This build is made to take advantage of the base damage of the new shuriken, combined with high melee power from prowess and VKF to use melee power instead of ranged. It uses LD for the crit range and multiplier, along with for blizt. The result is absolutely atrocious DPS, rivaling that of a shintao monk, but at range.

Pure 20 Monk
Lawful Neutral
Elf

Starting Stats

Str - 11
Dex- 20
Con- 12
Int- 16
Wis- 9
Cha- 8

Skils
Hide
UMD
Balance
Concentration
Heal
Listen
Spot
Search
1 rank Tumble
9 ranks Spellcraft

Feats

Level 1   : Point Blank Shot
Level 1(M):Shuriken Expertise
Level 2(M): Power Attack
Level 3   : Sneak of Shadows
Level 6   : Precise Shot
Level 6(M):10K Stars
Level 9   : Rapid Shot
Level 12 : Improved Critical
Level 15 : Improved Precise Shot
Level 18 : Completionist
Level 21 : Overwhelming Critical
Level 24 : Improved Martial Arts
Level 26 : Epic Skill Focus Hide
Level 27 : Blinding Speed
Level 28 : Doubleshot
Level 29 : Harbringer of Chaos
Level 30 : Combat Archery
Level 30 : Scion of the Ethereal Plane

Enhancements

Elf

Elven Accuracy 3/3
Elven Dex 2/2

Ninja Spy

Basic Ninja Training
Advanced Ninja Training
Shadow Veil
Diversion
Ninja Master
Impending Doom
Stealthy 3/3
Sneak Attack Training 4/4
Acrobatic 3/3
Poison Exploit
Agility 3/3
Poisoned Soul
Sting of the Ninja
Dexterity 2/2
Wave of Despair
No Mercy 3/3
Deadly Striker

Henshin Mystic

Riddle of Fire
Ki Bolt
Sounding Staff
Incinerating Wave
Henshin Staff Training 2/2
Negotiator 3/3
Way of the Patient Tortoise
Contemplation 3/3
Embrace the Void 3/3
Dexterity 2/2
Focus

Vistani Knife Fighter

Knife Expertise
Undead Hunter
Mist Stalker I
Acrobatic 1/3
Weapon Versatility

Harper Agent

Agent of Good
Harper Enchantment
Traveler's Toughness 2/3
Know the Angles 3/3

Epic Destiny

Legendary Dreadnought

Extra Action Boost 3/3
Con 1/1
Improved Power Attack
Power Boost 3/3
Haste Boost 3/3
Critical Damage 3/3
Advancing Blows
Devastating Critical
Pulverizer
Master's Blizt Resistance

Gear

TBH still working it out completely

Damage Screenshot (still missing a lot of gear)

https://imgur.com/a/ktLut

Good build. It's like the prowess monks, very boosts hungry. Same as the fusilade builds as well which are boost dependant. You could also do the same with fusilade builds as it is an action boost for prowess. mech tier 5, be tier 4, henshin core 3, knife fighter for weapon versatility and using great xbow. They should be coming in at around low 20s on red named kobold tests. In LD and that is impressive considering it's a xbow build. Use rapid shot before you 10k for the extra 20 dshot. Even easier on the fusilade builds as it doesnt require getting back into stance.

The monk builds with prowess should also be using rapid attack at the cost of 3 ap from henshin. Symb and marty are spending 14 ap in hen and should just drop it to 11 and get that 20 dstrike. I tried explaining this to marty, but something seemed lost in translation. my diplomacy skills are probably lacking. 

Rubbinns wrote on Dec 26^th, 2017 at 8:19am:

Good build. It's like the prowess monks, very boosts hungry. Same as the fusilade builds as well which are boost dependant. You could also do the same with fusilade builds as it is an action boost for prowess. mech tier 5, be tier 4, henshin core 3, knife fighter for weapon versatility and using great xbow. They should be coming in at around low 20s on red named kobold tests. In LD and that is impressive considering it's a xbow build. Use rapid shot before you 10k for the extra 20 dshot. Even easier on the fusilade builds as it doesnt require getting back into stance. The monk builds with prowess should also be using rapid attack at the cost of 3 ap from henshin. Symb and marty are spending 14 ap in hen and should just drop it to 11 and get that 20 dstrike. I tried explaining this to marty, but something seemed lost in translation. my diplomacy skills are probably lacking.

you need to actually respond to me on discord ;) ill pass along the message to symbiiont. you can use rapid shot/attack without a dagger? and it puts 10k on a cooldown it says?

Sergod wrote on Dec 26^th, 2017 at 10:24am:

you need to actually respond to me on discord ;) ill pass along the message to symbiiont. you can use rapid shot/attack without a dagger? and it puts 10k on a cooldown it says?

hah. havent logged in on discord since your invite. will do, my bad.

you need a dagger. it uncenters you. but macro dagger/rapid/wraps/stance. 2 seconds to complete, so is 8 seconds of 20 dstrike every 10 seconds. they could try quick strike in henshin, but im not sure that buff stays and works without having qstaff always on. i know it wont work in wolf/tree form. rapid attack does, though. for now, at least ;p

10K+rapid throw use is tricky. you have to rapid throw before 10k. only. used this way it does not put 10k on cooldown. same macro as above, but use throwing dagger. do not rapid throw while 10k is on. it will delete the 10k buff off your buff bar. rapid throw+ manyshot can be used in any which way you like. it does not delete the buff and does not put it on cooldown.

I tested weapon versatility before last hotfix and it didn't work for me, wasn't changing ranged for melee power...

JK_Seren wrote on Dec 26^th, 2017 at 6:42pm:

I tested weapon versatility before last hotfix and it didn't work for me, wasn't changing ranged for melee power...

its working.

Rubbinns wrote on Dec 26^th, 2017 at 12:08pm:

hah. havent logged in on discord since your invite. will do, my bad. you need a dagger. it uncenters you. but macro dagger/rapid/wraps/stance. 2 seconds to complete, so is 8 seconds of 20 dstrike every 10 seconds. they could try quick strike in henshin, but im not sure that buff stays and works without having qstaff always on. i know it wont work in wolf/tree form. rapid attack does, though. for now, at least ;p 10K+rapid throw use is tricky. you have to rapid throw before 10k. only. used this way it does not put 10k on cooldown. same macro as above, but use throwing dagger. do not rapid throw while 10k is on. it will delete the 10k buff off your buff bar. rapid throw+ manyshot can be used in any which way you like. it does not delete the buff and does not put it on cooldown.

this is awesome news for throwers

upated for more dps

Rubbinns wrote on Dec 26^th, 2017 at 8:19am:

Good build. It's like the prowess monks, very boosts hungry. Same as the fusilade builds as well which are boost dependant. You could also do the same with fusilade builds as it is an action boost for prowess. mech tier 5, be tier 4, henshin core 3, knife fighter for weapon versatility and using great xbow. They should be coming in at around low 20s on red named kobold tests. In LD and that is impressive considering it's a xbow build. Use rapid shot before you 10k for the extra 20 dshot. Even easier on the fusilade builds as it doesnt require getting back into stance. The monk builds with prowess should also be using rapid attack at the cost of 3 ap from henshin. Symb and marty are spending 14 ap in hen and should just drop it to 11 and get that 20 dstrike. I tried explaining this to marty, but something seemed lost in translation. my diplomacy skills are probably lacking.

I think 8f/8m/6r in LD might be in play again, especially with Vistani boosts, and and the Action Boost based bonuses. Also, maybe 12 Fighter 8 Monk. Not sure I'll ever really play DDO again, but that's what I would try if I did. Obviously this pure monk is very good too.

the pure monk sergod has is better dps than the standard shuris. sustained through ld and attack/mp boosts so it doesnt really need to shrine to abuse prowess set. i would tr into it, but im too lazy, so...

This build is flawed by line 3.. one cannot simply be an Elven Monk.. its atrocious.. kill it with fire!!

harharharhar wrote on Dec 28^th, 2017 at 1:37pm:

I think 8f/8m/6r in LD might be in play again, especially with Vistani boosts, and and the Action Boost based bonuses. Also, maybe 12 Fighter 8 Monk. Not sure I'll ever really play DDO again, but that's what I would try if I did. Obviously this pure monk is very good too.

Pure beats the multiclasses for DPS. There's several sources of crit range and multiplier on pure, and these are king at these base damage and MP levels, and scale retardedly well. Pure monk does range, and multiplier, best. There's a lot of synergies currently that pure monk takes the most advantage of. It also gets all of the 10k double shots. The run speed and abundant step  are also beyond clutch. I looked at all the different builds and pure is king. Y'all can play your 8/6/6 builds. They're cute. I'll continue to crush them in DPS ;)

Vendui wrote on Dec 28^th, 2017 at 2:58pm:

This build is flawed by line 3.. one cannot simply be an Elven Monk.. its atrocious.. kill it with fire!!

Increased SA and PBS range. I find elf to be better than halfling.

Sergod wrote on Dec 28^th, 2017 at 4:28pm:

Pure beats the multiclasses for DPS. There's several crit range and multiplier are king at these base damage and MP levels, and scale retardedly well. Pure monk does range, and multiplier, best. There's a lot of synergies currently that pure monk takes the most advantage of. It also gets all of the 10k double shots. The run speed and abundant step  are also beyond clutch. I looked at all the different builds and pure is king. Y'all can play your 8/6/6 builds. They're cute. I'll continue to crush them in DPS ;)

this build is based on theorycrafting and ideas from at least 5 different people with published shuri builds in this forum for the last 3 months or so that release notes have been available (Rubbins, Ulysses, 5 Foot, Digimonk, myself). If I'm not mistaken, last month you came in here looking for a pure build because you didn't know how to Shuri.


Sergod wrote on Dec 1^st, 2017 at 10:56am:

have an alt on a secondary account thats pure monk...gonna lr to thrower but is human. what extra feat would you take?

Sergod wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2017 at 11:10am:

its a random alt on alt acct thats alrdy pure monk. idc about optimal.

You are very welcome, enjoy the build (while it lasts, nerfage is inevitable in the Vistani clickies at least, maybe other areas as well like MP vs RP using a shuriken). If there's anything the devs have basically confirmed recently, it's that they have it out for throwers (even though they don't actually even know how to nerf things very well).

Sergod wrote on Dec 28^th, 2017 at 4:29pm:

Increased SA and PBS range. I find elf to be better than halfling.

elf is better than halfing if pure because of the crit threat available in Ninja spy.

harharharhar wrote on Dec 28^th, 2017 at 5:04pm:

this build is based on theorycrafting and ideas from at least 5 different people with published shuri builds in this forum for the last 3 months or so that release notes have been available (Rubbins, Ulysses, 5 Foot, Digimonk, myself). If I'm not mistaken, last month you came in here looking for a pure build because you didn't know how to Shuri. You are very welcome, enjoy the build (while it lasts, nerfage is inevitable in the Vistani clickies at least, maybe other areas as well like MP vs RP using a shuriken). If there's anything the devs have basically confirmed recently, it's that they have it out for throwers (even though they don't actually even know how to nerf things very well).

Cool story bro. Some of us are able to learn things in this game, and adapt to them quickly. Sorry that it takes you months to do what takes me weeks. Being a retard is hard, huh? I play this game, not theory craft.

Sergod wrote on Dec 28^th, 2017 at 6:29pm:

Cool story bro. Some of us are able to learn things in this game, and adapt to them quickly. Sorry that it takes you months to do what takes me weeks. Being a retard is hard, huh? I play this game, not theory craft.

Well this just speaks for itself I don't even need to reply. You seem like a really cool person.

harharharhar wrote on Dec 28^th, 2017 at 5:04pm:

this build is based on theorycrafting and ideas from at least 5 different people with published shuri builds in this forum for the last 3 months or so that release notes have been available (Rubbins, Ulysses, 5 Foot, Digimonk, myself).

harharharhar wrote on Dec 28^th, 2017 at 7:49pm:

Well this just speaks for itself I don't even need to reply. You seem like a really cool person.

You still going on about how you think you invented Shuricannons? An Ola was doing that shit while you were still a contemplation in your daddies mind. Ass?, Mouth?, Down the crack to become a browned stain upon the bedsheets? Alas, he chose to pull out a second too late. Stop feeding us "your" repurposed build, that you never seem to adjust to fit the times. Still running around thinking "your" Fury Stars are the best dps a Shuri can attain.

Vendui wrote on Dec 28^th, 2017 at 8:31pm:

You still going on about how you think you invented Shuricannons? An Ola was doing that shit while you were still a contemplation in your daddies mind. Ass?, Mouth?, Down the crack to become a browned stain upon the bedsheets? Alas, he chose to pull out a second too late. Stop feeding us "your" repurposed build, that you never seem to adjust to fit the times. Still running around thinking "your" Fury Stars are the best dps a Shuri can attain.

i think harharhar just got shrekt

Vendui wrote on Dec 28^th, 2017 at 8:31pm:

You still going on about how you think you invented Shuricannons? An Ola was doing that shit while you were still a contemplation in your daddies mind. Ass?, Mouth?, Down the crack to become a browned stain upon the bedsheets? Alas, he chose to pull out a second too late. Stop feeding us "your" repurposed build, that you never seem to adjust to fit the times. Still running around thinking "your" Fury Stars are the best dps a Shuri can attain.

nope, I think this build is really really strong, I already said that. One of the first comments in the thread actually.

But previous to now LD shuri builds were quite a bit lower DPS, but obviously this has changed with nerfs and also now the ability to abuse Melee Power and the new set. Except for very long quests, which aren't really even meta right now from what I can tell, the burst of a fury build + manyshot is still probably a better build for getting things done. Everything that is bringing up this pure 20 build in LD is also buffing Fury builds (more doubleshot sources, MP to missile damage, +75 MP boost from set, Henshin core MP, Vistani, etc).

Like the difference between 8/6/6 and 14/6 favoring the higher doubleshot of the 14/6 due to 10k pre-u37, the build that can get the most doubleshot is likely going to be the winner (and/or significantly higher dex up to 100). That, and the fact that pure monk can get 1 more crit threat, up to 5 SA dice, 30-60% more doubleshot during 10k. Of course, the lack of any active attacks also means no option to take Fury when appropriate versus an easy switch between LD and Fury as needed with a split build. Also, the doubleshot may now be eclipsed in the damage equation by base damage and MP, given Dex is so high and there's no consideration for regen'ing Adrenalines (which skew the damage quickly) when you run in LD.

I'm working on an updated DPS spreadsheet for 8/6/6, 14/6, 12/8, and pure 20 right now. Obviously calcs in a spreadsheet are only as good as averages, but they're a start. 5 Foot comes up with these calcs way faster than I do I should just rip his off but I"m trying something new anyway.

I don't have any real dog in the fight at this point, I'm not even playing. If pure 20 is clearly superior up against updated versions of the multiclasses, so be it. Lord knows Turbine has been trying to push pure Monks up for a while, they haven't nerfed them like they have AA for splits. If anything, they're all probably more or less equal at this point, if not a slight advantage toward being pure in LD simply due to the lack of burst damage and favoring not having active attacks in exchange for doubleshot during 10k.

Its actually sad the amount of a laughing stock you are harharhahr. The amount of tells/messages I am getting loling at you is way too damn high.

Sergod wrote on Dec 28^th, 2017 at 11:36pm:

Its actually sad the amount of a laughing stock you are harharhahr. The amount of tells/messages I am getting loling at you is way too damn high.

You're a super cool guy with lots of super cool friends I bet.

So 8m/6f/6r doesn't look like too good in a match up in LD
12/8 looks a bit more even, probably is not far behind in DPS even in LD. Based on AB usage, might pull ahead in longer quests. Also the 30% doubleshot loss from Monk levels is almost made up by the 11 Dex gained from power surge and helf Dex boost. 
14/6 like 12/8 looks decently matched, but has abundant step.

https://preview.ibb.co/kXfThG/big.jpg
img safe free image host

Also none of these builds take sting of the ninja or count the vorpal from Ninja Spy, but those are sort of whatever. I standby my earlier assumption that pure 20 Monk as you have laid out in this build is better in LD than the multi splits if you don't think the active attacks and increased SA damage uptime is valuable, or extra AB will be make a difference.

I discount crit threat and multi a bit in LD builds because for one thing so much damage is from Damage procs and SA combined with the fact that active attacks also increase crit profile and SA damage on the other builds when used regularly. Also, all splits can use Manyshot 

I think your pure build compares extremely favorably to any other thrower build in LD.

harharharhar wrote on Dec 29^th, 2017 at 12:36am:

Waaaaah.... "My" Builds Are Better.... Waaaaah

ftfy

harharharhar wrote on Dec 29^th, 2017 at 12:36am:

You're a super cool guy with lots of super cool friends I bet. So 8m/6f/6r doesn't look like too good in a match up in LD 12/8 looks a bit more even, probably is not far behind in DPS even in LD. Based on AB usage, might pull ahead in longer quests. Also the 30% doubleshot loss from Monk levels is almost made up by the 11 Dex gained from power surge and helf Dex boost.  14/6 like 12/8 looks decently matched, but has abundant step. https://preview.ibb.co/kXfThG/big.jpg img safe free image host Also none of these builds take sting of the ninja or count the vorpal from Ninja Spy, but those are sort of whatever. I standby my earlier assumption that pure 20 Monk as you have laid out in this build is better in LD than the multi splits if you don't think the active attacks and increased SA damage uptime is valuable, or extra AB will be make a difference. I discount crit threat and multi a bit in LD builds because for one thing so much damage is from Damage procs and SA combined with the fact that active attacks also increase crit profile and SA damage on the other builds when used regularly. Also, all splits can use Manyshot  I think your pure build compares extremely favorably to any other thrower build in LD.

"so much damage is from procs" uh wut? majority of damage is from base damage, except in a raid boss burn environment, and there id still say 1/3-1/2 is base damage. Dude you are completely clueless to this game, as you don't actually play it. Your theory crafting is cool and all, but don't speak it as gospel when you don't play, and don't act like its some super special thing that takes months of math, and only a select few can do it. I've been building top characters, and playing this game at a level that you cant since before you were a froob kid. Go play some more Destiny now.

Also in regards to active attacks.. They are once a second. What about all the other attacks that aren't getting crit profile/multiplier now? If you discount crit profile and multiplier, then you truly have no clue as to how to play this game.

I have a shuri mule that I use to play before u23.
Drow 12/6/2 wiz/monk/pal.

Last night I did ToEE EH @Lv21,not a easy run but I was able to complete.

Can you guys give some ideas to relocate AP's and be more efficient?

Wish I was not that lazy to TR into pure monk (Im already on TR train with my main).

