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Rubbinns
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Re: jakee goes nanners
Reply #25 - Jul 19th, 2017 at 12:30pm
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Jeff_Stryker wrote on Jul 19th, 2017 at 6:51am:
therefore balance is stupid. 

the real balance issue is past lives. heroic lives were fine, small incremental boosts that propped up builds; few dcs here, couple hps there, bit of hamp, and some damage. Nothing here screams unbalanced. The team that designed it actually played the game.

Then we get epic lives. And epic lives are insane value. Perma stacked on a toon at lv1 starting with 40 prr, 200 hp, 40 ac, absorption, spell criticals, doubleshot, etc. The people smashing content with the best builds are not low numbered lives toons, they're packed with epic past lives and are godly compared to new characters. I'm not aware of any other game that has this wide a chasm between characters. If, say, I were to start up WoW today, it would take me a couple months to hit cap and farm the some raids, get carried through some others, and get decently equipped. In ddo it would take a year or two of hardcore playing just to get the past lives that the current dev team balances content for.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: jakee goes nanners
Reply #26 - Jul 19th, 2017 at 12:36pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Jul 19th, 2017 at 12:30pm:
the real balance issue is past lives. heroic lives were fine, small incremental boosts that propped up builds; few dcs here, couple hps there, bit of hamp, and some damage. Nothing here screams unbalanced. The team that designed it actually played the game.

Then we get epic lives. And epic lives are insane value. Perma stacked on a toon at lv1 starting with 40 prr, 200 hp, 40 ac, absorption, spell criticals, doubleshot, etc. The people smashing content with the best builds are not low numbered lives toons, they're packed with epic past lives and are godly compared to new characters. I'm not aware of any other game that has this wide a chasm between characters. If, say, I were to start up WoW today, it would take me a couple months to hit cap and farm the some raids, get carried through some others, and get decently equipped. In ddo it would take a year or two of hardcore playing just to get the past lives that the current dev team balances content for. 


respectfully, you are only right if someone wants to start from scratch and jump straight into reapers. If they are running more normal start from scratch content (normal/hard for their first few lives) this isn't really an issue. No one is meant to start from scratch and run reaper content. I know that's what you are doing having started over and playing with friends who are veterans, but that's just not what any of this is targeted at, demographically.
  
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Re: jakee goes nanners
Reply #27 - Jul 19th, 2017 at 12:37pm
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harharharhar wrote on Jul 19th, 2017 at 12:36pm:
start from scratch and jump straight into reapers

good luck finding lfms for anything else when the entire game is playing reaper. hope you like to solo.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: jakee goes nanners
Reply #28 - Jul 19th, 2017 at 12:42pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Jul 19th, 2017 at 12:30pm:
Then we get epic lives. And epic lives are insane value. Perma stacked on a toon at lv1 starting with 40 prr, 200 hp, 40 ac, absorption, spell criticals, doubleshot, etc. The people smashing content with the best builds are not low numbered lives toons, they're packed with epic past lives and are godly compared to new characters.. 


This.  When reaper dropped, my mains had their heroic PL's done and were somewhere in the mid 20's on epic PL's.  They were sitting at cap.  I had two alt toons I work in in heroics getting their heroic PL's done.  I started running reaper on them, since I was doing heroic anyways.  One immediately went to cap to replace one of my mains for raiding.  The other had only a few heroic PL's left, so I was going to let it finish before replacing the other main at cap for raiding so that the mains could get racial PL's. 

The difference between the mains (with 20-30 epic PL's and the iconics done) vs. the alts (with almost as many heroic lives, but only 5-7 epic PL's) was completely transparent when I was doing Elite BB, but when running Reaper, it was very noticeable. 

The Reaper XP trees (especially that Grim Barricade of HP tree) and the epic/Iconic PL's which are either poorly level gated (reaper trees) or completely missing gating (Epic PL's) create a real problem for power gap and creep, especially in low heroics. 

To be fair, the advantages provided by Epic PL's is less significant in epics, especially at cap, but it is still a big factor in build performance, especially survivability.
  
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Re: jakee goes nanners
Reply #29 - Jul 19th, 2017 at 1:01pm
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I was actually shocked as shit that EPL stances and EPL bonuses applied @ level 1 when I got my first one.

It's a noticeable difference between first life toons rolled up to run with guildies and multi Heroic/Epic PL toons.
  

