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Hot Topic (More than 35 Replies) U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08 (Read 4697 times)
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U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08
Apr 6th, 2021 at 2:10pm
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Seems like some minor updates
  
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Re: U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08
Reply #1 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 2:14pm
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Re: U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08
Reply #2 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 2:15pm
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Re: U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08
Reply #3 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 2:15pm
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Re: U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08
Reply #4 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 2:15pm
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Re: U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08
Reply #5 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 2:16pm
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Re: U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08
Reply #6 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 2:17pm
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The named loot from the Lordsmarch Plaza quests (Eyes of Stone, Assault on Summerfield, etc.) has been slightly updated to match modern scaling effects standards. They have not been redesigned but have instead had effects that were basic static stat boosts moved over to modern scaling effects on the Cannith Crafting iLevel standard. This only applies to newly created copies of these items. LAMANNIA ONLY: They are available to preview via The Loot Guy located in the center of the Test Dojo.
  
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Re: U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08
Reply #7 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 2:19pm
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In Update 49 we are making significant changes to how melee and missile combat is calculated to address long-term community and development team concerns about game performance. If you're curious, we've included a long form explanation as to what these changes entail on the back end, but if you're interested in just the changes and the results, here's what we've found:

Before this change: Simulations of a raid group proccing on-hit effects use approx 99.965% processing per-instance and produce an effects queue, which causes combat processing lag for all players on the same server while the queue is processed.
After this change: Simulations of a raid group proccing on-hit effects use approx 50% available processing per-instance (still well within the green zone of server frames per second) and rarely if ever hit an effects queue.

An important thing to note when going into this is that when an effects queue happens, it does not only affect your instance, but every other instance on the server that your instance is being processed by. Server in this case does not refer to world, such as Ghallanda or Sarlona or Wayfinder, but the actual machines that process DDO and share the load of each instance between them.

This also alleviates a source of client lag (floaty text queue), so if you play with floaty text off to alleviate client strain, this will prevent that strain by removing pressure from the floaty text queue.

Background Information

We've dedicated a lot of time to investigating and alleviating specific sources of reproducible lag within DDO in recent months. One of the most frequent causes of lag happens when an Effects Queue forms. This means that players have applied a ton of on-hit effects to a monster and the game has reached a buffer and must clear its queue in order to continue processing new information.

You can see this happen in raid groups; the party jumps in, opens up with a ton of active attacks and on-hit effects, and the game begins to degrade in performance almost immediately. It is also worth noting that this kind of lag has two separate portions: Client Combat Lag (which can be alleviated by turning off Floaty Text in your settings) and Server Combat Lag. We are specifically targeting Server based lag with this change. Behind the scenes, the server crunches damage, effects, and debuffs in a big queue. We can measure how efficient the server is at processing this queue by measuring the server frames.

To begin researching and addressing the root causes we put together simulations of a standard raid group and their on-hit profiles. Simulations of a raid group attacking a single target quickly ran into the same kind of performance problems that have become prevalent in raid groups, so we knew we had a reliable test case. What we found was that the amount of damage dealt didn't matter, it was about the frequency that effects were being applied. It didn't matter if a simulation was against one target or many - if the effects queue was in trouble the rest of the instance had its performance significantly impacted. That means lag for not just you and your group but for other people on the server.

What's Changing

    Doublestrike and Doubleshot will no longer apply a full subsequent "attack" as part of your attack chain. Instead, when a player Doublestrikes or Doubleshots (for brevity, we will call this a multi-hit from now on, just remember that this applies for all melee and all ranged) the game will instead multiply the base amount of damage dealt (first number and sneak attack) by the amount of multi-hits generated. This means that a player who deals an average of 100 damage on their first hit will now deal 200, or 300 damage, or however many multi-hits multiplied by their base damage, when their multi-hit goes off.
    When a multi-hit happens, you'll see an icon of two swords next to your damage in the floaty text, similar to how Point Blank Shot provides its feedback.
    Abilities that apply additional ranged projectiles (Shuriken Expertise and Advanced Ninja Training) no longer apply multiple hits or projectiles. Instead, just as if they had been purely Doubleshot scalars, they will simply be additional chances to multi-hit.
    Effects that trigger on-hit will also have their damage multiplied comparatively. This means that if you deal 10 Law damage on each hit, on a doublestrike, it will deal 20.
    Repeating Crossbows and the Dual Crossbow style still fire 3 or 2 full projectiles (so you'll still see 3 numbers or 2 numbers, respectively) and are still affected by their Doubleshot penalties of 66% and 50%, respectively.
    A player's 100% effective Doublestrike cap still applies in this system.
    Offhand strikes will still be a separate "hit" and will roll their own damage from their own weapon and can still Doublestrike. However, we have removed the stat Offhand Doublestrike from the game. Your offhand now Doublestrikes at 50% of the Doublestrike of your mainhand. This means that if you have a 50% chance to produce an offhand strike, and 100% Doublestrike, your offhand will hit 50% of the time for 50% Doublestrike (so a 50% chance to deal double damage). Abilities and enhancements that used to provide Offhand Doublestrike no longer do so.
    Shields still cannot Doublestrike.
    Strikethrough attacks still proc their own Doublestrike roll individually per target struck.
    The main reasoning behind these changes (letting repeaters and offhand strikes still proc rather than fully condensing) is that we want to keep our damage numbers appropriate to the amount of animations that a player actually produces.