GrizzlyBear wrote on Dec 29^th, 2017 at 8:39am:

I have a shuri mule that I use to play before u23. Drow 12/6/2 wiz/monk/pal. Last night I did ToEE EH @Lv21,not a easy run but I was able to complete. Can you guys give some ideas to relocate AP's and be more efficient? Wish I was not that lazy to TR into pure monk (Im already on TR train with my main).

TR. lol

Sergod wrote on Dec 25^th, 2017 at 11:24pm:

Level 9   : Rapid Shot

Probably a minor detail but isn't Quick Draw > Rapid Shot on it's own or shouldn't it be taken first?

I'm thinking that QD was assumed with 11 AP's in VKF but now with only the current 7 AP's, it's no longer auto-granted so should be taken as a feat?

Thanks!

Sergod wrote on Dec 29^th, 2017 at 11:28am:

TR. lol

Oh Lord.

My laziness tickles.

Sergod wrote on Dec 29^th, 2017 at 3:42am:

"so much damage is from procs" uh wut? majority of damage is from base damage, except in a raid boss burn environment, and there id still say 1/3-1/2 is base damage. Dude you are completely clueless to this game, as you don't actually play it. Your theory crafting is cool and all, but don't speak it as gospel when you don't play, and don't act like its some super special thing that takes months of math, and only a select few can do it. I've been building top characters, and playing this game at a level that you cant since before you were a froob kid. Go play some more Destiny now. Also in regards to active attacks.. They are once a second. What about all the other attacks that aren't getting crit profile/multiplier now? If you discount crit profile and multiplier, then you truly have no clue as to how to play this game.

You're really defensive for no reason. I'm just looking at multiclass splits comparably to see how they shake out. You need to take like 100 chill pills.

Regarding crit threat and multi, you are correct that 1/2 to 1/3 of the damage of these builds is physical and crittable. So when you have a crit modifier of x3, the difference between 1 crit threat and 2 crit threat for a shuriken is:


either (12f/8m) with IC Thrown and +1 Competence Threat
1x0 + 2-17x1 + 18x3 +19-20x5 =
80% Base Damage +
5%x3 Base Damage + 25 Seeker +
10%x5 Base Damage (OC and LD) + 25 Seeker damage.

If Base Damage is 120 on average, that means each hit does:
(120*.8)+((145*3)*.05)+((145*5)*.1) = 190.25 damage with crits on average per missile. Feel free to adjust the base number however you like.

or (20 Monk)
1x0 + 2-16x1 + 17-18x3 +19-20x5 =
75% Base Damage +
10%x3 Base Damage + 25 Seeker +
10%x5 Base Damage (OC and LD) + 25 Seeker damage.

If Base Damage is 120 on average, that means each hit does:
(120*.75)+((145*3)*.1)+((145*5)*.1) = 206 damage with crits on average per missile. Feel free to adjust the base number however you like.

1 Crit threat range makes a 16 dps/190dps = 8.4% increase in physical damage per missile. if physical damage is 50% of damage per missile (very high end and probably means low SA damage and MP) then this is a 4.2% increase in damage. If physical damage with more like 33% of total damage per missile, then this is .33*.084=~2.8% increase in damage. This is only true if both builds have exactly the same base damage. The 12/8 build has 11 more boosted dex and something like 19 more base damage and 20 additional Melee Power along with active attacks. This is why I say there are still multiclass builds that can hang with this pure in LD. Yours will have better movement and abundant step though which a lot of people really like. Also, yours has significantly higher SA dice (up to +4 over 12/8 I think and depending on AP choices), which is why I say they actually are not far apart on damage, it's because they aren't.

I'm not criticizing you or your build by trying to elucidate these numbers. I'm just showing you how to compare this stuff by the numbers. I can't quantify how well or poorly you play, your party members play, your lag, or your items. People running shuriken builds were often terrible players, and no build could really help them.

And for the record on Khyber my main was Amputation. Feel free to ask around and see how people felt about how I played. I was in all of the raid channels and consistently contributed to parties composed of the best players on the server off and on for 10 years.

You may not like me or how I post about things but don't confuse that with me as a player. I played DDO very hard.

GrizzlyBear wrote on Dec 29^th, 2017 at 12:37pm:

Oh Lord. My laziness tickles.

Also you should 100% TR, there is no saving a 12 Wizard Thrower. There might have been if it was a Terror build and that still worked but those days are gone.

ChewyOoeyGoOey wrote on Dec 29^th, 2017 at 12:35pm:

Probably a minor detail but isn't Quick Draw > Rapid Shot on it's own or shouldn't it be taken first? I'm thinking that QD was assumed with 11 AP's in VKF but now with only the current 7 AP's, it's no longer auto-granted so should be taken as a feat? Thanks!

QD is free from henshin cores.

harharharhar wrote on Dec 29^th, 2017 at 1:21pm:

You're really defensive for no reason. I'm just looking at multiclass splits comparably to see how they shake out. You need to take like 100 chill pills. Regarding crit threat and multi, you are correct that 1/2 to 1/3 of the damage of these builds is physical and crittable. So when you have a crit modifier of x3, the difference between 1 crit threat and 2 crit threat for a shuriken is: either (12f/8m) with IC Thrown and +1 Competence Threat 1x0 + 2-17x1 + 18x3 +19-20x5 = 80% Base Damage + 5%x3 Base Damage + 25 Seeker + 10%x5 Base Damage (OC and LD) + 25 Seeker damage. If Base Damage is 120 on average, that means each hit does: (120*.8)+((145*3)*.05)+((145*5)*.1) = 190.25 damage with crits on average per missile. Feel free to adjust the base number however you like. or (20 Monk) 1x0 + 2-16x1 + 17-18x3 +19-20x5 = 75% Base Damage + 10%x3 Base Damage + 25 Seeker + 10%x5 Base Damage (OC and LD) + 25 Seeker damage. If Base Damage is 120 on average, that means each hit does: (120*.75)+((145*3)*.1)+((145*5)*.1) = 206 damage with crits on average per missile. Feel free to adjust the base number however you like. 1 Crit threat range makes a 16 dps/190dps = 8.4% increase in physical damage per missile. if physical damage is 50% of damage per missile (very high end and probably means low SA damage and MP) then this is a 4.2% increase in damage. If physical damage with more like 33% of total damage per missile, then this is .33*.084=~2.8% increase in damage. This is only true if both builds have exactly the same base damage. The 12/8 build has 11 more boosted dex and something like 19 more base damage and 20 additional Melee Power along with active attacks. This is why I say there are still multiclass builds that can hang with this pure in LD. Yours will have better movement and abundant step though which a lot of people really like. Also, yours has significantly higher SA dice (up to +4 over 12/8 I think and depending on AP choices), which is why I say they actually are not far apart on damage, it's because they aren't. I'm not criticizing you or your build by trying to elucidate these numbers. I'm just showing you how to compare this stuff by the numbers. I can't quantify how well or poorly you play, your party members play, your lag, or your items. People running shuriken builds were often terrible players, and no build could really help them. And for the record on Khyber my main was Amputation. Feel free to ask around and see how people felt about how I played. I was in all of the raid channels and consistently contributed to parties composed of the best players on the server off and on for 10 years. You may not like me or how I post about things but don't confuse that with me as a player. I played DDO very hard.

"Played"

Sergod wrote on Dec 29^th, 2017 at 3:59pm:

"Played"

::)

X = base damage, Y = number of critical units
Crit profile = x(19+y/19)
• 20 Monk w/pulverizer = 15-20 x3 (19-20 x6), 18 Critical Units; x(19+18/19) = x(1.947), not counting seeker
• 8 Fighter 8 Monk 6 Ranger? (wtf) = 17-20 x3 (19-20 x6), 14 Critical Units; x(19+14/19) = x(1.737), not counting seeker
(1.947)/(1.737) = 12.01% more damage from critical profile, not counting seeker.

You're making these multiclasses to try to do what 20 monk does better, and sacrificing a lot to do it.

Sergod wrote on Dec 29^th, 2017 at 4:23pm:

X = base damage, Y = number of critical units Crit profile = x(19+y/19) • 20 Monk w/pulverizer = 15-20 x3 (19-20 x6), 18 Critical Units; x(19+18/19) = x(1.947), not counting seeker • 8 Fighter 8 Monk 6 Ranger? (wtf) = 17-20 x3 (19-20 x6), 14 Critical Units; x(19+14/19) = x(1.737), not counting seeker (1.947)/(1.737) = 12.01% more damage from critical profile, not counting seeker.

Yeah I purposefully chose to compare the 12f/8m because it's a better build for LD than the 8/6/6 (higher dex, base damage and MP than the 8/6/6 or the 20).

move slower, lose imp evasion, less dodge, less dshot, and lose 10 sneak dice
and no ab step....all to attempt to do the same thing worse.

it's magic

Sergod wrote on Dec 29^th, 2017 at 4:58pm:

move slower, lose imp evasion, less dodge, less dshot, and lose 10 sneak dice and no ab step....all to attempt to do the same thing worse.

With Capstone you get 9 SA dice, versus a 12/8 getting only 1-3. Not sure where you get 10 SA dice from as a pure monk. If you skip Helf for Halfling you can get another 2 making the difference 6 SA halfling nets you +1 W w/ Sneak Attack which is another 4.5 damage which is crittable and worth the equivalent of almost 2 SA dice DPS-wise. So it's really a difference of about 4 SA dice. Which is not insignificant.

But you trade off 20 MP and and a 15-19 base damage which is large, plus that 11 Dex with worth 22% doubleshot for missile proc purposes so it's only about 8% lower.

Plus Active Attacks (that scale with MP) and 8 con from surging, and more action boosts. All I'm saying is that it's not a huge trade off (though Movement speed is definitely part of the trade off).

So you trade off that movement speed and a small amount of damage in LD for the ability to use Fury as a destiny where you want big burst damage as appropriate, as well as having more action boosts for longer fights/quests without shrines.

Honestly if I was gonna come back and play, this 20 monk would be the first build I tried since it's been so long since I did a pure build.

Without sniper shot tho, how are you keeping SA damage up all the time? Do you have double Imp Dec procs?

harharharhar wrote on Dec 29^th, 2017 at 5:10pm:

Which is not insignificant.

Double Negative much? Remove not from the equation, and fix the word significant/insignificant to fit.. Stop trying to sound smart, you really are not


harharharhar wrote on Dec 29^th, 2017 at 5:10pm:

use Fury as a destiny

Get the fuck over your fury bullshit already, its not top tier, it hasn't been top tier, move the fuck along already...

Vendui wrote on Dec 29^th, 2017 at 5:15pm:

Double Negative much? Remove not from the equation, and fix the word significant/insignificant to fit.. Stop trying to sound smart, you really are not Get the fuck over your fury bullshit already, its not top tier, it hasn't been top tier, move the fuck along already...

This LD fad will last for a month or so until people have gear maxxed out again and then they will go back to Fury for speed runs.

harharharhar wrote on Dec 29^th, 2017 at 5:10pm:

Not sure where you get 10 SA dice from as a pure monk.

10 from spy cores 18 and 20, 4 from spy tier 1-4.

40 mp from shintao cores 1, 3, 6, 12. 5 from shintao focus.

+4 damage from spy poison tiers 1-4.

His screenshot is 1k on just the first number per shuri. it's disgusting. 

11 dex is worth 0 doubleshot. I sit at 100 dex in fire stance in LD on elf, and will on helf also, so im not sure what doubleshot difference from dex you reference. i understand you dont play the game so you dont understand the current meta though. yes i have improved deception, along with intim tank on bosses, and holds on trash. it seems like you not only dont understand the current meta, but also dont understand basic meta. LD is not a fad. I have been running LD since it came out. It is the best, and always has been. fury has always been a lazy mans way to do decent. it has never been top tier. youre trash kid go home.

Rubbinns wrote on Dec 29^th, 2017 at 6:53pm:

10 from spy cores 18 and 20, 4 from spy tier 1-4. 40 mp from shintao cores 1, 3, 6, 12. 5 from shintao focus. +4 damage from spy poison tiers 1-4. His screenshot is 1k on just the first number per shuri. it's disgusting.

9 SA dice in Ninja, and 5 TEMP dice for 20 seconds every three minutes. That isnt even sort of the same thing as 5 full time SA dice. Also I think you mean Henshin for the MP.

Yes the damage on this is very sick, no question.

Sergod wrote on Dec 29^th, 2017 at 6:55pm:

11 dex is worth 0 doubleshot. I sit at 100 dex in fire stance in LD on elf, and will on helf also, so im not sure what doubleshot difference from dex you reference. i understand you dont play the game so you dont understand the current meta though. yes i have improved deception, along with intim tank on bosses, and holds on trash. it seems like you not only dont understand the current meta, but also dont understand basic meta. LD is not a fad. I have been running LD since it came out. It is the best, and always has been. fury has always been a lazy mans way to do decent. it has never been top tier. youre trash kid go home.

I remember when I had my first beer, it won't always feel this strong.

harharharhar wrote on Dec 30^th, 2017 at 12:09am:

9 SA dice in Ninja, and 5 TEMP dice for 20 seconds every three minutes. That isnt even sort of the same thing as 5 full time SA dice. Also I think you mean Henshin for the MP. Yes the damage on this is very sick, no question.

Ola has an idea, instead of you just saying yours is overall better, why not show us actual in-game shots of you breaking, and maintaining, 1k+ BASE dmg per star. Consistently, since we know Sergod can hit 1k+ on every.. single.. star.. not just ones enhanced with Fury. If you cant do that, stop fucking posting here, cuz no one cares about your shit tier builds.

Vendui wrote on Dec 30^th, 2017 at 12:24am:

Ola has an idea, instead of you just saying yours is overall better, why not show us actual in-game shots of you breaking, and maintaining, 1k+ BASE dmg per star. Consistently, since we know Sergod can hit 1k+ on every.. single.. star.. not just ones enhanced with Fury. If you cant do that, stop fucking posting here, cuz no one cares about your shit tier builds.

With my gear finished I'm usually at 1400-1600 first number on baba now non crit. I've broken 20k crits on helpless mobs . I was 1 shotting mobs in R1 slavers.  This post right here summarizes my feels regarding this assfart perfectly.

are you guys all done sucking each other off yet?

harharharhar wrote on Dec 30^th, 2017 at 12:41pm:

are you guys all done sucking each other off yet?

You done sucking yet?

Sergod wrote on Dec 28^th, 2017 at 6:29pm:

Being a retard is hard, huh? I play this game, not theory craft.

That's why you took Power Attack over Precision, amirite?  ::)

5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 1^st, 2018 at 10:39am:

That's why you took Power Attack over Precision, amirite?  ::)

hehe. insert foot into mouth. no comment. PA out dpses precision in every situation currently.

5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 1^st, 2018 at 10:39am:

That's why you took Power Attack over Precision, amirite?  ::)

Improved Power attack in LD with the new Shuri is my guess

harharharhar wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2018 at 12:52am:

Improved Power attack in LD with the new Shuri is my guess

Yar.

You're saying you never miss on a 2?

Even if fort bypass is a non-issue (for now) I'm not trading 5% accuracy and 1 Con for 3 base damage.

5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2018 at 9:41am:

You're saying you never miss on a 2? Even if fort bypass is a non-issue (for now) I'm not trading 5% accuracy and 1 Con for 3 base damage.

195 to hit doesn't miss, no. I never see grazes.

Between elf and sneak attack, the bonuses to hit are absurd.

Sergod wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2018 at 12:11pm:

Between elf and sneak attack, the bonuses to hit are absurd.

So why not go halfling for another +w on sneak attacks, and a couple SA Dice along with Precision? Seems like a similar to hit number but higher damage.

You also benefit from vastly improved IPS line of sight on the smaller character model, which has always been a huge peeve for me but is what it is.

*I guess lack of available AP is one answer, but if you do have extra racial AP from racial PLs, then I think halfling is definitely the way to go to spend them. Rest of the elf tree is garbagio.

Half elf is best. I did elf because I needed an elf PL and to try out the build. Now that I'm racial completionist I am a half elf. You get more Dex than elf or halfling, and the same SA as halfling. You also get the increased range of elf.

have you played a halfling thrower versus half elf? The IPS line of site difference is significant in terms of what mobs you can hit in a line and at what distance.

Moreover, in halfling the 2 Dex, +1w while sneak attacking and SA Dice are relatively cheap (11ap). Helf has more extras (3rd Dex pt, Dex boost +3, 2 SA dice), but you don't really have the AP for it (16 AP for 2 SA Dice).

This is obviously pretty marginal at this point DPS wise, but honestly the biggest difference is the LoS for IPS which goes to halfling.

harharharhar wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2018 at 3:35pm:

have you played a halfling thrower versus half elf? The IPS line of site difference is significant in terms of what mobs you can hit in a line and at what distance. Moreover, in halfling the 2 Dex, +1w while sneak attacking and SA Dice are relatively cheap (11ap). Helf has more extras (3rd Dex pt, Dex boost +3, 2 SA dice), but you don't really have the AP for it (16 AP for 2 SA Dice). This is obviously pretty marginal at this point DPS wise, but honestly the biggest difference is the LoS for IPS which goes to halfling.

+1W while sneaking you mean?

Also sneak attack has same AP cost for SA.

Sergod wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2018 at 5:17pm:

Also sneak attack has same AP cost for SA.

To pick up both Sneak dice in HElf, you need to spend a minimum of 15 points, + 1 point into it, so 16 points for 2 Sneak Dice

Hafling can aquire these same 2 Sneak Dice for 11 points, or gain a third dice for 16 points.

They are also the shortest race, thereby improving the functionality of IPS immensely. I wouldn't Throw/Bow on any other race, unless it was MILES better dps, and it sadly is not any better based on Race Alone for dmg, for this very reason. When it comes to IPS, Size DOES matter, its a very shitty truth to the game.. but a truth none-the-less.

Sergod wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2018 at 5:17pm:

Also sneak attack has same AP cost for SA.

Same cost for the SA dice, different cost for requirements to get the SA dice.

for the +1w I'm talking about:
"Stealthy: +1/+2/+3 Hide and Move Silently. Rank 3: Throw attacks you perform while sneaking deal +1[W] damage."

I assume that means during any attack that counts as a sneak attack, and not specifically from stealth. I have never tested this particular enhancement as 1w was so trivial before the new shuriken was released

Vendui wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2018 at 6:04pm:

To pick up both Sneak dice in HElf, you need to spend a minimum of 15 points, + 1 point into it, so 16 points for 2 Sneak Dice Hafling can aquire these same 2 Sneak Dice for 11 points, or gain a third dice for 16 points. They are also the shortest race, thereby improving the functionality of IPS immensely. I wouldn't Throw/Bow on any other race, unless it was MILES better dps, and it sadly is not any better based on Race Alone for dmg, for this very reason. When it comes to IPS, Size DOES matter, its a very shitty truth to the game.. but a truth none-the-less.

