Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
Normal Topic Looking for a stick build for the current game (Read 5721 times)
chummer
Korthos Resident
*
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 4
Joined: Nov 17th, 2017
Looking for a stick build for the current game
Dec 10th, 2017 at 1:48pm
Print Post  
Hello all,

I've always thought a quarterstaff user would be kind of fun to play around with. I've been researching stick builds but haven't seemed to find any that are recent. Any ideas of a build would be greatly appreciated! So far I've seen fighter/rogue mixes and paladin/monk mixes as well. Just wondering what a good path would be to follow.

I'm just getting back into the game so I don't have much of an idea of what the basis of these kinds of builds would be. Thank you.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Vendui
Releaser Of Exploits
*
Offline


Dare to tempt your fates?
Everything has a price.

Posts: 2492
Location: Central WI
Joined: Oct 31st, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Looking for a stick build for the current game
Reply #1 - Dec 10th, 2017 at 2:51pm
Print Post  
12 rogue, 8 monk for Henshin Thief Acrobat. The rest.. others can figure out! Cheesy
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
platfarmchink
Abbot Raider
**
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 861
Joined: Feb 28th, 2016
Re: Looking for a stick build for the current game
Reply #2 - Dec 10th, 2017 at 4:08pm
Print Post  
Don't forget to splash druid for bear form.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Vendui
Releaser Of Exploits
*
Offline


Dare to tempt your fates?
Everything has a price.

Posts: 2492
Location: Central WI
Joined: Oct 31st, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Looking for a stick build for the current game
Reply #3 - Dec 10th, 2017 at 4:26pm
Print Post  
platfarmchink wrote on Dec 10th, 2017 at 4:08pm:
Don't forget to splash druid for bear form.

https://i.imgur.com/2iIKB.gif


oh fuck thats right.. so uh. 12r/6m/2d.. if you want bear ofc Tongue
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Arganthonius
Korthos Resident
*
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 53
Joined: Apr 12th, 2016
Re: Looking for a stick build for the current game
Reply #4 - Dec 10th, 2017 at 6:32pm
Print Post  
Wouldn't that mean you have to use STR, and couldn't go Int or Dex based?
Would the critical range of your weapon be considered, or would it use the base 20/x2 for unarmed (meaning that Elemental Bloom, for example, wouldn't be significantly better than other qstaffs)?
Also, it's only +2 Con and +10% bonus to AC. Is it really worth it? Wouldn't Wolf form be better?

Or is this a joke I'm just not getting?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Vendui
Releaser Of Exploits
*
Offline


Dare to tempt your fates?
Everything has a price.

Posts: 2492
Location: Central WI
Joined: Oct 31st, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Looking for a stick build for the current game
Reply #5 - Dec 10th, 2017 at 6:35pm
Print Post  
Arganthonius wrote on Dec 10th, 2017 at 6:32pm:
Wouldn't that mean you have to use STR, and couldn't go Int or Dex based?
Would the critical range of your weapon be considered, or would it use the base 20/x2 for unarmed (meaning that Elemental Bloom, for example, wouldn't be significantly better than other qstaffs)?
Also, it's only +2 Con and +10% bonus to AC. Is it really worth it? Wouldn't Wolf form be better?

Or is this a joke I'm just not getting?


Monk and Rogue both have options in trees to use Dex for staffs.. you really are silly XD

If you wernt going to take rogue for the insane speed boost while staff wielding (no really, its freaking insane how fast a thief acrobat can swing their sticks), you would drop 6 points into Ninja Spy to gain Dexterity to Hit and Dmg while Centered, otherwise.. just take the rogue thief acrobat stuff, cuz they are required to get Kip-Up, which makes you immune to just about everything movement impairing. Both the Staff Control/Stick Fighting (rogue) and Basic Ninja Training/Advanced Ninja Training (monk) do the same sorta thing, cept Rogues applies only to Staffs, where as Monks applies to literally anything you can hold in y our hands, and remain centered with.
« Last Edit: Dec 10th, 2017 at 6:41pm by Vendui »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Arganthonius
Korthos Resident
*
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 53
Joined: Apr 12th, 2016
Re: Looking for a stick build for the current game
Reply #6 - Dec 10th, 2017 at 6:39pm
Print Post  
I thought animal forms could only use STR to hit and dmg, regardless of feats/enhancements.

