level 12   : Improved Critical Pierce
Level 13   : Opportunist
Level 15   : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Level 16   : Defensive Roll
Level 18   : Mobility
Level 19   : Slippery Mind
Level 21   : Overwhelming Critical
Level 24   : Improved Sneak Attack
Level 26   : Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
Level 27   : Spring Attack
Level 28   : Elusive Target
Level 29   : Dire Charge
Level 30   : Weapon Focus Piercing
Level 30   : Scion of Ethereal Plane


if human add Weapon Focus Piercing

Skills

Search
Disable Device
UMD
Hide
Move Silently
Bluff
Diplomacy
Open Lock
Spot
Tumble

if human/drow add balance
« Last Edit: Jun 9th, 2017 at 1:28pm by 5 Foot Step »  

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ShadowTalon666
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Re: Assassin path for beginners template
Reply #1 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 12:10am
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This is great. It is very hard to find a good beginners build for pure rogues these days.

What would you suggest for an Elf, TWF assassin? Any thoughts on the enhancement tree?

What do you think your starting skills should be? 4 for all the ones you listed and +1 every level? or should you scale some down so you can add a point or two on perhaps Balance, Haggle, Jump, Listen, or swim in the beginning and then focus on your list after?

Also what are your thoughts about weapon finesse?
« Last Edit: Jun 7th, 2017 at 12:15am by ShadowTalon666 »  
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Re: Assassin path for beginners template
Reply #2 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 4:57pm
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ShadowTalon666 wrote on Jun 7th, 2017 at 12:10am:
Balance, Haggle, Jump, Listen, or swim in the beginning and then focus on your list after?

All of those are trash, aside jumping. Jump caps at 40 and a jump item+ str item+scroll/pot gets you there with minimal investment. Grab the scrolls asap.

search and disable are top priority. lockpicking is ass because this game doesnt have anything I would stop to unlock.
ShadowTalon666 wrote on Jun 7th, 2017 at 12:10am:
Any thoughts on the enhancement tree?


Int based(assuming you have harper tree?). Take insightful reflexes feat. Get dragonmarks of displacement.

ap splits ; 12 elf, 41 assassin, 8 mech, 16 harper, 3 acrobat for fast movement. If you have displace clickies then you save a feat and 12 ap which would go into harper for more int and melee power.
  

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Re: Assassin path for beginners template
Reply #3 - Jun 9th, 2017 at 1:35pm
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ShadowTalon666 wrote on Jun 7th, 2017 at 12:10am:
What would you suggest for an Elf, TWF assassin? Any thoughts on the enhancement tree?


This is what I would shoot for.

http://www.ddovault.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1458078943/28#28

Ass 41/TA 31/ racial 8. Elf subs in easily, though that makes the racial ap less appealing. Those can go in mech or harper instead.

ShadowTalon666 wrote on Jun 7th, 2017 at 12:10am:
Also what are your thoughts about weapon finesse?


I do recommend dex-based, but don't take weapon finesse. You get it for free with the weapons you need to use in the assassin tree. That makes your daggers dex to hit, dex to damage, and 15-20x4.

A lot of people go int based for synergy with trapping and Know the Angles, but I think getting 100% Improved Defensive Roll is more than worth maxing dex instead.
  

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Re: Assassin path for beginners template
Reply #4 - Jun 9th, 2017 at 3:33pm
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Thank you very much Smiley I've been looking all over for this kind of advice. I can finally start playing DDO again with confidence that my toon won't be gimped and I'm sure a lot of new players will also find this very useful and user friendly. once again thank you both Smiley
« Last Edit: Jun 9th, 2017 at 3:34pm by ShadowTalon666 »  
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Re: Assassin path for beginners template
Reply #5 - Jun 9th, 2017 at 4:13pm
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ShadowTalon666 wrote on Jun 9th, 2017 at 3:33pm:
Thank you very much Smiley I've been looking all over for this kind of advice. I can finally start playing DDO again with confidence that my toon won't be gimped and I'm sure a lot of new players will also find this very useful and user friendly. once again thank you both Smiley

Keep in mind that glass cannon melee builds like assassins, barbs, etc. do really well up through elite but tend to start having a rough time of it in Reaper.   The higher the skull, the worse it gets for them.