You get 1d6 SA inherently from the dilletante. You gain 1d6 additional, for a total of 2d6, if you spend 6 AP. For a cost of 16 AP you would have 3d6. That is actually LESS investment for 2d6, and the same for 3d6.

Math is hard.

harharharhar wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2018 at 7:07pm:

Same cost for the SA dice, different cost for requirements to get the SA dice. for the +1w I'm talking about: "Stealthy: +1/+2/+3 Hide and Move Silently. Rank 3: Throw attacks you perform while sneaking deal +1[W] damage." I assume that means during any attack that counts as a sneak attack, and not specifically from stealth. I have never tested this particular enhancement as 1w was so trivial before the new shuriken was released

It specifically states while SNEAKING, not sneak attacking.

Sergod wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2018 at 7:20pm:

It specifically states while SNEAKING, not sneak attacking.

You are correct that that you can get 2 SA Dice with just 6 AP if you take Rogue Dilettante. That's a good catch, I forgot about the original one.

Regarding the +w, did you test it? As I said I have not, but even for  SSG that would be incredibly useless and hard to imagine that it only counts for a throw made in stealth.

harharharhar wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2018 at 8:16pm:

You are correct that that you can get 2 SA Dice with just 6 AP if you take Rogue Dilettante. That's a good catch, I forgot about the original one. Regarding the +w, did you test it? As I said I have not, but even for  SSG that would be incredibly useless and hard to imagine that it only counts for a throw made in stealth.

You’re really stretching there...

harharharhar wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2018 at 8:16pm:

You are correct that that you can get 2 SA Dice with just 6 AP if you take Rogue Dilettante. That's a good catch, I forgot about the original one. Regarding the +w, did you test it? As I said I have not, but even for  SSG that would be incredibly useless and hard to imagine that it only counts for a throw made in stealth.

Asked a source who knows well enough to take them at their word, SSG is retarded and made it specifically attacks from sneak mode, thereby making it utterly useless 99.99999% of the time.

With that in mind, any form of extending the SA range (Elf and Elven Subrace specific for races, ranger and mechanic can do it too), will be the optimal choice for throwing, unless you are always on their nutsack..

Vendui wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2018 at 12:22am:

Asked a source who knows well enough to take them at their word, SSG is retarded and made it specifically attacks from sneak mode, thereby making it utterly useless 99.99999% of the time. With that in mind, any form of extending the SA range (Elf and Elven Subrace specific for races, ranger and mechanic can do it too), will be the optimal choice for throwing, unless you are always on their nutsack..

Hard disagree with you about SA range, I still think halfling LoS is more important, but I also usually go with ranger levels and always have 15 meters from DWS. Obviously more is nice, but not at the cost of sucking at IPS. Helf is a great choice, elf is a questionable choice, halfling is a great choice. Do whatever.

Also, just tested this on an alt and it totally is just while sneaking, which leaves me with a new level of disappointment in SSG. I mean come the fuck on.

9 Spellcraft ranks?

Carpone wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 4:45pm:

9 Spellcraft ranks?

wtf else do.

That makes more sense than anything else I could think of. >.>

Carpone wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 11:18pm:

That makes more sense than anything else I could think of. >.>

With the new tome mechanic you have way more skill points than you know what to do with

swim

What can a gimpy mofo replace the Completionist feat with?

AbominableIdiot wrote on Jan 8^th, 2018 at 12:01pm:

What can a gimpy mofo replace the Completionist feat with?

weapon focus piercing

AbominableIdiot wrote on Jan 8^th, 2018 at 12:01pm:

What can a gimpy mofo replace the Completionist feat with?

if you don't get it from Vistani, your priority should be Quickdraw if you don't have completionist.

harharharhar wrote on Jan 8^th, 2018 at 2:18pm:

if you don't get it from Vistani, your priority should be Quickdraw if you don't have completionist.

You should not take the quick draw feat. You get it from henshin mystic.

Sergod wrote on Jan 8^th, 2018 at 4:34pm:

You should not take the quick draw feat. You get it from henshin mystic.

motherfucker when did they give henchin's quickdraw

harharharhar wrote on Jan 8^th, 2018 at 5:50pm:

motherfucker when did they give henchin's quickdraw

U33.

Can you post a character sheet?  I think it'd solve a lot of peoples' questions.

^ Yes, please do this!

AbominableIdiot wrote on Jan 9^th, 2018 at 12:28pm:

^ Yes, please do this!

What all do y'all want pics of?

Sergod wrote on Jan 9^th, 2018 at 1:39pm:

What all do y'all want pics of?

of dicks. what else is there?

So how was half elf?  Ive been thinking of taking the rogue dilly if I end up taking my racial triple completionist into this build.

Half elf is awesome. Best race for thrower for sure.

Rubbinns wrote on Jan 9^th, 2018 at 2:17pm:

of dicks. what else is there?

http://www.officialdickvandyke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/DvD-Studio-Still.jpg

How well does this build play in heroics?

The same every build plays in heroics?

QuantumFX wrote on Jan 10^th, 2018 at 11:58am:

How well does this build play in heroics?

Better off with RP in heroics because AF, 10k, and manyshot are all RP based. There isn't prowess and blitz to add 200 mp. Getting doubleshot in heroics is a better way to play a thrower. DWS and VKF give 30 dshot, another 20 if you're willing to use rapid throw ( must have IPS off and doesn't play well with candle/poison ).

In epics; this is one of the best builds anyone could be playing. More dps than fury versions. Serg's build and the Symb's monk are the new meta. You should all be playing one of these builds until they're nerfed. 

I have numerous reports from Khyber friends (strongest thrower players I know, Lava Divers, Elite Raiders, etc) and reviews are very mixed. Several are already TR'ing back to splits for running in Fury after doing the 20 Monk build. These are people who are fully geared with sentient/new items and PLs. One guildy loves it, one is still trying it out, and guild leader is on the fence to try it. These are all extremely respectable players who regularly post firsts in the achievements forum.

I have not capped mine due to limited play time so I have no opinion at this time, but most reports are that DPS is not better than a Fury and that it is EXTREMELY boring to play, which among Fury throwers is a pretty big concern. With zero active attacks outside of Pin/Otto, and very little burst, this is basically a run around auto attacking build with macro's to stay buffed. If that play style is something you enjoy, this is definitely the best build to do that on.

Rubbinns wrote on Jan 10^th, 2018 at 3:28pm:

Better off with RP in heroics because AF, 10k, and manyshot are all RP based. There isn't prowess and blitz to add 200 mp. Getting doubleshot in heroics is a better way to play a thrower. DWS and VKF give 30 dshot, another 20 if you're willing to use rapid throw ( must have IPS off and doesn't play well with candle/poison ). In epics; this is one of the best builds anyone could be playing. More dps than fury versions. Serg's build and the Symb's monk are the new meta. You should all be playing one of these builds until they're nerfed.

I've been leveling it as a thrower and it fucking sucks (compared to a Warlock). Compared to lots of other things it's fine, but very dependant on having twink gear to not be awful.

harharharhar wrote on Jan 10^th, 2018 at 4:25pm:

I have numerous reports from Khyber friends (strongest thrower players I know, Lava Divers, Elite Raiders, etc) and reviews are very mixed. Several are already TR'ing back to splits for running in Fury after doing the 20 Monk build. These are people who are fully geared with sentient/new items and PLs. One guildy loves it, one is still trying it out, and guild leader is on the fence to try it. These are all extremely respectable players who regularly post firsts in the achievements forum. I have not capped mine due to limited play time so I have no opinion at this time, but most reports are that DPS is not better than a Fury and that it is EXTREMELY boring to play, which among Fury throwers is a pretty big concern. With zero active attacks outside of Pin/Otto, and very little burst, this is basically a run around auto attacking build with macro's to stay buffed. If that play style is something you enjoy, this is definitely the best build to do that on.

I'm triple everything completionist, with every piece of gear, and have MANY firsts/achievements. Want to see my epeen bruh? Your opinion of yourself is freaking hilarious.

I will literally transfer to Khyber this weekend, and rip aggro off any of these 8/6/6 fury builds.

Sergod wrote on Jan 10^th, 2018 at 10:30pm:

I will literally transfer to Khyber this weekend, and rip aggro off any of these 8/6/6 fury builds.

kewl bro

I didn't give an opinion by the way, or talk about my ePeen. I said this is a very high DPS build that people seem to be bored with quickly just because it's very monotonous. Not because it's not a really strong build that's great at killing things. I will give an opinion at level 30 when I get there, which no one will care about.

harharharhar wrote on Jan 10^th, 2018 at 11:13pm:

kewl bro ... I will give an opinion at level 30 when I get there, which no one will care about.

Rofl.  Welcome to the vault.  You hit shit right on the head there

Sergod wrote on Jan 9^th, 2018 at 1:39pm:

What all do y'all want pics of?

Character Sheet and Inventory.  Thanks broseph  8-)

10/10 would play again. Just wish helf wasn't so fugly.

AbominableIdiot wrote on Jan 11^th, 2018 at 9:00am:

Character Sheet and Inventory.  Thanks broseph  8-)

I had held off on posting a lot due to certain bugs that changed how I geared my character. Die to the patch today that has changed. I will post all of the information this weekend, including gear.

Lost 30 melee power  this patch :(

Sergod wrote on Jan 11^th, 2018 at 9:43am:

Lost 30 melee power  this patch :(

The cosmetics bug? Yeah, I don't have both sets now and I just can't bring myself to swap mantle of fury for that trashy ass silent avenger cloak, or the strahd cloak... :(

AbominableIdiot wrote on Jan 11^th, 2018 at 10:01am:

The cosmetics bug? Yeah, I don't have both sets now and I just can't bring myself to swap mantle of fury for that trashy ass silent avenger cloak, or the strahd cloak... :(

You want the SA set. Do it.

The shadowhail cloak is a very good item.

Yeah I don't doubt it.  I just lose my Con, Dodge, and Doublestrike item if I replace Mantle of Fury.  And my items are so tight I can't replace enough to make it worth it  :(

AbominableIdiot wrote on Jan 12^th, 2018 at 9:11am:

Yeah I don't doubt it.  I just lose my Con, Dodge, and Doublestrike item if I replace Mantle of Fury.  And my items are so tight I can't replace enough to make it worth it  :(

You sound like a bunch of people that are terrible at gearing.

http://www.ddovault.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1498343159/100#100

replace the armor with Disciple of Dawn.

swap the parry suffix on boots with anything else that you like on the planner.

might as well keep the wisdom on slavers necklace for the will saves.

the bracers and the pinnacle are the weakest slots. bracers I con and q prr. ring balanced attacks on ranged in water stance. neck, pinnacle, and bracers can be changed around for other items. by moving the slavers stats on the neck onto ring or bracers and freeing up one of the other slots for something else.

I Con can be on a ring; positive lore/devotion/I con 7. Then you can use a heal amp x3 lgs kama. ring is asherent 5th item.

Bracers can have spell saves+dodge for even better reflex vs spells. which also frees up the boot slots for potentially an adherent set. or use the strahd raid necklace and put the slavers stats onto your boots. either option gets back the adherent set.

you will lose 2 i con and i seeker (not a big deal). get back the q prr using slavers over q wis. or just drop it and get q con on the slavers. you gain spell saves, hamp off the kama, positive lore, and either fom on the boots or wind through the trees on the neck.

AbominableIdiot wrote on Jan 12^th, 2018 at 9:11am:

Yeah I don't doubt it.  I just lose my Con, Dodge, and Doublestrike item if I replace Mantle of Fury.  And my items are so tight I can't replace enough to make it worth it  :(

SA is worth it.

What all are your asymmetrical bonuses to MP aside from Prowess and Henshin?

It's between these 2 gear sets for me atm;

Silent Avenger Set:
When 3 pieces are equipped:
You gain a 15% Artifact Bonus to Doublestrike and Doubleshot.
You gain +3 Sneak Attack Dice.
You gain +25% Artifact bonus to Fortification Bypass.
You gain +10% Artifact bonus to Damage vs. Helpless Opponents.

Disciple of Dawn

Shadowhail Cloak
Hide ++22
Move Silently +22
Deception +16
Ghostly
Green Augment Slot

Braided Cutcord
Quality Dodge +4%
Blurry
Dex 19
Q Dex 4
Green Augment Slot


bracers cc
spell saves
dodge
ins fort

Crumbling Gloves
Insightful Dexterity ++9
Quality Intelligence +4
Shatter +22
Insightful Physical Sheltering +24
Blue Augment Slot


Van Richten's Spectacles Raid
Dexterity +20
Reflex +16
Doubleshot +12
Magical Sheltering +52
Blue Augment Slot
Green Augment Slot

ring 1
pos lore/devo/i con 7


Echo of Ravenkind Raid
Eternal Holy Burst While you are wearing this item, your melee, ranged, and unarmed attacks gain the Holy Burst ability. (This weapon is holy. The weapon deals an additional 1 to 6 good damage each hit. In addition, critical hits deal an additional 1 to 10 good damage for weapons with a x2 critical multiplier, 2 to 20 for a x3 critical multiplier and 3 to 30 for a x4 multiplier.)
True Seeing
Constitution +20
Improved Deception
Yellow Augment Slot
Green Augment Slot

Ring #2
Legendary Ring of Prowess
Deadly +14 Deadly +14: +14 Competence bonus to weapon damage.
Accuracy 28
Melee Power +8
Ranged Power +8
Green Augment Slot

Helm
Executioner
Insightful Deception +7Insightful Deception +7: +7 Insight bonus to hit, +11 damage for sneak attacks.
Relentless Fury
Seeker 17
Quality Combat Mastery +4
Green Augment Slot

Neck
Slavers
Wis 17
Resistance 14
Tendon Slice 14
Q prr

Boots
flightfoot greaves
fom
nat armor 19
reflex 16

or slavers
sheltering  (when mrr cap is raised, or swapping to mrr cap filigree)
armor pierce
umd
q con

Offhand
KtA lgs 15/7 int stick for swap.
Affirmation hamp/hamp/hamp.



VERSUS

Silent Avenger Set:
When 3 pieces are equipped:
You gain a 15% Artifact Bonus to Doublestrike and Doubleshot.
You gain +3 Sneak Attack Dice.
You gain +25% Artifact bonus to Fortification Bypass.
You gain +10% Artifact bonus to Damage vs. Helpless Opponents.

Disciple of Dawn

Shadowhail Cloak
Hide ++22
Move Silently +22
Deception +16
Ghostly
Green Augment Slot

Braided Cutcord
Quality Dodge +4%
Blurry
Dex 19
Q Dex 4
Green Augment Slot

Adherent of the Mists Set:
When 5 pieces are equipped:
You gain a ++20 Profane Bonus to Physical Resistance Rating.
You gain a +20 Profane Bonus to Positive, Negative, and Repair Healing Amplification.
You gain a +10 Profane Bonus to Melee and Ranged Power.
You gain a +20 Profane Bonus to Universal Spell Power.

Bracers of the Fallen Hero
Strength +19
Insightful Constitution +9
Stunning +22
Quality Physical Sheltering +12
Green Augment Slot

Crumbling Gloves
Insightful Dexterity ++9
Quality Intelligence +4
Shatter +22
Insightful Physical Sheltering +24
Blue Augment Slot


Van Richten's Spectacles Raid
Dexterity +20
Reflex +16
Doubleshot +12
Magical Sheltering +52
Blue Augment Slot
Green Augment Slot

Perfect Pinnacle
Reinforced Fists +0.5(W)/+1(W) To Unarmed
Deadly +5/+Legendary
Stunning +6/+Legendary
Soul of the Elements While you are centered, this item grants you a bonus depending on your current monk stance
Air: Your attacks do an additional 3d6 Electric damage per hit and also cause your target to bleed for 1d8 damage per hit.
Earth: You gain a +10 Insight bonus to Armor Calss and Reflex Saves.
Fire: Your attacks have a chance of blinding your target and causing a fear effect.
Water: Your attacks have a chance to knock your target down.
Yellow Augment Slot


Echo of Ravenkind Raid
Eternal Holy Burst While you are wearing this item, your melee, ranged, and unarmed attacks gain the Holy Burst ability. (This weapon is holy. The weapon deals an additional 1 to 6 good damage each hit. In addition, critical hits deal an additional 1 to 10 good damage for weapons with a x2 critical multiplier, 2 to 20 for a x3 critical multiplier and 3 to 30 for a x4 multiplier.)
True Seeing
Constitution +20
Improved Deception
Yellow Augment Slot
Green Augment Slot

Ring #2
Legendary Ring of Prowess
Deadly +14 Deadly +14: +14 Competence bonus to weapon damage.
Accuracy 28
Melee Power +8
Ranged Power +8
Green Augment Slot

Helm
Executioner
Insightful Deception +7Insightful Deception +7: +7 Insight bonus to hit, +11 damage for sneak attacks.
Relentless Fury
Seeker 17
Quality Combat Mastery +4
Green Augment Slot

Neck
Slavers
Wis 17
Resistance 14
Tendon Slice 14
Q Con 4

Boots
CC
Dodge 15
sheltering
Ins Seeker 7

Offhand
KtA lgs 15/7 int stick for swap.
Affirmation devo/hamp/hamp.


I think the first set up might be better overall?

set up 2 gains
adherent set 20prr+mrr, 10rp/mp, 20 hamp
pinnacle helpless
+2 I Con

set up 1 loses adherent - 20prr/mrr, -10 rp/mp
-2 I Con
no helpless cc from pinnacle

gains
pos lore
+10 hamp
spell saves
I Fort
umd
easy from swap
armor piercing

PA? for ranged? or is it for early leveling staff bambam???

bosuze wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 4:18am:

PA? for ranged? or is it for early leveling staff bambam???

It's for 0.5[W] in LD.

Carpone wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 5:29am:

It's for 0.5[W] in LD.

::)

yeah, now i remember that i already look it up...
thx n sorry, it's early here  :D

executioner helm
shroud pom neck
echo ravenkind
shadwhail cloak
cutcord
crumbings
wom shroud boots
aom shroud bracers
nightfall ring
perfect pinnacle
disciple of dawn

not married to it but its what i run

LGS hamp/affirmation offhand, or ...?

Here's the LGS effect breakdown for reference:

POM Neck:

Unconsciousness Range +128 Enhancement Bonus to Hit Points added to the Range of Unconsciousness.
Positive Healing 
+16 Enhancement Bonus to Positive Healing every 10 seconds.
Unconscious Range (+64 Insight); Positive Healing per 10s (+8 Insight)

Unconscious Range (+32 Quality); Positive Healing per 10s (+4 Quality)

WOM boots:

Cold Resistance +50 Enhancement Bonus to Cold Resistance.
Cold Resistance (+25 Insight)

Cold Resistance (+17 Competence)

AOM bracers:

Electric Resistance +50 Enhancement Bonus to Electric Resistance.
Electric Resistance (+25 Insight)

Electric Resistance (+17 Competence)

+24% HP from 9 opposition augments.

i use echo of sunsword offhand.

