Did you see any of the sort of hostility towards the player base that is rampant on the forums?

I know you said people like Sev and Jerry are nice and polite in person(as is the social contract), but on the official forums the devs seem openly hostile towards the player base, continually making decisions and taking actions that actively hurt us.

Rothgar wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2024 at 3:11pm:


I can promise you that touched more than just the support line.

noamineo wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2024 at 5:28pm:


I thought about this, and I realized my interactions with Jerry, Sev, and the other game team members were completely unrelated to DDO. Never once did I talk shop with them ("Hey Jerry, roll any good Artificers lately?" Like I know what I'm talking about.) At minimum our pleasantries were about games that our studio didn't make, though I'm sure we discussed Arkham's Origins and Knight when those respectfully came out.

There was a dev that I got on good with, who may still be at SSG today. I think his forum handle was or is Steelstar. I always felt bad for him after reading his forum posts and the responses he'd get, because I had that personal connection to him. Of course, as it was alluded to earlier, anyone who interfaces with the player base effectively becomes not just the voice of the product, but also the communal punching bag.

Shortly before the SSG genesis, there was an intern who was a hardcore DDO player, who essentially landed their dream job of working at Turbine. Their internship ended just before the studio transition, but they were one of SSG's first official hires. This eager beaver decided to start a forum thread asking for player feedback and suggestions, basically creating a beacon where they would be the pipeline between the player base and the game team. I didn't read too much of that thread, so I don't know if and when it crashed and blew up in their face. When I first saw it though, I thought to myself, "Why? Why subject yourself to this? You know how DDO players treat Jerry and any other dev who interfaces with them." If it worked out for them, and if rational discourse occurred, and if some meaningful changes actually happened in the game as a result that benefit you all, then great.

To bring it back and to attempt to directly answer your question, I would argue that any hostility from the game team towards the player base was a result of regular interactions with them. I sure had a negative perception of the player base just from dealing with support tickets 40+ hours a week, but 95% of those tickets had their own negative aura surrounding them; either a problem that couldn't be fixed, or an interaction that could start neutral at minimum and quickly fall apart. I was grateful for the smaller percentage of tickets that either had positive outcomes, or where the interaction was as pleasant as it could be.

Rothgar wrote on Dec 4^th, 2024 at 12:37pm:

This was Lynnabel.

Lynnabel had the ability to interface with the DDO community like no other before them or after them (so far).

They were incredibly responsive for a very long time and they were appreciated by the community because,

a) they didn't treat community members like they were stupid
b) they understood their own game (unlike some Devs who it's quite clear they really don't play DDO that much)
c) they had the ability to handle certain "problematic" posters. Usually Lynnabel ignored them, but every once in a while they replied to the problem children anyway but in a way that disarmed them. Lynnabel was not the type to let their ego get in the way and get all butthurt about certain things that were said about them (or SSG) on the forums. One could say they were likely THE most professional intern/dev in the history of SSG (and likely Turbine, too).

Lynnabel used to come to the Vault, too. I haven't seen them recently, but their handle here was Salias. We all knew that because they identified themself as Lynnabel on the DDO Forums and from the way they posted here, we had no doubt of that.

Later, of course, they stopped actually posting here, we guess because of some directive from Sev or Cordo.

Anyway, while the DDO Forums can be a bit toxic at times, if the Devs got too buthurt and stopped posting there, it was THEIR fault for being too thin-skinned or not emotionally developed enough to handle interacting with so many different kinds of people.  They need to get over it.

Steelstar got shit, because Steelstar was bad at math and design, and insisted that he was correct, regardless.

Inquisitive had 40 hours of math balancing, you know, and that was before being nerfed about half a dozen times and still being in the upper echelons of builds.

It's hard to respect that much ego, and that little ability.

Rothgar wrote on Dec 4^th, 2024 at 12:36pm:


If the devs spent half as much time playing DDO as they did other games, the game would probably have been a thousand times better.

I know I keep harping on WoW(which I hate), but you could always tell what classes the devs were playing because those ones were always heavily favored. DDO its pretty obvious only new $$$ classes are "favored" to sell them, and then everything gets nerfed into the fucking dirt.

Bobbicus wrote on Dec 4^th, 2024 at 3:53pm:

With the utmost of respect, I hope they weren't fired. Through some searching, I see they left the company within the past year, so I hope it was on their terms (and it sounds like it was.) There are definitely worse things to lose a job over, and we all know how volatile the games industry is; it's one of many reasons why I left it altogether. There are certainly folks at Turbine and WB with whom I worked where I wouldn't in all good conscious say or have ever said to them, "I wish you well." Lynnabel, however, has my best regards and wishes towards the next chapter in their journey, as cliché as that sounds.

noamineo wrote on Dec 4^th, 2024 at 4:15pm:

I was always under the potentially misguided belief that new systems were being built on top of an archaic architecture, from both gameplay and technical standpoints, and therefore new additions would break existing features. DDO was "old" when I was providing support for it, and we (the CS team) collectively felt like it was buckling under its own weight. I can't imagine what it's like now that the game is legally old enough to vote.

Although, it's apparent that communication was, is, and will probably always be garbage. I was a proponent of improved communication at least between teams within the studio, just so the CS team would be aware of what was going on. If you think it sucks being a player and not being kept in the loop on updates and changes, imagine being a support agent and facing that same conundrum. So often in tickets did I want to respond to "You're a GM, you're supposed to know this" with "Nobody tells me shit around here."

Quote:

It's insane to think that WoW, DDO, and LOTRO are among the "elder statesmen" of online gaming. I'm still amazed to this day that DDO (and LOTRO) are still going, truth be told. I'm sure you are too.

Rothgar wrote on Dec 4^th, 2024 at 7:21pm:


That is exactly correct. DDO added some technical debt when they got a bunch of contractors for their first expansion, and they kept layering on top of what the contractors did as they went forward.

When they went to Warner Brothers, they quickly lost all of their old guard, leaving two of the first expansion contractors as the oldest programmers of the lot, who then took to blaming the old old guard for all of the game's problems.

Modern DDO has one ancient level designer and one ancient backend guy brought back from after they went indie, but the damage is done and it's crisis mode now.

Oh, and you may be pleased to know that one of the DDO ancients is now the lead designer for Stellaris.

Rothgar wrote on Dec 4^th, 2024 at 12:36pm:

This is awesome. Video games? A-ok. Porn? A-ok.

BUT DON'T YOU DARE VISIT THE VAULT

Strake wrote on Dec 4^th, 2024 at 11:05pm:


You had damn well better put this in the News gag randomizer in the top left.

Rothgar wrote on Dec 4^th, 2024 at 12:38pm:


Damn, unless literally 95% of all remaining GMS were just straight up not doing their job and lazing around idk how it could it be true.

Are you saying Cordo lied to us about this bug? LMAO