If you don't plan on doing much past R1, you'll probably be fine.  If you do, you may want to reconsider an assassin build if you don't have lots of PLs and ePLs to add to the survivability of the toon.

If you want to run in reaper past 1-skull, you really should consider a multi-class or hybrid build that has more defense.  Tempest Rangers, Paladin/Ranger, Fighter splashes, etc.   The melee I see doing well in high Reapers have 200+ PRR, 200+ AC, 2.5k+ HPs etc. at end game.   Hard to hit that sort of defense on a pure rogue.
« Last Edit: Jun 9th, 2017 at 4:14pm by Digimonk »  
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Re: Assassin path for beginners template
Reply #6 - Jun 21st, 2017 at 12:26am
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5 Foot Step wrote on Jun 9th, 2017 at 1:35pm:
This is what I would shoot for.

http://www.ddovault.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1458078943/28#28

Ass 41/TA 31/ racial 8. Elf subs in easily, though that makes the racial ap less appealing. Those can go in mech or harper instead.


So this is what I was able to put together from that. Do you think I should switch anything out or around? Any advice would be appreciated. I'm on my first life and I don't have Harper B.T.W.

Code
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Rogue 20
True Neutral Elf


Stats
               32pt     Level Up
               ----     --------
Strength         8       4: DEX
Dexterity       18       8: DEX
Constitution    16      12: DEX
Intelligence    14      16: DEX
Wisdom           8      20: DEX
Charisma         8


Skills
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Disable   4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Open Lo   4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Search    4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Spot      4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Bluff     4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Diplo     4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Hide      4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Move Si   4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Tumble    4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
UMD       4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
         ------------------------------------------------------------
         40 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10


Feats

 1        : Two Weapon Fighting
 3        : Precision
 6        : Dodge
 9        : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
10 Rogue  : Improved Evasion
12        : Improved Critical: Piercing
13 Rogue  : Opportunist
15        : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
16 Rogue  : Defensive Roll
18        : Mobility
19 Rogue  : Slippery Mind


Enhancements (80 AP)

Assassin (41 AP)
    • Knife in the Darkness, Dagger in the Back, Assassin's Trick, Nimbleness, Lethality, Deadly Shadow
         1. Shiv III, Sneak Attack Training, Stealthy III
         2. Venomed Blades III, Sneak Attack Training
         3. Critical Mastery III, Sneak Attack Training, Dexterity
         4. Killer III, Sneak Attack Training, Dexterity
         5. Measure the Foe III, Knife Specialization, Light Armor Mastery III

Thief-Acrobat (31 AP)
    • Staff Control, Stick Fighting, Tumbler, Kip Up, Cartwheel Charge
         1. Sly Flourish III, Fast Movement
         2. Trip Focus I, Subtlety III, Haste Boost III
         3. Shadow Dodge III, Dexterity
         4. Improved Defensive Roll III, No Mercy III

Elf (8 AP)
    • Elven Accuracy
         1. Keen Senses III, Arcane Fluidity I
         2. Nothing Is Hidden III