5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 10:47am:

What all are your asymmetrical bonuses to MP aside from Prowess and Henshin?

Fight club?

5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 5:32pm:

Fight club?

everything about my character is posted

5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 5:32pm:

Fight club?

no that's pretty much it

5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 10:47am:

What all are your asymmetrical bonuses to MP aside from Prowess and Henshin?

That's 120 power, plus the extra from LD.

Sergod wrote on Jan 18^th, 2018 at 6:58pm:

That's 120 power, plus the extra from LD.

The extra in LD comes from the cores giving 3MP but only 2RP, I think.

Sergod wrote on Jan 18^th, 2018 at 6:58pm:

That's 120 power, plus the extra from LD.

harharharhar wrote on Jan 18^th, 2018 at 8:21pm:

The extra in LD comes from the cores giving 3MP but only 2RP, I think.

So 75 from prowess, 40 from henshin, 5 from LD?

Versus 80ish from 10k, 45 from Archer's Focus, 20 from Deadly Rain? And 6 AP back?

5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 19^th, 2018 at 9:52am:

So 75 from prowess, 40 from henshin, 5 from LD? Versus 80ish from 10k, 45 from Archer's Focus, 20 from Deadly Rain? And 6 AP back?

Prowess gives 100 MP. Archers focus requires you to sit still lul.

Archers focus is largely irrelevant IMO.

5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 19^th, 2018 at 9:52am:

So 75 from prowess, 40 from henshin, 5 from LD? Versus 80ish from 10k, 45 from Archer's Focus, 20 from Deadly Rain? And 6 AP back?

Yes I was working this out last night in a spreadsheet. As Sergod mentioned, a big differentiator here is that, as you know, you have to stand still for AF.

For a pure monk the math isn't great, but for a split it's a lot better since a DWS ranger split can get 25 stacks of AF very quickly with Aimed Shot (and another 30RP).

I'm like lvl 24 with a version of pure monk Thrower (I don't think Sergods feats are maximized but thats just my opinion) and it is nice never having to click over to Precise Shot.

harharharhar wrote on Jan 19^th, 2018 at 12:00pm:

Yes I was working this out last night in a spreadsheet. As Sergod mentioned, a big differentiator here is that, as you know, you have to stand still for AF. For a pure monk the math isn't great, but for a split it's a lot better since a DWS ranger split can get 25 stacks of AF very quickly with Aimed Shot (and another 30RP). I'm like lvl 24 with a version of pure monk Thrower (I don't think Sergods feats are maximized but thats just my opinion) and it is nice never having to click over to Precise Shot.

having ips up full time, being in ld for infi boosts, and not having to stay in one spot to build up AF/IAF.  all advantages to serg's build. the fury versions can still outburst it for 30 seconds every 5 minutes and put up a faster kobold time, but the ease of getting serg's version to full retard damage is so much easier, and with much higher uptime than 30 seconds every 5 minutes.

Let's hear how to optimize my feats. Go on harhar

Sergod wrote on Jan 19^th, 2018 at 2:07pm:

Let's hear how to optimize my feats. Go on harhar

Level 1   : Point Blank Shot
Level 1(M):Shuriken Expertise
Level 2(M): Power Attack
Level 3   : Sneak of Shadows
Level 6   : Precise Shot
Level 6(M):10K Stars
Level 9   : Rapid Shot
Level 12 : Improved Critical
Level 15 : Improved Precise Shot
Level 18 : Completionist
Level 21 : Overwhelming Critical
Level 24 : Improved Martial Arts
Level 26 : Epic Skill Focus Hide
Level 27 : Blinding Speed
Level 28 : Doubleshot
Level 29 : Harbringer of Chaos
Level 30 : Combat Archery
Level 30 : Scion of the Ethereal Plane


I did some looking into it, and I felt that was a pretty decent way.

Epoch wrote on Jan 19^th, 2018 at 9:56pm:

Level 1   : Point Blank Shot Level 1(M):Shuriken Expertise Level 2(M): Power Attack Level 3   : Sneak of Shadows Level 6   : Precise Shot Level 6(M):10K Stars Level 9   : Rapid Shot Level 12 : Improved Critical Level 15 : Improved Precise Shot Level 18 : Completionist Level 21 : Overwhelming Critical Level 24 : Improved Martial Arts Level 26 : Epic Skill Focus Hide Level 27 : Blinding Speed Level 28 : Doubleshot Level 29 : Harbringer of Chaos Level 30 : Combat Archery Level 30 : Scion of the Ethereal Plane I did some looking into it, and I felt that was a pretty decent way.

Those are the same feats I have listed?  You funny

Copy/Paste is where it is at.

Epoch wrote on Jan 19^th, 2018 at 11:09pm:

Copy/Paste is where it is at.

Ya fam. Its the bee's knees.

I would use this list: 

http://www.ddovault.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1498343159

but updated to drop quickdraw.


5 Foot Step wrote on Jun 24^th, 2017 at 6:25pm:

Feat Progression: Level 1   : Point Blank Shot Level 1(M):Shuriken Expertise Level 2(M): Precision Level 3   : Precise Shot Level 6   : Rapid Shot Level 6(M):10K Stars Level 9   : Completionist Level 12 : Improved Critical Level 15 : Improved Precise Shot Level 18 : Weapon Focus Thrown Level 21 : Overwhelming Critical Level 24 : Combat Archery Level 26 : Epic Positive Spellpower Level 27 : Epic DR Level 28 : Doubleshot Level 29 : Elusive Target Level 30 : Sneak of Shadows Level 30 : Scion of the Ethereal

2 ranged power from Weapon Focus is obviously strictly better than .5[W] from Improved Martial Arts.

5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 20^th, 2018 at 11:23am:

2 ranged power from Weapon Focus is obviously strictly better than .5[W] from Improved Martial Arts.

I think you meant Weapon Focus: Slashing or other +2 melee power feat.  Someone can show the math if 0.5[W] < +2 melee power. 

+5 Hide > Positive Spell Power.  SA is really good.

Also, no to Epic DR @ 27.  You want Blinding Speed for 22% ranged alacrity.

And Elusive Target over Harbinger of Chaos: Why???  If Displacement + Shadow Veil + 31(?)% Dodge isnt going to save you with your playstyle, ET wont.

If you want a max DPS build instead of a reaper build, okay.

Still no need for redundant alacrity when there are pots and clickies and casters around. HJASTE ME!!!!!!

5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 20^th, 2018 at 4:46pm:

If you want a max DPS build instead of a reaper build, okay. Still no need for redundant alacrity when there are pots and clickies and casters around. HJASTE ME!!!!!!

What pots/clickies give 22% ranged alacrity?

I've soloed R5 Ravenloft quests with this build, so dont know what you're trying to say about DPS v reaper.

Carpone wrote on Jan 20^th, 2018 at 5:18pm:

What pots/clickies give 22% ranged alacrity? I've soloed R5 Ravenloft quests with this build, so dont know what you're trying to say about DPS v reaper.

Yep. I do reaper 10s on the daily. I'm also not sure how spell power positive is good for reapers...lol.

I'm also going to say that I am almost certain that .5W is more damage. I could be wrong though.

Sergod wrote on Jan 21^st, 2018 at 12:33am:

I'm also going to say that I am almost certain that .5W is more damage. I could be wrong though.

Specifically on Shuriken, since they are 1d2, a flat 2 Power, will be better than .5W once you break a certain threshold of die..  unless im horribly out of the loop again..

with 10W, the Power falls behind the minimum dmg, and slightly behind on the maximum, while 20W breaks about even both in Minimum and maximum, whereas 30W pushes ahead of .5W increases of both Minimum and Maximum dmg thresholds.



10.5d2 = 10.5-21 dmg
10d2 = 10-20 = 10.2-20.4 dmg

20.5d2 = 20.5-41
20d2 = 20-40 = 20.4-40.8

30.5d2 = 30.5-61
30d2 = 30-60 = 30.6-61.2

*All values for second equations multiplied by 1.02 [ ((100+2)/100) = 2% power gain, or 1.02] The more Power one has, the higher the W value will need to be to break even, or gain, on damage. I would need ballparks of current Power caps, as well as W caps to determine which is actually better however.

While the eventual gains, are merely marginal gains at best, 2 additional power, if you can exceed 30W, will be best choice over .5W gains. Im not sure what current max W is obtainable on stars, thats what you lot are for ^-^

5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 20^th, 2018 at 11:23am:

2 ranged power from Weapon Focus is obviously strictly better than .5[W] from Improved Martial Arts.

Vendui wrote on Jan 21^st, 2018 at 1:00am:

Specifically on Shuriken, since they are 1d2, a flat 2 Power, will be better than .5W once you break a certain threshold of die..  unless im horribly out of the loop again..

In terms of endgame, the shuriken (spite) has a die size of [1d2+3]; this translates to a 4.5 damage median. Half of this (at 2.25) is then prone to scale with the existing 300+ Melee Power, which will lead to superior values than what 2 MP can grant; increasing the base number prior to exponential scaling is usually better than increasing the scaling factor, in terms of increments of merely 2 Melee Power.


Sergod wrote on Jan 21^st, 2018 at 12:33am:

I'm also going to say that I am almost certain that .5W is more damage. I could be wrong though.

You're not  :)

Carpone wrote on Jan 20^th, 2018 at 5:18pm:

What pots/clickies give 22% ranged alacrity?

Haste.


Sergod wrote on Jan 20^th, 2018 at 6:04pm:

Yep. I do reaper 10s on the daily. I'm also not sure how spell power positive is good for reapers...lol.

Sometimes you need to be able to heal yourself thru the debuff, and if you aren't throwing an occasional spot heal to a party member, then you are a waste of a slot. The alternative is a measly 2 SA damage.


Vendui wrote on Jan 21^st, 2018 at 1:00am:

unless im horribly out of the loop again..

You can't take this guy seriously, he thinks MP/RP only applies to weapon dice...  ::)


Sergod wrote on Jan 21^st, 2018 at 12:33am:

I could be wrong though.

I could presume math for your build, and then compare it to the out of date math for my old build. But really the only thing that matters is your average melee/ranged power. I'm ballparking you'd need about 230 average to come out ahead on IMA. I'm sure your build can exceed 230, but I'm also sure that it does not average that much.

5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 21^st, 2018 at 12:07pm:

Haste. Sometimes you need to be able to heal yourself thru the debuff, and if you aren't throwing an occasional spot heal to a party member, then you are a waste of a slot. The alternative is a measly 2 SA damage. You can't take this guy seriously, he thinks MP/RP only applies to weapon dice...  ::) I could presume math for your build, and then compare it to the out of date math for my old build. But really the only thing that matters is your average melee/ranged power. I'm ballparking you'd need about 230 average to come out ahead on IMA. I'm sure your build can exceed 230, but I'm also sure that it does not average that much.

It averages more than that. I'm usually walking around higher than that, sans prowess. Haste does not give 22% ranged. You can't heal through the R10 debuff...

5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 21^st, 2018 at 12:07pm:

You can't take this guy seriously, he thinks MP/RP only applies to weapon dice...

Not once did i state it only applied to weapon dice. I merely pointed out the fact, that once you get into larger values of Power, adding very small increases to that power, does very little due to diminishing returns. If i knew the base line of each throw, could easily determine at what exact W one would need to have IMA overpower 2 additional power. Again, larger Power totals, reduces the total effectiveness of more power in small increments..

Sergod wrote on Jan 21^st, 2018 at 1:16pm:

It averages more than that. I'm usually walking around higher than that, sans prowess.

Walking around Ranged Power:
30 epic
15 LD
24 reaper ap
10 Mythic
10 item
4 artifact
2 inherent
40 henshin
=135 RP

Boosted:
70 blitz
75 prowess
30 action boost
=310

What am I missing?


Sergod wrote on Jan 21^st, 2018 at 1:16pm:

Haste does not give 22% ranged.

Yes it does. Or blinding speed doesn't give 22%, depending on how you look at it. Either way, they are the same. Just don't use a speed 15 item.


Sergod wrote on Jan 21^st, 2018 at 1:16pm:

You can't heal through the R10 debuff...

That's why you're supposed to heal the other guy.

5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 5:20pm:

Walking around Ranged Power: 30 epic 15 LD 24 reaper ap 10 Mythic 10 item 4 artifact 2 inherent 40 henshin =135 RP Boosted: 70 blitz 75 prowess 30 action boost =310 What am I missing? Yes it does. Or blinding speed doesn't give 22%, depending on how you look at it. Either way, they are the same. Just don't use a speed 15 item. That's why you're supposed to heal the other guy.

Blinding speed is 22% vs 15% from normal haste and anything else. Haste gives 15%...easy to test.

Some missing MP:

100 for prowess even though text says 75
20 from filigrees (10 from 2 sets and 10 from 2 MP filigrees)
10 from mist set
5 from Henshin Focus - T4
It is 18 MP for LD

+63 to your list


20 from crypt set if you don't use the superior silent avenger, was possible to do both before with cosmetic

Mythic could be higher than 10 if you have +3s on gear and +4 weapon. There are also reaper possibilities on items that will increase even more.

Also can get +2 for each of the melee weapon focus feats

Not sure where the 10 on item is from. Ring of prowess has 8...is there another item with 10?

Action boost and blizt are all the time not boosted...

Prowess is 50% uptime.

Still not impressed with versatility. Assuming they fix it today, prowess only nets 17.5 over deadly rain.

5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 11:12am:

Still not impressed with versatility. Assuming they fix it today, prowess only nets 17.5 over deadly rain.

Bingo. And costs a zillion AP in Henshin and Vistani

Sergod wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 7:42pm:

Action boost and blizt are all the time not boosted...

Until you go through the bs in-mission zone transitions they puked all over the new RL content that kills blitz, auras, and multiple other effects and get stuck with a cooldown timer for no reason other than the devs incompetence.

Digimonk wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 1:30pm:

Until you go through the bs in-mission zone transitions they puked all over the new RL content that kills blitz, auras, and multiple other effects and get stuck with a cooldown timer for no reason other than the devs incompetence.

bingo, except for long raids without portals, a big reason LD is a subpar destiny (it's shitty and should be fixed for sure).

5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 11:12am:

prowess only nets 17.5 over deadly rain.

"Only", lol.

Something you guys aren't getting because you're theorycrafting instead of playing: This is a fun build to play.  Yes, Blitz disappearing on teleport doors sucks donkey balls, but you can mitigate that well enough by knowing the quest.

Carpone wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 5:59pm:

"Only", lol. Something you guys aren't getting because you're theorycrafting instead of playing: This is a fun build to play.  Yes, Blitz disappearing on teleport doors sucks donkey balls, but you can mitigate that well enough by knowing the quest.

ive played throwers, including ones in LD, longer than almsot anyone who still plays DDO, except maybe 5FS. Most of you in this thread are the ones who have only ever played this build, or maybe 14/6 from pre-u36.

This build is actually a lot less fun to play for me. because you just autoattack. Every bit of active play from a Fury build has been stripped out.

On top of that you potentially lose a significant amount of DPS everytime you must portal somewhere because Blitz, which is not actually all that rare in quests and raids. That isn't this builds fault of course, but it matters nonetheless.

And finally, I have this build at 25, I know exactly how it plays. It's a line up mobs and autoattack build, at level 30 with final gear set it's no different, the numbers just get bigger.

Carpone wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 5:59pm:

"Only", lol. Something you guys aren't getting because you're theorycrafting instead of playing: This is a fun build to play.  Yes, Blitz disappearing on teleport doors sucks donkey balls, but you can mitigate that well enough by knowing the quest.

I'm not sure either of them has ever actually done anything in DDO, besides post on the vault.

Sergod wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 9:43pm:

I'm not sure either of them has ever actually done anything in DDO, besides post on the vault.

lol

have you figured out the gear list?

which twists are you using?

Scroll back a page for the gear.

I started with Whirling Wrists/Meld Into Darkness/Rejuv Cocoon/Enlightenment/A Dance with Flowers.  Lately I've been running Renewal instead of Meld for high skull reaper.  With 138 Devotion in offhand and 60 Heal, it's worthwhile.  If most everyone I run with would actually twist it, I'd get rid of Cocoon for Stay Frosty I guess.

Is this build viable in the future? By that I mean in the next 2 months do you think it'll be nerfed/fixed?

And how you lv this up? Melee + heart at X lv or just go ranged from start? I don't have a TR train.

Vaultaccount wrote on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 3:51pm:

By that I mean in the next 2 months do you think it'll be nerfed/fixed?

should be good. even shintao has months ahead of it, at worst. if duality doesn't get adjusted then spite and ranged builds will not be touched. eventually, I do expect ssg to further increase the ranged damage reaper penalty, and to adjust how spite dot works.

we know once they do a druid pass that they will ruin tree and wolf builds.

I run sense weakness, whirling wrists, pin, enlightenment, and dance of flowers,

Carpone wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 5:59pm:

Something you guys aren't getting because you're theorycrafting instead of playing: This is a fun build to play.

I've been playing the same build but without the RP/MP gimmick since June.

http://www.ddovault.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1498343159

Yes, it is fun. No, there is nothing new under the sun.

5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 10:19am:

I've been playing the same build but without the RP/MP gimmick since June. http://www.ddovault.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1498343159 Yes, it is fun. No, there is nothing new under the sun.

LOOLOL SHADOWDANCER AND 146 POWER. Also 17-20 vs 15-20

Umm, yeah, it's not updated. Obviously LD got a huge boost with RL. I always said default to SD with SA immune heavy metagame (that's the only way pure monk can bypass SA immunity), but swap to LD when appropriate.

5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 12:29pm:

Umm, yeah, it's not updated. Obviously LD got a huge boost with RL. I always said default to SD with SA immune heavy metagame (that's the only way pure monk can bypass SA immunity), but swap to LD when appropriate.

This is especially important in new Ravenloft content where LOTS of undead aren't taking any SA damage from me.

I tried to say on the first page of this thread that this is not a new build, it's just a pure 20 thrower that is optimized for MP based on new Vistani tree, which again, as an idea MP was bandied about in 5FS's pure thread before RL was even released.

This build is probably better in SD than LD for Ravenloft content

Sergod wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 9:15am:

LOOLOL SHADOWDANCER AND 146 POWER. Also 17-20 vs 15-20

Don't be a cunt just acknowledge what came before you

harharharhar wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 2:35pm:

This is especially important in new Ravenloft content where LOTS of undead aren't taking any SA damage from me. [...] This build is probably better in SD than LD for Ravenloft content

Um, what? 