"The ability that determines your attack and damage bonus is strength. Abilities that change the ability that applies to damage such as Flame Blade or Weapon Finesse do not change the damage and attack of your natural attack."

from http://ddowiki.com/page/Wild_Shape.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
5 Foot Step
Completionist (i.t.p.)
******
Offline


I Hate Idiots!

Posts: 11119
Location: USA
Joined: Mar 8th, 2014
Gender: Male
Re: Looking for a stick build for the current game
Reply #7 - Dec 10th, 2017 at 6:41pm
Print Post  
« Last Edit: Dec 10th, 2017 at 6:43pm by 5 Foot Step »  

Build links
Endgame Gear Guide
Cannith Crafting Planner link

Warning: May contain outdated cultural depictions.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Vendui
Releaser Of Exploits
*
Offline


Dare to tempt your fates?
Everything has a price.

Posts: 2492
Location: Central WI
Joined: Oct 31st, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Looking for a stick build for the current game
Reply #8 - Dec 10th, 2017 at 6:42pm
Print Post  
5 Foot Step wrote on Dec 10th, 2017 at 6:41pm:
Probably 20 monk?


Pure monk < Rogue/Monk when it comes to specifically staffs. A Thief Acrobat gains ridiculous amounts of attack speed increase with staffs, similar to how fast monks can throw punches in wraps.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Vendui
Releaser Of Exploits
*
Offline


Dare to tempt your fates?
Everything has a price.

Posts: 2492
Location: Central WI
Joined: Oct 31st, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Looking for a stick build for the current game
Reply #9 - Dec 10th, 2017 at 6:44pm
Print Post  
Arganthonius wrote on Dec 10th, 2017 at 6:39pm:
I thought animal forms could only use STR to hit and dmg, regardless of feats/enhancements.

"The ability that determines your attack and damage bonus is strength. Abilities that change the ability that applies to damage such as Flame Blade or Weapon Finesse do not change the damage and attack of your natural attack."

from http://ddowiki.com/page/Wild_Shape.


Oh.. you thought the Druid bit wasnt a joke.. even with the hilarious Gif Attachment.. My bad.. carry on not getting it ^-^
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Arganthonius
Korthos Resident
*
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 53
Joined: Apr 12th, 2016
Re: Looking for a stick build for the current game
Reply #10 - Dec 10th, 2017 at 6:45pm
Print Post  
That's only true in heroics. Henshin Mystic Capstone has +15% attack speed w/q staffs, the same as the rogue t1 enhancement.
Also, monks get bonuses to crit mult with qstaffs in Cauldron of Flame, which requires 18 monk.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Vendui
Releaser Of Exploits
*
Offline


Dare to tempt your fates?
Everything has a price.

Posts: 2492
Location: Central WI
Joined: Oct 31st, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Looking for a stick build for the current game
Reply #11 - Dec 10th, 2017 at 7:01pm
Print Post  
Arganthonius wrote on Dec 10th, 2017 at 6:45pm:
That's only true in heroics. Henshin Mystic Capstone has +15% attack speed w/q staffs, the same as the rogue t1 enhancement.
Also, monks get bonuses to crit mult with qstaffs in Cauldron of Flame, which requires 18 monk.


Im not sure what you talkin bout here.. CoF never gave Crit multi, that I remember at least, and Wiki also doesnt know:

Description: Fire Ki Spell-Like ability: You expend 30 ki to will flame into the world around you. Enemies around you take 2d6 fire damage every 2 seconds, increasing by an additional 2d6 damage every 2 seconds that you remain standing in the flames. This damage scales with 2x Melee Power. If you leave the area of the flames, this effect ends. A successful reflex save (DC 10 + monk level, + Wisdom modifier + Stunning Bonuses) reduces damage by half. While wielding a quarterstaff inside your Cauldron of Flame, you gain +20 PRR, +10 MRR, and +15% Dodge that ignores Dodge Cap.

all CoF did, was literally made you a walking fireball.

In total, a Monk can get a total of: +7 to hit and +9 dmg from tree to qst

A Rogue/Monk can get: +11 to hit and +15 to dmg w/qst, as well as an additional 10 melee power on the tier 5 +3 to-hit/dmg enhancement towards everything melee oriented.