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Re: jakee goes nanners
Reply #30 - Jul 19th, 2017 at 1:16pm
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Asheras wrote on Jul 19th, 2017 at 12:42pm:
To be fair, the advantages provided by Epic PL's is less significant in epics

very true, in epics the gap can be closed much more easily. But for heroics that gap continues to widen now with reaper points and racial AP. Tacking on another year~ of racial and reaper grinding. The devs have dug themselves into a hole they can never dig out of, so the only recourse left is to dig down even further. You can't take away the lives done. That would cause the only people left playing to stop playing. Content now has to be balanced for this. And after enough racial and reaper points the r4-5s will be r8-10. Then what? We will be at the same place we were before reaper, just with less players. 

  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: jakee goes nanners
Reply #31 - Jul 19th, 2017 at 1:33pm
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DoRayEgon wrote on Jul 18th, 2017 at 3:21pm:
Game fucking sucks now.  I haven't logged since April.  Haven't missed it once.

Kinda sad, been playing for a long time.


I'm in the same boat and I'm on the PC... I'm sure there are other PC members and players in general that are holding their breath to see what Ravenloft will be like. I know personally having a glance at some of the stuff that may be coming there's some hope, however I'm just as jaded and cynical as the rest of you about how it may turn out.

In general I'd say give them til Ravenloft to make any decision about fully quitting DDO, until then take a break if you're burnt out.
  
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Re: jakee goes nanners
Reply #32 - Jul 19th, 2017 at 1:38pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Jul 19th, 2017 at 12:37pm:
good luck finding lfms for anything else when the entire game is playing reaper. hope you like to solo.


i see a lot of hard/elite pugs all through 1-20 on Khyber
  
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Re: jakee goes nanners
Reply #33 - Jul 19th, 2017 at 2:30pm
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harharharhar wrote on Jul 19th, 2017 at 1:38pm:
i see a lot of hard/elite pugs all through 1-20 on Khyber

On orien, which is still default iirc, just yesterday I was on for over an hour and saw no lfms at lv 7. Day before that nothing for level 5. Few days before that nothing at lv 18. This is during 2-10pm est.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: jakee goes nanners
Reply #34 - Jul 19th, 2017 at 2:52pm
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Yeah it's a bit depressing, I have a few heroic past lives, 4 or so epics, no racial's and I have been around a while. I do ok on reaper 1-3 but more than that I struggle. Most of the LFM's are at that level and I do well in a group but any new player is getting hammered. There is no way for a new player really to feel competent at that level and will just drive them away.

I am in the EU zone so LFM's are pretty sparse as it is, i guess having a separate server depending on your past lives would be a dream.
  
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Re: jakee goes nanners
Reply #35 - Jul 19th, 2017 at 3:10pm
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Whatamidoing wrote on Jul 19th, 2017 at 2:52pm:
guess having a separate server depending on your past lives would be a dream.

Who would join? I thought about that, too. Even if it were, say, a "classic" server with only 1-20 quests and raids. Even if they added all the epic raids and adjusted them for level 20. No one would leave the characters they spent thousands of hours and dollars on. There isn't any loot from the S/S/S system that is worth a farm, especially not with the new loot we have from the DoJ update onwards. Oh, and cannith crafting shits on those items as well. And if they made full level ranges then there is even less to do at 30. Slavers and LGS grind, then what? What are you going to do in this game but acquire past lives?
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: jakee goes nanners
Reply #36 - Jul 19th, 2017 at 3:58pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Jul 19th, 2017 at 3:10pm:
Who would join? I thought about that, too. Even if it were, say, a "classic" server with only 1-20 quests and raids. Even if they added all the epic raids and adjusted them for level 20. No one would leave the characters they spent thousands of hours and dollars on. There isn't any loot from the S/S/S system that is worth a farm, especially not with the new loot we have from the DoJ update onwards. Oh, and cannith crafting shits on those items as well. And if they made full level ranges then there is even less to do at 30. Slavers and LGS grind, then what? What are you going to do in this game but acquire past lives?


They built the longevity of the game around the TR, not the end game.  When cap went to 20, they had the option of freezing the level cap at 20 and building an end game there.  They kinda did that for 3 years from 2009-2012.  They ended up with about 10-11 end game raids (Reaver, Abbott, Hound, VoD, Shroud, ToD, LoB, MA, E Chrono, E VoN, E DQ) and 30-40 end game quests that were challenging, took time to run, and had strong, but not OP, loot.

They had the heroic TR grind, which, pre-BB was a bit of a slog, especially on the 4.3 mill XP track.  They could have stayed there and built the end game further and further and made that viable.  Eventually, with gear creep, they would be invalidating older content, but that creates the progression raiding environment.  People bringing along alts will be at lower levels of end game vs. higher. 

It could have worked.  But they moved the level cap 3 more times, each time invalidating all loot and content at the old cap, and thus starting over with a handful of end game quests and a small set of loot to get.  And they expanded the TR system 3 more times (Epic, Iconic, and Racial).  Which has additively increased "TR content" and added character progression value into the TR activity whereas  at cap/end game content and progression value gets reset to 0 every time you move it.

Given the 70 life(ish) weight of the TR content, they need a dozen or more raids and 70-80 quests at cap with cohesive progression systems that build at cap (reaper trees would have been great here.  Chance missed.  Put that in the TR content pile instead.  Cause it wasn't big enough yet...)   
« Last Edit: Jul 19th, 2017 at 3:59pm by Asheras »  
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Re: jakee goes nanners
Reply #37 - Jul 19th, 2017 at 4:43pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Jul 18th, 2017 at 4:29pm:
thrower's are gay and retarded.


Wink
  
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Re: jakee goes nanners
Reply #38 - Jul 19th, 2017 at 5:40pm
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Asheras wrote on Jul 19th, 2017 at 3:58pm:
They built the longevity of the game around the TR, not the end game.  When cap went to 20, they had the option of freezing the level cap at 20 and building an end game there.  They kinda did that for 3 years from 2009-2012.  They ended up with about 10-11 end game raids (Reaver, Abbott, Hound, VoD, Shroud, ToD, LoB, MA, E Chrono, E VoN, E DQ) and 30-40 end game quests that were challenging, took time to run, and had strong, but not OP, loot.

They had the heroic TR grind, which, pre-BB was a bit of a slog, especially on the 4.3 mill XP track.  They could have stayed there and built the end game further and further and made that viable.  Eventually, with gear creep, they would be invalidating older content, but that creates the progression raiding environment.  People bringing along alts will be at lower levels of end game vs. higher. 

It could have worked.  But they moved the level cap 3 more times, each time invalidating all loot and content at the old cap, and thus starting over with a handful of end game quests and a small set of loot to get.  And they expanded the TR system 3 more times (Epic, Iconic, and Racial).  Which has additively increased "TR content" and added character progression value into the TR activity whereas  at cap/end game content and progression value gets reset to 0 every time you move it.

Given the 70 life(ish) weight of the TR content, they need a dozen or more raids and 70-80 quests at cap with cohesive progression systems that build at cap (reaper trees would have been great here.  Chance missed.  Put that in the TR content pile instead.  Cause it wasn't big enough yet...) 

Solid.
  

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Re: jakee goes nanners
Reply #39 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 11:36am
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Skoodge wrote on Jul 19th, 2017 at 9:32am:
I gave up on reaper.  For a solo melee player, it's insanely boring.  It's do-able, but it becomes a total freaking crawl trying to avoid mobs.  Plus if 3 reapers spawn down a hall and it's only you and your hire, you're going to have a bad time.

I can see where it might be fun for the brilliant "I put all my points in one stat" builds, but I found it slow and boring as snot.

I actually don't run reaper past about Lvl 12 or so... The return on investment simply isn't there, IMHO.

Especially as a melee, like you said. Hell, it doesn't take 3 Reapers in a hall, one Carnage and some bad rolls is the end of that run (unless you have a Jibber's Blade, but I can't be assed to farm one)

So now I just grind the easy quests on r1 for 1st time XP, and Elite streak the rest for easy favour and TP.

If I get rXP great, if not... meh. Because seriously, what's the point of Reaper trees anyway?

To grind enough AP to have the cores function in non-Reapers?
To complete a tree to make Racial TRs faster on R1?
To get the Reaper vendors unlocked?

Those are sad and wilted carrots on a VERY long and tedious stick.

Because: Fuck it. I won't see triple completion anything before the servers go dark, and I have other shit to do with my time.
  

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Re: jakee goes nanners
Reply #40 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 11:39am
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Asheras wrote on Jul 19th, 2017 at 3:58pm:
They built the longevity of the game around the TR, not the end game.  When cap went to 20, they had the option of freezing the level cap at 20 and building an end game there.  They kinda did that for 3 years from 2009-2012.  They ended up with about 10-11 end game raids (Reaver, Abbott, Hound, VoD, Shroud, ToD, LoB, MA, E Chrono, E VoN, E DQ) and 30-40 end game quests that were challenging, took time to run, and had strong, but not OP, loot.

They had the heroic TR grind, which, pre-BB was a bit of a slog, especially on the 4.3 mill XP track.  They could have stayed there and built the end game further and further and made that viable.  Eventually, with gear creep, they would be invalidating older content, but that creates the progression raiding environment.  People bringing along alts will be at lower levels of end game vs. higher. 

It could have worked.  But they moved the level cap 3 more times, each time invalidating all loot and content at the old cap, and thus starting over with a handful of end game quests and a small set of loot to get.  And they expanded the TR system 3 more times (Epic, Iconic, and Racial).  Which has additively increased "TR content" and added character progression value into the TR activity whereas  at cap/end game content and progression value gets reset to 0 every time you move it.

Given the 70 life(ish) weight of the TR content, they need a dozen or more raids and 70-80 quests at cap with cohesive progression systems that build at cap (reaper trees would have been great here.  Chance missed.  Put that in the TR content pile instead.  Cause it wasn't big enough yet...)   

This.
  

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Re: jakee goes nanners
Reply #41 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 12:00pm
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Metal-Beast wrote on Jul 20th, 2017 at 11:36am:
If I get rXP great, if not... meh. Because seriously, what's the point of Reaper trees anyway?


Heard a number of the hardcore grinders say reaper is way easier for them than elite now ("I only have 20 points in the tree" he said without an ounce of irony).  I get where if you're grinding out racial completionist that it is probably worth your time to grind out the tree so you can run reaper at the higher levels and get that additional 30% XP boost.

But I'm personally only planning on going for a max (absolute max) of 12 past lives on this toon, so it's just not worth slowing down the first 6 lives to make the last 6 go slightly quicker. 

I think reaper is a great addition to keep a certain type of player happy.  But for those of us who work for a living, like you said: *meh*
  

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Re: jakee goes nanners
Reply #42 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 3:58pm
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The reaper XP curve might as well speak Mandarin.
  

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Re: jakee goes nanners
Reply #43 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 4:09pm
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Revaulting wrote on Jul 20th, 2017 at 3:58pm:
The reaper XP curve might as well speak Mandarin.

are there players on sarlona with capped trees?
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: jakee goes nanners
Reply #44 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 4:22pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Jul 20th, 2017 at 4:09pm:
are there players on sarlona with capped trees?

I don't think so. If there are, they then get transferred to another server & sold, so also no. Reaper XP might finally open DDO up to the Chinese grind market.
  

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Re: jakee goes nanners
Reply #45 - Jul 27th, 2017 at 1:37pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Jul 19th, 2017 at 12:30pm:
the real balance issue is past lives. heroic lives were fine, small incremental boosts that propped up builds; few dcs here, couple hps there, bit of hamp, and some damage. Nothing here screams unbalanced. The team that designed it actually played the game.

Then we get epic lives. And epic lives are insane value. Perma stacked on a toon at lv1 starting with 40 prr, 200 hp, 40 ac, absorption, spell criticals, doubleshot, etc. The people smashing content with the best builds are not low numbered lives toons, they're packed with epic past lives and are godly compared to new characters. I'm not aware of any other game that has this wide a chasm between characters. If, say, I were to start up WoW today, it would take me a couple months to hit cap and farm the some raids, get carried through some others, and get decently equipped. In ddo it would take a year or two of hardcore playing just to get the past lives that the current dev team balances content for. 

Pare this down a bit and put it in the banner quotes.
  
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Re: jakee goes nanners
Reply #46 - Jul 27th, 2017 at 2:42pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Jul 20th, 2017 at 4:09pm:
are there players on sarlona with capped trees?


Firegoddess is probably still the closest....
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/486904-Firegoddess-Finally-hit-the-2-5...
That was 2 months ago now so I'm sure you can extrapolate what he's likely got to now.
  

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Re: jakee goes nanners
Reply #47 - Jul 27th, 2017 at 2:45pm
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FranOhmsford wrote on Jul 27th, 2017 at 2:42pm:
Firegoddess is probably still the closest....
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/486904-Firegoddess-Finally-hit-the-2-5...
That was 2 months ago now so I'm sure you can extrapolate what he's likely got to now.

There is a guy from khyber with a youtube vid up with 3 million RXP(54~ RAP) as of May. Highest I have seen.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: jakee goes nanners
Reply #48 - Jul 27th, 2017 at 4:25pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Jul 27th, 2017 at 2:45pm:
There is a guy from khyber with a youtube vid up with 3 million RXP(54~ RAP) as of May. Highest I have seen.


I know of guildies and channel mates on Khyber with 30 racial lives done and 2-4 million reaper XP.  They can cap Thaumaturge, for sure, the smallest of the 3 trees.  People are making builds based on 70-75 reaper AP in trees.  I guess that is the target for some.  That's at the 5.6 million mark.
  
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Re: jakee goes nanners
Reply #49 - Jul 27th, 2017 at 4:31pm
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Asheras wrote on Jul 27th, 2017 at 4:25pm:
I know of guildies and channel mates on Khyber with 30 racial lives done and 2-4 million reaper XP.  They can cap Thaumaturge, for sure, the smallest of the 3 trees.  People are making builds based on 70-75 reaper AP in trees.  I guess that is the target for some.  That's at the 5.6 million mark. 


completely insane
  
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