If you propose SD > LD, then provide the math to back it up.

Carpone wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 5:01pm:

Um, what?  If you propose SD > LD, then provide the math to back it up.

This build loses close to a third of it's DPS against undead because of SA immunity, SD allows a bypass to SA immunity. Undead problem solved.

harharharhar wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 7:59pm:

This build loses close to a third of it's DPS against undead because of SA immunity, SD allows a bypass to SA immunity. Undead problem solved.

This proves and answers nothing.

If it is doing 50% more in LD than in SD, losing 33% means it'd still be better in LD.

Post the math or go home.

Even beyond that, you're theorizing in a vaccum and/or assuming 100% solo runs.   Being in a group with others who can enable sneak attack would obviously favor LD still. 

Digimonk wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 5:35pm:

This proves and answers nothing. If it is doing 50% more in LD than in SD, losing 33% means it'd still be better in LD. Post the math or go home. Even beyond that, you're theorizing in a vaccum and/or assuming 100% solo runs.   Being in a group with others who can enable sneak attack would obviously favor LD still.

I think maybe you dont understand the difference between sneak attack and sneak attack immunity. undead have immunity. Aggro is irrelevant as is number of people the party.

Against undead, you are:
-Not critting very much (depending on bypass value and fort)
-not Sneak Attacking
-probably reduced physical damage of some sort

Also, LD is not even close to 50% more damage than SD for this build.

You actually get more MP per tier of SD than LD (4 vs 3) for 24
You also get 6 more Dexterity (which is at least 3 base damage if not 6% missile rate if you aren't capped at 100 dex
You also get 6 SA dice, plus a temp boost of 2 more SA dice
You also get about 10 more Hide points
You get a blanket 5% increase in physical damage debuff that procs with SA Immunity debuff which at 12 second duration is permanently up on mobs (4 stars a throw, 1.5 throws/sec = 3.4 secs to roll a 20 on avg)

From LD you lose:

+1 Crit Threat (again, against undead, this is of less consequence than other mobs)
70 - 6 (cores) for 62 more MP than in SD. Given that you are running around at or around 270MP, 270 v 208 MP is a difference of 23% physical damage (and SA dice) scaling from different MP.

The worst part of not running in LD is actually not the loss of MP, it's the loss of Action Boost cooldowns for Prowess Set activation.

However, with the massive amount of SA damage this build does, full time SA damage uptime from SD Core 6 makes it preferable to running in LD versus SA immune mobs.

Eat dicks

harharharhar wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 6:58pm:

I think maybe you dont understand the difference between sneak attack and sneak attack immunity. undead have immunity. Aggro is irrelevant as is number of people the party. Against undead, you are: -Not critting very much (depending on bypass value and fort) -not Sneak Attacking -probably reduced physical damage of some sort Also, LD is not even close to 50% more damage than SD for this build. You actually get more MP per tier of SD than LD (4 vs 3) for 24 You also get 6 more Dexterity (which is at least 3 base damage if not 6% missile rate if you aren't capped at 100 dex You also get 6 SA dice, plus a temp boost of 2 more SA dice You also get about 10 more Hide points You get a blanket 5% increase in physical damage debuff that procs with SA Immunity debuff which at 12 second duration is permanently up on mobs (4 stars a throw, 1.5 throws/sec = 3.4 secs to roll a 20 on avg) From LD you lose: +1 Crit Threat (again, against undead, this is of less consequence than other mobs) 70 - 6 (cores) for 62 more MP than in SD. Given that you are running around at or around 270MP, 270 v 208 MP is a difference of 23% physical damage (and SA dice) scaling from different MP. The worst part of not running in LD is actually not the loss of MP, it's the loss of Action Boost cooldowns for Prowess Set activation. However, with the massive amount of SA damage this build does, full time SA damage uptime from SD Core 6 makes it preferable to running in LD versus SA immune mobs. Eat dicks

Maybe you don't understand the difference between a wall of text with some numbers and actual math.  This wall of text didn't prove shit.  All you've done is puke some numbers up that we already knew or could easily look up.

Maybe you don't understand that if you have other people in your groups that enable SA on immune mobs, it doesn't matter if you have it.  Kind of surprised even you missed that point but whatever.

Additionally, you seem pretty dismissive of how much melee/ranged power affects Spite with it's extra base dmg.  Sergod already stated that his build is at 100 Dex in LD in Fire Stance, so the difference in Dex is moot.  60 additional melee power plus more AB than you can generally use between shrines, the extra crit range, and the other minor goodies in LD likely put this on par or likely still even ahead of SD even when you're not critting.

But hey, feel free to post some actual DPS math taking all the factors into account, or better yet, post a screenshot of you running 5FS's build getting > 2k damager per shuri on non crits.  Shouldn't be that hard to do if you're right.

The number of errors in everything that harhar said is hilarious. Please keep talking so that you can continue to prove your ignorance.

Sergod wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 10:49pm:

The number of errors in everything that harhar said is hilarious. Please keep talking so that you can continue to prove your ignorance.

convincing.

Digimonk wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 10:42pm:

Maybe you don't understand the difference between a wall of text with some numbers and actual math.  This wall of text didn't prove shit.  All you've done is puke some numbers up that we already knew or could easily look up. Maybe you don't understand that if you have other people in your groups that enable SA on immune mobs, it doesn't matter if you have it.  Kind of surprised even you missed that point but whatever. Additionally, you seem pretty dismissive of how much melee/ranged power affects Spite with it's extra base dmg.  Sergod already stated that his build is at 100 Dex in LD in Fire Stance, so the difference in Dex is moot.  60 additional melee power plus more AB than you can generally use between shrines, the extra crit range, and the other minor goodies in LD likely put this on par or likely still even ahead of SD even when you're not critting. But hey, feel free to post some actual DPS math taking all the factors into account, or better yet, post a screenshot of you running 5FS's build getting > 2k damager per shuri on non crits.  Shouldn't be that hard to do if you're right.

Here's an idea, PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS

then log into DDO, and try running some RL stuff that's heavy on undead in SD and SEE WHAT YOU THINK FOR YOURSELF.

Then you don't even need to fucking bother asking me.

harharharhar wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 11:24pm:

Here's an idea, PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS then log into DDO, and try running some RL stuff that's heavy on undead in SD and SEE WHAT YOU THINK FOR YOURSELF. Then you don't even need to fucking bother asking me.

What server are you on? I'll transfer over and shit on your face. You have to eat it though.

i'm on khyber, I already told you that. and you can transfer and poopsex wherever you want child.

harharharhar wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 11:24pm:

Here's an idea, PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS then log into DDO, and try running some RL stuff that's heavy on undead in SD and SEE WHAT YOU THINK FOR YOURSELF. Then you don't even need to fucking bother asking me.

Yeah, guess you don't really have any math.  Thought so. 

There's some serious irony in you talking about other people pulling things out of their ass considering you pull things out of yours on a regular basis.  This thread in particular is full of the turds you've pulled out.

You're so desperate you're cheerleading for someone's else's build which you previously spent multiple posts claiming wasn't very good.

I run RL Reapers regularly.  I have zero problems killing the undead.  I'm not even on Sergod's build and from the videos he's posted, that build hits harder than the non-SD shuri I'm currently using yet I still have zero problems with undead.

snowflakes every one of you

Can you fucking stop this shit dude? It sucks to read dozens of pages to filter out the posts that are actually relevant. Why do you keep  coming here if yyou don't play? Dam it get something to do.

3.4 second to proc the SD ability? Ya the r10 mob is dead.

Vaultaccount wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 1:03pm:

Can you fucking stop this shit dude? It sucks to read dozens of pages to filter out the posts that are actually relevant. Why do you keep  coming here if yyou don't play? Dam it get something to do.

1. I am playing again as of last month
2. playtime is limited but I've almost capped this build
3. all are based on first hand experience playing this build
4. if you dont like my posts block me but you'd be an idiot to do that. Up to you

harharharhar wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 5:25pm:

4. if you dont like my posts block me but you'd be an idiot to do that. Up to you

You know what I say to that?

harharharhar!

Dex is fungible, and "gaining" 62.5 power by converting MP->RP is situational at best considering that you have to give up 40-50 RP from 10k AND up to 45 from archer's focus AND waste ~20 AP.

Opportunity costs, people.

Everything else is equivalent. I'm not advocating SD as a default, I'm just saying it has it's place. Even without SA in LD, you still pwn trash via obscene helpless damage (50% base + Sense Weakness + Combat Brute + No Mercy + Silent Avenger + ship buff). But if you don't bring a competent rogue to remove SA immunity from the bosses, then you would have been better off in SD.

As I said before, the build hasn't really changed, it just got new gear (mainly Perfect Pinnacle and Purifying Quiver) that makes LD sexier than it used to be, and someone is trying to score fake internet points by attributing Ravenloft powercreep to a MP->RP gimmick.

That is all.

5 Foot Step wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 11:12am:

Dex is fungible, and "gaining" 62.5 power by converting MP->RP is situational at best considering that you have to give up 40-50 RP from 10k AND up to 45 from archer's focus AND waste ~20 AP. Opportunity costs, people. Everything else is equivalent. I'm not advocating SD as a default, I'm just saying it has it's place. Even without SA in LD, you still pwn trash via obscene helpless damage (50% base + Sense Weakness + Combat Brute + No Mercy + Silent Avenger + ship buff). But if you don't bring a competent rogue to remove SA immunity from the bosses, then you would have been better off in SD. As I said before, the build hasn't really changed, it just got new gear (mainly Perfect Pinnacle and Purifying Quiver) that makes LD sexier than it used to be, and someone is trying to score fake internet points by attributing Ravenloft powercreep to a MP->RP gimmick. That is all.

good summary

Ran a bunch of ravenloft last night, and no most parties do not have rogues consistently removing SA immunity in general content. Raids maybe if you specifically find someone to do that.

I mostly agree with everything you have written above. I NEVER said SD is better than LD, I said when you can't get SA damage, you should go SD (aka Undead) if you want to keep your DPS up.

Edit: it's more than 20 AP, it's 7 in VKF and the 21 or so in Henshin

How about we forget all this. I do significantly more damage than you do. Show me a RP build doing my DPS and I'll  delete my thread.

Sergod wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 12:21pm:

How about we forget all this. I do significantly more damage than you do. Show me a RP build doing my DPS and I'll  delete my thread.

To cover all bases, show them your damage against undead and in raven loft, as this seems to be the point of contention.

Show the damage with blitz reset to 0 too

Sergod wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 12:21pm:

How about we forget all this. I do significantly more damage than you do. Show me a RP build doing my DPS and I'll  delete my thread.

Solo or in a party?
If Party, what buffs/debuffs are present?
Against what mobs in what quest and for how long?
Vs Rednames?
Vs Champs?
Vs Regular Mobs?
Raid or Regular quest?
Do you have to use portals thus are lacking Blitz parts of the time?

It seems like you don't actually understand how this all works when you want to claim something about DPS. There is no DPS number. There is the highest DPS number that you can apply to the game the most amount of the time given who do you or do not play with, and in what quests.

Your build gets a VERY big boost from sneak attack damage. You fail to recognize that in situations where you can't do SA damage for any number of reasons, your DPS falls considerably. SD offers a bypass to that, as does have a rogue in the party.

These are material concerns with an end game currently revolving around mostly undead mobs, and worth discussion. Your pontificating, threatening, and overall hilarious bravado belie a typical lack of deeper thought about any of these things, or ability to consider the world outside your own experience. Specifically, the world that contains other people's experiences.

Separately from that is the conversation about the superiority given new gear of using 20+ AP to take advantage of Prowess and Henshin MP versus a little less RP but 20+ AP to spend otherwise.

The hilarious part is no one is even saying you're wrong or your build isn't very good. But it seems like the only thing you can accept is fawning praise, otherwise you completely lose your shit. That's a real good sign of of both immaturity, and insecurity.

I just want to tell you again: you are loved and your build is good. You are great at this game. I'm sorry you're angry.

5 Foot Step wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 11:12am:

"gaining" 62.5 power by converting MP->RP is situational at best considering that you have to give up 40-50 RP from 10k AND up to 45 from archer's focus AND waste ~20 AP.

Except that the AF and IAF have to be toggled off and on if you ever wish to use IPS with that AF/IAF buff. that's not happening. youre going to move, a lot. to line up your ips targets better, to avoid ray spells, arrows, kite mobs. there is no where, aside stationary boss fights, where youre getting full af/iaf stacks and then using ips. prowess turns every boost into 100 power. it allows ips to use all that power where af/iaf builds could never.

Rubbinns wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:09pm:

Except that the AF and IAF have to be toggled off and on if you ever wish to use IPS with that AF/IAF buff. that's not happening. youre going to move, a lot. to line up your ips targets better, to avoid ray spells, arrows, kite mobs. there is no where, aside stationary boss fights, where youre getting full af/iaf stacks and then using ips. prowess turns every boost into 100 power. it allows ips to use all that power where af/iaf builds could never.

You should easily be able to hit 50-56 wisdom with end game gear now without trading off much of anything. 

Which is almost the difference on it's own.

You also get another 20 RP from from new set on Boost and it lasts longer, and more like permanent 20 because of increased duration.

Without AF or IAF on a split (which 5FS is defintely not talking about, he's talking about being pure), you're already looking at 70 RP versus 100 from Prowess and 40'ish from Henshin.

The real question is can you make up the difference of 70RP (140 - 70) with the 28'ish AP sunk into Henshin and VKF.

I think having all those points for Half Elf makes it close, because of the 3 SA dice, 3 Dex, 3 Boost Dex and 3 Boost Wisdom for 10k, along with Healing Amp and SA damage range. In top of all of that, against red names where you can stand mostly still, you can get up to that 45 RP from AF, which actually once you get it stacked, isn't that hard to stop for a couple seconds and start restacking it, and it doesn't decay that fast.

You could also do a little less in Helf with the extra AP and dump them into Harper for a pretty good sized gain (9RP, 2 or 3 Dex, a couple extra base damage, and like +10-12 base damage from KTA). This alone is probably just as good as MP build.

All I'm trying to say is, 5Fs is right that these things are not THAT far apart. He's not arguing RP build is better, he's arguing it's not much behind. I think he's right.

harharharhar wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:20pm:

You should easily be able to hit 50-56 wisdom with end game gear now without trading off much of anything.

Only during 10ks, which the build still gets 20 levels for 100 dshot, while doubling the wisdom rp during boosts. The 45 mp from henshin alone is close to what the gearing of a max wisdom rp build would gain. Henshin is a passive permanent buff, instead of 10k timers.
 

harharharhar wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:20pm:

You also get another 20 RP from from new set on Boost and it lasts longer, and more like permanent 20 because of increased duration.

how many boosts and what quantity? LD has 3 to pick from at 11 each with prowess. that is 330 seconds of prowess buff at a 33% faster rate than any other ED.
harharharhar wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:20pm:

(9RP, 2 or 3 Dex, a couple extra base damage, and like +10-12 base damage from KTA)

Every one uses KtA.


harharharhar wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:20pm:

You also get another 20 RP from from new set on Boost and it lasts longer, and more like permanent 20 because of increased duration. Without AF or IAF on a split (which 5FS is defintely not talking about, he's talking about being pure), you're already looking at 70 RP versus 100 from Prowess and 40'ish from Henshin.

nah, bruh. LD isn't standard boost cooldown and frequency of use changes the prowess duration, too. it's 45 henshin + 100 prowess against a 56 rp 10k timer, and stationary af stacks. 

Rubbinns wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 4:00pm:

Only during 10ks, which the build still gets 20 levels for 100 dshot, while doubling the wisdom rp during boosts. The 45 mp from henshin alone is close to what the gearing of a max wisdom rp build would gain. Henshin is a passive permanent buff, instead of 10k timers.   how many boosts and what quantity? LD has 3 to pick from at 11 each with prowess. that is 330 seconds of prowess buff at a 33% faster rate than any other ED. Every one uses KtA. nah, bruh. LD isn't standard boost cooldown and frequency of use changes the prowess duration, too. it's 45 henshin + 100 prowess against a 56 rp 10k timer, and stationary af stacks.

You left out 20 RP from the boost from the new set

Most off this is irrelevant because I am not talking about SD versus LD I am talking about RP vs MP in the post that you quoted. You're going off about LD vs SD which is an entirely separate conversation situationally for sneak attack immune mobs, and not about MP vs RP.

You can run RP or MP in LD all day long, which is the discussion you should be focusing on vis a vis 5FS's argument about RP vs MP.

Everyone does not use KTA.

A lot of people don't run KtA because they are too lazy to macro the switch to an Int item and they don't want to chug pots. I'm not one of them, but actually a lot of people in Discord I've talk to running this build are not running KTA.

Never liked. Too bad if I block it'll look like a monologue

Harhar you are functionally retarded. Just shut the fuck up.

harharharhar wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 11:33am:

Edit: it's more than 20 AP, it's 7 in VKF and the 21 or so in Henshin

You'll still want to have 8-11 in henshin for passive ki or passive ki + quick draw.


harharharhar wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:20pm:

You should easily be able to hit 50-56 wisdom with end game gear now without trading off much of anything.

It was 78 pre-ravenloft, so...even more now. I haven't finalized the build update as of yet.


harharharhar wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 2:39pm:

I just want to tell you again: you are loved and your build is good. You are great at this game. I'm sorry you're angry.

you are loved and your build is good. You are great at this game. I'm sorry you're angry.

5 Foot Step wrote on Feb 4^th, 2018 at 9:11am:

You'll still want to have 8-11 in henshin for passive ki or passive ki + quick draw.

I guess. You can twist enlightenment and run in Water honestly for higher reapers it's pretty nice to have the extra dodge.

I dont have perfect pinnacle yet but I would think Trip is much more useful than blind and fear, but without having played with either effect I don't actually know. Any opinions?

harharharhar wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 4:52pm:

RP or MP in LD all day long, which is the discussion you should be focusing on vis a vis 5FS's argument about RP vs MP.

even worse for pure monk, and outside of fury, to try matching an inferior version of prowess up against prowess in LD. They will only ever be close when 10k is up and when having up AF stacks. Fury builds, with way less boosts, can at least mitigate 10k cooldowns by using manyshot and adrenalines. Pure builds have nothing for off time. On Serg's build, the off time between cooldowns does not change the damage per star. And the damage is the same even while moving around when IPS'ing. And prowess is up every 10 of 20 seconds. best filigree of all time. 

What you're saying is,

with 80 Wisdom and Deadly Rain set, you have 100RP for about the same amount of time (50% uptime) as you do for 100MP from Prowess?

That sounds about right. Or am I missing something? No idea what you're talking about about with AF, that would just increase your DPS when standing still for bosses. You can get 100 RP from Deadly and 10K without AF stacks.