~edit~ forgot, both can take tier 5 +1 crit multiplier, and threat range increase enhancements at lvl 12~

~Edit 2~ Did now however take into note the additional Melee power obtained from Henshin cores.. thats a net loss of 35 Melee Power from a Pure.. MP fucked everything when it came out.. I would have to actually roll each build, and see which performed better now that MP is a factor in things.
« Last Edit: Dec 10th, 2017 at 7:08pm by Vendui »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Arganthonius
Korthos Resident
*
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 53
Joined: Apr 12th, 2016
Re: Looking for a stick build for the current game
Reply #12 - Dec 10th, 2017 at 7:15pm
Print Post  
Sorry, the CoF crit mult is from the capstone.

"While wielding a quarterstaff inside your Cauldron of Flame, you gain +5 to hit and damage, and a +1 Critical Multiplier.
+15% attack speed with quarterstaves."

http://ddowiki.com/page/Henshin_Mystic_enhancements

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Vendui
Releaser Of Exploits
*
Offline


Dare to tempt your fates?
Everything has a price.

Posts: 2492
Location: Central WI
Joined: Oct 31st, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Looking for a stick build for the current game
Reply #13 - Dec 10th, 2017 at 7:30pm
Print Post  
Arganthonius wrote on Dec 10th, 2017 at 7:15pm:
Sorry, the CoF crit mult is from the capstone.

"While wielding a quarterstaff inside your Cauldron of Flame, you gain +5 to hit and damage, and a +1 Critical Multiplier.
+15% attack speed with quarterstaves."

http://ddowiki.com/page/Henshin_Mystic_enhancements



Right.. hms.. interesting.. Pure might actually pull ahead due to the MP gain from the last 3 cores then..
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
chummer
Korthos Resident
*
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 4
Joined: Nov 17th, 2017
Re: Looking for a stick build for the current game
Reply #14 - Dec 11th, 2017 at 11:21am
Print Post  
Thank you guys for the responses! From what I can see there is a debate between going pure monk or a 14/6 rogue/monk mix. I think I'd prefer the rogue/monk mix for the sole reason that I will be able to help out with trapping and such, something that I don't believe a pure monk would be able to do (correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a long time since I've played this game). I will most likely be playing this build with a friend and I think that the party utility gained from being a rogue could help us out.

With that in mind, I don't know much about how I'd actually build up the character. Any information about which class to take at what levels, skills, starting stats, race, enhancement paths, feats, etc. that you guys have would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
platfarmchink
Abbot Raider
**
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 861
Joined: Feb 28th, 2016
Re: Looking for a stick build for the current game
Reply #15 - Dec 11th, 2017 at 12:38pm
Print Post  
Hi there, DDO is hurd. Can u pls build my toon and level me up pls?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Vendui
Releaser Of Exploits
*
Offline


Dare to tempt your fates?
Everything has a price.

Posts: 2492
Location: Central WI
Joined: Oct 31st, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Looking for a stick build for the current game
Reply #16 - Dec 11th, 2017 at 12:50pm
Print Post  
chummer wrote on Dec 11th, 2017 at 11:21am:
Thank you guys for the responses! From what I can see there is a debate between going pure monk or a 14/6 rogue/monk mix. I think I'd prefer the rogue/monk mix for the sole reason that I will be able to help out with trapping and such, something that I don't believe a pure monk would be able to do (correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a long time since I've played this game). I will most likely be playing this build with a friend and I think that the party utility gained from being a rogue could help us out.

With that in mind, I don't know much about how I'd actually build up the character. Any information about which class to take at what levels, skills, starting stats, race, enhancement paths, feats, etc. that you guys have would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!


Most welcome. I wont write up a build for it tho, the debate of going str or dex is likely still a thing.. Str will offer more dmg in the long run, but ive always liked dex builds. something about hitting 84+ dex, before all these crazy +20 stat items ive been hearing about, was fun.

(There are multiple sources for temporary Str buffs, rage for example. But nothing for Dex save for Tensers, which also buffs Str, and stacks with Rage ;x)

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Digimonk
Puppy Farmer
****
Offline



Posts: 1573
Joined: Apr 7th, 2015
Re: Looking for a stick build for the current game
Reply #17 - Dec 11th, 2017 at 4:11pm
Print Post  
The pure monk will likely be more DPS, especially if you build for the melee power.

Another thing to consider is defenses.  A pure monk build should have a significant advantage in defense over a rogue icon.  15% faster runspeed, AC, saves, Shadow Veil, slightly better self healing, better wings, etc.  If I remember correctly, you can get >50% standing dodge in gm water stance.