Leveling Guide
   1. Ass0 Knife in the Darkness; Ass1 Sneak Attack Training; Elf0 Elven Accuracy
   2. Ass1 Shiv I, II, III; Ass1 Stealthy I
   3. Ass1 Stealthy II; Ass2 Sneak Attack Training; TA0 Staff Control
   4. TA1 Fast Movement; Ass1 Stealthy III; Ass0 Dagger in the Back
   5. TA1 Sly Flourish I; Elf1 Keen Senses I, II, III
   6. Elf1 Arcane Fluidity I; Elf2 Nothing Is Hidden I; Ass3 Sneak Attack Training
   7. Elf2 Nothing Is Hidden II, III; TA1 Sly Flourish II, III
   8. Ass2 Venomed Blades I, II; TA2 Haste Boost I, II
   9. Ass0 Assassin's Trick; Ass2 Venomed Blades III; TA2 Haste Boost III; TA0 Stick Fighting
  10. TA0 Tumbler; Ass3 Dexterity; TA2 Trip Focus I
  11. Ass3 Critical Mastery I; TA2 Subtlety I; Ass4 Dexterity
  12. Ass3 Critical Mastery II; TA2 Subtlety II; Ass3 Critical Mastery III; TA2 Subtlety III
  13. Ass0 Nimbleness; Ass4 Killer I; TA3 Shadow Dodge I
  14. Ass4 Killer II, III; TA3 Shadow Dodge II
  15. Ass4 Sneak Attack Training; TA3 Shadow Dodge III
  16. Ass5 Knife Specialization; TA3 Dexterity
  17. TA0 Kip Up; Ass5 Measure the Foe I; TA4 Improved Defensive Roll I, II
  18. Ass0 Lethality; Ass5 Measure the Foe II; TA4 Improved Defensive Roll III; Ass5 Measure the Foe III
  19. Ass5 Light Armor Mastery I; TA4 No Mercy I; Ass5 Light Armor Mastery II, III
  20. TA4 No Mercy II; Ass0 Deadly Shadow; TA4 No Mercy III; TA0 Cartwheel Charge


Destiny (24 AP)

Shadowdancer
   1. Stealthy III, Dexterity
   2. Lithe III, Dexterity
   3. Shrouding Strike I, Grim Precision III, Dexterity
   4. Improved Invisibility I, Dexterity
   5. Untouchable, Dexterity
   6. Shadow Form

Twists of Fate (30 fate points)
   1. Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Fury)
   2. Balanced Attacks (Tier 3 Primal)
   3. Serenity (Tier 2 Flowers)
   4. Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)
 


« Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2017 at 7:56pm by ShadowTalon666 »  
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Re: Assassin path for beginners template
Reply #7 - Jun 21st, 2017 at 7:51pm
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Digimonk wrote on Jun 9th, 2017 at 4:13pm:
Keep in mind that glass cannon melee builds like assassins, barbs, etc. do really well up through elite but tend to start having a rough time of it in Reaper.   The higher the skull, the worse it gets for them.

If you don't plan on doing much past R1, you'll probably be fine.  If you do, you may want to reconsider an assassin build if you don't have lots of PLs and ePLs to add to the survivability of the toon.

If you want to run in reaper past 1-skull, you really should consider a multi-class or hybrid build that has more defense.  Tempest Rangers, Paladin/Ranger, Fighter splashes, etc.   The melee I see doing well in high Reapers have 200+ PRR, 200+ AC, 2.5k+ HPs etc. at end game.   Hard to hit that sort of defense on a pure rogue.


That's a shame. I really like playing rogues. If the game isn't made for those classes I suppose I will be stuck without the ability to do reapers.  Cry
  
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Re: Assassin path for beginners template
Reply #8 - Jun 21st, 2017 at 9:52pm
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ShadowTalon666 wrote on Jun 21st, 2017 at 7:51pm:
That's a shame. I really like playing rogues. If the game isn't made for those classes I suppose I will be stuck without the ability to do reapers.  Cry

Don't get me wrong.  If you're dead set on an assassin, it can work in Reaper.   You just have to play it very cautiously and carefully. 

If you're light on past lives and whatnot though, there will be times it's painful and probably frustrating.  Expect to get one-shotted on a semi-regular basis.  As long as you accept that and are okay with it, an assassin is otherwise fine.   I don't think it's too hard to get a workable assassinate DC.
  
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Re: Assassin path for beginners template
Reply #9 - Jun 21st, 2017 at 11:07pm
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Digimonk wrote on Jun 21st, 2017 at 9:52pm:
Don't get me wrong.  If you're dead set on an assassin, it can work in Reaper.   You just have to play it very cautiously and carefully.


Sounds tough but it should still be fun getting to the end  Smiley
  
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Re: Assassin path for beginners template
Reply #10 - Jun 25th, 2017 at 10:30pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Jun 9th, 2017 at 1:35pm:
I do recommend dex-based, but don't take weapon finesse. You get it for free with the weapons you need to use in the assassin tree. That makes your daggers dex to hit, dex to damage, and 15-20x4.


You're suggesting using daggers for a rogue assassin instead of short swords or rapier? Could you elaborate on this decision? What makes daggers a better choice for the dual wielding assassin?
« Last Edit: Jun 25th, 2017 at 10:34pm by ShadowTalon666 »  
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Re: Assassin path for beginners template
Reply #11 - Jun 26th, 2017 at 11:38am
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The damage ends up slightly better with some solid named daggers especially and daggers overall in crafted varieties. But pre level 12 I would advise weapon finesse. It will let you use light maces versus skellies with dex to damage and as a naw player you may find access to better rapiers or short swords than you do daggers.
  
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Re: Assassin path for beginners template
Reply #12 - Jun 26th, 2017 at 9:17pm
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Endlessorrow wrote on Jun 26th, 2017 at 11:38am:
The damage ends up slightly better with some solid named daggers especially and daggers overall in crafted varieties. But pre level 12 I would advise weapon finesse. It will let you use light maces versus skellies with dex to damage and as a naw player you may find access to better rapiers or short swords than you do daggers.


Hmm, do you think I should switch Precision out for weapon finesse in the above build then? I started playing it and at lvl 4 I'm finding it odd how little damage I'm doing.
  
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Re: Assassin path for beginners template
Reply #13 - Jun 28th, 2017 at 12:08am
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ShadowTalon666 wrote on Jun 26th, 2017 at 9:17pm:
Hmm, do you think I should switch Precision out for weapon finesse in the above build then? I started playing it and at lvl 4 I'm finding it odd how little damage I'm doing.

I'd swap it out, or just tough it out until lvl 6 and take Weapon Finesse then.

On a first life toon, you'll out level most content before it becomes an issue.

You will get more mileage from different weapon types at the low levels with weapon finesse. The 2nd core (Rogue level 3) from the assassin tree gives you:
     
Dagger in the Back: You can now use your Dexterity for damage with Daggers and Kukris. If you possess the Weapon Finesse feat, this also applies to melee weapons with which you can use your Dexterity modifier to hit. This enhancement does not work with handwraps or unarmed attacks.

Undead in particular are a nightmare for lowby rogues without good gear to fall back on.

Daggers will eventually be your best DPS option, but that wont happen until Lv 12 when you cam take Tier 5 assassin:

Knife Specialization: You gain a +1 Competence bonus to Critical Damage Multiplier with daggers and kukris. Daggers also gain a +1 Competence bonus to Critical Threat Range.

Here's the list of daggers if you're so inclined:

http://m.ddowiki.com/page/Category:Daggers

I would also argue that INT based it the way to go on an Assassin, but there are merits to most build choices.

And take that with a grain of salt, since the last Assassin I rolled was STR based back when that was a thing  Grin
  

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Re: Assassin path for beginners template
Reply #14 - Jun 28th, 2017 at 10:04am
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ShadowTalon666 wrote on Jun 25th, 2017 at 10:30pm:
You're suggesting using daggers for a rogue assassin instead of short swords or rapier? Could you elaborate on this decision? What makes daggers a better choice for the dual wielding assassin?


Daggers are for Knife Specialization. They also get dex to hit and damage for free.

Knife Spec doesn't come online until level 12, so it doesn't much matter what you swing until then. I'd carry a couple holy kukris for zombies and a couple holy blunt objects for skellies. If you're willing to feat swap, you can take Weapon Finesse to get dex to damage on light maces if the skellies are giving you trouble. If they're giving you that much trouble, maybe avoid those quests instead though. I wouldn't worry about it too much because once you hit level 6 you can start spamming Assassin's Trick to remove undead sneak attack immunity and then they won't be giving you trouble. But if you do feat swap, you should swap back at 12, because with Knife Spec it should be all daggers/kukris all the time.
  

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