Except that 10K is not limited by number of action boosts (which are not really limited in LD since you have so many) but still

harharharhar wrote on Feb 5^th, 2018 at 6:39pm:

about the same amount of time (50% uptime) as you do for 100MP from Prowess?

no, because once youre out of 10k, prowess still has prowess.  and are you really going with 80 wisdm as a score?

Rubbinns wrote on Feb 5^th, 2018 at 7:26pm:

no, because once youre out of 10k, prowess still has prowess.  and are you really going with 80 wisdm as a score?

very easy to swap 20/7/4 wisdom item before 10k
14 base
7 tome
2 pot
2 pot
2 guild
1 globe
2 profane
2 Completionist
32 Wisdom
+
31 Items
= very easy 63 wisdom. And I'm sure there are lots of easy other sources I'm not even counting, least of which is water stance for 4 more for 67. I'll let 5FS breakdown reasonable max wisdom. Racial completionist is one source, and I think there are some other temporary buffs. If Helf you can boost for 3 more using AB

In any case, maybe 70 Wisdom is the right number  for 90RP with 10k and Deadly Rain which is realy fucking close when you're talking about 300-350 MP/RP to 100 MP from Prowess.

Prowess still having Prowess argument seems like nonsense to me. You get it 50% of the time, just like with 10k. Biggest difference is that you get all that ranged power for all of 10k (or most of it, the 20 from deadly rain is 20 of those seconds, which in LD is actually full time). So honestly, this is basically a wash.

It's really a question of wanting to have absolute highest MP all the time using Henshin/VKF, or lose about 10% of your MP/RP outside of AF stance (which is like 6-7% total DPS because new shuriken is too bad ass and dot is insane) but have 20'ish AP to take more defensive or utility AP allocations for whatever reason. Or allocate those to other damage increasing enhancements (RP in Harper, stats, SA dice in racial, etc). Also, during red/purple named fights it wont be very hard to get AF stacks to make up that last 6-7% damage pretty quickly.

tldr;
MP is more DPS than RP by about 6-7% back of the envelope, the trade-off is in optionality on other things for your character than that last little bit of DPS.

MP with Prowess set/Hensh/Weapon Vers vs RP.

Here is a quick breakdown off the top of my head - probably missing something:
Ranged Power version
Lvl 30 - 30
Tome - 2
Filigree - 20
Filigree set - 20 (with AB)
AF - up to 45 - if standing still (who does this in reaper)
Ring of Prowess - 8
Mythic/Reaper bonus - variable
LD  - 12
Blitz - 70
Mist set - 10
RP action boost - 30
10K stars - 50% of the time - 80 (assuming an 80 wisdom)
Harper - 3-9 depending on how deep you go into this tree. For this we will use 9

Total at least 211...if standing still for a long time you can hit 247 with AF...291 moving and 346 not moving 50% of the time


Melee Power version:
Henshin - 45
LD - 18
Tome - 2
LVL 30 - 30
Filigree - 20
Filigree - prowess set bonus - 100 - 50%
Ring of Prowess 8
Mist set - 10
Mythic/Reaper - Variable
Blitz - 70
MP Action Boost - 30

Total - at least 253 and 353 50% of the time. I am personally getting up to 380+ in reaper.


253 > 211 without prowess or 10k - 20% more damage
353 50% up time > 291 or 346(AF) -50% up time - so like 20% more damage unless in AF

So for the mobile monk like me, 42-58 more power seems best. The only time RP comes close (-7) is while standing still.

MP cons
go deeper into Henshin for 45MP
6 AP (not 7 as some have posted) for weapon versitility.
Probably need to have a decent amount of racial PLs to get more into HELF racial APs

RP cons...to even come close to the numbers you get from MP version, you need to have a high wisdom (80? sacrificing maybe con or some dex to reach this)
Stand still a lot for AF - does not seem feasible except maybe for fighting bosses that do not move either
Go deeper into Harper tree?

I would personally struggle to hit over 70 wisdom and still have my gear be optimal, so the numbers above for RP would probably be lower for most.

BTW, I have seen numbers from myself and those posted here for the melee power version. If you would like to post similar screen shots with an RP version we can easily see the difference. I don't think you will achieve 1.4K non-crit front damage though with RP version.

DragonCrotch wrote on Feb 5^th, 2018 at 7:58pm:

MP with Prowess set/Hensh/Weapon Vers vs RP. Snip

great breakdown,

couple points of contention:
-Not sure why you have blitz as 30 when it's 70
-70 Wisdom is literally easy to hit as a swap, 80 might be harder but we'll see what 5FS comes up with
-I think your ballpark is basically spot on, the difference in Power is 45 from Henshin and whatever difference you have in your wisdom from 80. So if your wisdom is 70, you're down 55 RP from the MP version. However

320MP-55RP=265RP
55RP/265 RP = .2 or 20% reduction in M/R|P

But since SA and front number damage is like only like, 70% of actual DPS with new shuriken, this is a total sustained loss of about 14% DPS at 70 Wisdom. More like 10% at 80 Wisdom.

That's not to diminish the MP build, but that's really the trade-off at the end of the day for those 20'ish AP you get back.

Fun fact: If the devs ever fix/nerf prowess to it's stated 75MP, this difference basically disappears, and using AF you actually would do more damage stationary with all stacks.

Oops...thanks...I fixed that to be 70. I was wondering why 313 seemed low to me.

I will maybe play around and try a RP version later, just to see the results. I do suspect some day they will fix prowess and maybe even change wpn vers to be daggers/throwing daggers only. Good to have a backup.

harharharhar wrote on Feb 5^th, 2018 at 7:57pm:

very easy to swap 20/7/4 wisdom item before 10k

thats like 3 different items?


harharharhar wrote on Feb 5^th, 2018 at 7:57pm:

Prowess still having Prowess argument seems like nonsense to me. You get it 50% of the time, just like with 10k. Biggest difference is that you get all that ranged power for all of 10k (or most of it, the 20 from deadly rain is 20 of those seconds, which in LD is actually full time). So honestly, this is basically a wash.

Biggest difference is prowess is not only on during 10k but also on during cooldowns. Not close to wash. the fuk do you do on cooldowns? 20rp?

Rubbinns wrote on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 2:42am:

thats like 3 different items? Biggest difference is prowess is not only on during 10k but also on during cooldowns. Not close to wash. the fuk do you do on cooldowns? 20rp?

Wisdom swap is rough with new cooldowns no question, but you can replace 4 of that with a stance switch I guess, though on an RP build you probably just build for Wisdom instead of dumping it like with an MP build.

Regarding DPS:

Do you know how many long bullshit cut scenes there are between DPS?

Waiting at doors in Baba for your teammates?

Waiting for next wave to spawn?

Running around?

This game DOES NOT reward constant DPS, it rewards BURST.

How about in baba when the shambling mounds pop? BURST.

How about anytime a dangerous champ and a couple reapers pop? BURST.

I do not ascribe to the meta that constant DPS is somehow preferable to being able to burst hard when it's important to do so. Maybe that's a playstyle bias from playing Fury for so long, but I think it's important. I'd rather have all the doubleshot and MP/RP at once during 10k than have it spread out for only part of 10k, and then some not during 10k.

Not my meta president, bro.

Do you have spots where you dps for more then 30 seconds? How about for more then a minute? Each time you have to continue to DPS, you’re losing a lot of ground vs the melee set. When your boosts are up, you’re almost even.

That’s what he is saying

SpaceGoat wrote on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 12:43pm:

Do you have spots where you dps for more then 30 seconds? How about for more then a minute? Each time you have to continue to DPS, you’re losing a lot of ground vs the melee set. When your boosts are up, you’re almost even. That’s what he is saying

I understand what he's saying. It is exceedingly rare that I am DPS'ing for a full minute straight. Even if I was I have to take small breaks to:
-heal
-kite
-refresh shorter buffs (tensers, KTA macro, etc)
-reposition
-raise dead friends

This is a fact of playing the game, and it is also a playstyle preference. Over 11 years, I've found I perform better with the option to turn it up to 11 when I need to, to get dangerous things dead faster. The difference between trash and not trash in DDO is HUGE. Trash can be instakilled, level drained, pinned, whistled, etc. Red names can not be any'd of those. That's where the DPS actually matters, and it's a small amount of overall time spent attacking in DDO. For me, playstyle wise, that means burst is where it's at.

If I exclusively solo'd high reaper quests with giant HP bags that took 5 minutes to kill, I would wholeheartedly disagree with myself about burst. But that's not really how I spend any of my time in DDO.

Also for your scenario, while it's true that you do less damage between 10k's on an RP, build, you actually do MORE DPS during 10k on the RP build. You have 30 seconds of your highest possible RP/MP simultaneously during your highest Doubleshot (+100% from 10k).

With the MP build you get only 20 seconds (At most with perfect timing) of Prowess along with 10k doubleshot, or 66% of the time. Between 10k's you ONLY get 10 whole seconds of prowess due to cooldowns.

So the question is: Is marginal +10 seconds of Prowess without 10k on the MP build as valuable as the marginal +10 seconds of RP during 10k? Obviously the answer is no, because you're throwing MORE shurikens during 10k than in between 10k's (close to 30% more for most builds). You are actually maximizing boosts with an RP build as opposed to the MP build.

harharharhar wrote on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 1:34pm:

I understand what he's saying. It is exceedingly rare that I am DPS'ing for a full minute straight. Even if I was I have to take small breaks to: -heal -kite -refresh shorter buffs (tensers, KTA macro, etc) -reposition -raise dead friends This is a fact of playing the game, and it is also a playstyle preference. Over 11 years, I've found I perform better with the option to turn it up to 11 when I need to, to get dangerous things dead faster. The difference between trash and not trash in DDO is HUGE. Trash can be instakilled, level drained, pinned, whistled, etc. Red names can not be any'd of those. That's where the DPS actually matters, and it's a small amount of overall time spent attacking in DDO. For me, playstyle wise, that means burst is where it's at. If I exclusively solo'd high reaper quests with giant HP bags that took 5 minutes to kill, I would wholeheartedly disagree with myself about burst. But that's not really how I spend any of my time in DDO. Also for your scenario, while it's true that you do less damage between 10k's on an RP, build, you actually do MORE DPS during 10k on the RP build. You have 30 seconds of your highest possible RP/MP simultaneously during your highest Doubleshot (+100% from 10k). With the MP build you get only 20 seconds (At most with perfect timing) of Prowess along with 10k doubleshot, or 66% of the time. Between 10k's you ONLY get 10 whole seconds of prowess due to cooldowns. So the question is: Is marginal +10 seconds of Prowess without 10k on the MP build as valuable as the marginal +10 seconds of RP during 10k? Obviously the answer is no, because you're throwing MORE shurikens during 10k than in between 10k's (close to 30% more for most builds). You are actually maximizing boosts with an RP build as opposed to the MP build.

Now that you put it like that, you’re absolutely right. You do more dps during 10k stars, because you’re not fighting when 10k stars is offline. Because that’s the time to do other things.

SpaceGoat wrote on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 3:42pm:

because you’re not fighting when 10k stars is offline. Because that’s the time to do other things.

lol

harharharhar wrote on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 1:34pm:

MORE DPS during 10k on the RP build

no

Rubbinns wrote on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 4:35pm:

no

**assuming equal values for MP and RP**

yes.

harharharhar wrote on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 4:42pm:

**assuming equal values for MP and RP** yes.

How do you assume that???

The whole point of the build is that op is able to get MP higher then RP

SpaceGoat wrote on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 5:04pm:

The whole point of the build is that op is able to get MP higher then RP

Because with AF stacks and 80 Wisdom they they are equal.

With the difference in DPS during 10k discussed above, with AF stacks and 80 Wis, RP is HIGHER DPS TODAY during 10k.

If they fix prowess (probably when not if) they are equal without AF stacks. With AF stacks and 80 Wisdom, RP would be significantly more DPS.

harharharhar wrote on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 5:07pm:

Because with AF stacks and 80 Wisdom they they are equal. With the difference in DPS during 10k discussed above, with AF stacks and 80 Wis, RP is HIGHER DPS TODAY during 10k. If they fix prowess (probably when not if) they are equal without AF stacks. With AF stacks and 80 Wisdom, RP would be significantly more DPS.

You just agreed above that 1) 70 wisdom is more realistic 2) that you’re usually not standing still

DragonCrotch wrote on Feb 5^th, 2018 at 7:58pm:

291 moving and 346 not moving

376 RP with IAF not moving (ranger splits).
Every 30 seconds of a minute. 


DragonCrotch wrote on Feb 5^th, 2018 at 7:58pm:

253 and 353

353 fully mobile with IPS. every 10 seconds out of 20.

It has uptime twice during a fully mobile and IPS'd 10K. And then another prowess in that 30 second cooldown span before the next 10K activation.

  Unless you can lowkey pause the game (pm me if you can), cooldowns are a real thing. Off cooldown RP builds fall to around 180 RP when not MP/RP Boosting and being mobile. MP build is 40~ MP higher during the same state, and gets one use putting them at 140~ MP higher. There is the difference in the henshin ap isolated right there. still offers value when off 10k and when moving during a 10k. 

SpaceGoat wrote on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 5:16pm:

You just agreed above that 1) 70 wisdom is more realistic 2) that you’re usually not standing still

I agree 70 wisdom is more realistic for the MP build today, but I also said you can just build/gear for higher Wisdom on an RP build, which I stand by.

I am not normally standing still but you dont actually need to stand still to have AF stacks, you just need to stand still *sometimes* to refresh stacks

You're all fucking retarded.

Sergod wrote on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 8:19pm:

You're all fucking retarded.

be quiet and let the grown ups talk

I guarantee that nobody out kills or out dps me with their ranger fury burst versions (not even myself) or any monk RP versions, or any other thrower for that matter. Zerg thanks for posting this build btw, I love it, and everyone on my lowly server I am on loves me for using it :). It is great for running R10 content with some CC of course  :D

harharharhar wrote on Feb 6^th, 2018 at 6:15pm:

I agree 70 wisdom is more realistic for the MP build today, but I also said you can just build/gear for higher Wisdom on an RP build, which I stand by. I am not normally standing still but you dont actually need to stand still to have AF stacks, you just need to stand still *sometimes* to refresh stacks

You can build for anything, but there are trade offs. Either, ap build points, or gear.

Moving around freely > standing still.  Theorycraft has a place, but it's not where the rubber meets the road especially when trying to justify micromanagement of macros/item swaps.  Stop living in a god damn simulation and acknowledge pragmatism.

Carpone wrote on Feb 7^th, 2018 at 10:55am:

Moving around freely > standing still.  Theorycraft has a place, but it's not where the rubber meets the road especially when trying to justify micromanagement of macros/item swaps.  Stop living in a god damn simulation and acknowledge pragmatism.

Not to mention, I've yet to see damage lost during item swaps and activating the abilities then swapping back to the original items accounted for.

Since swap times are mostly static (only changes based on lag and how many items you're swapping), only the duration and the % of DPS increase really matter.  That makes it clear that the net return on macro'd swap abilities heavily favors abilities with longer durations and abilities that provide large percentages of DPS increase.

For example, if you assume a 10k DPS baseline and a 2s loss damage dealing due to swapping, the ability being swap macro'd would have to increase the DPS of the remaining 8 seconds by >25% to start coming out ahead.  Realistically, it would need to increase it by 30% or more to be worth bothering with.

Assuming a 30s ability with 2s swap loss and a base DPS of 10k, the ability would only need to provide a 10% increase to start coming out ahead.  However, if you lose 5-6s due to swapping multiple items for it, you're back to needing a 30% increase to break even.

Obviously those are just examples and actual in-game numbers will vary, but it's still worth considering.  Equally obvious is that this is only a concern if you're performing the swaps mid-fight rather than just prepping it right before the start.

It's the whole dojo kobold problem all over again.  Certain builds can post big, shiny numbers after prepping 10 different clickies, scrolls, boosts and activated abilities before the timer starts but that gives zero indication of a builds' DPS and potential outside of boost time.  It would be interesting to see what the results were if the testers aggregated 10 kobold kills back to back with no downtime in between and posted the combined time and average the DPS across that combined time.

Digimonk wrote on Feb 7^th, 2018 at 3:25pm:

Not to mention, I've yet to see damage lost during item swaps and activating the abilities then swapping back to the original items accounted for. Since swap times are mostly static (only changes based on lag and how many items you're swapping), only the duration and the % of DPS increase really matter.  That makes it clear that the net return on macro'd swap abilities heavily favors abilities with longer durations and abilities that provide large percentages of DPS increase. For example, if you assume a 10k DPS baseline and a 2s loss damage dealing due to swapping, the ability being swap macro'd would have to increase the DPS of the remaining 8 seconds by >25% to start coming out ahead.  Realistically, it would need to increase it by 30% or more to be worth bothering with. Assuming a 30s ability with 2s swap loss and a base DPS of 10k, the ability would only need to provide a 10% increase to start coming out ahead.  However, if you need lose 5-6s due to swapping multiple items for it, you're back to needing a 30% increase to break even. Obviously those are just examples and actual in-game numbers will vary, but it's still worth considering.  Equally obvious is that this is only a concern if you're performing the swaps mid-fight rather than just prepping it right before the start. It's the whole dojo kobold problem all over again.  Certain builds can post big, shiny numbers after prepping 10 different clickies, scrolls, boosts and activated abilities before the timer starts but that gives zero indication of a builds' DPS and potential outside of boost time.  It would be interesting to see what the results were if the testers aggregated 0 kobold kills back to back with no downtime in between and posted the combined time and average the DPS across that combined time.

You obviously haven’t been reading. There is no fighting when 10k is off timer. It’s a big time out.

SpaceGoat wrote on Feb 7^th, 2018 at 5:50pm:

You obviously haven’t been reading. There is no fighting when 10k is off timer. It’s a big time out.

Oh shit.  You're right.  I missed that.  Thanks for pointing it out.

It all makes sense now...

Gear pls :)

NightLord wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 4:01am:

Gear pls :)

in comments

Sergod wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 2:52pm:

in comments

This?


Sergod wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 9:46am:

executioner helm shroud pom neck echo ravenkind shadwhail cloak cutcord crumbings wom shroud boots aom shroud bracers nightfall ring perfect pinnacle disciple of dawn

That's like half a list, if you can parse it. And it gimps out for hp.

Shame...shame...shame...

5 Foot Step wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 10:29am:

This? That's like half a list, if you can parse it. And it gimps out for hp. Shame...shame...shame...

i sit on 2k hp in reaper.... "gimp hp"

You talk a big game for someone who has no noteworthy DDO achievements, has no videos posted to back up the talk, and is probably farming LH.

Still gonna say..nut up or shut up.