A major effect of this change is that you will see much spikier damage across the board. The multi-hit calculation takes the original roll into account when determining damage, which means that you'll see much higher highs and much lower lows. Attacks that crit will multiply that increased damage, so you'll see much higher numbers on those attacks. Attacks that miss will deal no damage, as before, but rather than a multi-hit giving a chance for a second strike to deal damage, they will still deal no damage, as the original strike has missed.

These changes eliminate the Floaty-text queue in practice. Players who are used to seeing damage numbers scroll by on a delay will see the system replaced with numbers that are current. This will make DPS easier to estimate from a series of hits, and there will simply be fewer numbers to add up and adjust.

The Crunchy Details

Curious as to what's actually happening when a player attacks? Currently, when a player Doublestrikes or Doubleshots, we actually handle those types of attacks through very different flows. Both melee and missile attacks use something that we call a detect-attack to deal their regular damage, but how they get there is very different. Right now, a player “Doublestrikes” when their attack scripts use their Doublestrike stat to determine if they fire off another detect-attack. A player “Doubleshots” when the Missile Attacker code gets to the part in the code where we determine how many "Missiles" are a part of the projectile. From there, the scripts use the number of missiles to determine how many times they use a detect-attack.

Now, when a player “attacks” (from the detect-attack callback or elsewhere) the determination to Doublestrike or Doubleshot is made within that single attack call. The appropriate stats are queried, even the weird ones like the Shuriken multi-throw feats, and the appropriate adjustments to the chances are made such as the Doubleshot penalty from using a repeater or dual crossbow. From there, we determine how many “extra attacks” you have rolled, and if you have any bonus “attacks,” we multiply the damage you would deal by that amount.

We also have to do some funky stuff to get the damage of procs to double or triple or quadruple, and that starts in the same place where we calculate the number of effective hits. The combat code saves the number of hits and passes it down the chain until it gets to the place where effects actually deal their damage. From there, the effect will understand how many times it needs to be multiplied.

So, for comparison: Before, a melee character swings with his weapon, and Doublestrikes, which would be two detect-attacks, two damage rolls, and two series of on-hit effect triggers. Under these changes, the player attacks, Doublestrikes, and double damage is dealt, but only one set of on-hit-effects trigger because, to the game, only one “attack” took place.

What this means in practice is that no matter how many projectiles a shuriken thrower uses, or a dual-crossbow player fires, the maximum rate of an on-hit effect is now directly linked to your actual attack speed, and therefore, is significantly reduced. This has the potential to greatly reduce the amount of actual “attacks” in DDO without greatly disrupting player behavior.

Summary

The end result of this change should be improved gameplay on the performance end. Furthermore, the numbers you see while dealing damage will more accurately reflect what's happening in the moment, and you should be able to make calculations more quickly. We hope that you'll give this a solid try on Lamannia and look forward to your feedback, both on the usability of this change and any change in performance therein.
  
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SpaceGoat
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Re: U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08
Reply #8 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 2:23pm
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Doublestrike and Doubleshot will no longer apply a full subsequent "attack" as part of your attack chain. Instead, when a player Doublestrikes or Doubleshots (for brevity, we will call this a multi-hit from now on, just remember that this applies for all melee and all ranged) the game will instead multiply the base amount of damage dealt (first number and sneak attack) by the amount of multi-hits generated. This means that a player who deals an average of 100 damage on their first hit will now deal 200, or 300 damage, or however many multi-hits multiplied by their base damage, when their multi-hit goes off.


Prepare for some very interesting numbers
  
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Dragonborn
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Re: U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08
Reply #9 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 2:24pm
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At the risk of sounding like the moron I am, can I ask a question to those in the know:  15 years, better servers, better customer computers, much much smaller online population, better online speeds all using the same engine as before... so why more lag, and is all the technobabble SSG putting out just dazzling bullshit?

And I know this will make me sound like a moron.. again, but when I run my 10 and 15 year old games on my current computers they run friggen amazing, so what am I missing?
  

noamineo wrote on Dec 24th, 2021 at 12:04pm:
Sadly only scammers are "selling" boxes now. But if you do want to get scammed, I know a guy.


OSeanessy wrote on Dec 26th, 2021 at 6:03am:
Just for the record, I bought ten stones from Dragonborn a few days back. Fair and civil trade which went smoothly
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Re: U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08
Reply #10 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 2:35pm
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RIP non damaging proc effects.
  
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Re: U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08
Reply #11 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 2:35pm
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Quote:
The Ten Thousand Stars feat no longer works with Bows; it now only applies its effects while using Shuriken.


Cue the salty salty... salty tears.
  

noamineo wrote on Dec 24th, 2021 at 12:04pm:
Sadly only scammers are "selling" boxes now. But if you do want to get scammed, I know a guy.