If you're planning on running a melee in anything above 1-skull reaper, you have to build for solid defenses just as much as you do for DPS.  You'll want as much AC, PRR, dodge cap and other damage avoidance options as you can squeeze in.

The downsides to pure monk are the lack of trapping and that you have to hit 20 before you the passive 15% attack speed bonus from the Henshin capstone.  Rogue splashes get that same 15% bonus with 2 levels of rogue so they get to enjoy it for 18 more levels than a monk.

« Last Edit: Dec 11th, 2017 at 4:15pm by Digimonk »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Alex DeLarge
Epic Poster
*****
Offline


Get ready for some of
the 'ol in-out, in-out

Posts: 3460
Location: Foggy Albion
Joined: May 11th, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Looking for a stick build for the current game
Reply #18 - Dec 11th, 2017 at 10:19pm
Print Post  
Digimonk wrote on Dec 11th, 2017 at 4:11pm:
A pure monk build should have a significant advantage in defense over a rogue icon.


Defensive roll -> improved defensive roll.
  

Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Vendui
Releaser Of Exploits
*
Offline


Dare to tempt your fates?
Everything has a price.

Posts: 2492
Location: Central WI
Joined: Oct 31st, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Looking for a stick build for the current game
Reply #19 - Dec 11th, 2017 at 11:14pm
Print Post  
Digimonk wrote on Dec 11th, 2017 at 4:11pm:
The pure monk will likely be more DPS, especially if you build for the melee power.

Another thing to consider is defenses.  A pure monk build should have a significant advantage in defense over a rogue icon.  15% faster runspeed, AC, saves, Shadow Veil, slightly better self healing, better wings, etc.  If I remember correctly, you can get >50% standing dodge in gm water stance.

If you're planning on running a melee in anything above 1-skull reaper, you have to build for solid defenses just as much as you do for DPS.  You'll want as much AC, PRR, dodge cap and other damage avoidance options as you can squeeze in.

The downsides to pure monk are the lack of trapping and that you have to hit 20 before you the passive 15% attack speed bonus from the Henshin capstone.  Rogue splashes get that same 15% bonus with 2 levels of rogue so they get to enjoy it for 18 more levels than a monk.



You cant rule out the Rogues natural gain of Sneak Attack dice, which is a given in like.. 99% of content.

18 monk < 14 rogue is a no brainer, only a 20 monk will out dps a rogue monk splash, due to the capstone.
« Last Edit: Dec 11th, 2017 at 11:15pm by Vendui »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Digimonk
Puppy Farmer
****
Offline



Posts: 1573
Joined: Apr 7th, 2015
Re: Looking for a stick build for the current game
Reply #20 - Dec 12th, 2017 at 12:31am
Print Post  
Alex DeLarge wrote on Dec 11th, 2017 at 10:19pm:
Defensive roll -> improved defensive roll.

Yes, that's nice but you have to already be below 50% hp for it to work and all the combined defenses the monk gets are still better. 


Vendui wrote on Dec 11th, 2017 at 11:14pm:
18 monk < 14 rogue is a no brainer, only a 20 monk will out dps a rogue monk splash, due to the capstone.

Umm, that's essentially a repeat of what I said. 

I didn't mean that an 18/2 monk/rogue was optimum.  I just meant that an X/Y Rogue/Monk build got the 15% attack speed bonus with the first two levels of rogue.
« Last Edit: Dec 12th, 2017 at 12:35am by Digimonk »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Alex DeLarge
Epic Poster
*****
Offline


Get ready for some of
the 'ol in-out, in-out

Posts: 3460
Location: Foggy Albion
Joined: May 11th, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Looking for a stick build for the current game
Reply #21 - Dec 12th, 2017 at 12:56am
Print Post  
Digimonk wrote on Dec 12th, 2017 at 12:31am:
Yes, that's nice but you have to already be below 50% hp for it to work and all the combined defenses the monk gets are still better. 


except we talking here about a splash build which is usually 14rog/6monk and has most of the defenses that a pure monk gets w/ rogues natural defenses.
  

Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Korvel
Korthos Resident
*
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 27
Joined: Jan 21st, 2016
Re: Looking for a stick build for the current game
Reply #22 - Dec 12th, 2017 at 5:48am
Print Post  
When we are talking about dps what are the absolute numbers a pure monk and a 14 rogue 6 monk split get? It can help people decide. Moreover what is the endgame staff such a build can use?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Vendui
Releaser Of Exploits
*
Offline


Dare to tempt your fates?
Everything has a price.