Sergod wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 10:57am:

i sit on 2k hp in reaper.... "gimp hp"

Yes, that is too much.

5 Foot Step wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 11:55am:

Yes, that is too much.

idk, I've seen serg in lh strahd duo vid, lh shroud duo vid, and a 13 minute r10 demon assault ( with a party composition that eschews the traditional r10 set ups of cc caster/healer/tank, and just fields 6 monks instead lol). The guy shreds shit and that hp pool lets him take a r10 hit and not die instantly.

2k is where you need to sit  in r10.... your lack of experience is showing

Sergod wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 9:46am:

executioner helm shroud pom neck echo ravenkind shadwhail cloak cutcord crumbings wom shroud boots aom shroud bracers nightfall ring perfect pinnacle disciple of dawn

After seeing this argument drag on, I decided that I wanted to test this for myself in game to see if I can get a resolution.  Currently I'm using Rubbins' first gear setup.  I am still missing the raid items, but i'm only coming in at around 650 base damage per hit.  I know the raid shuriken is powerful, but I can't imagine it being over twice as powerful, so now I'm busy collecting the few pieces of gear that were different between your layout and his.

What I've found so far is that you've omitted the goggle slot (I assume it's Van Richten's Spectacles).  It's safe to assume that the shuriken you use is Spite, even though it's never been specifically mentioned.  I also see you talk about a swap macro, so I assume you have a Shroud int/int/int item (kama?) that you swap before using Know the Angles.  Is that all correct without omitting any important buff / mechanics knowledge?

Edit: Oh... you also don't have any augments listed (or, I believe, your other two filigrees - which I assume are dexterity).  Those add up too!

This build is pretty straightforward to gear:

Prowess set for filigrees (5 piece)
Silent Avenger Set (3 Piece - Cloak, Belt, Armor)
Mists Set (5 Piece Gloves, Goggles, Ring/Pinnacle, Ring, trinket/echo raven)

With 12 equipment slots, you have 4 leftover to play with (neck, boots, helmet and bracers). You can use those for Shroud or Slavers set, or whatever.

The big base damage numbers claimed in this thread require ALL of the above gear (including the raid shuri and 5 piece prowess which in my opinion are the hardest to acquire, for me so far anyway).

To get that 1000+ first number on a red named you need:

All the gear and set bonuses above
10 stacks in blitz
MP action boost
20% stacked invuln
around 100 dex
KtA boosted with an int swap (anything works, I use a 15/7/2Festival Int cloak)

My max damage calcs put base damage with new shuri around 180-200 with 100 Dex, maxed out deadly, etc. With the 360'ish MP you get boosted with this build with a few mythic MP items, you're looking at about 850'ish base damage. Add 20% vulnerability and voila, ~1000'ish base damage for that first number.

There may be some damage sources I haven't taken into account, or exploits/overperformance issue I have not correctly identified in my calculations.

harharharhar wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 8:21pm:

This build is pretty straightforward to gear: Prowess set for filigrees (5 piece) Silent Avenger Set (3 Piece - Cloak, Belt, Armor) Mists Set (5 Piece Gloves, Goggles, Ring/Pinnacle, Ring, trinket/echo raven) With 12 equipment slots, you have 4 leftover to play with (neck, boots, helmet and bracers). You can use those for Shroud or Slavers set, or whatever. The big base damage numbers claimed in this thread require ALL of the above gear (including the raid shuri and 5 piece prowess which in my opinion are the hardest to acquire, for me so far anyway). To get that 1000+ first number on a red named you need: All the gear and set bonuses above 10 stacks in blitz RP action boost 20% stacked invuln around 100 dex KtA boosted with an int swap (anything works, I use a 15/7/2Festival Int cloak) My max damage calcs put base damage with new shuri around 180-200 with 100 Dex, maxed out deadly, etc. With the 360'ish MP you get boosted with this build with a few mythic MP items, you're looking at about 850'ish base damage. Add 20% vulnerability and voila, ~1000'ish base damage for that first number. There may be some damage sources I haven't taken into account, or exploits/overperformance issue I have not correctly identified in my calculations.

Yeah, I get most of that.  That's why I had all my assumptions listed already in that post.  I wanted it actually listed because a) other people may not know and b) I want to make absolutely sure I'm not missing something.

For the record, I've already got prowess, which I found fairly easy to acquire (then again, I have three players sharing all of their filigrees over twelve accounts).  I have blitz, boost, and KtA going pretty much at all times.  I'm not sure how to get invuln and only have 78 dex (no racial past lives, no yugo pot, no spectacles, and no non-prowess dex filigrees).  Having those would put me at 87, so I'm not sure where the other dex comes from.

Though, to be fair, all of this is probably for nothing.  I haven't gotten a SINGLE useful raid item (either drop OR roll) since DoJ was introduced).  :(

Edit: an hour after posting this I got a Duality.  The irony is so thick it would choke an astronaut in a space suit.

You can swap the int cloak. Yes van richten and spite.

did you even talked stars? i mean there's some space before Spite given it even drops for one init?

Before spite use Dawnbringer or Morninglord

Any changes to your build zerg?

Now that Silent Avenger set bonus no longer provides 100% fort bypass, probably will swap out Power Attack for Precision.

Carpone wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 10:58am:

Now that Silent Avenger set bonus no longer provides 100% fort bypass, probably will swap out Power Attack for Precision.

Yep. This.

This gear setup is missing MRR item. Unless you somehow place it in off hand. That would be possible on a LGS. That is the option, or dropping one shroud item for a loss of 5% hp (1.24/1.18).

Vaultaccount wrote on Feb 28^th, 2018 at 10:30am:

This gear setup is missing MRR item. Unless you somehow place it in off hand. That would be possible on a LGS. That is the option, or dropping one shroud item for a loss of 5% hp (1.24/1.18).

baba goggles

Rubbinns wrote on Feb 28^th, 2018 at 11:04am:

baba goggles

yeah didn't even notice he skipped goggles in the list


Sergod wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 9:46am:

executioner helm shroud pom neck echo ravenkind shadwhail cloak cutcord crumbings wom shroud boots aom shroud bracers nightfall ring perfect pinnacle disciple of dawn

Vaultaccount wrote on Feb 28^th, 2018 at 8:01pm:

yeah didn't even notice he skipped goggles in the list

and skipped spite. prolly one other item, too.

Rubbinns wrote on Feb 28^th, 2018 at 8:12pm:

and skipped spite. prolly one other item, too.

Have to spoon feed these fucks. Jesus.

offhand

harharharhar wrote on Mar 1^st, 2018 at 1:18am:

offhand

didnt list it cuz it was toee due to set bug. now use echo of sunsword

Sergod wrote on Mar 1^st, 2018 at 10:25am:

didnt list it cuz it was toee due to set bug. now use echo of sunsword

set bug being Silent Avenger? Or there was a bug with TOEE set?

harharharhar wrote on Mar 1^st, 2018 at 11:46am:

set bug being Silent Avenger? Or there was a bug with TOEE set?

silent was bypassing 2500% fort.

Sergod wrote on Feb 28^th, 2018 at 8:49pm:

Have to spoon feed these fucks. Jesus.

Wait wait wait.  You're saying Ravenloft raid gear is gud?  Heresy!

harharharhar wrote on Mar 1^st, 2018 at 11:46am:

set bug being Silent Avenger? Or there was a bug with TOEE set?

ability to wear SA set and TOEE set previously with cosmetics.

Sergod wrote on Mar 1^st, 2018 at 6:42pm:

ability to wear SA set and TOEE set previously with cosmetics.

jesus fucking christ how long could you do that for? Was the SA set you could get on a cosmetic or the TOEE set?

SA for the +2 profane

and the +1 w daggers

Anyone figure out a formula for the proc on Echo of the Sunsword yet?

5 Foot Step wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2018 at 11:59am:

Anyone figure out a formula for the proc on Echo of the Sunsword yet?

The damage part or the proc rate?

Digimonk wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2018 at 2:56pm:

The damage part or the proc rate?

Both preferably, so I can add the exact average damage added per attack to my DPS tables.

What is the to-hit number you are getting with this setup? And dex? I am finding myself in problems with to-hit.

was thinking either drop the trinket to craft a con15/acc23/insight acc11. Dump LGS bracers to use fallen hero, maintainning the set.

I'm trying to figure out why do you recommend people to farm 4k codex runes for an item that is giving roughly 120 hp if you sit at 2k, when slotting the bracers with insight con9 would give 106-142 hp and 12 PRR. I must really be missing something very bad?!?

By doing this you gain 34 to-hit, 2 con (15+9 over 20+2), loose eternal holy burst and improved deception. Net loss of 60 HP if you sit at 2k with 3 shroud pieces. Loose the stuff from trinket, but then don't have to grind for the trinket, and get 12 PRR.

OR

slaver bracers

false life 68 /acc28 /tendon slice14 /quality PRR 11 (or con4)

You actually gain 13 HP by doing that if you put con in the slavers, but loose 57 if you put PRR, wich is probably better. So gain 28 to-hit with this.

OR

Dump the Pinnacle for Ring of Prowess. By using the Fallen Hero bracers instead of shroud, you get hp back so basically hp is about the same. You get 13 PRR, 28 to-hit, but loose 2 deadly. But you gain 8 melee power, unless this melee power from ring of prowess is not stacking with something?

In any case, that's 4k codex runes saving, for a meaningless HP loss or even a gain.

For me the first choice is a given, because I don't feel like grinding for the echo, and this build already needs a lot of baba stuff. So unless if I drop it that's what I'm going to use. 34 points of ho-hit is going to solve my issues.

5 Foot Step wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2018 at 9:27am:

Both preferably, so I can add the exact average damage added per attack to my DPS tables.

Can't help much on the proc rate beyond telling you that it's nowhere near as generous as the one on Celestia.  It seems like 5%, maybe less given the low proc rate and how many shurikens a shuri puts out.

Here's the damage info:

https://i.imgur.com/ZfKhH6N.png

Oh, just in case you were thinking that for once, SSG didn't screw this up and make it buggy like half the other RL gear, don't worry, they did.

The blind portion on the AE does land on the mobs, but it doesn't put the blinded icon over their heads, so the only ways to tell if a mob is actually blinded by it is via the inspect window or actually seeing the mob run around randomly attacking whatever is nearby.

Digimonk wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2018 at 10:20pm:

Can't help much on the proc rate beyond telling you that it's nowhere near as generous as the one on Celestia.  It seems like 5%, maybe less given the low proc rate and how many shurikens a shuri puts out. Here's the damage info: Oh, just in case you were thinking that for once, SSG didn't screw this up and make it buggy like half the other RL gear, don't worry, they did. The blind portion on the AE does land on the mobs, but it doesn't put the blinded icon over their heads, so the only ways to tell if a mob is actually blinded by it is via the inspect window or actually seeing the mob run around randomly attacking whatever is nearby.

Thanks.

Would you say 10d20 sounds accurate? That's 105 on average.

Regarding the proc rate, 5% on 105 is a measly 5.25 per attack. If it is so low, it is weird that anyone would try it out and keep using it as the offhand on a shuri build. Celestia, Rebellion, TF, Lootgen would all be better options.

5 Foot Step wrote on Mar 4^th, 2018 at 9:45am:

Thanks. Would you say 10d20 sounds accurate? That's 105 on average. Regarding the proc rate, 5% on 105 is a measly 5.25 per attack. If it is so low, it is weird that anyone would try it out and keep using it as the offhand on a shuri build. Celestia, Rebellion, TF, Lootgen would all be better options.

No. I see 500.

Vaultaccount wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2018 at 8:47pm:

What is the to-hit number you are getting with this setup? And dex? I am finding myself in problems with to-hit.

150

Sergod wrote on Mar 4^th, 2018 at 10:43am:

No. I see 500.

On average? Or 500 is the highest you've seen?

5 Foot Step wrote on Mar 4^th, 2018 at 10:56am:

On average? Or 500 is the highest you've seen?

average. also its light damage so lots of RL mobs are weak to it. seen 1000-1500 plenty, and its aoe.

Is it scaling with MP/RP?

5 Foot Step wrote on Mar 4^th, 2018 at 2:53pm:

Is it scaling with MP/RP?

never tested. def not with spell power. a shiradi caster got same as me.

5% proc rate sound right?

500*.05=25 average damage per attack (per mob)

...which isn't terrible; however,...

Consider that when you're averaging 1000 sneak attack damage per attack, then increasing your deception uptime from ~83% to ~98% with a second stack of Improved Deception, averages you 150 more damage per attack when you have aggro.

Sergod wrote on Mar 4^th, 2018 at 10:45am:

150

Without accurary items? Can you do a breakdown of that? Anyways my melees have about that, 150, and they do granze.

(Combat): You attack Vargas Vallakovich. You roll a 5 (+154): you grazing hit!

This was on R4. At this point each point of to-hit is going to be about 1% more DPS (generzlizing granzing as 0, wich is not true).

5 Foot Step wrote on Mar 4^th, 2018 at 4:22pm:

5% proc rate sound right? 500*.05=25 average damage per attack (per mob) ...which isn't terrible; however,... Consider that when you're averaging 1000 sneak attack damage per attack, then increasing your deception uptime from ~83% to ~98% with a second stack of Improved Deception, averages you 150 more damage per attack when you have aggro.

Ya I don't give enough shits to go grind FoT. Helpless gives SA

Vaultaccount wrote on Mar 4^th, 2018 at 7:29pm:

Without accurary items? Can you do a breakdown of that? Anyways my melees have about that, 150, and they do granze. (Combat): You attack Vargas Vallakovich. You roll a 5 (+154): you grazing hit! This was on R4. At this point each point of to-hit is going to be about 1% more DPS (generzlizing granzing as 0, wich is not true).

Ya I don't see grazes on r10 and see up to 180 to hit. Idk. Guess you need to git gud?

Sergod wrote on Mar 5^th, 2018 at 8:18am:

Ya I don't see grazes on r10 and see up to 180 to hit. Idk. Guess you need to git gud?

Heh hard to belive you can get 180 to hit without items. You know your friend symbiot is slotting 39 accuracy and is getting about 150 to hit per his vids. Why don't you tell him to get good? Okay  this build has more dex, but that doesn't explain the difference. I don't get it why you want to pass an image here or something by just saying you got that value, maybe want to pass an image or something, but wathever

Vaultaccount wrote on Mar 5^th, 2018 at 9:43am:

Heh hard to belive you can get 180 to hit without items. You know your friend symbiot is slotting 39 accuracy and is getting about 150 to hit per his vids. Why don't you tell him to get good? Okay  this build has more dex, but that doesn't explain the difference. I don't get it why you want to pass an image here or something by just saying you got that value, maybe want to pass an image or something, but wathever

Symb will also say, and has many times, thrower to hit is silly high.

Vaultaccount wrote on Mar 5^th, 2018 at 9:43am:

Heh hard to belive you can get 180 to hit without items. You know your friend symbiot is slotting 39 accuracy and is getting about 150 to hit per his vids. Why don't you tell him to get good? Okay  this build has more dex, but that doesn't explain the difference. I don't get it why you want to pass an image here or something by just saying you got that value, maybe want to pass an image or something, but wathever

Shuriken get a massive random unexplained bonus to hit that doesn't seem to originate from any source of gear. Simply equipping spite on my shintao puts it at a higher to-hit than duality. It's dumb, but advantageous.

does this happen when you equip other shuriken?

I've never seen my to hit go over ~130-140 on my thrower, with accuracy gear at 30 (on character sheet).

Where are you seeing this unexplainable to hit value? To be honest however, I don't think I've seen a grazing hit yet in Ravenloft, but I used to get them back in the day on LE shroud.

This must be new'ish (in the last 12-18 months)

harharharhar wrote on Mar 5^th, 2018 at 4:41pm:

does this happen when you equip other shuriken? I've never seen my to hit go over ~130-140 on my thrower, with accuracy gear at 30 (on character sheet). Where are you seeing this unexplainable to hit value? To be honest however, I don't think I've seen a grazing hit yet in Ravenloft, but I used to get them back in the day on LE shroud. This must be new'ish (in the last 12-18 months)

Yup. Last time I actually played a shuriken build was when endgame was LE shroud too, and I didn't get any unexplanable buff to hit. I also played a fighter those days, and I missed crit confirmation on Harry with over +200. Poeple used to twist piercing clarity for that fight. Of course, now content doesn't have same AC as Harry, but this extra bonus with shuriken is probably new.

Maybe it's some bug related to vistani.

harharharhar wrote on Mar 5^th, 2018 at 4:41pm:

does this happen when you equip other shuriken? I've never seen my to hit go over ~130-140 on my thrower, with accuracy gear at 30 (on character sheet). Where are you seeing this unexplainable to hit value? To be honest however, I don't think I've seen a grazing hit yet in Ravenloft, but I used to get them back in the day on LE shroud. This must be new'ish (in the last 12-18 months)

Seeing my to hit on my die. Lowest I see is 150ish. Highest I've seen is like 187.

I am not getting this weird bonus on my melee monk when i change to shuri.

you do know that you get attack bonus for standing still right? I think maybe the AC is just low in RL. Haven't logged in for a couple days, I'll try to tease this out next time I do.

Sounds like y'all know what's up. GLHF. I'm not functionally retarded. I can read my die in bottom right. You actually get an attack penalty for moving, not a bonus for standing still...

U38: Vistani Weapon Versatility - During our DPS testing we took a look at how this ability impacts builds. We've come to the conclusion that, ultimately, this ability is detrimental to game balance and our ability to make adjustments differently among Melee and Ranged builds. We're planning to make it apply only to Daggers and Throwing Daggers, as it was in our earliest drafts of that ability.

Henshin Mystic - Second, Henshin Mystic currently gets 75 Melee Power in its tree. This is a lot more than other trees get, and it's pretty evenly distributed through its cores. We're of the opinion that this makes both Pure Monks and Monk splashes disproportionately strong (especially given the other benefits of being a Monk), and are planning to alter it from (10/10/10/10/10/25) to (3/3/3/3/3/15). The net effect on Henshin Mystic builds is that their DPS falls in line with most other Two Handed Fighting builds. (We're hoping to do a little further analysis of Two Handed Fighting in general after U38.)

Meh.

thank fucking God.

I can finally TR out of this bores me to tears so much I don't want to log in pure 20 monk thrower.

Wish I could say it was fun while it lasted but it was actually extremely boring.

Hey guys. I r nerf herd

Sergod wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 1:26pm:

Hey guys. I r nerf herd

it was the exploiti-est of builds while it lasted. I hope you enjoyed your 15 minutes, and I look forward to your next ranged/thrower build.

harharharhar wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 11:50am:

you do know that you get attack bonus for standing still right? I think maybe the AC is just low in RL. Haven't logged in for a couple days, I'll try to tease this out next time I do.