OSeanessy wrote on Dec 26th, 2021 at 6:03am:
Just for the record, I bought ten stones from Dragonborn a few days back. Fair and civil trade which went smoothly
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Re: U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08
Reply #12 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 2:42pm
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Prepare the popcorn lol
  
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Re: U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08
Reply #13 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 2:42pm
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Devs are going to get reamed out with questions and cries.
  
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Re: U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08
Reply #14 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 2:47pm
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SpaceGoat wrote on Apr 6th, 2021 at 2:35pm:
RIP non damaging proc effects.


Correct me if I'm reading it wrong but this will seriously ding the AA's banish, smite, and terror arrows won't it? while the elemental arrows and force will still be sweet.
  

noamineo wrote on Dec 24th, 2021 at 12:04pm:
Sadly only scammers are "selling" boxes now. But if you do want to get scammed, I know a guy.


OSeanessy wrote on Dec 26th, 2021 at 6:03am:
Just for the record, I bought ten stones from Dragonborn a few days back. Fair and civil trade which went smoothly
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Re: U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08
Reply #15 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 2:55pm
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Seems like stats will be useful in different ways. Building for reliable multi-hit and crits? I suppose we do that now anyway. I'll have a play as I'm interested in the spikier damage profile.

I wonder if we can have some melee attack speed back now the pressure from the proc calcs etc. is much reduced? Wonder if they tested adding back some TWF speed? I guess these days damage is higher so they'd have to rebalance a load of other stuff and it's too much work.
  
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Re: U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08
Reply #16 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 3:15pm
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Double strike doesn't have a second chance to miss, it should result in more DPS.
  
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Re: U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08
Reply #17 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 3:22pm
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Dragonborn wrote on Apr 6th, 2021 at 2:24pm:
t the risk of sounding like the moron I am, can I ask a question to those in the know:  15 years, better servers, better customer computers, much much smaller online population, better online speeds all using the same engine as before... so why more lag, and is all the technobabble SSG putting out just dazzling bullshit?


They pay for their internet just like most people do.  Except they are a business, and they are cutting costs.  They are on the cheapest plan/hosting/bandwidth/priority routing they can find.

Less players, faster computers, faster internet, MOAR lag.
  
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Re: U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08
Reply #18 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 3:23pm
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You know what? fuck it.

They are going to do what they are going to do, especially now that they made some changes to the initial bow pass. Almost every time they have had to wind something back in the past they would dig their heels in on changing anything else after that, if not just to make clear that they didn't answer to players (which honestly might be a smart move on their part.).

Anyway, back to my point, Fuck it.

I mean why get myself all worked up and blow a ton of energy posting and trying to get some kind of response or pointing out some overlooked thing or choice? No, this time I'm just gonna play whatever they go live with and figure it out from there. I mean why waste all that spare time and angst when 5fs, Delarge, Rubbins, and god knows how many other builders on the mains will figure out some cool new thing and the beat goes on right?

Nope, I'm going have some fun with my manyshot while I got it and whatever comes next. Bows combat is dead, long live bow combat.
  

noamineo wrote on Dec 24th, 2021 at 12:04pm:
Sadly only scammers are "selling" boxes now. But if you do want to get scammed, I know a guy.


OSeanessy wrote on Dec 26th, 2021 at 6:03am:
Just for the record, I bought ten stones from Dragonborn a few days back. Fair and civil trade which went smoothly
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Re: U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08
Reply #19 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 3:42pm
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johnnyonthespot wrote on Apr 6th, 2021 at 3:15pm:
Double strike doesn't have a second chance to miss, it should result in more DPS.


Good point.
  
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Re: U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08
Reply #20 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 4:10pm
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Since my offhand doublestrike at cap on my tempest was around 47% to a mainhand doublestrike of 81%, this new offhand doublestrike cap of 50% of current doublestrike is going to be just another nerf to TWFs.

Honestly, I’m surprised that pudgy, greasy weeble wobble didn’t try to kill off Dance of Death again.
  
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Re: U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08
Reply #21 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 4:33pm
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rip tempest, cant proc the effects fast as before, rip raid swaps and debuffing.

rip monkers.  so much for build diversity with bows.

All because suddenly, SUDDENLY, the game computer's just cant handle it all.  fucking idiots
  
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Re: U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08
Reply #22 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 4:42pm
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Well I'm sure they've got it all figured out and can confidently declare lag solved.
  

Grab life by the pussy.
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Re: U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08
Reply #23 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 4:50pm
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Shunned wrote on Apr 6th, 2021 at 4:33pm:
All because suddenly, SUDDENLY, the game computer's just cant handle it all.  fucking idiots


Did you also enjoy how their data was from in-house simulations of 'standard raid groups'
  
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Re: U49 Preview 2: 4/06-4/08
Reply #24 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 5:03pm
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Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz wrote on Apr 6th, 2021 at 4:10pm:
Since my offhand doublestrike at cap on my tempest was around 47% to a mainhand doublestrike of 81%, this new offhand doublestrike cap of 50% of current doublestrike is going to be just another nerf to TWFs.

Honestly, I’m surprised that pudgy, greasy weeble wobble didn’t try to kill off Dance of Death again.


it seems you're missing some doublestrike sources from somewhere.
  

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