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Lord Ram
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thf v.s. twf helpless need math help
Mar 26th, 2017 at 3:45am
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I asking for some help determining which weapon set will do the most damage against helpless mobs. Using a HORC with maxed orc weapon training wielding either a greataxe (+8 dam) or double bastard swords or Kopeshes (+4). Would be running brutality +20% on helpless, and no mercy for +30 on helpless. I'm more interested in multi mob damage, if running TWF it would be at least 5 levs of tempest. It would be barbarian If THF.
« Last Edit: Mar 26th, 2017 at 3:46am by »  
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5 Foot Step
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Re: thf v.s. twf helpless need math help
Reply #1 - Mar 27th, 2017 at 11:26am
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Helpless damage is just a multiplier. The one that does more damage in general is usually going to do more helpless damage.

So in your tempest v barb dilemma, tempest will do more.
  
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Lord Ram
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Re: thf v.s. twf helpless need math help
Reply #2 - Mar 27th, 2017 at 12:22pm
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Thank you very much for the quick and clear answer. Could I trouble you for one more, tempest will still have more dps than SWF swashbuckler as well right? The 30% speed isn't enough to change that is it?
  
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Re: thf v.s. twf helpless need math help
Reply #3 - Mar 27th, 2017 at 1:09pm
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Yes, tempest beats swash as well.
  
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Lord Ram
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Re: thf v.s. twf helpless need math help
Reply #4 - Mar 27th, 2017 at 2:25pm
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Good to know, thanks very much.
  
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Re: thf v.s. twf helpless need math help
Reply #5 - Mar 27th, 2017 at 5:28pm
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Tempests are best single target and AoE damage.
  
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Re: thf v.s. twf helpless need math help
Reply #6 - Mar 28th, 2017 at 11:26am
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DoRayEgon wrote on Mar 27th, 2017 at 5:28pm:
Tempests are best single target and AoE damage.


I wouldn't go that far. Not without caveat.
  
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Re: thf v.s. twf helpless need math help
Reply #7 - Mar 28th, 2017 at 11:43am
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monk > tempest, single target
tempest > monk, aoe
wolf > monk / tempest

having a jade striker and sky-knocker in a raid group is nice though
I didn't want to TR for the next 6 months so went monk over wolf.
« Last Edit: Mar 28th, 2017 at 11:46am by Beer »  
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Re: thf v.s. twf helpless need math help
Reply #8 - Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:00pm
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Beer wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 11:43am:
monk > tempest, single target


I would also put pure DPS assassin above pure DPS tempest, since we are not making caveats about survivability or annoying playstyles.

Beer wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 11:43am:
wolf > monk / tempest


Wolf beats all, but the wolf is also technically a tempest though, so...
  
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Re: thf v.s. twf helpless need math help
Reply #9 - Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:05pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:00pm:
Wolf beats all, but the wolf is also technically a tempest though, so...


wolf doesn't use t5 tempest for single target. ninja spy comes out ahead by a bit

the build's "defining characteristic" is the wolf + ranger levels (twf) + swf IMO
« Last Edit: Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:07pm by Beer »  
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Re: thf v.s. twf helpless need math help
Reply #10 - Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:49pm
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Beer wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 11:43am:
I didn't want to TR for the next 6 months so went monk over wolf.


What do you in DDO if you're not TRing?
  
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Re: thf v.s. twf helpless need math help
Reply #11 - Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:54pm
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Vaultaccount wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:49pm:
What do you in DDO if you're not TRing?


TR the other character.  Cheesy
  
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Re: thf v.s. twf helpless need math help
Reply #12 - Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:56pm
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Vaultaccount wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:49pm:
What do you in DDO if you're not TRing?

Roll a forum troll.
  
Instant asshole. Just add alcohol.
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Re: thf v.s. twf helpless need math help
Reply #13 - Mar 28th, 2017 at 1:12pm
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Beer wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:05pm:
wolf doesn't use t5 tempest for single target. ninja spy comes out ahead by a bit

not on wolves. 10k+growing storm+tempest storm beats the piss out of ninja spy tier 5 shadow double. the crit range in spy does not work for wolves.
  
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I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: thf v.s. twf helpless need math help
Reply #14 - Mar 28th, 2017 at 2:17pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 1:12pm:
not on wolves. 10k+growing storm+tempest storm beats the piss out of ninja spy tier 5 shadow double. the crit range in spy does not work for wolves.


eh
not over a 10million HP dragon
multiply his hitpoints by skull+1

30% doublestrike from shadow double
vs
5% double strike, 5 melee power

the other stuff cancels out with the SA from ninja and is still available if you're feeling like herpa-derpin' the ankle bitter

We haven't run tests (unlike you) but its a sustainable thing. T5 ninja spy is better over long fights single target.

there's a few other places its worth switching over
how many shroud portals are there? bout 750k to a million a pop there
« Last Edit: Mar 28th, 2017 at 2:27pm by Beer »  
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Re: thf v.s. twf helpless need math help
Reply #15 - Mar 28th, 2017 at 3:32pm
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Beer wrote on Mar 28th, 2017 at 2:17pm:
30% doublestrike from shadow double
vs
5% double strike, 5 melee power

it's 40 doublestrike gain since the build sits at 60 Dstrike, and melee doesnt wrap around past 100.
10k is 30mp, I dont think 2d6 more sneak beats out a constant 2d6 per every. At least not on mobs that are not immune to electric. For anything with reasonable HP(1mil or less) the tempest set up has the faster burst.

There really isn't a way to test for 10mil hp dragons. Shadow double should win out on hour long boss drills due to 20 second cooldown of shadow dub. In the span of 10k's 90 seconds shadow double activates 4 and a half times.

Sadly, Shintao tier 5 doesnt have much for wolves aside VBV(which works in form), but that is useless when mobs one shot every thing. Kensei tier 5 is very attractive for 10million hp bags too. Just no real way for me to test these.
  
Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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