It's only 4 points last time I checked and yes, it's a penality for moving

harharharhar wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 1:12pm:

thank fucking God. I can finally TR out of this bores me to tears so much I don't want to log in pure 20 monk thrower. Wish I could say it was fun while it lasted but it was actually extremely boring.

now we need to get spite nerfed and fury nerfed. shav shouldnt be able to KO 500k in 6 seconds.

Ugh, how am I supposed to play again if they are nerfing monks?

harharharhar wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 1:43pm:

it was the exploiti-est of builds while it lasted. I hope you enjoyed your 15 minutes, and I look forward to your next ranged/thrower build.

ill play meta. well see where that lands. eso for now

Rubbinns wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 2:29pm:

now we need to get spite nerfed and fury nerfed. shav shouldnt be able to KO 500k in 6 seconds.

For the record I don't like that they did these nerfs this way. Also, MP based over RP based pure Monk is not that far ahead as 5Foot et al have shown. They should have just fixed Prowess to be back to 75 MP, and kept versatility since it wasn't providing much bang for the buck. I like the Henshin nerfs, it was WAY too much MP way too easily and forced a build decision which is never good. 

Spite doesn't look to be on the radar, and as you say Fury is still rad but you have to manage your radness, it's not just there all the time. I think it's actually fine.

I just really want some ED buffs so I can try some new builds out. And either thrower expertise feat, or more doubleshot for non-shuriken thrown weapons.

harharharhar wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 3:12pm:

I just really want some ED buffs so I can try some new builds out. And either thrower expertise feat, or more doubleshot for non-shuriken thrown weapons.

would have been dope years ago. they need an ED pass.

MP is far ahead of RP because it doesn't exist in a vacuum. You and FFS are trash players who don't actually play this game. You are comparing in a spreadsheet. MP build maintains this dmg constantly vs your vacuum your spread sheet lives in.

Even the devs understand this hence the nerf. Congrats you're even more fucking retarded than SSG. Truly an accomplishment.

My main has been a pure 20 monk largely following your build for about 6 weeks now. I am just missing Spite in my gear. I know exactly how your build plays.

Don't be a little cunt. Your build was literally always 1 tiny nerf (fixing prowess to give 75 MP instead of 100) from being dead nuts even with an RP build.

harharharhar wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 7:16pm:

My main has been a pure 20 monk largely following your build for about 6 weeks now. I am just missing Spite in my gear. I know exactly how your build plays. Don't be a little cunt. Your build was literally always 1 tiny nerf (fixing prowess to give 75 MP instead of 100) from being dead nuts even with an RP build.

No. rp builds would have to sit there, in one spot for 10 seconds, before they built up enough rp stacks to catch up to mp prowess.

harharharhar wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 7:16pm:

MYour build was literally always 1 tiny nerf (fixing prowess to give 75 MP instead of 100) from being dead nuts even with an RP build.

Negative ghost rider.

Rubbinns wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 7:23pm:

No. rp builds would have to sit there, in one spot for 10 seconds, before they built up enough rp stacks to catch up to mp prowess.

+10-14 AP

harharharhar wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 7:25pm:

+10-14 AP

who cares. one spot. stationary. cant even ips those numbers.

Rubbinns wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 7:28pm:

who cares. one spot. stationary. cant even ips those numbers.

So if you lose 25MP from the nerf to Prowess I stipulated, you start DOWN 15MP (Deadly Rain + 10k = ~90RP, vs Prowess at 75MP). AF stacks only make that delta worse.

Henshin was good for 20-35 depending on AP spend, which means MP would have been 5-20MP ahead with only a small nerf to Prowess to it's stated value of 75 MP.

This is close enough, that with those 14 AP spent getting RP in Harper (9RP specifically) that this further reduces down to -4 to 9MP ahead all in with IPS. 

I rest my case.

This is all BEFORE AF stacks, which puts you WELL AHEAD OF THE MP BUILD FOR RED NAMES. Do you even build bro?

harharharhar wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 8:25pm:

So if you lose 25MP from the nerf to Prowess I stipulated, you start DOWN 15MP (Deadly Rain + 10k = ~90RP, vs Prowess at 75MP). AF stacks only make that delta worse. Henshin was good for 20-35 depending on AP spend, which means MP would have been 5-20MP ahead with only a small nerf to Prowess to it's stated value of 75 MP. This is close enough, that with those 14 AP spent getting RP in Harper (9RP specifically) that this further reduces down to -4 to 9MP ahead all in with IPS.  I rest my case. This is all BEFORE AF stacks, which puts you WELL AHEAD OF THE MP BUILD FOR RED NAMES. Do you even build bro?

are you counting deadly rain and longshadow versus just grand prowess buff of 75, alone, without its filigree bonuses? are you counting that itemization cost of having to include 20 wis, 7 i wis, 4 q wis? you missed a lot in your mumble math above

lets see a screenshot or video of this RP dps

Sergod wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 12:46am:

lets see a screenshot or video of this RP dps

Not doubting the DPS of melee power build, but I'd love to see a video of the MP build too, because there isn't any made by a guy fully itemized. I don't care about screenshots, they don't show how the build performs.

Carpone wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 1:02pm:

Henshin Mystic - Second, Henshin Mystic currently gets 75 Melee Power in its tree. This is a lot more than other trees get, and it's pretty evenly distributed through its cores. We're of the opinion that this makes both Pure Monks and Monk splashes disproportionately strong (especially given the other benefits of being a Monk), and are planning to alter it from (10/10/10/10/10/25) to (3/3/3/3/3/15). The net effect on Henshin Mystic builds is that their DPS falls in line with most other Two Handed Fighting builds. (We're hoping to do a little further analysis of Two Handed Fighting in general after U38.)

Nerfed from orbit. Feel bad for anyone actually trying to swing a staff.


Rubbinns wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 7:28pm:

who cares. one spot. stationary. cant even ips those numbers.

Incorrect.


Sergod wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 12:46am:

lets see a screenshot or video of this RP dps

Just try it, you'll like it.

Sergod wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 12:46am:

lets see a screenshot or video of this RP dps

Sadgod making demands over there.

When you're done exploiting and want to learn how to play this game within the intended parameters, and then you have some achievements, let me know. Until then, you're very good at playing this game with cheating/exploiting advantages. Considering you've never even played a thrower that wasn't massively exploited (you literally asked for builds 3 months ago here), you have literally no fucking idea what you're talking about when it comes to playing non-exploited thrower builds. You've never really achieved shit in this game on a thrower, because you've never really played one.

I can't speak for 5Foot, but I mostly think you're a hilarious johnny come lately who doesn't actually know how to play a thrower in a balanced end game. You just know how to stack up early update exploits and hide behind your smarter builder friend (Symbiiont-1x! or w/e) and post videos of you two cheating.

Let me know when you do anything with a proper character after the loopholes and sploits are fixed. I'll even run with you then so you can learn the ropes.

I know a bunch of 4chans in here are going to come out screaming this post makes is some sort of evidence I have something against exploits and I'm some SSG rat, but none of that is true. I love them. But I don't fucking brag and post achievements on the forums when I use them like a little cunt. I just quietly enjoy them and STFU. That's when I even know about them, which is like 50% of the time at best.

I did not know until it was fixed that:
-you could cosmetic set bonuses for TOEE Set
-avenger set was giving 650000% fort bypass
-that you could get pinnacle effects when you aren't supposed to
-that prowess was giving extra MP (in the beginning, I learned soon after)

5 Foot Step wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 10:04am:

Nerfed from orbit. Feel bad for anyone actually trying to swing a staff.

You should have already felt bad for them before that was posted.  Now you should just laugh at them.

5 Foot Step wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 10:04am:

Incorrect.

nigga what? very correct. your wisdom breakdown is dubious. involves 5 wisdom from reaper caster tree?

your rp breakdown includes 23 rp from reaper adversary tree and 26 mythic gear bonus.


Ranged Power:
30 epic
18 LD
2 WF
24 reaper ap
26 Mythic
39 10k avg
8 item
2 harper
2 artifact
10 profane
70 blitz
45 archer's focus
40 filigree
2 inherent
=318 RP

youre also including AF in your rp math.... lololololl

if youre including all that then the mp build eclipses the rp build by like 60+ MP.  and the rp build absolutely HAS to be stationary for at least 10+ seconds. the mp build was just superior in every single way. i hit blitz, hit a boost, bam= higher mp than your jumping through hoops rp. oh, also, IPS btw. mobile btw. no decaying af stacks btw.

also, you have to wear that shitty necklace for 20 wisdom.


Vaultaccount wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 5:43am:

Not doubting the DPS of melee power build, but I'd love to see a video of the MP build too, because there isn't any made by a guy fully itemized. I don't care about screenshots, they don't show how the build performs.

there should be vids of him n symb duoing lh shroud and lh strahd. also an r10 demon assault with 6 monks and a completion time of 13 minutes.



harharharhar wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 11:57am:

I can't speak for 5Foot, but I mostly think you're a hilarious johnny come lately who doesn't actually know how to play a thrower in a balanced end game. You just know how to stack up early update exploits and hide behind your smarter builder friend (Symbiiont-1x! or w/e) and post videos of you two cheating.

waaaaaaa. they used items. waaaaaaaaa ;D

harharharhar wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 11:57am:

Sadgod making demands over there. When you're done exploiting and want to learn how to play this game within the intended parameters, and then you have some achievements, let me know. Until then, you're very good at playing this game with cheating/exploiting advantages. Considering you've never even played a thrower that wasn't massively exploited (you literally asked for builds 3 months ago here), you have literally no fucking idea what you're talking about when it comes to playing non-exploited thrower builds. You've never really achieved shit in this game on a thrower, because you've never really played one. I can't speak for 5Foot, but I mostly think you're a hilarious johnny come lately who doesn't actually know how to play a thrower in a balanced end game. You just know how to stack up early update exploits and hide behind your smarter builder friend (Symbiiont-1x! or w/e) and post videos of you two cheating. Let me know when you do anything with a proper character after the loopholes and sploits are fixed. I'll even run with you then so you can learn the ropes. I know a bunch of 4chans in here are going to come out screaming this post makes is some sort of evidence I have something against exploits and I'm some SSG rat, but none of that is true. I love them. But I don't fucking brag and post achievements on the forums when I use them like a little cunt. I just quietly enjoy them and STFU. That's when I even know about them, which is like 50% of the time at best. I did not know until it was fixed that: -you could cosmetic set bonuses for TOEE Set -avenger set was giving 650000% fort bypass -that you could get pinnacle effects when you aren't supposed to -that prowess was giving extra MP (in the beginning, I learned soon after)

If you are only referencing the very vague Visanti Weapon Versatility it never specified only dagger/throwing dagger.  Did it seem intended for that? Probably.  But Id venture that if you really are an experienced thrower, you probably used fury of the wild at one time. Until recently (not sure? ive been gone so long), fury of the wild was considered vague as well working with ranged when it explicitly said in the old description "melee" vorpal.

Im not defending or shaming anyone (this is the Vault  ;) ), I just think double standards are in order if all you are referencing is using weapon versatility.

Rubbinns wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 1:44pm:

there should be vids of him n symb duoing lh shroud and lh strahd. also an r10 demon assault with 6 monks and a completion time of 13 minutes.

There isn't the ranged POV vid

Teth wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 1:58pm:

If you are only referencing the very vague Visanti Weapon Versatility it never specified only dagger/throwing dagger.  Did it seem intended for that? Probably.  But Id venture that if you really are an experienced thrower, you probably used fury of the wild at one time. Until recently (not sure? ive been gone so long), fury of the wild was considered vague as well working with ranged when it explicitly said in the old description "melee" vorpal. Im not defending or shaming anyone (this is the Vault  ;) ), I just think double standards are in order if all you are referencing is using weapon versatility.

teth, har is retarded. the dude is so fully buitthurt because serg just waltzed in and made a better thrower. har has spent the last 50 pages of multiple threads getting his shit pushed in and hiding behind 5foot's posts.

Teth wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 1:58pm:

If you are only referencing the very vague Visanti Weapon Versatility it never specified only dagger/throwing dagger.  Did it seem intended for that? Probably.  But Id venture that if you really are an experienced thrower, you probably used fury of the wild at one time. Until recently (not sure? ive been gone so long), fury of the wild was considered vague as well working with ranged when it explicitly said in the old description "melee" vorpal. Im not defending or shaming anyone (this is the Vault  ;) ), I just think double standards are in order if all you are referencing is using weapon versatility.

referencing all the things listed in my post:

ToEE set inclusion through cosmetic bug
Bugged Silent Avenger set bonus for Fort bypass (crucial for high crit power and SA damage build like this)
Prowess Set giving more MP than it was supposed on Action Boost
Pinnacle knockdown on trash with huge amounts of extra damage on helpless mobs, even when not wearing Pinnacle

and then finally yes all of these things being enabled by Vistani versatility being literally the only vistani knife throwing ability to work with Shuriken.

I do not think using Versatility while it worked with shuriken in any way exploiting or not legitimate. I am arguing however the only build this person ever played that was a thrower benefitted extraordinarily in a multivariate way from multiple bugs/overperforming abilities.

Some of those things have to do with Vistani MP to ranged damage, some with buggy equipment. It was a cohesive and well thought out build that leveraged all of those things. However it is inappropriate for this person to grandstand and hurl insults and question the experience/achievements of other people on these forums about thrower builds when he has literally only ever played one with extreme use of bugs to accomplish his small number of achievements.

If you think that's comparable to people using Fury for ranged builds for 6 years until the devs finally stated it's cool, that's your call man.

Rubbinns wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 2:06pm:

teth, har is retarded. the dude is so fully buitthurt because serg just waltzed in and made a better thrower. har has spent the last 50 pages of multiple threads getting his shit pushed in and hiding behind 5foot's posts.

I know you're sad and projecting from having your shit pushed in for saga exploiting by SSG, but lashing out at me won't help you.

And I spent at least half of those pages praising this build. I'll never be a fanboi like you, and that's ok.

harharharhar wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 2:29pm:

I know you're sad and projecting from having your shit pushed in for saga exploiting by SSG, but lashing out at me won't help you. And I spent at least half of those pages praising this build. I'll never be a fanboi like you, and that's ok.

you have been sucking 5's dick for so long that you should get a fucking fidget spinner and put it on his shaft so you dont get bored.


i have been perma banned once already. you really think any number of bans is going to phase me, mah niggah?

Rubbinns wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 2:36pm:

you have been sucking 5's dick for so long that you should get a fucking fidget spinner and put it on his shaft so you dont get bored. i have been perma banned once already. you really think any number of bans is going to phase me, mah niggah?

I've spent most of my time on the vault FIGHTING with 5Foot over a number of things, mostly pure builds and LD vs Fury. Not sure where you've been for the last 4 years. Probably on reddit or 4chan or Discord using racially charged language to try and get attention and generally acting like a fucking clown.

harharharhar wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 2:38pm:

I've spent most of my time on the vault FIGHTING with 5Foot over a number of things, mostly pure builds and LD vs Fury. Not sure where you've been for the last 4 years. Probably on reddit or 4chan or Discord using racially charged language to try and get attention and generally acting like a fucking clown.

oh, you need that fidget spinner? i gotchu, bruh

http://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.roosterteeth.com/uploads/images/c3557144-437f-4b1a-81ee-57fe27cd445c/original/24363-1495758988135-thumbnail.jpg

harharharhar wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 2:28pm:

referencing all the things listed in my post: ToEE set inclusion through cosmetic bug Bugged Silent Avenger set bonus for Fort bypass (crucial for high crit power and SA damage build like this) Prowess Set giving more MP than it was supposed on Action Boost Pinnacle knockdown on trash with huge amounts of extra damage on helpless mobs, even when not wearing Pinnacle and then finally yes all of these things being enabled by Vistani versatility being literally the only vistani knife throwing ability to work with Shuriken. I do not think using Versatility while it worked with shuriken in any way exploiting or not legitimate. I am arguing however the only build this person ever played that was a thrower benefitted extraordinarily in a multivariate way from multiple bugs/overperforming abilities. Some of those things have to do with Vistani MP to ranged damage, some with buggy equipment. It was a cohesive and well thought out build that leveraged all of those things. However it is inappropriate for this person to grandstand and hurl insults and question the experience/achievements of other people on these forums about thrower builds when he has literally only ever played one with extreme use of bugs to accomplish his small number of achievements. If you think that's comparable to people using Fury for ranged builds for 6 years until the devs finally stated it's cool, that's your call man.

I never used pinnacle bug, and pinnacle doesn't give helpless. If you see me making things helpless, it's from Pin.

PS I'm not banned so want to try throwing exploiter insults at me again?

Sergod wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 2:50pm:

PS I'm not banned so want to try throwing exploiter insults at me again?

I could give a shit about saga exploiting I'm talking about set bonuses and cosmetics.

Rubbinns wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 1:44pm:

youre also including AF in your rp math.... lololololl

You know, you're right. I don't stack Archer's Focus for trash. Shit dies too quickly. AF is for high value targets. Yes, I stack it on bosses, yes I still move, yes it sticks around for a while when I resume pwning trash.


Sergod wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 2:48pm:

pinnacle doesn't give helpless

Shows what you know.

5 Foot Step wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 3:17pm:

You know, you're right. I don't stack Archer's Focus for trash. Shit dies too quickly. AF is for high value targets. Yes, I stack it on bosses, yes I still move, yes it sticks around for a while when I resume pwning trash.

nah. stacks deplete too fast. mp build pisses all over rp build's nipples 

All in all I'd say this was another pretty successful Vault build thread. 

Bravo, everyone. See you next time!

5 Foot Step wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 3:17pm:

You know, you're right. I don't stack Archer's Focus for trash. Shit dies too quickly. AF is for high value targets. Yes, I stack it on bosses, yes I still move, yes it sticks around for a while when I resume pwning trash. Shows what you know.

Just logged in and tested AGAIN. Doesn't give helpless. Shows that I know your head is so far up your ass that it is restricting the oxygen to your brain. Fucking dimwit.

Sergod wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 10:35pm:

Just logged in and tested AGAIN. Doesn't give helpless.

Nubbinns and I say it does. Maybe you're doing it wrong?


Rubbinns wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 11:53am:

I think the first set up might be better overall? set up 2 gains adherent set 20prr+mrr, 10rp/mp, 20 hamp pinnacle helpless +2 I Con set up 1 loses adherent - 20prr/mrr, -10 rp/mp -2 I Con no helpless cc from pinnacle

5 Foot Step wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 10:22am:

Nubbinns and I say it does. Maybe you're doing it wrong?

nubbins also sucks me off nightly.

Sergod wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 6:58pm:

nubbins also sucks me off nightly.

i seen your dick pics. that finger dick aint big enuff for me. bbc of gtfo