Posts: 2492
Location: Central WI
Joined: Oct 31st, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Looking for a stick build for the current game
Reply #23 - Dec 12th, 2017 at 6:42am
Print Post  
Korvel wrote on Dec 12th, 2017 at 5:48am:
When we are talking about dps what are the absolute numbers a pure monk and a 14 rogue 6 monk split get? It can help people decide. Moreover what is the endgame staff such a build can use?


Let me know if there are any points of Dexterity I missed.. I feel as though it should be breaking 100.. almost hitting 110 even. Hms.

Good question. Taking purely theoreticals here, since every player is different, so are less or more likely to be able to micro manage various gear swaps to maintain max Dexterity possible (something around 130 now i hear.. just insanes XD) Lets break down that first, so we can see what our to-hit/dmg bonus looks like:

20 Base
+7 Level-up
+7 Tome
+4 Class Enhancements
+2 Racial Enhancements
+4 Harper Enhancements
+4 Ultimate Air Stance
+2 Racial PL Feats for Elf and Halfling
+2 Completionist Feat
+17 Item Enhancement Bonus (Item) (Been seeing +20 is a thing now? fuck I need to get on and play more if this is the case.. )
+8 Insightful(Item, Random loot (Legendary Greensteel +7 max)
+2 Exceptional(Legendary Greensteel)
+4 Quality Item
+2 Artifact (Legendary Slave Lords Might Set)
+2 Guild Airship Buffs
+4 Alchemical Tenser's Transformation
+2 Yugoloth
+3* Sentient Jewel
Total: 94 sustainable Dexterity.. not all that much higher than when I was still around, currently can hit 86 on my Shuri. not bad. anyhow.. This can be attained by both the pure Monk, and the Rogue/Monk splashes. (Possibly 2 less on the pure, unless you put points into Ninja as well, which you will need to to gain the Dex to hit/dmg anyhow.)

Next, we take a look at sneak attack dice, and feat options available to the Rogue 14, that are not available to rogue 2/pure monk variants:

Pure Monk can obtain a total of 4d6 SA, through tier 1 to 4 Ninja Spy tree, T5 is a stretch, unless you sacrifice some melee power from harper.

2 rogue, gains an additional 1d6, but loses tier 4 from ninja to compensate for taking tier 1 for faster attack speed in Thief Acrobat. However, will still have to spend 5 points into Ninja, because 3 rogue is needed to not waste points on the same core 1 ability twice. for a total of 4d6 SA.

14/6 Rogue Gains an additional 6d6 from levels, but will lose the 4d6 from ninja to take full advantage of Thief Acrobat tree. Standard 7d6 from Class SA as a total. Defensively, a 10 or higher rogue, gains the option of taking Defensive Roll, which allows you a chance, equal to your Reflex save, to take half dmg while at a certain HP threshold. Due to it being a Dex based build, with almost 100 Dexterity, we have almost a 45 bonus to reflex saves, just from Dex. Not including +10 item, Greater Heroism, Haste, and other goodies. IE: Once at, or under, 50% hp, you will likely always take half dmg.. cuz yay Reflex Cheesy.


~New Additions - +6 from Sentient Jewls, if you really wished to do it that way.. Otherwise:
1: Spines of the Manticore: Dexterity
2: Spines of the Manticore: Attack and Damage
3: The Long Shadow: Dexterity
4: The Long Shadow: Attack and Damage
5: The Long Shadow: Melee Power
6: Sucker Punch: Melee Power
7: Sucker Punch: Dexterity

Set Bonus: Manticore 2 set +2 dmg; Shadow 2 and 3 set +5 Melee/Ranged Power, +4d6 +(1d6*Epic Level) Acid dmg per hit; Sucker Punch 2 set +5 Melee Power
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Korvel
Korthos Resident
*
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 27
Joined: Jan 21st, 2016
Re: Looking for a stick build for the current game
Reply #24 - Dec 12th, 2017 at 9:53am
Print Post  
One problem is that pure monk gives you 75 melee power from enchantments and rogue 14 / monk 6 give you (if you get tier 5 from acrobat) a total of 40 melee power. Any comments?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint