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Zaodan
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Feedback on stun-based build
Nov 18th, 2010 at 3:22pm
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Please give feedback on ways to improve this, as I threw it together quick, but I am not generally really good at making builds. Smiley

note: it includes no gear, and no buffs. i.e. its really the raw build, although I did add some basic gear in spots to get an idea of gear.

Thanks.
==============


Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(12 Fighter \ 6 Monk \ 2 Rogue)
Hit Points: 364
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 16
Will: 12

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             17                    27 (36=+9 items)
Dexterity            15                    18 (24=+6 item)
Constitution         12                    16 (22=+6 item)
Intelligence         11                    13
Wisdom               14                    18 (24=+6 item)
Charisma              6                     6

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7

                 Feat/Enhancement
                  Modified Skills
Skills             (Level 20)
Balance                 16
Disable Device          25 (+3 int item +15 skill +3 boost= +46)
Search                  27 (+3 int item +15 skill +3 boost= +48)

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
Enhancement: Improved Search I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics II


Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II


Level 8 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Kensei Unarmed Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 10 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II


Level 11 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) III


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Unarmed Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) IV


Level 14 (Fighter)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Defense
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III


Level 16 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Enhancement: Kensei Unarmed Mastery II
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 17 (Monk)


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 19 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Shintao Monk I


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III

Stunning Blow DC: 10 + 13 + 2(kensai) +4(Ftr Strat 4) +2(Dwarf tact 2) = 31 DC, +10 item = 41 DC
Stunning Fist DC: 10 + 3 + 7 = 20 DC, +10 item = 30 DC
« Last Edit: Nov 18th, 2010 at 3:26pm by Zaodan »  
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Inkblack
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Re: Feedback on stun-based build
Reply #1 - Nov 18th, 2010 at 3:45pm
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I've played two pure 20 fighters to endgame as a stunning build.  The dwarf TWF was much better than the THF, so that part works. 

I question the monk splash though.  The reason is the DC of the stun.  Is that the only reason for the splash, or were you picking up something else with it?  I was about 80% vs ToD orthons with a DC in the mid 40's.  Sure, I could stun trash but that was the difference between 2 swings and 4 to 5.  Stunning high hp mobs was where the build shined -- and that required a huge investment in a high DC.

Ink
  
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Zaodan
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Re: Feedback on stun-based build
Reply #2 - Nov 18th, 2010 at 4:10pm
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Inkblack wrote on Nov 18th, 2010 at 3:45pm:
I've played two pure 20 fighters to endgame as a stunning build.  The dwarf TWF was much better than the THF, so that part works. 

I question the monk splash though.  The reason is the DC of the stun.  Is that the only reason for the splash, or were you picking up something else with it?  I was about 80% vs ToD orthons with a DC in the mid 40's.  Sure, I could stun trash but that was the difference between 2 swings and 4 to 5.  Stunning high hp mobs was where the build shined -- and that required a huge investment in a high DC.

Ink


Well, I was thinking that having a 2nd-chance stun if the first missed, plus if its "tainted" that jade prison thingy from Shintao.  And Rogue was just... I don't know, cause I needed F 12 and Monk 6, so had 2 leftover. Smiley lol
  
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Re: Feedback on stun-based build
Reply #3 - Nov 18th, 2010 at 4:25pm
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Zaodan wrote on Nov 18th, 2010 at 4:10pm:
Well, I was thinking that having a 2nd-chance stun if the first missed, plus if its "tainted" that jade prison thingy from Shintao.  And Rogue was just... I don't know, cause I needed F 12 and Monk 6, so had 2 leftover. Smiley lol


If you want monk love, I would go pure class.
  
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Re: Feedback on stun-based build
Reply #4 - Nov 19th, 2010 at 9:35am
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The best stunning build? Shintao Light  monk.

You can get both of the DCs up into the high 30's low 40's.

You also get a range stun which I believe is will based.  So, that is three stuns.  One is str based, one is wisdom based, and the ranged is charisma based.  Two fort save, one will save.  Pretty nice.

Kensai fighter can't quit match up to that, no offense to those of you that masturbate to your fighters day in and day out.
« Last Edit: Nov 20th, 2010 at 1:01am by Epoch »  
OnePercenter wrote on May 15th, 2014 at 9:41am:
I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.  #epochsfamiliarFTW

Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 2:09am:
It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity.
Even against donuts.
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Re: Feedback on stun-based build
Reply #5 - Nov 19th, 2010 at 9:39am
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Epoch wrote on Nov 19th, 2010 at 9:35am:
You also get a range stun which I believe is will based. 



I think it's Charisma actually.
  
Nevynn wrote on Nov 18th, 2010 at 11:38pm:
Anybody coming to this board expecting anything more sophisticated than a dick joke had better get used to disappointment.


Calvet wrote on Oct 20th, 2011 at 12:18pm:
I just got that impression after you spent 13 pages calling out eladiun for being an interwebs bully when anyone who's been posting on here already knew that.  I mean, he's proud of it and hardly tries to hide that at all.


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Re: Feedback on stun-based build
Reply #6 - Nov 19th, 2010 at 10:15am
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Eladiun wrote on Nov 19th, 2010 at 9:39am:
I think it's Charisma actually.


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Epoch
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Re: Feedback on stun-based build
Reply #7 - Nov 19th, 2010 at 2:10pm
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Eladiun wrote on Nov 19th, 2010 at 9:39am:
I think it's Charisma actually.


Charisma save?

That is what I meant by will based, a will based save.

Unless you mean the stat modifier that boosts it, it might be charisma.  I just logged in to check it out, then haven't touched the game in the last 2 weeks or so.

If it is, let me know, I will alter my original post.
« Last Edit: Nov 19th, 2010 at 2:10pm by Epoch »  
OnePercenter wrote on May 15th, 2014 at 9:41am:
I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.  #epochsfamiliarFTW

Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 2:09am:
It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity.
Even against donuts.
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Re: Feedback on stun-based build
Reply #8 - Nov 19th, 2010 at 2:11pm
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Epoch wrote on Nov 19th, 2010 at 2:10pm:
Unless you mean the stat modifier that boosts it, it might be charisma.  I just logged in to check it out, then haven't touched the game in the last 2 weeks or so.

If it is, let me know, I will alter my original post.


Yes, that's what I mean I misread what you were saying.

Shintao Monk: Kukan-Do

You lock gazes with an enemy, stunning them for a short period of time on a failed Will save. (DC = 10 + Charisma Modifier + your monk level.) Any effects that modify your Stunning Blow or Stunning Fist DC's also affect this ability. Sightless creatures are unaffected by this ability.
« Last Edit: Nov 19th, 2010 at 2:14pm by Eladiun »  
Nevynn wrote on Nov 18th, 2010 at 11:38pm:
Anybody coming to this board expecting anything more sophisticated than a dick joke had better get used to disappointment.


Calvet wrote on Oct 20th, 2011 at 12:18pm:
I just got that impression after you spent 13 pages calling out eladiun for being an interwebs bully when anyone who's been posting on here already knew that.  I mean, he's proud of it and hardly tries to hide that at all.


Quote:
Eladiun is an awful person
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Zaodan
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Re: Feedback on stun-based build
Reply #9 - Nov 19th, 2010 at 3:18pm
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I tried a pure monk build, and here is what I get.
(again, I'm not necessarily good with builds here)

==========

Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(20 Monk)

                 Feat/Enhancement
Abilities         Modified Stats
(32 Point)          (Level 20)
Strength                23 (32 = +9 items)
Dexterity               17 (24 = +8 items)
Constitution            18 (24 = +6 item)
Intelligence             8
Wisdom                  20 (28 = +8 items)
Charisma                 6 (10 = +6 item)

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7

                 Feat/Enhancement
                  Modified Skills
Skills             (Level 20)
Balance                 36
Concentration           42
Tumble                  30

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness

Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons

Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Precision
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist

Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons

Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Level 20 (Monk)
Enhancement: Monk Serenity
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics I
Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics II
Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics III
Enhancement: Lifting the Veil
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey II
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey III
Enhancement: The Receptive Earth
Enhancement: Restoring the Balance
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Shintao Monk I
Enhancement: Shintao Monk II
Enhancement: Shintao Monk III
Enhancement: Rise of the Phoenix
Enhancement: Difficulty at the Beginning
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Grandmaster of the Sun
Enhancement: Master of Bonfires
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Balance I
Enhancement: Improved Balance II
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II


Stunning Blow: 10 +11(str) + 3(dwarf) +10(item)= 34 DC
Stunning Fist: 10 +10(1/2 lvl) + 9(wis) +3(dwarf) +10(item)= 42 DC
Kukan Do: 10 + 0(cha) + 20(lvl) +3(dwarf) +10(item)= 40 DC
  
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Tyrsis
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Re: Feedback on stun-based build
Reply #10 - Nov 19th, 2010 at 6:36pm
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My WF kensai stunner

Stun DC
10 base
10 weapon
12 (34 str conservatively)
3 kensai
7 enhancements
42 base
4 Kensai powersurge
2 madstoned
2 raged
1 Exc str
49 without trying real hard

This guy's a TR of a fighter, so a 50 DC is very attainable with kensai (WF or dwarf)  add in 10% doublestrike and 80% offhand attacks for additional stunning blow chances.  Other viable variants have slashing for DPS(dwarf axe or khopesh)

Teersis 
Level 20 Chaotic Good Warforged Male
(20 Fighter)
Hit Points: 372
Spell Points: 0

BAB: 20/20/25/3030
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 12
Will: 8

              Starting    Feat/Enhancement
Abilities    Base Stats    Modified Stats
(34 Point)    (Level 1)      (Level 20)
Strength           18                28
Dexterity          15                17
Constitution       18                21
Intelligence        8                10
Wisdom              6                 8
Charisma            6                 6

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7

              Starting      Feat/Enhancement
             Base Skills  Modified Skills
Skills       (Level 1)      (Level 20)
Balance            2              7
Bluff              -2             1
Concentration      4              8
Diplomacy          -2             1
Disable Device     n/a            n/a
Haggle             -2             -2
Heal               -2             -1
Hide               2              1
Intimidate         -2             1
Jump               7              29
Listen             -2             -1
Move Silently      2              1
Open Lock          n/a            n/a
Perform            n/a            n/a
Repair             -1             0
Search             -1             0
Spot               -2             -0.5
Swim               4              5
Tumble             2.5            1.5
Use Magic Device   n/a            n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Mithral Body
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons

Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons

Level 5 (Fighter)

Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Iron Will
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow

Level 7 (Fighter)

Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons

Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons

Level 11 (Fighter)

Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 13 (Fighter)

Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Luck of Heroes

Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw

Level 17 (Fighter)

Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (SSelected) Lightning Reflexes
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons

Level 19 (Fighter)

Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity
Enhancement: Kensei Warhammer Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Warhammer Mastery II
Enhancement: Kensei Warhammer Mastery III
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei III
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) III
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Sunder) I
Enhancement: Fighter Warhammer Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Warhammer Specialization II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack II
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack III
Enhancement: Warforged Tactics I
Enhancement: Warforged Tactics II
Enhancement: Warforged Tactics III
  
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Re: Feedback on stun-based build
Reply #11 - Nov 20th, 2010 at 4:45am
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Tyrsis wrote on Nov 19th, 2010 at 6:36pm:
My WF kensai stunner

Stun DC
10 base
10 weapon
12 (34 str conservatively)
3 kensai
7 enhancements
42 base
4 Kensai powersurge
2 madstoned
2 raged
1 Exc str
49 without trying real hard


I was going to point out Kensei based tactical builds generally have some of the highest DC's ... on a tactical is hit without any real effort towards it... The shear factor being they the feating and because they run off str which is the highest buffable stat in the game. 34 str fighter is a conservative one ... many a level 20 kensei stand at liesure at 38 to 40 before kensei boosts or buff.
« Last Edit: Nov 20th, 2010 at 4:48am by Emili »  
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Bonheur dans la vie, c'est d'aimer et d'etre aimé et quand s'en va, l'espoir fuit.
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zed
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Re: Feedback on stun-based build
Reply #12 - Nov 22nd, 2010 at 4:59pm
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Just as another data point, I came up with this build which has a standing stunning blow DC of 41, that gets up to 52 with normal buffs.

At a high level, it is a Half-Orc 12 ftr/6 barb/2 rogue.  The thing I like most about it is that the majority of the stun power comes from high strength.  So, your DPS will be higher (especially in an auto-crit environment) than a standard WF/dwarf that gets it's high DC from Tactics.

/shrug just something to consider.
  
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Re: Feedback on stun-based build
Reply #13 - Nov 23rd, 2010 at 11:09am
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zed wrote on Nov 22nd, 2010 at 4:59pm:
Just as another data point, I came up with this build which has a standing stunning blow DC of 41, that gets up to 52 with normal buffs.

At a high level, it is a Half-Orc 12 ftr/6 barb/2 rogue.  The thing I like most about it is that the majority of the stun power comes from high strength.  So, your DPS will be higher (especially in an auto-crit environment) than a standard WF/dwarf that gets it's high DC from Tactics.

/shrug just something to consider.


You could replace Rogue with Monk, and swap over to using Handwraps.  Makes it easier gear-wise since you only need 1 set of good wraps.  Still get evasion, an extra toughness or two, and slightly better saves.   You could gear out with Icy Raiments, et al for AC if needed, but I expect AC isn't a concern for this build anyway, so who cares if you wear some robes instead of armor, right? Smiley
  
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Re: Feedback on stun-based build
Reply #14 - Nov 23rd, 2010 at 1:34pm
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I agree it would be cool (and probably better), but the alignment restrictions prevent you from combining monk and barb.
  
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Re: Feedback on stun-based build
Reply #15 - Nov 23rd, 2010 at 2:53pm
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zed wrote on Nov 23rd, 2010 at 1:34pm:
I agree it would be cool (and probably better), but the alignment restrictions prevent you from combining monk and barb. 


Whoops, spaced that one.  Um, yeah, I knew that!
/Look, a blimp!
  
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Re: Feedback on stun-based build
Reply #16 - Nov 27th, 2010 at 3:36am
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Zaodan wrote on Nov 23rd, 2010 at 11:09am:
You could replace Rogue with Monk, and swap over to using Handwraps.  Makes it easier gear-wise since you only need 1 set of good wraps.  Still get evasion, an extra toughness or two, and slightly better saves.   You could gear out with Icy Raiments, et al for AC if needed, but I expect AC isn't a concern for this build anyway, so who cares if you wear some robes instead of armor, right? Smiley


would be similar to my stafftact build
quarterstaff wielding 12/6/2 Fighter/Paladin/Monk
gets a small boost with monk stance
quite high saves compared to pure fighter
planned barbarian past life feat for rage ability for further bonus
paladin for bladesworn and LoH + some bonus damage via smites
  
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Re: Feedback on stun-based build
Reply #17 - Jun 28th, 2017 at 6:11pm
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No dumbass, they're mediocre. Most of the people have about 6 int in real life and chew rather than playing.
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Re: Feedback on stun-based build
Reply #18 - Jun 29th, 2017 at 5:10pm
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